Re: [HOT] Validating TM2 - providing feedback to new mappers
I agree with Blake. An irc per job would be too much. We could first try to use the #hot irc. There were suggestions yesterday by Allen to add some documentation on the Task Manager. A Help Pannel could do this job. In this pannel, it would describe the various info available with links - LearnOsm - Mapping in the context of african country (a page with various examples + images) - Wiki page for the project if any (a wiki page field to be added in the edit page of the job) For me a project is an activation like Ebola with many TM jobs - Highway Tag Africa - HOT discussion list - #hot irc - List of validation comments for this user - etc Pierre De : Blake Girardot bgirar...@gmail.com À : HOT hot@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Dimanche 31 août 2014 22h26 Objet : Re: [HOT] Validating TM2 - providing feedback to new mappers On 8/31/2014 10:09 PM, maning sambale wrote: There was a discussion several months ago proposing irc like client for each job. I think embedding synchronous communication for each job is a good approach to providing real-time feedback to those working on a specific project/job. For some prior art, check out MapCraft [0]. Related tickets [1 and 2] [0] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MapCraft [1] https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager/issues/148 [2] https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager/issues/40 I think irc type channel per job might be to few people to help. The traffic in the current #hot irc channel is very sparse as it is. If we could get new people and experienced people together now in the current hot irc channel that would be good progress, if for some reason it turned out to be over crowded we could look at a per project/activation/country channel breakout of some sort. But if things get too fine grained you lose some of the benefit of a group exchange. Most of the questions I see (and have) are not specific to a project or task, but just to being a new mapper in general, which anyone could probably answer. Now I have visions of a josm irc plugin so the irc channel could just be a panel on the left. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
[HOT] Validating TM2 - providing feedback to new mappers
Severin I like the ideas here. Essentially, we're talking about calculating and recording mappers reputation, and then incorporating into handling of validation. How did you contribute http://hdyc.neis-one.org/ is one example of reputation calculation. It's entirely automated. Your suggesting to add specific, manually recorded feedback on a users specific edits. A prerequisite would be to categorize OSMTM taks by the general kind of work required, which could have other benefits (like standardizing instructions). I wonder if we could have the same result, to focus validator efforts and give feedback to mappers, by simply using the HDYC reputation calculation (Type of Mapper). Are most cases of mistakes in HOT jobs from relatively new mappers to OSM? Or do we also see experienced OSM-ers making mistakes in unfamiliar terrain? In any case, the work on the OSMTM2 API could help. We can then more easily analyse active jobs, by querying and maybe even setting status through the API. Another idea I've been mulling over is microtasking validation. The idea is to make in depth validation easier; it seems that validation is not so popular or easy with our current tools. Split up the validation, of say buildings over a task square, into individual building microtasks. A contributor simply marks whether the building was drawn correctly, or not. This should only take a few seconds, and could involve large numbers of people in a very simple task. The collective microtask results of a task square could then be used to guide selective in depth validation. -Mikel On Sunday, August 31, 2014 3:09 AM, Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Thinking aloud, would not be possible (actually asking tech people) to have a tool allwing the following: - detecting changesets with hotosm hashtags and picking up the username - comparing the username to a list of HOTOSM contributors and stating if it is new or not and already validated for a certain numbers of quality items (like drawing buildings correctly, drawing roads correctly, tagging roads correctly, etc.) - when contributors have not been validated yet, a task is sent to a validation team - one team member picks up the task, check, validate the work of the contributor and contact her/him if some mistakes. A form would be great, with checkboxes for typical errors, and if making a typical one, the contributor would receive in the answer link to the Learning point (there are already quite a few in LearnOSM) dedicated to this error - once done the hotosm contributor quality status for this contributor would be: good for such and such aspects, bad for such and such ones and the latter would then be tasked in the future for validators as soon as this contributor would submit a new changeset Thoughts? Sincerely, Severin ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Validating TM2 - providing feedback to new mappers
