[Hornlist] Valve question

2006-11-01 Thread Mathew James

Hey list.  I'm looking to pick some of your brains today.
I have begun to develop a interest In horn design (features more so than
entire wraps and such) such as valve mechanisms, and such.  And also mute
design, all cool stuff.  I have been digging through the Internet and my
library for books on the ideas and such, have learned a fair amount but am
wondering if anyone can direct me to some concrete sources.
Many Thanks
--
Mathew James
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RE: [Hornlist] Valve question

2006-11-01 Thread hans
Dear Matthew, just reading books about that, is not the
right method to get into that stuff. One has to learn first,
how the mechanical functions work with different material,
how the opening  closing of the valves work, what influx
the details will have on the sound column if valves go into
action, how different alloy behave in contact each other,
about lubrification, how the action is performed, etc.etc.  

All this could be read together, but without practica, it
will remain just a fumjbling around until a result or no
result will surface by chance or not.

Good sources with measurement tables, ankles, material
specifications etc. can be found in the books by Schramm:
Blechblasinstrumente  Noedl: Metallblasinstrumentenbau ,
but all in German language.

To understand all the basics, I would recommend you to stay
with a master for several months  learn as much as you can
then, to understand the basics of metal-wind-instrument
fabrication. But after that, the real task will begin. And I
promise you, you will not get rich by just two things: valve
design  mute design. It is a lousy business  can be done
only as a side job.


===
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mathew James
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 6:15 PM
To: horn list
Subject: [Hornlist] Valve question

Hey list.  I'm looking to pick some of your brains today.
I have begun to develop a interest In horn design (features
more so than entire wraps and such) such as valve
mechanisms, and such.  And also mute design, all cool stuff.
I have been digging through the Internet and my library for
books on the ideas and such, have learned a fair amount but
am wondering if anyone can direct me to some concrete
sources.
Many Thanks
--
Mathew James
___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
unsubscribe or set options at
http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.
de

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[Hornlist] Valve Question - BEWARE!

2006-11-01 Thread Corenut
Mathew (One-Tee) wrote:

Hey list.  I'm looking to pick some of your brains today.
I have begun to develop a interest In horn design

 have learned a fair amount but am
wondering if anyone can direct me to some concrete sources.

Take care young man, there's a Cabbage about..

Foxy UK


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Re: [Hornlist] Valve question

2006-11-01 Thread billbamberg
I hope you're preparing with a good technical education. I much prefer 
a pure science, like physics, over more specialized engineering 
courses. That will prepare you to read meaningful advanced articles 
searching for solutions. A basic physics course will introduce you to 
Helmholz and resonators. You'll study waves in a tube, and what effects 
the properties. Later, studying theory will begin to tie things 
together. Studying advanced material that really interests you in 
conjunction with the theory will not only be far more meaningful to 
you, it will make dull theory much more pleasurable. Before you invest 
a lot of yourself in a project, pick something to work on that really 
fills a need. Most horn players who would appreciate an advanced mute 
already have mutes that have proven to work year after year. If you 
study valve linkages, you'll discover synthetic Spectra fishline is so 
thin and strong, you need to double it over to get a knot that won't 
slip through the hole. With two strings on each rotor, if a string 
breaks, the other takes over. Likewise, the ball joint linkage on my 
Paxman is as good and quiet as I need, and can be installed on any horn 
quite reasonably.


 To succeed in design or modifications, theory won't get you very far. 
I was trained by an internationally renowned scientist/engineer. 
Absolutely phenomenal in pioneering theory and tuning it into 
profitable products for GTE Sylvania. One of his favorite comments was, 
I'll predict nothing, but I'll explain everything. He taught me to 
always share my latest finding rather than keep them secret. Rarely do 
they do the competition much good, but if you can trade one ten times, 
all the new information you gather might lead you to something 
worthwhile. To succeed in design you have to gain control of the design 
so modifications are predictable and repeatable. A good exercise to see 
if you are really interested is to borrow several horns and very 
carefully measure the tapers of the inside of the bells and leadpipes 
accurate to 2-3 thousandths of an inch. To help you, assume when you 
start that the taper is a smooth, continuous function. Use Excel to 
plot your data set. If you get something close to a smooth curve, you 
can then go back and check and adjust your measurements. Each time, 
you'll learn more subtleties about the job. Plot the taper on a greatly 
shortened x axis to exaggerate it. When you're done, you should know 
exactly how long each horn really is, where the cylindrical tubing is 
located, and probably have found places where dents were very 
skillfully removed. Armed with this, you'll be ready to learn from the 
design information Walter Lawson generously makes available.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Sent: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Valve question

Dear Matthew, just reading books about that, is not the
right method to get into that stuff. One has to learn first,
how the mechanical functions work with different material,
how the opening  closing of the valves work, what influx
the details will have on the sound column if valves go into
action, how different alloy behave in contact each other,
about lubrification, how the action is performed, etc.etc.

All this could be read together, but without practica, it
will remain just a fumjbling around until a result or no
result will surface by chance or not.

Good sources with measurement tables, ankles, material
specifications etc. can be found in the books by Schramm:
Blechblasinstrumente  Noedl: Metallblasinstrumentenbau ,
but all in German language.

To understand all the basics, I would recommend you to stay
with a master for several months  learn as much as you can
then, to understand the basics of metal-wind-instrument
fabrication. But after that, the real task will begin. And I
promise you, you will not get rich by just two things: valve
design  mute design. It is a lousy business  can be done
only as a side job.


===
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mathew James
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 6:15 PM
To: horn list
Subject: [Hornlist] Valve question

Hey list. I'm looking to pick some of your brains today.
I have begun to develop a interest In horn design (features
more so than entire wraps and such) such as valve
mechanisms, and such. And also mute design, all cool stuff.
I have been digging through the Internet and my library for
books on the ideas and such, have learned a fair amount but
am wondering if anyone can direct me to some concrete
sources.
Many Thanks
--
Mathew James
___
post: horn@music.memphis.edu
unsubscribe or set options at
http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.
de

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post: horn

[Hornlist] valve question

2006-11-01 Thread Leonard Peggy Brown

date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 10:15:00 -0700
from: Mathew James [EMAIL PROTECTED]
subject: [Hornlist] Valve question

Hey list.  I'm looking to pick some of your brains today.
I have begun to develop a interest In horn design (features more so than
entire wraps and such) such as valve mechanisms, and such.  And also

mute

design, all cool stuff.  I have been digging through the Internet and my
library for books on the ideas and such, have learned a fair amount but

am

wondering if anyone can direct me to some concrete sources.
Many Thanks
--
Mathew James



Mathew,
  I just checked the phone book and it lists several ready mix concrete
companies.  If I were you though I would continue looking for information
about horns.  To that end, have you read The French Horn by Morley~Pegge?
It is a very good place to start and describes many odd instruments of years
past.

LLBrown 


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