RE: [Hornlist] Triple Horn Case
I just bought the latest design MB case...the one that looks like an overgrown bowling bag. Sorry that I don't remember the model number. It fits my XL Paxman triple perfectly. The Yamaha is smaller, so should go in quite easily, although the one potential issue is the set of slides in the back which have been cleverly designed for easy access, but might cause the horn to sit differently than my Pax, which is quite flat on the back side. I still think it will be OK. Orlando R. Pandolfi -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew B. Smith Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:49 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Triple Horn Case Hello, all. It seems as though I will soon be acquiring a Yamaha triple horn. My question is this: what case would be suitable for this instrument? I currently have a Bonna MB3 (with the zip on/off bell section) that holds an 8D. I'm thinking that this case would not have sufficient depth, seeing as how the 8D barely fits. So, I'm looking for suggestions. Thanks! Matthew B. Smith ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pandolfi%40deerfield.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Triple Horn Case
Hello, all. It seems as though I will soon be acquiring a Yamaha triple horn. My question is this: what case would be suitable for this instrument? I currently have a Bonna MB3 (with the zip on/off bell section) that holds an 8D. I'm thinking that this case would not have sufficient depth, seeing as how the 8D barely fits. So, I'm looking for suggestions. Thanks! Matthew B. Smith ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Triple horn or descant?
Just a short question for players of both kinds. I recenly bought an Alex 303 triple horn F/Bb/highF,after selling my Holton H-200 descantBb/highF.I don't use the low F part of the triple ,knowing that the high F horn is going to be used for the particular part I playing.Basically,I'm looking for another Bb/high F ,to trade or sell, to a player interested. The horn is listed om IHS online ,and hornplayer.net.Has anyone experienced this situation?,and what conclusion did you come to?I still play my 8D,and get around on it just fine. Steve Maniscola -- Support the Arts,Kiss a Musician!,& Hug a Drummer, cause he never gets a chance to dance! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Triple horn
This is the first post to specify the bell size of the instrument. People who try my Paxman 42M are amazed at how well the Bb and F alt blend, but I suspect the original good deal I got on my horn was because people didn't even bother to try out an M bell horn, especially ten-twenty years ago in the US. Is the switch to Eb tuning an adaptation to improve the the blending of the two horns? Also, I've found with my M bell horn, the effort needed to play either side is not very different, but accuracy is much better on the F alt. Once I've practiced the part to familiarity, it no longer matters which horn I use, so I go with the Bb unless the entrance proves precariously subtle. For Brandenburg style playing, though, th F alt horn gives the clear, ligh sound I want, so I use it extensively, and balance the Bb sound to it. Perhaps a designer, or several, can set forth some of the reasoning they've used designing descants and triples, so their potential customers can develop correct expectations. -Original Message- From: Jerry J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 16:14:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Triple horn > from: "Nelson R. Lawson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I have recently decided to purchase a triple horn and would like to ask > the list what are the decided advantages of either the F alto as > opposed to the Eb alto. I have a Paxman 40L descant which had an extender made for the hi-F tuning slide that puts the high side in Eb. The former owner had that made while waiting for his E.Schmid so he could get used to the Eb fingerings before his new horn arrived. The bottom line is that it really helps this particular horn to be in Eb instead of F. Its really quite amazing how much it changes things. The timbre of the Eb side is much closer to the Bb side. When set up for hi-F, I would only use the high side as sort of an emergency curiousity stuck onto a fine Bb horn. When set for Eb, its much more usable. The fingerings can be challenging at first, but its not too hard to get over with a little practice. I'm primarily using an Alex 104 at the moment, but if I ever go back to the descant it'll be with the Eb slide. Good luck, Jerry in the Woods ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/billbamberg%40aol.com Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Triple horn (unrelated question)
Howdy all, I've been playing on a Yamaha 667 for over 15 years (let's pretend I started at 5). My brillant horn instructor at the time thought I wasn't a big enough player to handle anything else. Needless to say, he was my least favorite... Anyway, the 667 has some interesting characteristics. I don't remember having tuning issues, but I also tune any horn I play sharp. Ask me why later. My 667 doesn't like to play certain "patterns", and seems almost moody. Watch out if you are a strong player - I have litterally "blown" my horn apart! In fact, I just had all the sodering re-done a couple of months ago, and right before my last solo performance, the bugger started shaking apart again! You will usually see me with some form of tape/band-aid/string holding my horn together. But I love her, and I'm extremely resistant to find a new horn. I almost went into withdrawl when she was in the shop the last time. Don't let the reputation of being a "smaller" horn fool you - the 667 can hold it's own against any 8D! Amanda -- Original message -- From: "Steve Freides" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > C.J.L. Wolf wrote: > > > A little while back I