Hi Severin, Sounds like a nice approach. However the first two steps are unneeded - we can detect new users when they mark squares as done, not via changeset hashtags. In my experience newcomers often forget to tag changesets, so your approach would miss many of them - yet we already know their username within the Tasking Manager. Also I'm not keen on the idea of marking users as bad for such and such. It would be better simply to have neutral state plus good for such and such. Best Dan 2014-08-31 8:07 GMT+01:00 Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com: Hi all, Thinking aloud, would not be possible (actually asking tech people) to have a tool allwing the following: - detecting changesets with hotosm hashtags and picking up the username - comparing the username to a list of HOTOSM contributors and stating if it is new or not and already validated for a certain numbers of quality items (like drawing buildings correctly, drawing roads correctly, tagging roads correctly, etc.) - when contributors have not been validated yet, a task is sent to a validation team - one team member picks up the task, check, validate the work of the contributor and contact her/him if some mistakes. A form would be great, with checkboxes for typical errors, and if making a typical one, the contributor would receive in the answer link to the Learning point (there are already quite a few in LearnOSM) dedicated to this error - once done the hotosm contributor quality status for this contributor would be: good for such and such aspects, bad for such and such ones and the latter would then be tasked in the future for validators as soon as this contributor would submit a new changeset Thoughts? Sincerely, Severin On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Nick Allen nick.allen...@gmail.com wrote: Pierre, A help channel or some form social help channel would be good, but in order to ask for help, the mapper needs to realise they are doing something wrong, or don't know how to do something. The new mappers in this thread are consistently asking for someone to check their work, and provide feedback so they know what to do to improve. The validation process is good for this as well as quality control - but it would be nice if we made it easier for the new mapper to receive the comments, and if needed for the validator to pass them. I don't know if it is easily achievable, but perhaps a system where the validators comments are more easily available to the mapper, unless they opt to not receive them. I know that MSF BRC were keen to offer help, and I know that the few mappers that have replied to this thread are asking for this feedback. It would be good if more mappers replied, especially if they are new, so we have an idea as to whether it is worth investigating further. Regards Nick (Tallguy) -- Nick Volunteer 'Tallguy' for https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy Treasurer, website Bonus Ball admin for http://www.6thswanleyscouts.org.uk/ (treasu...@6thswanleyscouts.org.uk) ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Validating TM2 - providing feedback to new mappers
I would not publish rating of users based on evaluation of their mapping. This is an information to use to contact them or to see elements to develop in learning material. The OSM API lets extract changesets for an user, a specific bbox and time span. This way, we can catch all the user contributions for a Task bbox, even if he did not use a hashtag in the Changeset comment. Pierre De : Dan S danstowell+...@gmail.com À : hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Dimanche 31 août 2014 13h47 Objet : Re: [HOT] Validating TM2 - providing feedback to new mappers Hi Severin, Sounds like a nice approach. However the first two steps are unneeded - we can detect new users when they mark squares as done, not via changeset hashtags. In my experience newcomers often forget to tag changesets, so your approach would miss many of them - yet we already know their username within the Tasking Manager. Also I'm not keen on the idea of marking users as bad for such and such. It would be better simply to have neutral state plus good for such and such. Best Dan 2014-08-31 8:07 GMT+01:00 Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com: Hi all, Thinking aloud, would not be possible (actually asking tech people) to have a tool allwing the following: - detecting changesets with hotosm hashtags and picking up the username - comparing the username to a list of HOTOSM contributors and stating if it is new or not and already validated for a certain numbers of quality items (like drawing buildings correctly, drawing roads correctly, tagging roads correctly, etc.) - when contributors have not been validated yet, a task is sent to a validation team - one team member picks up the task, check, validate the work of the contributor and contact her/him if some mistakes. A form would be great, with checkboxes for typical errors, and if making a typical one, the contributor would receive in the answer link to the Learning point (there are already quite a few in LearnOSM) dedicated to this error - once done the hotosm contributor quality status for this contributor would be: good for such and such aspects, bad for such and such ones and the latter would then be tasked in the future for validators as soon as this contributor would submit a new changeset Thoughts? Sincerely, Severin On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Nick Allen nick.allen...@gmail.com wrote: Pierre, A help channel or some form social help channel would be good, but in order to ask for help, the mapper needs to realise they are doing something wrong, or don't know how to do something. The new mappers in this thread are consistently asking for someone to check their work, and provide feedback so they know what to do to improve. The validation process is good for this as well as quality control - but it would be nice if we made it easier for the new mapper to receive the comments, and if needed for the validator to pass them. I don't know if it is easily achievable, but perhaps a system where the validators comments are more easily available to the mapper, unless they opt to not receive them. I know that MSF BRC were keen to offer help, and I know that the few mappers that have replied to this thread are asking for this feedback. It would be good if more mappers replied, especially if they are new, so we have an idea as to whether it is worth investigating further. Regards Nick (Tallguy) -- Nick Volunteer 'Tallguy' for https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy Treasurer, website Bonus Ball admin for http://www.6thswanleyscouts.org.uk/ (treasu...@6thswanleyscouts.org.uk) ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Validating TM2 - providing feedback to new mappers
