RE: AW: [Hornlist] How to adjust the slides?
Very simple, just transpose the whole process if you were playing a horn part in E-flat. = "Loren Mayhew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > I agree. I would also add an observation; in the case of many amateur horn > sections, I've often found it necessary to tune the horns to concert g1 > ahead of the formal tuning. For some reason, my guess is weak lips, this > note tends to be horribly out of tune in these groups. > > Loren Mayhew > \@() > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > (520) 403-6897 > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Prof.Hans Pizka > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 1:09 PM > To: The Horn List > Subject: Re: AW: [Hornlist] How to adjust the slides? > > SCott, if you were in a professional orchestra, you would adjust your horn > according to the given "a2 of the oboe. It is nonsense to play the same note > on the horn. One must tune the horn with an interval. So the best note (a > note which is good on both sides of most horns) should be the concert f1 our > written c2 in the middle of the staff. If the interval to the given a of the > oboe is fine, the general intonation of the horn might be fine. If the > slides are adjusted to my thumb rule, most notes are well tune. But one > needs a good ear to recognize if one note is a bit sharp another flat, so to > correct it by the lips or the right hand instantly. > > But many players just think, the horn is well tuned with the tuning machine > & I can play safely. Perfect wrong, perfect wrong. > > Adjusting is a permanent process even during the concert or during the solo. > But if there is no ear, there is no hope. > == > > ___ > post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > set your options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans.pizka%40t-online.de > -- Prof.Hans Pizka email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel.: +49 89 903 9548 - www.pizka.de (horn site) with connections to www.pizka.de/Pizka-music.html (publications) - www.pizka.de/PizClasHr.htm (instruments, mouthpieces) www.pizka.de/PizWrHorn.htm (Viennese Horns) - www.pizka.de/mpiece.htm (mouthpieces) www.pizka.de/Pizka-travel.htm (pictures, stories, experiences from my travel) - open soon mail is virus checked ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: AW: [Hornlist] How to adjust the slides?
I agree. I would also add an observation; in the case of many amateur horn sections, I've often found it necessary to tune the horns to concert g1 ahead of the formal tuning. For some reason, my guess is weak lips, this note tends to be horribly out of tune in these groups. Loren Mayhew \@() [EMAIL PROTECTED] (520) 403-6897 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Prof.Hans Pizka Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 1:09 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: AW: [Hornlist] How to adjust the slides? SCott, if you were in a professional orchestra, you would adjust your horn according to the given "a2 of the oboe. It is nonsense to play the same note on the horn. One must tune the horn with an interval. So the best note (a note which is good on both sides of most horns) should be the concert f1 our written c2 in the middle of the staff. If the interval to the given a of the oboe is fine, the general intonation of the horn might be fine. If the slides are adjusted to my thumb rule, most notes are well tune. But one needs a good ear to recognize if one note is a bit sharp another flat, so to correct it by the lips or the right hand instantly. But many players just think, the horn is well tuned with the tuning machine & I can play safely. Perfect wrong, perfect wrong. Adjusting is a permanent process even during the concert or during the solo. But if there is no ear, there is no hope. == ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: AW: [Hornlist] How to adjust the slides?
Too bad horns aren't "tuned at the factory" like the trombone owned by the fellow who sits next to me in our orchestra! Fred - Original Message Follows - > SCott, if you were in a professional orchestra, you would > adjust your horn according to the given "a2 of the oboe. > It is nonsense to play the same note on the horn. One must > tune the horn with an interval. So the best note (a note > which is good on both sides of most horns) should be the > concert f1 our written c2 in the middle of the staff. If > the interval to the given a of the oboe is fine, the > general intonation of the horn might be fine. If the > slides are adjusted to my thumb rule, most notes are well > tune. But one needs a good ear to recognize if one note is > a bit sharp another flat, so to correct it by the lips or > the right hand instantly. > > But many players just think, the horn is well tuned with > the tuning machine & I can play safely. Perfect wrong, > perfect wrong. > > Adjusting is a permanent process even during the concert > or during the solo.. But if there is no ear, there is no > hope. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: AW: [Hornlist] How to adjust the slides?
