Re: [Hornlist] Re: Lead pipes for Conn 8D
Kendall brings up a great point which is a pet peeve of mine, namely the small end of the leadpipe. I have seen such inconsistent treatments of this part of the pipe from manufacturers that it is scary. I tried a new model horn from a major manufacturer at an IHS Symposium several years back. There were three of that model on the table, one with cut bell and two with fixed bell.?They all played differently, and the technician from the factory told me they were still trying to figure out why the cut bell horn played so much better than the other two. It only took me a couple seconds to figure that one out, as I noted my mouthpiece going into the pipe to three completely different, noticeably different, depths. Not one of those horns had the same pipe on as the others. Of course they were all going to play differently! I don't understand how they can treat such a critically important part of the instrument as the mouthpipe so cavalierly. That's one of the important differences between a custom-made professional horn and a factory-made professional horn - attention to critical details. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:28 pm Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Lead pipes for Conn 8D I'm curious to know what your criteria is for judging a leadpipe? What would you consider that makes a certain pipe better, not just different? I make pipes that have a better scale and respond quicker, especially on the Bb horn, on a Conn 8D, any Conn 8D. Would folks consider that better or just different? You mention a good original one. Walter, myself and others knew early on that Conn leadpipes, as with most makes, were inconsistent. I remember trying a dozen, new, Elkhart 8D's at a time back in the '60's and all would play differently. There would be maybe 1 or 2 good ones in the batch. I went to the factory once in Elkhart to pick out a new pipe for a 300,000 series I had that had been damaged in a car wreck, played 40 pipes that day and they were all different. I never did find one that made that horn play as well as the original one did before it was totaled. Walter figured out a few years later that this was due to sloppy cutting of the small end. I don't know if anyone before Walter had even thought about that. He was, and I am, very conscious of the quality control of our pipes. Our designs are unique and there are many 8D's, as well as other makes, with Lawson pipes on them which are used daily by all sorts of players who are happy with their results. I don't think those folks would have switched pipes if they did not think the change was for the better. I also have spectrum analysis data from computer testing that shows how various changes in leadpipe tapers affect the instrument, both in terms of intonation and response. I know you didn't call any names, but I couldn't pass up the chance here for some free advertising! Thanks! Kendall Betts Steven Mumford [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Anyone who is getting a new leadpipe for their 8D, please send the old original one to me!!! I won't call any names, but I've had quite a few of the custom pipes come through here and I haven't seen any yet that were better than a good original one. Different, yes. Better, no. - Steve Mumford **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/brassartsunlim%40aol.com More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp000503 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Lead pipes for Conn 8D
This discussion of pipes has been enlightening. I've just purchased a 700k series 8D, which has a Lawson leadpipe, from Dennis Houghton's shop in Texas. Coincidentally, while I was trying this horn, a friend asked me to render a second opinion on a new horn (Kruspe-wrap) he had on trial. While the 8d has no bad notes, everything slotting extremely well and in tune (the low range is a little difficult to open up, however), this other horn (which was not inexpensive) had real problems above the staff, and the written A up there was very, very slippery. Have to think, in light of this discussion, this is likely due to a deficient leadpipe. Fred On 11/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm curious to know what your criteria is for judging a leadpipe? What would you consider that makes a certain pipe better, not just different? I make pipes that have a better scale and respond quicker, especially on the Bb horn, on a Conn 8D, any Conn 8D. Would folks consider that better or just different? You mention a good original one. Walter, myself and others knew early on that Conn leadpipes, as with most makes, were inconsistent. I remember trying a dozen, new, Elkhart 8D's at a time back in the '60's and all would play differently. There would be maybe 1 or 2 good ones in the batch. I went to the factory once in Elkhart to pick out a new pipe for a 300,000 series I had that had been damaged in a car wreck, played 40 pipes that day and they were all different. I never did find one that made that horn play as well as the original one did before it was totaled. Walter figured out a few years later that this was due to sloppy cutting of the small end. I don't know if anyone before Walter had even thought about that. He was, and I am, very conscious of the quality control of our pipes. Our designs are unique and there are many 8D's, as well as other makes, with Lawson pipes on them which are used daily by all sorts of players who are happy with their results. I don't think those folks would have switched pipes if they did not think the change was for the better. I also have spectrum analysis data from computer testing that shows how various changes in leadpipe tapers affect the instrument, both in terms of intonation and response. I know you didn't call any names, but I couldn't pass up the chance here for some free advertising! Thanks! Kendall Betts Steven Mumford [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ) wrote: Anyone who is getting a new leadpipe for their 8D, please send the old original one to me!!! I won't call any names, but I've had quite a few of the custom pipes come through here and I haven't seen any yet that were better than a good original one. Different, yes. Better, no. - Steve Mumford **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/fbaucom%40gmail.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Lead pipes for Conn 8D
I'm curious to know what your criteria is for judging a leadpipe? What would you consider that makes a certain pipe better, not just different? I make pipes that have a better scale and respond quicker, especially on the Bb horn, on a Conn 8D, any Conn 8D. Would folks consider that better or just different? You mention a good original one. Walter, myself and others knew early on that Conn leadpipes, as with most makes, were inconsistent. I remember trying a dozen, new, Elkhart 8D's at a time back in the '60's and all would play differently. There would be maybe 1 or 2 good ones in the batch. I went to the factory once in Elkhart to pick out a new pipe for a 300,000 series I had that had been damaged in a car wreck, played 40 pipes that day and they were all different. I never did find one that made that horn play as well as the original one did before it was totaled. Walter figured out a few years later that this was due to sloppy cutting of the small end. I don't know if anyone before Walter had even thought about that. He was, and I am, very conscious of the quality control of our pipes. Our designs are unique and there are many 8D's, as well as other makes, with Lawson pipes on them which are used daily by all sorts of players who are happy with their results. I don't think those folks would have switched pipes if they did not think the change was for the better. I also have spectrum analysis data from computer testing that shows how various changes in leadpipe tapers affect the instrument, both in terms of intonation and response. I know you didn't call any names, but I couldn't pass up the chance here for some free advertising! Thanks! Kendall Betts Steven Mumford [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Anyone who is getting a new leadpipe for their 8D, please send the old original one to me!!! I won't call any names, but I've had quite a few of the custom pipes come through here and I haven't seen any yet that were better than a good original one. Different, yes. Better, no. - Steve Mumford **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Lead pipes for Conn 8D
Anyone who is getting a new leadpipe for their 8D, please send the old original one to me!!! I won't call any names, but I've had quite a few of the custom pipes come through here and I haven't seen any yet that were better than a good original one. Different, yes. Better, no. - Steve Mumford ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Lead pipes for Conn 8D
Have you tried a Halstead pipe? Plays about the same as the stock pipe, but easier to control in the high register (especially on high piano playing), it can hold a bigger forte without getting 'razzy'(thicker brass) and the compromise is that the lower register is a bit more stuffy, but not much. He told me he developed this pipe because he felt other after market pipes for the 8D were too extreme, he wanted to keep the sound and feel of the 8D but still improve the high-range without sacrificing too much of the lower register. I honestly believe he did just that. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Steven Mumford [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Lead pipes for Conn 8D Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:47:40 -0800 (PST) Anyone who is getting a new leadpipe for their 8D, please send the old original one to me!!! I won't call any names, but I've had quite a few of the custom pipes come through here and I haven't seen any yet that were better than a good original one. Different, yes. Better, no. - Steve Mumford ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/tim_vg%40techemail.com _ Are you a Techie? Get Your Free Tech Email Address Now! Visit http://www.TechEmail.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