Hi, gamification seems to be a hot trend lately. My understanding of this is a clear communication of (community) goals and closing the feedback cycle to individual contributors. Counting validated squares may be a good proxy for a user's efficiency. It may not be the most finegrained, and lead to people trying to game the system. Also, like Dan S said, only reinforce positive contributions, non-improving contributions require a learning impulse and vandalism should be handled quietly. I also like Mikel's idea of microtasking validation. I'd guess that scoring an individual building on a green/yellow/red scale in a specifically designed webapp to reduce effort would be much easier than working with josm+browser and trying to judge whole squares. Also it might improve the feedback as in This building should be drawn square on the foundations, not including it's roof's shadow. Regards, David On 2014-08-31 09:07, Severin Menard wrote: Hi all, Thinking aloud, would not be possible (actually asking tech people) to have a tool allwing the following: - detecting changesets with hotosm hashtags and picking up the username - comparing the username to a list of HOTOSM contributors and stating if it is new or not and already validated for a certain numbers of quality items (like drawing buildings correctly, drawing roads correctly, tagging roads correctly, etc.) - when contributors have not been validated yet, a task is sent to a validation team - one team member picks up the task, check, validate the work of the contributor and contact her/him if some mistakes. A form would be great, with checkboxes for typical errors, and if making a typical one, the contributor would receive in the answer link to the Learning point (there are already quite a few in LearnOSM) dedicated to this error - once done the hotosm contributor quality status for this contributor would be: good for such and such aspects, bad for such and such ones and the latter would then be tasked in the future for validators as soon as this contributor would submit a new changeset Thoughts? Sincerely, Severin On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Nick Allen nick.allen...@gmail.com [7] wrote: Pierre, A help channel or some form social help channel would be good, but in order to ask for help, the mapper needs to realise they are doing something wrong, or dont know how to do something. The new mappers in this thread are consistently asking for someone to check their work, and provide feedback so they know what to do to improve. The validation process is good for this as well as quality control - but it would be nice if we made it easier for the new mapper to receive the comments, and if needed for the validator to pass them. I dont know if it is easily achievable, but perhaps a system where the validators comments are more easily available to the mapper, unless they opt to not receive them. I know that MSF BRC were keen to offer help, and I know that the few mappers that have replied to this thread are asking for this feedback. It would be good if more mappers replied, especially if they are new, so we have an idea as to whether it is worth investigating further. Regards Nick (Tallguy) -- Nick Volunteer Tallguy for https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy [2] Treasurer, website Bonus Ball admin for http://www.6thswanleyscouts.org.uk/ [3] (treasu...@6thswanleyscouts.org.uk [4]) ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org [5] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot [6] Links: -- [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy [3] http://www.6thswanleyscouts.org.uk/ [4] mailto:treasu...@6thswanleyscouts.org.uk [5] mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org [6] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot [7] mailto:nick.allen...@gmail.com ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Validating TM2 - providing feedback to new mappers
To all who have, Thank you for contributing to this thread. Although I had been mapping for several years before I started mapping with HOT, I found my needs were similar to those described by others. I found myself trying to interpret satellite imagery without the benefit of having visited the area. In particular I started to realise that a lot of the mapping was not to do with what you could actually see, but what you could infer from it - highways are continuous despite the fact that trees get in the way. Round things that looked like bushes but had a funny shadow worn ground around their bases were actually round huts, etc. etc. In short, I needed someone to look at my mapping and say something like 'You're getting there, but you need to ...'