went to a horn shop and tried all the > > different models. I usually play a Yamaha 664, which is a > > fairly large-belled Kruspe wrap. > > > > I found that I disliked all the Geyer horns bar none: their > > intonation seemed funny. Out of the Kruspes, I got on OK with > > some of the Holtons and an 8D. But the only horns I would > > have swapped for my own (if it didn't have sentimental value) > > were the Yamaha 668's and the triples. > -snip- > > I just thought it curious that I was so attached to the horn > > I played. Do other people feel equally attached to different > > wraps? And how long do you really have to play a horn in > > order to get comfortable with its intonation. If I was on the > > market for a new horn, I imagine I could dismiss a lot of > > very good models just because they're not what I'm used to. > > I switched about 10 days ago to my first Geyer wrap horn, a Yamaha 667. > I've only been playing for just under 2 years now, and I bought it thinking > "it will be good for me, even if it's hard to get used to" because I wanted > a smaller horn than the Yamaha 666 I had. The decision to move to a smaller > horn was very much correct for me, but the difference in playing a Geyer > wrap was completely unexpected. > > My reaction was and is very much like yours - I had a hell of a time getting > the thing to play in tune. The more I get used to it, the more comfortable > I'm becoming with it, and I'm able to play pretty well in tune most of the > time now. If I've adapted most of the way in 10 days, I think I'll be well > used to it in another few weeks. > > I couldn't tell you why it's different, or whether the difference is > anything other than the wrap, but the 666 and 667 are horns of approximately > the same price level from the same company, and I'm using the same > mouthpiece on them both, so the wrap _may_ explain a good deal of why it > feels so different. > > For me, the Geyer-wrapped 667 feels like it slots much less than the 666 > (which is the immediate predecessor to the 668 many people are familiar > with). That may or may not be the right explanation for why I played so out > of tune on it when I first got it, but at the 10 day mark, I'm coming to > appreciate how easy it is to make the intonation exactly what I need. > > Again, I'm new enough at this that my observations must be taken with a > grain of salt as my playing is still changing pretty quickly, but I just > wanted to chime in and say that my reaction to my first Geyer wrap was very > much like yours, and I do think you might find it worth your time to play > one for a few weeks to see how you really feel about it. > > -S- > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/teetertotter12%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Triple horn (unrelated question)
C.J.L. Wolf wrote: > A little while back I went to a horn shop and tried all the > different models. I usually play a Yamaha 664, which is a > fairly large-belled Kruspe wrap. > > I found that I disliked all the Geyer horns bar none: their > intonation seemed funny. Out of the Kruspes, I got on OK with > some of the Holtons and an 8D. But the only horns I would > have swapped for my own (if it didn't have sentimental value) > were the Yamaha 668's and the triples. -snip- > I just thought it curious that I was so attached to the horn > I played. Do other people feel equally attached to different > wraps? And how long do you really have to play a horn in > order to get comfortable with its intonation. If I was on the > market for a new horn, I imagine I could dismiss a lot of > very good models just because they're not what I'm used to. I switched about 10 days ago to my first Geyer wrap horn, a Yamaha 667. I've only been playing for just under 2 years now, and I bought it thinking "it will be good for me, even if it's hard to get used to" because I wanted a smaller horn than the Yamaha 666 I had. The decision to move to a smaller horn was very much correct for me, but the difference in playing a Geyer wrap was completely unexpected. My reaction was and is very much like yours - I had a hell of a time getting the thing to play in tune. The more I get used to it, the more comfortable I'm becoming with it, and I'm able to play pretty well in tune most of the time now. If I've adapted most of the way in 10 days, I think I'll be well used to it in another few weeks. I couldn't tell you why it's different, or whether the difference is anything other than the wrap, but the 666 and 667 are horns of approximately the same price level from the same company, and I'm using the same mouthpiece on them both, so the wrap _may_ explain a good deal of why it feels so different. For me, the Geyer-wrapped 667 feels like it slots much less than the 666 (which is the immediate predecessor to the 668 many people are familiar with). That may or may not be the right explanation for why I played so out of tune on it when I first got it, but at the 10 day mark, I'm coming to appreciate how easy it is to make the intonation exactly what I need. Again, I'm new enough at this that my observations must be taken with a grain of salt as my playing is still changing pretty quickly, but I just wanted to chime in and say that my reaction to my first Geyer wrap was very much like yours, and I do think you might find it worth your time to play one for a few weeks to see how you really feel about it. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Triple horn
