RE: [Hornlist] Re: Schumann Konzertstuck - newer arrangement
Hello David, isn´t it the same with many orchestra parts, that the horn parts are not distributed equally ? Doesn´t the first take up most of the burden as well ? When I played the Konzertstueck I did not rearrange anything except at age 60, when I delegated just one or two measures before the very high runs, just to get a very short brake to regenerate strength. And the first horns are used this way of taking over the main burden - and it is fun also, while tutti horns are not that ambitious, at least after several years in their positions. == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David B. Thompson Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 2:12 AM To: 'Old Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Schumann Konzertstuck - newer arrangement Graeme Evans wrote: > You can be assured that everyone who plays this piece re-arranges it >somewhat so that (usually) the 2nd horn gets some of the melodic >material. I rarely find myself in the position of disagreeing with something that Graeme has written, but I could not let this assertion slip by unchallenged. Although I would not consider myself an expert on this work, as our colleagues in the AHQ might rightly be considered, I have had occasion to perform it publicly around a dozen times over the last 20 years, always on first horn (just by dint of circumstances, not out of any contempt for the other parts), always playing all the notes of the part as originally written (simply because I do not see the grave problem which to me would need to be present before I could justify mucking around with the composer's orchestration) and always playing the part on whatever regular double horn I used primarily at the time (even though I might have had my Paxman descant collecting dust in the locker downstairs - because I find the sound quality and especially the blend and balance with my colleagues to be better when I stay on the double). Some of those performances have been more triumphant than others, but I don't believe any were tragic. I have had the opportunity to hear Richard Burdick perform on several occasions, know him to be a very accomplished hornist, and have no doubt that he is likewise up to the challenges the work presents in its original orchestration. Nor do I believe that we are alone. In fact, I suspect it may be something of a recent trend to rearrange the parts; up until relatively recently I was not aware of many players doing so. In my school days, it was something of a point of honor to play the part as written - if one chose to play it at all. We would no more have considered leaving out selected bits of the Konzertstück than we would have considered actually taking the high B in the duet with the flute in Shostakovich 5 down an octave (even though Shostakovich, unlike Schumann does explicitly provide that option) There are some very taxing solo concerti in the repertoire, which many of the players who are rearranging these Konzertstücks perform without batting an eye - and they certainly would never consider having an assistant standing by or redistributing some of the solo part to the orchestral horns. Finally, I would hate to sacrifice playing the body of the second movement for what I consider to be two good reasons: 1) It is the movement which I find musically the most interesting to perform and 2) I find it to be just what the doctor ordered at that point in the performance - a bit of playing in comfortable and mid-low registers - precisely what many of us would choose to do if given the opportunity to loosen up before the third movement. Do not get me wrong - I know that many fine performers DO rearrange the parts to very good effect, and it can be argued that that is their prerogative. It is not my intention to question their judgment or qualifications in any way. However, the generalization that everyone does it is simply false. David B. Thompson Solo Horn, Barcelona Symphony Orchestra ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Schumann Konzertstuck - newer arrangement
Greetings, A bit to add to the discussion on the use of arrangements of Konzertstuck -- I was able to hear the Cleveland Orchestra and their normal horn players perform the Konzertsuck tonight, and while I am not familiar with the various arrangements of the piece, it seemed to follow what has been described as the original orchestration (with most melodic material in the first horn, etc). Did anyone else see/hear this performance? The horns played excellently and seemingly with ease. Steven Slaff - Original Message - From: "David B. Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Saturday, February 26, 2005 8:12 pm Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Schumann Konzertstuck - newer arrangement > Graeme Evans wrote: > > You can be assured that everyone who plays this piece re-arranges > >it somewhat so that (usually) the 2nd horn gets some of the melodic > >material. > > I rarely find myself in the position of disagreeing with something > thatGraeme has written, but I could not let this assertion slip by > unchallenged. > Although I would not consider myself an expert on this work, as our > colleagues in the AHQ might rightly be considered, I have had > occasion to > perform it publicly around a dozen times over the last 20 years, > always on > first horn (just by dint of circumstances, not out of any contempt > for the > other parts), always playing all the notes of the part as > originally written > (simply because I do not see the grave problem which to me would > need to be > present before I could justify mucking around with the composer's > orchestration) and always playing the part on whatever regular > double horn I > used primarily at the time (even though I might have had my Paxman > descantcollecting dust in the locker downstairs - because I find > the sound quality > and especially the blend and balance with my colleagues to be > better when I > stay on the double). > > Some of those performances have been more triumphant than others, > but I > don't believe any were tragic. > > I have had the opportunity to hear Richard Burdick perform on several > occasions, know him to be a very accomplished hornist, and have no > doubtthat he is likewise up to the challenges the work presents in > its original > orchestration. > > Nor do I believe that we are alone. In fact, I suspect it may be > somethingof a recent trend to rearrange the parts; up until > relatively recently I was > not aware of many players doing so. In my school days, it was > something of > a point of honor to play the part as written - if one chose to > play it at > all. We would no more have considered leaving out selected bits > of the > Konzertstück than we would have considered actually taking the > high B in the > duet with the flute in Shostakovich 5 down an octave (even though > Shostakovich, unlike Schumann does explicitly provide that option) > > There are some very taxing solo concerti in the repertoire, which > many of > the players who are rearranging these Konzertstücks perform > without batting > an eye - and they certainly would never consider having an assistant > standing by or redistributing some of the solo part to the > orchestral horns. > > Finally, I would hate to sacrifice playing the body of the second > movementfor what I consider to be two good reasons: > > 1) It is the movement which I find musically the most interesting to > perform and > > 2) I find it to be just what the doctor ordered at that point in the > performance - a bit of playing in comfortable and mid-low > registers - > precisely what many of us would choose to do if given the > opportunity to > loosen up before the third movement. > > Do not get me wrong - I know that many fine performers DO > rearrange the > parts to very good effect, and it can be argued that that is their > prerogative. It is not my intention to question their judgment or > qualifications in any way. However, the generalization that > everyone does > it is simply false. > > > David B. Thompson > Solo Horn, Barcelona Symphony Orchestra > > > > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steven.slaff%40oberlin.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Schumann Konzertstuck - newer arrangement
Graeme Evans wrote: > You can be assured that everyone who plays this piece re-arranges >it somewhat so that (usually) the 2nd horn gets some of the melodic >material. I rarely find myself in the position of disagreeing with something that Graeme has written, but I could not let this assertion slip by unchallenged. Although I would not consider myself an expert on this work, as our colleagues in the AHQ might rightly be considered, I have had occasion to perform it publicly around a dozen times over the last 20 years, always on first horn (just by dint of circumstances, not out of any contempt for the other parts), always playing all the notes of the part as originally written (simply because I do not see the grave problem which to me would need to be present before I could justify mucking around with the composer's orchestration) and always playing the part on whatever regular double horn I used primarily at the time (even though I might have had my Paxman descant collecting dust in the locker downstairs - because I find the sound quality and especially the blend and balance with my colleagues to be better when I stay on the double). Some of those performances have been more triumphant than others, but I don't believe any were tragic. I have had the opportunity to hear Richard Burdick perform on several occasions, know him to be a very accomplished hornist, and have no doubt that he is likewise up to the challenges the work presents in its original orchestration. Nor do I believe that we are alone. In fact, I suspect it may be something of a recent trend to rearrange the parts; up until relatively recently I was not aware of many players doing so. In my school days, it was something of a point of honor to play the part as written - if one chose to play it at all. We would no more have considered leaving out selected bits of the Konzertstück than we would have considered actually taking the high B in the duet with the flute in Shostakovich 5 down an octave (even though Shostakovich, unlike Schumann does explicitly provide that option) There are some very taxing solo concerti in the repertoire, which many of the players who are rearranging these Konzertstücks perform without batting an eye - and they certainly would never consider having an assistant standing by or redistributing some of the solo part to the orchestral horns. Finally, I would hate to sacrifice playing the body of the second movement for what I consider to be two good reasons: 1) It is the movement which I find musically the most interesting to perform and 2) I find it to be just what the doctor ordered at that point in the performance - a bit of playing in comfortable and mid-low registers - precisely what many of us would choose to do if given the opportunity to loosen up before the third movement. Do not get me wrong - I know that many fine performers DO rearrange the parts to very good effect, and it can be argued that that is their prerogative. It is not my intention to question their judgment or qualifications in any way. However, the generalization that everyone does it is simply false. David B. Thompson Solo Horn, Barcelona Symphony Orchestra ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Schumann Konzertstuck - newer arrangement