. I mapped a lot, and nearly gave up because I didn't know if the mapping I was doing was actually any good, or if it was so bad that it was actually a hindrance. Although it's possible to make even more errors if you have never mapped before, I feel that mapping for HOT is different to mapping the boring tarmac brick houses of my home town, where I have the benefit of having walked, cycled driven the area. An 'experienced' mapper may need the feedback as much as a new mapper. I've now stood in front of several groups who wish to learn mapping for HOT, and I have stressed that they can get feedback about their mapping by looking at the validators comments (actually you don't need anything in the way of a comment, just so long as the square is checked and turns green, or is invalidated you get a message.) The instructions go something like (I try to have pretty pictures as well!); 1. On the TM homepage, click in the box marked [] Your projects 2. Go to the stats tab of one of the projects you have completed squares in, and scroll through the list until you find your username - hover the mouse over your username the squares you have marked as complete will be the only ones visible - click on one of the squares that has gone green you will see the comments the validator has left. 3. You need to repeat this for every square you have completed, individually, and 4. You need to repeat this for each project, and for each of the squares in it. ! Taking on board the comments suggestions made by various people earlier in this thread, could someone please make it that I say; Click on the big green button on the TM homepage that says 'Show me the feedback for any of my squares that have been validated', and when you click on it it takes you to a web page with date . Square ID . Validators comment date . Square ID . Validators comment date . Square ID . Validators comment date . Square ID . Validators comment date . Square ID . Validators comment etc Although i like the idea of detailed stats., I think that anyone who manages to get started with HOT is capable of being a very good mapper given the right guidance feedback, and I would not like statistics to stand in the way of that. Thanks for reading. Nick (Tallguy) On 31/08/14 18:47, Dan S wrote: Hi Severin, Sounds like a nice approach. However the first two steps are unneeded - we can detect new users when they mark squares as done, not via changeset hashtags. In my experience newcomers often forget to tag changesets, so your approach would miss many of them - yet we already know their username within the Tasking Manager. Also I'm not keen on the idea of marking users as bad for such and such. It would be better simply to have neutral state plus good for such and such. Best Dan 2014-08-31 8:07 GMT+01:00 Severin Menard severin.men...@gmail.com: Hi all, Thinking aloud, would not be possible (actually asking tech people) to have a tool allwing the following: - detecting changesets with hotosm hashtags and picking up the username - comparing the username to a list of HOTOSM contributors and stating if it is new or not and already validated for a certain numbers of quality items (like drawing buildings correctly, drawing roads correctly, tagging roads correctly, etc.) - when contributors have not been validated yet, a task is sent to a validation team - one team member picks up the task, check, validate the work of the contributor and contact her/him if some mistakes. A form would be great, with checkboxes for typical errors, and if making a typical one, the contributor would receive in the answer link to the Learning point (there are already quite a few in LearnOSM) dedicated to this error - once done the hotosm contributor quality status for this contributor would be: good for such and such aspects, bad for such and such ones and the latter would then be tasked in the future for validators as soon as this contributor would submit a new changeset Thoughts? Sincerely, Severin On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Nick Allen nick.allen...@gmail.com wrote: Pierre, A help channel or some form social help channel would be good, but in order to ask for
Re: [HOT] Validating TM2 - providing feedback to new mappers
Hi, On the subject of validation. As someone who now spends most of their mapping time validating, I think we 'sell' it the wrong way. I only use the validation button in JOSM now if I think I am going to find something, and generally use the HOT-Validate paint Style (Well worth trying if you're a JOSM user, even if you don't validate). But I think even that is too much of a requirement. I have seen some excellent mapping by iD Potlatch users I would like to see some of them carrying out validating - if they are capable of mapping to such a high standard then they are perfectly capable of zooming in to look at others work saying 'yes', 'yes but', or 'no'. I rarely use the 'no' option and to be honest it could just as easily be an experienced mapper because it generally means there is a significant portion of the square not mapped (I like to think the imagery didn't load properly that was why they missed the village entirely!) Mapping = I'd like to see us rewrite the manuals, wiki's, slideshows etc., so they show mapping for HOT needs roads connected, traced at a suitable scale classed more or less correctly (I don't think we should get too hung up about this - its often only when you are looking at an area of several squares in size that you can work out which are the primary, secondary, tertiary etc - get it traced, tag what it looks like make sure that someone with an overview alters the tags later if need be). Buildings square or round and as accurate as they can be within reason. Rivers traced. leisure= common amenity=school where appropriate - anything else specific to the project. Validating= Make sure that Mapping = was done ok. It would be good to offer variety to our mappers validating, if sold correctly, is not difficult can be very rewarding. 99% of the time I'm making comments like 'All looks good, thanks'. Occasionally it's something like 'Looks good, but can you join the roads to each other not the landuse=residential boundary. I've sorted it this time', I worried for a while about sending messages to mappers about ways they could improve, but the feedback I've had from those concerned has been good, and I make sure I only send a message if it's obvious the person is making the same mistake consistently - a point in case being round huts which are not obvious unless someone points them out. (wiki entry about validating http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data if I've interested you). I'd still like a tick box in the TM so that when I want to send my comments to the mapper, I can easily do so. But I don't think that is as important as allowing mappers easier access to the validators comments. Just a few thoughts - by the way, I'd welcome help from anyone who fancies doing more validating! If you'd like it, I'm quite happy to validate your validations until you feel more confident. -- Nick Volunteer 'Tallguy' for https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy Treasurer, website Bonus Ball admin for http://www.6thswanleyscouts.org.uk/ (treasu...@6thswanleyscouts.org.uk mailto:treasu...@6thswanleyscouts.org.uk) ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Validating TM2 - providing feedback to new mappers
