Re: [HOT] [info-hotosm] Helipad Identification/Verification
Hello Paul, Thanks for your comment, a word to the wise I suppose. However, Google Earth is set up to record points and lines, save them to KML files and even publish them on a public website if I recall correctly. This would seem to invite the creation of data catalogs, at least for noncommercial purposes. Failing this approach, perhaps an enterprise contract could be developed under the aegis of OSM, the Red Cross or some such agency providing an emergency response? It seems to me that in a dire situation such as exists in Nepal, perhaps the lawyers could back off a bit and let the volunteers get cracking with the best available tools for the job at hand. I presume there is no commercial aspect to these projects and that it is indeed purely humanitarian. Or possibly a token contract fee or licensing charge could be established. The technology exists, what better application than a major disaster? I can assure you, based on my years of experience with both helicopters and Google Earth, Google Earth is a much more productive way to identify helipads then JOSM. No, I did not create any data points from my Google Earth experiment. Thanks, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison At 09-05-2015 00:15 Saturday, Paul Norman wrote: On 5/8/2015 11:39 PM, Springfield Harrison wrote: ... The Google terms of service do not permit the use of Google imagery to generate a map database*, which prevents the use of Google Earth with default imagery. Did you add any helipads based on Google imagery? If so, can you please send me details off-list. * If you have an enterprise contract for Google Earth, you may have different terms, but consult your lawyer. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] [info-hotosm] Helipad Identification/Verification
On 5/8/2015 11:39 PM, Springfield Harrison wrote: This is a re-post from yesterday as it was too big and was rejected by the list moderator (image?). I've deleted the image. My apologies to those who did receive it already. Cheers . . . . Spring Harrison . . . . Hello Mappers, Thanks for your comments and observations in reply to mine of yesterday. Unfortunately, no time to deal with all of them separately right now. A forum format would be much more efficient for exploring discussions; this e-mail approach is quite fragmented. I'm sorry if I have missed anyone in this reply, the cast of characters seems to vary. Have been exploring the verification process for task 1026-236, helipad identification. Some observations follow: ·On a second monitor, I viewed the same area (236) in Google Earth and immediately got a vastly better feel for the terrain and was able to quickly identify several good helipads with good certainty as to quality. My background includes helicopter piloting as well as GIS. ·At least for locating helipads, I would highly favour using Google Earth, the perspective view and better image quality vastly increases productivity. ·Markups could be done directly in Google Earth, saved as KML files and forwarded to OSM. Image attached below. ·The only problem with this method is that the Task Area tile grid would need to be provided for navigation. I doubt if that would be difficult as a KML file. ·In some cases, the age of the Google Earth imagery may be a slight drawback but since production is the chief imperative here, that shouldn't be a big issue. ·Perhaps a customized Google Earth application using current disaster imagery could be fired up for the duration of this exercise? On-the-fly innovation is needed in emergencies. ·As a test, you could send me a collection of helipads for inspection in Google Earth, it is very difficult to verify them in JOSM. In Google Earth, the reconnaissance process is quite fast and effective. I hope these observations are helpful. I think the use of Google Earth would improve the helipad selection process by orders of magnitude. The Google terms of service do not permit the use of Google imagery to generate a map database*, which prevents the use of Google Earth with default imagery. Did you add any helipads based on Google imagery? If so, can you please send me details off-list. * If you have an enterprise contract for Google Earth, you may have different terms, but consult your lawyer. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
[HOT] [info-hotosm] Helipad Identification/Verification
This is a re-post from yesterday as it was too big and was rejected by the list moderator (image?). I've deleted the image. My apologies to those who did receive it already. Cheers . . . . Spring Harrison . . . . Hello Mappers, Thanks for your comments and observations in reply to mine of yesterday. Unfortunately, no time to deal with all of them separately right now. A forum format would be much more efficient for exploring discussions; this e-mail approach is quite fragmented. I'm sorry if I have missed anyone in this reply, the cast of characters seems to vary. Have been exploring the verification process for task 1026-236, helipad identification. Some observations follow: · one potential helipad identified, no actual helipads · it looks like there are likely quite a few more but hard to be sure using this imagery, although it is not bad quality · although listed in the layers pane as Bing Imagery, the caption at the bottom of the photo says Digital Globe, this is confusing · three forested polygons have been drawn but have very crude outlines and don't actually represent the forested areas very well at all; many other apparently similar forested areas are not mapped. These polygons lie mostly outside the boundaries of tile 236. During a natural disaster response, is there some purpose to roughly mapping random blocks of forest land? · On a second monitor, I viewed the same area (236) in Google Earth and immediately got a vastly better feel for the terrain and was able to quickly identify several good helipads with good certainty as to quality. My background includes helicopter piloting as well as GIS. · At least for locating helipads, I would highly favour using Google Earth, the perspective view and better image quality vastly increases productivity. · Markups could be done directly in Google Earth, saved as KML files and forwarded to OSM. Image attached below. · The only problem with this method is that the Task Area tile grid would need to be provided for navigation. I doubt if that would be difficult as a KML file. · In some cases, the age of the Google Earth imagery may be a slight drawback but since production is the chief imperative here, that shouldn't be a big issue. · Perhaps a customized Google Earth application using current disaster imagery could be fired up for the duration of this exercise? On-the-fly innovation is needed in emergencies. · As a test, you could send me a collection of helipads for inspection in Google Earth, it is very difficult to verify them in JOSM. In Google Earth, the reconnaissance process is quite fast and effective. · I noticed that there are countless Key Terms, many of them having obscure meanings at best. This would surely confuse most new users and lead to inaccurate tagging. The forest polygons are labeled as natural = wood in one case and land-use = forest in another although they appear to be much the same type of forest. No wonder data verification cannot be accomplished on input; it looks like every user invents their own terminology! E.g., leisure = common denotes a helipad? JOSM is certainly not for the faint of heart. · Most database/GIS projects use a data dictionary approach with a more limited but meaningful list of potential attributes. The existing data structure would make effective querying almost impossible, far too many overlapping options now. It would be interesting to see how these tags actually get used when there is so much near-duplication and ambiguity. I hope these observations are helpful. I think the use of Google Earth would improve the helipad selection process by orders of magnitude. Thanks, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
