Re: [Hornlist] pitch, temperament and intonation
From: "Steve Burian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> An F# in the key of D major might be as much as 30 cents higher than the Gb in the key of Eb minor. A good thought, Steve, but you stated it exactly backwards. A just major third is about 386 cents and a just monor third is about 316 cents. But this assumes that in each case the tonic is true to equal temperament and that each of the other ptches is tuned to tonic in just intonation. What is key here is that that same F# would change again for keys other than D Major. It seems logical that based on 12 Major and 12 minor keys (not counting enharmonics), there are no fewer than 24 different F sharps and another 24 G flats. Of course that seemed too easy to figure out, so I must be forgetting something. I have read that some early keyboards had as many as 32 divisions (individual keys) to the octave! I think any such extreme early keyoards were only theoretical constructs, but actual keyboards were built with one or two keys per octave split into two versions of the pitch. Harry Partch did construct microtonal keyboards in the last century (see google or wikipedia) and of course nowadays precise control of intonation is achievable with computers. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] pitch, temperament and intonation
This is all perfect, but far too confusing most people, who struggle from note to note, cracking more notes than written or splitting every note ever second time (a bit exaggerated but true !) or worse splitting three notes out of two written notes. The more important thing is it, to give the e.g. F# another character or another feeling than Gb, or another colour or expression. That is the point. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Burian Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 6:33 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] pitch, temperament and intonation I think that to say F# is not the same as Gb (or pick your own favorite black key on the keyboard) can be expanded further. An F# in the key of D major might be as much as 30 cents higher than the Gb in the key of Eb minor. But this assumes that in each case the tonic is true to equal temperament and that each of the other ptches is tuned to tonic in just intonation. What is key here is that that same F# would change again for keys other than D Major. It seems logical that based on 12 Major and 12 minor keys (not counting enharmonics), there are no fewer than 24 different F sharps and another 24 G flats. Of course that seemed too easy to figure out, so I must be forgetting something. I have read that some early keyboards had as many as 32 divisions (individual keys) to the octave! In my ear training classes I like to do an exercise related to this topic. I ask the class to sing a single pitch and while they hold it I play the remaining notes from different chords, on the piano. For example they sing G. I then play C and E to make them tune the fifth of a C Major triad (2 cents sharp). Then while they continue to hold G, I play root third and fifth of an A7 chord and they can instantly feel their pitch being pulled down (up to 29 cents, which might be mathematically correct, but hard for our modern tempered ears to accept). The equal temperament of the piano makes this an imperfect excercise, but it does work to illustrate my point. Fascinating topic, but playing is tune is much more fun (and less work) that talking about it. Just my thoughts. SB _ More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TX T_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] pitch, temperament and intonation
I think that to say F# is not the same as Gb (or pick your own favorite black key on the keyboard) can be expanded further. An F# in the key of D major might be as much as 30 cents higher than the Gb in the key of Eb minor. But this assumes that in each case the tonic is true to equal temperament and that each of the other ptches is tuned to tonic in just intonation. What is key here is that that same F# would change again for keys other than D Major. It seems logical that based on 12 Major and 12 minor keys (not counting enharmonics), there are no fewer than 24 different F sharps and another 24 G flats. Of course that seemed too easy to figure out, so I must be forgetting something. I have read that some early keyboards had as many as 32 divisions (individual keys) to the octave! In my ear training classes I like to do an exercise related to this topic. I ask the class to sing a single pitch and while they hold it I play the remaining notes from different chords, on the piano. For example they sing G. I then play C and E to make them tune the fifth of a C Major triad (2 cents sharp). Then while they continue to hold G, I play root third and fifth of an A7 chord and they can instantly feel their pitch being pulled down (up to 29 cents, which might be mathematically correct, but hard for our modern tempered ears to accept). The equal temperament of the piano makes this an imperfect excercise, but it does work to illustrate my point. Fascinating topic, but playing is tune is much more fun (and less work) that talking about it. Just my thoughts. SB _ More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