And here I thought it was some side-effect of some sub-article of Die Neue Deutsche Rechtschreibung that did away with the erstwhile confusing tß, tsß, tßs, tßß, and tsßs. John Baumgart - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Horn List'" Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 2:38 PM Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Schumann Konzertstuck - newer arrangement > Sorry, Cabbage, the different number of s is just a nuance > of dynamics. > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:46 PM > To: horn@music.memphis.edu > Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Schumann Konzertstuck - newer > arrangement > > Hans P wrote > > Hello Graeme, you are absolutely right. These purists, > t,tsss, tsss Mostly people, who just know things > but cannot do it themselves , tsss, tsss, tss ... > > * > Well, hello Hans, if you must hiss at others, please > try to be more consistent. Maybe tsss, tsss, tsss > or t, t, t or even tss, tss, tss (if you > are trying not to give offence). In this way, you will > be setting a good example for us younger players on the > hornlist. > > Gotsssa go > Cabbage > ___ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Schumann Konzertstuck - newer arrangement
Sorry, Cabbage, the different number of s is just a nuance of dynamics. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:46 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Schumann Konzertstuck - newer arrangement Hans P wrote Hello Graeme, you are absolutely right. These purists, t,tsss, tsss Mostly people, who just know things but cannot do it themselves , tsss, tsss, tss ... * Well, hello Hans, if you must hiss at others, please try to be more consistent. Maybe tsss, tsss, tsss or t, t, t or even tss, tss, tss (if you are trying not to give offence). In this way, you will be setting a good example for us younger players on the hornlist. Gotsssa go Cabbage ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Schumann Konzertstuck - newer arrangement
Cabbage sezzz: > Well, hello Hans, if you must hiss at others, please > try to be more consistent. Maybe tsss, tsss, tsss > or t, t, t or even tss, tss, tss (if you > are trying not to give offence). In this way, you will > be setting a good example for us younger players on > the hornlist. t is not exactly an offence. Hans meant it only as a slur. Cheers, David ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Schumann Konzertstuck - newer arrangement
Hello Graeme, you are absolutely right. These purists, t,tsss, tsss Mostly people, who just know things but cannot do it themselves , tsss, tsss, tss ... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Graeme Evans Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 12:52 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Schumann Konzertstuck - newer arrangement Richard, Have you ever performed the unaltered version of the Schumann Konzertstueck for 4 horns? If you had attempted to, you would realise how impractical this is, with far too much of the burden falling on the 1st horn. You can be assured that everyone who plays this piece re-arranges it somewhat so that (usually) the 2nd horn gets some of the melodic material. The AHQ version gives the 3rd and 4th horns the bulk of the slow movement, so relieving the 1st pair. This is all sensible, and does not change the totality of the music in any way at all. To say: > If your orchestra wants to play the piece but your first hornist can't > handle it, maybe they should do Schumann's version for Piano and > orchestra! is ridiculous, and makes me think you are confusing this work with another. Clearly you have little knowledge of the Konzertstueck for 4 horns! Cheers, Graeme Evans (Principal Horn, Melbourne Symphony Orchestra) +61 3 9318 0690(H), +61 419 880371(B), +61 3 93180893(Fax) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Schumann Konzertstuck - newer arrangement
Richard, Have you ever performed the unaltered version of the Schumann Konzertstueck for 4 horns? If you had attempted to, you would realise how impractical this is, with far too much of the burden falling on the 1st horn. You can be assured that everyone who plays this piece re-arranges it somewhat so that (usually) the 2nd horn gets some of the melodic material. The AHQ version gives the 3rd and 4th horns the bulk of the slow movement, so relieving the 1st pair. This is all sensible, and does not change the totality of the music in any way at all. To say: If your orchestra wants to play the piece but your first hornist can't handle it, maybe they should do Schumann's version for Piano and orchestra! is ridiculous, and makes me think you are confusing this work with another. Clearly you have little knowledge of the Konzertstueck for 4 horns! Cheers, Graeme Evans (Principal Horn, Melbourne Symphony Orchestra) +61 3 9318 0690(H), +61 419 880371(B), +61 3 93180893(Fax) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