Hi all, I have been a bit quiet, just coming back on line after one month recovering form a Motor Bike Crash. Seems I am not as invincible as I thought :) Nick +1 for your comments, I totally agree. I also think and Opt In or Opt Out Check Box Please send me comments on the Task for each User, or On the Users Profile for all Tasks would be of a lot of use. Some users may want feedback whilst some may not. The Validator then knows he is welcome to provide feedback, tips and tricks which is a fantastic way of sharing knowledge. To help police inappropriate Validation Comments, a Report This Validation Message Button could be to be sent to someone in HOT to review so that the system is not abused, as pretty much anyone could can be a Validator. Feedback from Validators provides a fantastic opportunity to learn, especially for new users and the dialog that is created can only be of huge benefit to those people who want it. When I started, I certainly would have asked for feedback. Andrew B gave me a huge amount of help via mumble on all sorts of tips and tricks .. and helped bring me closer to the HOT Community in a lot of ways . Cheers Mark Cheers Mark Regards Mark Cupitt If we change the world, let it bear the mark of our intelligence Hire Me on Freelancer See me on Open StreetMap https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mark_Cupitt See me on LinkedIn http://ph.linkedin.com/in/markcupitt *See me on StackExchange http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/17846/mark-c* === The contents of this email are intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose, copy, distribute, or use the contents of this email. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the email and any attachments. === On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Nick Allen nick.allen...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On the subject of validation. As someone who now spends most of their mapping time validating, I think we 'sell' it the wrong way. I only use the validation button in JOSM now if I think I am going to find something, and generally use the HOT-Validate paint Style (Well worth trying if you're a JOSM user, even if you don't validate). But I think even that is too much of a requirement. I have seen some excellent mapping by iD Potlatch users I would like to see some of them carrying out validating - if they are capable of mapping to such a high standard then they are perfectly capable of zooming in to look at others work saying 'yes', 'yes but', or 'no'. I rarely use the 'no' option and to be honest it could just as easily be an experienced mapper because it generally means there is a significant portion of the square not mapped (I like to think the imagery didn't load properly that was why they missed the village entirely!) Mapping = I'd like to see us rewrite the manuals, wiki's, slideshows etc., so they show mapping for HOT needs roads connected, traced at a suitable scale classed more or less correctly (I don't think we should get too hung up about this - its often only when you are looking at an area of several squares in size that you can work out which are the primary, secondary, tertiary etc - get it traced, tag what it looks like make sure that someone with an overview alters the tags later if need be). Buildings square or round and as accurate as they can be within reason. Rivers traced. leisure= common amenity=school where appropriate - anything else specific to the project. Validating= Make sure that Mapping = was done ok. It would be good to offer variety to our mappers validating, if sold correctly, is not difficult can be very rewarding. 99% of the time I'm making comments like 'All looks good, thanks'. Occasionally it's something like 'Looks good, but can you join the roads to each other not the landuse=residential boundary. I've sorted it this time', I worried for a while about sending messages to mappers about ways they could improve, but the feedback I've had from those concerned has been good, and I make sure I only send a message if it's obvious the person is making the same mistake consistently - a point in case being round huts which are not obvious unless someone points them out. (wiki entry about validating http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data if I've interested you). I'd still like a tick box in the TM so that when I want to send my comments to the mapper, I can easily do so. But I don't think that is as important as allowing mappers easier access to the validators comments. Just a few thoughts - by the way, I'd welcome help from anyone who fancies doing more validating! If you'd
Re: [HOT] Validating TM2 - providing feedback to new mappers