This reminds me of another question I had about the triple horn - sorry to flood the list. Would people play delicate music (e.g. brandenburg) on a triple horn, or is it better to play on a descant? My understanding had always been that triples were meant for security, so a horn that was meant to have a big sound in the low register would presumably also be built for power in the high register. But the models that I tried were actually a little wan when in high-F. Kit On Sat, 24 Jun 2006, Jerry J wrote: from: "Nelson R. Lawson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have recently decided to purchase a triple horn and would like to ask the list what are the decided advantages of either the F alto as opposed to the Eb alto. I have a Paxman 40L descant which had an extender made for the hi-F tuning slide that puts the high side in Eb. The former owner had that made while waiting for his E.Schmid so he could get used to the Eb fingerings before his new horn arrived. The bottom line is that it really helps this particular horn to be in Eb instead of F. Its really quite amazing how much it changes things. The timbre of the Eb side is much closer to the Bb side. When set up for hi-F, I would only use the high side as sort of an emergency curiousity stuck onto a fine Bb horn. When set for Eb, its much more usable. The fingerings can be challenging at first, but its not too hard to get over with a little practice. I'm primarily using an Alex 104 at the moment, but if I ever go back to the descant it'll be with the Eb slide. Good luck, Jerry in the Woods ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/c.j.l.wolf%40newcastle.ac.uk ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Triple horn
from: "Nelson R. Lawson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have recently decided to purchase a triple horn and would like to ask the list what are the decided advantages of either the F alto as opposed to the Eb alto. I have a Paxman 40L descant which had an extender made for the hi-F tuning slide that puts the high side in Eb. The former owner had that made while waiting for his E.Schmid so he could get used to the Eb fingerings before his new horn arrived. The bottom line is that it really helps this particular horn to be in Eb instead of F. Its really quite amazing how much it changes things. The timbre of the Eb side is much closer to the Bb side. When set up for hi-F, I would only use the high side as sort of an emergency curiousity stuck onto a fine Bb horn. When set for Eb, its much more usable. The fingerings can be challenging at first, but its not too hard to get over with a little practice. I'm primarily using an Alex 104 at the moment, but if I ever go back to the descant it'll be with the Eb slide. Good luck, Jerry in the Woods ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Triple horn
I also own a Paxman and a Schmid triple. My Schmid is a F alto horn (as is the Paxman) . without a doubt the F alto side on the Schmid is usable further down into the range then is the same sie on the Paxman. I think this is a design difference not an Eb alto vs. Falto difference. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Triple horn
I gather that the big advantage of F over Eb is that you don't have to learn the transposed Eb fingering playing F music. Cheers, Paul Mansur On Saturday, June 24, 2006, at 11:40 AM, Nelson R. Lawson wrote: I have recently decided to purchase a triple horn and would like to ask the list what are the decided advantages of either the F alto as opposed to the Eb alto. Thanks, Nelson R. Lawson ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Triple horn
I'm sort of fascinated how one can decide to spend such major money on an instrument without a clear idea of what their expectations might be. Your question implies resources available that make price no object. For some reason, most horns you'll encounter in the US that have an F alt tuning are large bell instruments. An F alt section on a medium bell instrument allows seamless switching between Bb and F alt. A large throated F alt is really a mellophone. If you've been trained to use the Bb horn for 'agile' playing in the low register, an F attachment combined with a few 'long' fingerings add the true F horn sound without excessive weight. I suspect the use of an Eb descant is an attempt to improve the blended sound of a large throat descant. -Original Message- From: Nelson R. Lawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:40:32 -0400 Subject: [Hornlist] Triple horn I have recently decided to purchase a triple horn and would like to ask the list what are the decided advantages of either the F alto as opposed to the Eb alto. Thanks, Nelson R. Lawson ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/billbamberg%40aol.com Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Triple horn (unrelated question)
howdy- I'd like to share a little about the Geyer/Kruspe thing from my own experience. I have always played an 8D, and for most of my serious playing years much preferred the large-throat/bell Kruspe wrap playing feel and sound. I am sort-of in the market for a new horn though, and the last year Ive been trying many different things. Just like you, I always balked at both the sound and feel of every Geyer at first. I also noticed that there were a lot of pitch 'issues' when trying Geyers. However, at one point last year (I think over spring break) I burrowed an old Merewether Paxman, Yamaha 667 (decent but not great medium Geyer), a Ricco Kuhn 283, and a E. Schmid (there were a lot of people around on break! and my university owns a plethora of Horns for this reason). Instead of just picking one of these up for a minute, noodling and then dismissing it, I tried to start with one horn, do my full warm-up, and then totally re-tune the instrument, then play it for a few days. I was actually quite embarrassed how long it took me to get some of them just in tune with themselves. I blame this not on the horn, as I was eventually able to get all of these in tune with themselves very well, but on tendencies I've developed on my horn, and with my lack of knowledge. I would not recommend bringing and old Merewether Paxman to a Horn ensemble rehearsal without figuring out for sure which tuning slide is which, I made a total idiot of myself sitting in on first and being so out of tune it was painful, then pushing the slides the wrong way! Anyway, there are lots of notes