SCott, if you were in a professional orchestra, you would adjust your horn according to the given "a2 of the oboe. It is nonsense to play the same note on the horn. One must tune the horn with an interval. So the best note (a note which is good on both sides of most horns) should be the concert f1 our written c2 in the middle of the staff. If the interval to the given a of the oboe is fine, the general intonation of the horn might be fine. If the slides are adjusted to my thumb rule, most notes are well tune. But one needs a good ear to recognize if one note is a bit sharp another flat, so to correct it by the lips or the right hand instantly. But many players just think, the horn is well tuned with the tuning machine & I can play safely. Perfect wrong, perfect wrong. Adjusting is a permanent process even during the concert or during the solo. But if there is no ear, there is no hope. == "Scott Bacon Dürkhorns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > Not all horns fall under the same tuning slide suggestion. Every different > horn design, be it a Kruspe, Geyer, Knopf, D3/103, Schmitt, have there own > general tendencies of pitch that the player must be aware of. Even horns of > the same genre differ horn to horn. When learning the horn you play, it is > my belief that you must consider these tendencies with the slides all the > way in first. Then make your adjustments in the open harmonic series with > all of the chromatic fingering configurations of the horn. > > Herr Pizka, when you tune your slides only for the a2, how does it change > the intonation for you in the register below that for all 1 and 2 valve > combinations? I was taught that tuning for one specific note is not an > accurate way to tune a horn. Isn't it better to make concessions on the > open harmonics in all keys and then learn where the notes "sit" to > accurately play them? Help me out a bit on this one please. I do not > completely understand this methodology. > > My experience is that I can show a horn to a student who is playing 20 or 30 > cents sharp consistently. I then pull the slides nearly all the way out, > and without the student knowing, the student plays 20 to 30 cents sharp. I > then push the slides all the way in and the student plays 20 to 30 cents > sharp. Why? Inner ear memory...and lack of awareness to the horn > surroundings... > > Fine tuning the horn is for people with advanced inner ears and a highly > developed skill of locating the "sweat spots" for the notes on a horn. I > believe that Herr Pizka's dimensions are good for most horns, and most > players, however those of you with these skills should find the spots on > your horn that work best for you and the horn you are playing. For those of > you who aren't sure? Heed to Herr Pizka's suggestion. It is a good > starting point for continued learning. > > Furthermore I open a can. In striving for perfect intonation on a horn, > doesn't this limit the changes to our right hand position and > embouchure/mouth cavity for sound/coloring/shaping? When a horn plays > completely in tune do we find the sound dull and boring? When a horn is > more in tune note to note, does it make our jobs easier or harder to make > high quality music? > > > Some ideas and thoughts... go to it guys... > Scott H. Bacon > Sales, Marketing, and Service > Verkauf, Marketing, und Service > Specialist in French Horn > Spezialist für Waldhorn > > Musikhaus Dürk > Steuerstraße 16a > 55411 Bingen - Dromersheim > Germany > > Telephone: 49 ((0)6725) 1507 > Fax: 49 ((0)6725) 6307 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Website: www.DuerkHorns.de. > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Auftrag von > Peter W. Schroth > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Juli 2003 17:52 > An: The Horn List > Betreff: Re: [Hornlist] How to adjust the slides? > > I just measured. I'm feeling somewhat validated, because > mine were not far from these measurements. > > However, can it be that all makes of horn are (about) the > same in this respect? > > > "Prof.Hans Pizka" wrote: > > > > Thumb rule: > > > > F-side > > 1st slide about 8-9 mms > > > > 2nd slide about 7-8 mms > > > > 3rd slide 10-12 mms > > > > BB-side > > all a bit less (1-2 mms) > > > > This is right mostly, but check careful about the combination 12 on the > Bb-horn for the high a2. Fine adjustings helps a lot for a secure a2. > > > > ___ > post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > set your options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/s.bacon%40duerkhorns.de > > > ___ > post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > set your options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans.pizka%40t-online.de > -- Prof.Hans Pizka email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel.: +49 89 903 9548 - www.pizka.de (horn site) with connections to www.pizka.de/Pizka-music.html (publications)
Re: AW: [Hornlist] How to adjust the slides?