There was a discussion several months ago proposing irc like client for each job. I think embedding synchronous communication for each job is a good approach to providing real-time feedback to those working on a specific project/job. For some prior art, check out MapCraft [0]. Related tickets [1 and 2] [0] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MapCraft [1] https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager/issues/148 [2] https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager/issues/40 On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 8:46 AM, Mark Cupitt markcup...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I have been a bit quiet, just coming back on line after one month recovering form a Motor Bike Crash. Seems I am not as invincible as I thought :) Nick +1 for your comments, I totally agree. I also think and Opt In or Opt Out Check Box Please send me comments on the Task for each User, or On the Users Profile for all Tasks would be of a lot of use. Some users may want feedback whilst some may not. The Validator then knows he is welcome to provide feedback, tips and tricks which is a fantastic way of sharing knowledge. To help police inappropriate Validation Comments, a Report This Validation Message Button could be to be sent to someone in HOT to review so that the system is not abused, as pretty much anyone could can be a Validator. Feedback from Validators provides a fantastic opportunity to learn, especially for new users and the dialog that is created can only be of huge benefit to those people who want it. When I started, I certainly would have asked for feedback. Andrew B gave me a huge amount of help via mumble on all sorts of tips and tricks .. and helped bring me closer to the HOT Community in a lot of ways . Cheers Mark Cheers Mark Regards Mark Cupitt If we change the world, let it bear the mark of our intelligence Hire Me on Freelancer See me on Open StreetMap https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mark_Cupitt See me on LinkedIn http://ph.linkedin.com/in/markcupitt *See me on StackExchange http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/17846/mark-c* === The contents of this email are intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not disclose, copy, distribute, or use the contents of this email. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the email and any attachments. === On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Nick Allen nick.allen...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On the subject of validation. As someone who now spends most of their mapping time validating, I think we 'sell' it the wrong way. I only use the validation button in JOSM now if I think I am going to find something, and generally use the HOT-Validate paint Style (Well worth trying if you're a JOSM user, even if you don't validate). But I think even that is too much of a requirement. I have seen some excellent mapping by iD Potlatch users I would like to see some of them carrying out validating - if they are capable of mapping to such a high standard then they are perfectly capable of zooming in to look at others work saying 'yes', 'yes but', or 'no'. I rarely use the 'no' option and to be honest it could just as easily be an experienced mapper because it generally means there is a significant portion of the square not mapped (I like to think the imagery didn't load properly that was why they missed the village entirely!) Mapping = I'd like to see us rewrite the manuals, wiki's, slideshows etc., so they show mapping for HOT needs roads connected, traced at a suitable scale classed more or less correctly (I don't think we should get too hung up about this - its often only when you are looking at an area of several squares in size that you can work out which are the primary, secondary, tertiary etc - get it traced, tag what it looks like make sure that someone with an overview alters the tags later if need be). Buildings square or round and as accurate as they can be within reason. Rivers traced. leisure= common amenity=school where appropriate - anything else specific to the project. Validating= Make sure that Mapping = was done ok. It would be good to offer variety to our mappers validating, if sold correctly, is not difficult can be very rewarding. 99% of the time I'm making comments like 'All looks good, thanks'. Occasionally it's something like 'Looks good, but can you join the roads to each other not the landuse=residential boundary. I've sorted it this time', I worried for a while about sending messages to mappers about ways they could improve, but the feedback I've had from those concerned has been good, and I make sure I only send a message if it's obvious
Re: [HOT] Validating TM2 - providing feedback to new mappers
On 8/31/2014 10:09 PM, maning sambale wrote: There was a discussion several months ago proposing irc like client for each job. I think embedding synchronous communication for each job is a good approach to providing real-time feedback to those working on a specific project/job. For some prior art, check out MapCraft [0]. Related tickets [1 and 2] [0] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MapCraft [1] https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager/issues/148 [2] https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager/issues/40 I think irc type channel per job might be to few people to help. The traffic in the current #hot irc channel is very sparse as it is. If we could get new people and experienced people together now in the current hot irc channel that would be good progress, if for some reason it turned out to be over crowded we could look at a per project/activation/country channel breakout of some sort. But if things get too fine grained you lose some of the benefit of a group exchange. Most of the questions I see (and have) are not specific to a project or task, but just to being a new mapper in general, which anyone could probably answer. Now I have visions of a josm irc plugin so the irc channel could just be a panel on the left. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