on my horn which are a little sharp or a little low, and I've tried very hard to eliminate this from my playing. I had much more success with the other horns after a few days of just trying to place the notes where they fall. I actually am convinced that (this might have to do with how much smaller the slots are on every Geyer I've ever tried compared to my 8D) most every other horn I've played puts the notes closer to where they belong, and don't need as much bending. To respond to Kit's question, I do think playing one horn for years alone will, if you have a decent ear and are trying, definitely teach you to favor certain notes up or down. I don't think this "warping" is bad either, but be careful when trying other horns not to blame the horn at first. I also wanted to say, that as I tried these other horns, after playing one specific one at a time I grew to like each one very much after a few days; with both individual and various ensemble playing. I also noticed that after a few days people kept complimenting my sound as being much more focused and projecting better. Not just brass players, my WWQintet colleges and conductors too. I don't mean to group all Geyers together, a 667 is a very different animal than a Lewis which is different from a Hill or a Ricco Kuhn..., but I do think though that Geyers feel very different, and quite weird to people like me who have played large Kruspe's their whole playing time. I -and I am sure most of you can too- can hear within a few notes if a horn is a Geyer or not, even with one person playing a variety of horns. I do think that because they feel and play different, and have a different sound, a lot of Kruspe people (myself included, at least in the past) dismiss other horns way to fast. They really fly at some things, and, as I mentioned before, after a while I think overall the intonation on a well built Geyer is much more secure on than on large Kruspe horns. But that is not to say that one cannot play a 8D in tune. I have heard that from various "pros" out there, and I think that is just ridiculous. With a good EAR, good hand placement, careful tuning, and awareness of the instruments tendencies a 8D or other large Kruspe can certainly be played in tune! (sorry for the rant) Anyway, sorry to go on an on, I am fascinated with trying different horns and the large variety of playing characteristic and sounds one can get with different instruments. I think it would be a very educational experience for anyone to burrow a totally different horn and after a good warm-up and re-tuning, play it for a few days in as many different venues as possible. A lot can be learned about how your own horn plays, including what it does well and what is does poorly. I really have changed my perception of a good horn sound after playing some other horns (and a lot of natural horn too) and can appreciate a lot more players and their sounds having tried their equipment. Anyway, happy practicing, Dave Meichle Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn
[Hornlist] Triple horn (unrelated question)
A little while back I went to a horn shop and tried all the different models. I usually play a Yamaha 664, which is a fairly large-belled Kruspe wrap. I found that I disliked all the Geyer horns bar none: their intonation seemed funny. Out of the Kruspes, I got on OK with some of the Holtons and an 8D. But the only horns I would have swapped for my own (if it didn't have sentimental value) were the Yamaha 668's and the triples. If memory serves, they were a Paxman triple and perhaps an Alex. They both had a very similar wrap. Is there any reason the triples & Kruspes 'felt' similar? I'm sure I was being premature in dismissing the Geyers, as they seemed to be in the majority. I assume I'd get used to the intonation if I played one for long enough (or perhaps my sense of pitch has been warped by my own horn). I just thought it curious that I was so attached to the horn I played. Do other people feel equally attached to different wraps? And how long do you really have to play a horn in order to get comfortable with its intonation. If I was on the market for a new horn, I imagine I could dismiss a lot of very good models just because they're not what I'm used to. Kit On Sat, 24 Jun 2006, Nelson R. Lawson wrote: I have recently decided to purchase a triple horn and would like to ask the list what are the decided advantages of either the F alto as opposed to the Eb alto. Thanks, Nelson R. Lawson ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/c.j.l.wolf%40newcastle.ac.uk ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Triple horn
I have both. Both are great horns. I chose the high Eb on my E. Schmid because I simply preferred the tone over the same horn w/ high F, perhaps due to the longer leadpipe. My Paxman has a high F and also works great. I can play lower on the high Eb than I can on the high F. but I think that is simply a specific attribute of the particular horn. The Paxman has a MUCH better Bb side. The fingerings for Eb are not difficult at all, as one can use Bb fingerings on the Eb side except top line horn F sharp and top space G, which need to be 2and3 and 1and2 respectively (at least on my horn). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nelson R. Lawson Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 11:41 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Triple horn I have recently decided to purchase a triple horn and would like to ask the list what are the decided advantages of either the F alto as opposed to the Eb alto. Thanks, Nelson R. Lawson ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/pandolfi%40deerfield.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Triple horn
I have recently decided to purchase a triple horn and would like to ask the list what are the decided advantages of either the F alto as opposed to the Eb alto. Thanks, Nelson R. Lawson ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