I'm about to upload scans of the Lawson recommended tuning procedure for double horns to our file space. Chris --- Scott_Bacon_Dürkhorns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Not all horns fall under the same tuning slide suggestion. Every different > horn design, be it a Kruspe, Geyer, Knopf, D3/103, Schmitt, have there own > general tendencies of pitch that the player must be aware of. Even horns of > the same genre differ horn to horn. When learning the horn you play, it is > my belief that you must consider these tendencies with the slides all the > way in first. Then make your adjustments in the open harmonic series with > all of the chromatic fingering configurations of the horn. > > Herr Pizka, when you tune your slides only for the a2, how does it change > the intonation for you in the register below that for all 1 and 2 valve > combinations? I was taught that tuning for one specific note is not an > accurate way to tune a horn. Isn't it better to make concessions on the > open harmonics in all keys and then learn where the notes "sit" to > accurately play them? Help me out a bit on this one please. I do not > completely understand this methodology. > > My experience is that I can show a horn to a student who is playing 20 or 30 > cents sharp consistently. I then pull the slides nearly all the way out, > and without the student knowing, the student plays 20 to 30 cents sharp. I > then push the slides all the way in and the student plays 20 to 30 cents > sharp. Why? Inner ear memory...and lack of awareness to the horn > surroundings... > > Fine tuning the horn is for people with advanced inner ears and a highly > developed skill of locating the "sweat spots" for the notes on a horn. I > believe that Herr Pizka's dimensions are good for most horns, and most > players, however those of you with these skills should find the spots on > your horn that work best for you and the horn you are playing. For those of > you who aren't sure? Heed to Herr Pizka's suggestion. It is a good > starting point for continued learning. > > Furthermore I open a can. In striving for perfect intonation on a horn, > doesn't this limit the changes to our right hand position and > embouchure/mouth cavity for sound/coloring/shaping? When a horn plays > completely in tune do we find the sound dull and boring? When a horn is > more in tune note to note, does it make our jobs easier or harder to make > high quality music? > > > Some ideas and thoughts... go to it guys... > Scott H. Bacon > Sales, Marketing, and Service > Verkauf, Marketing, und Service > Specialist in French Horn > Spezialist für Waldhorn > > Musikhaus Dürk > Steuerstraße 16a > 55411 Bingen - Dromersheim > Germany > > Telephone: 49 ((0)6725) 1507 > Fax: 49 ((0)6725) 6307 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Website: www.DuerkHorns.de. > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Auftrag von > Peter W. Schroth > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Juli 2003 17:52 > An: The Horn List > Betreff: Re: [Hornlist] How to adjust the slides? > > I just measured. I'm feeling somewhat validated, because > mine were not far from these measurements. > > However, can it be that all makes of horn are (about) the > same in this respect? > > > "Prof.Hans Pizka" wrote: > > > > Thumb rule: > > > > F-side > > 1st slide about 8-9 mms > > > > 2nd slide about 7-8 mms > > > > 3rd slide 10-12 mms > > > > BB-side > > all a bit less (1-2 mms) > > > > This is right mostly, but check careful about the combination 12 on the > Bb-horn for the high a2. Fine adjustings helps a lot for a secure a2. > > > > ___ > post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > set your options at > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/s.bacon%40duerkhorns.de > > > ___ > post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/tedesccj%40yahoo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: AW: [Hornlist] How to adjust the slides?
In a message dated 7/31/2003 9:38:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Fine tuning the horn is for people with advanced inner ears and a highly > developed skill of locating the "sweat spots" for the notes on a horn. Hi Scott, I'll remember this as I play "Joseph . Dreamcoat" tonight outdoors in the 85-90 degree heat. There will be "sweat spots" on both the horn and me. ;-D Hope all is well with you and yours in Germany. Regards, Jerry in Kansas City ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
