Re: [HOT] Request to those organising a maperthon. -, validation support

[Martin Noblecourt]

Hi,

I actually like your last idea Blake!
I understand how it can be frustrating for validators like John to see loads of 
new mappers do errors on some projects, we're trying to do our best in capacity 
building when running mapathons but mistakes are always possible.
The closest we can put the validator to the new mapper is the best in my opinion: ideally in the same room 
(which is why we target to get validators during mapathons), or else simultaneously (or almost) if the 
validators are not there... so a way to identify the "main" validators for a task would indeed be 
interesting. Maybe I'm putting the cart before the wheels but having a way for people to "register" 
as validator to a project could be interesting for the projects managers? (and then a button "send a 
message to all validators" on which we can notify of upcoming mapathons :-) )

Finally, let's not forget that mapathons are not only a great way to bring new 
contributors but also to create awareness on OSM amongst people that are not 
familiar with it, including NGO workers and local communities, so it ultimately 
servers the purpose of the HOT community of bringing data to the people needing 
it :-)

Best regards.

Martin


Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 17:33:10 +0200
From: Blake Girardot<bgirar...@gmail.com>
To: Mike Thompson<miketh...@gmail.com>, john whelan
<jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
Cc:"hot@openstreetmap.org"  <hot@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [HOT] Request to those organising a maperthon. -
validation support
Message-ID:<56fe94b6.2040...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed


Hi,

We do have an unused "validation" email group that was created with the
idea that people who were available and interested in doing validations
could share ideas, questions, tips, etc

And people who were running mapathons could easily notify people who
liked to do validation that they were running a mapathon and could use
some validation help during that time (not all mapathons need additional
validators)

I am happy to dust it off and make it easy to join and send
notifications too and make anyone who is interested a manager of the
email group.

It does not quite address Mike's question as to how to know someone(s)
are active and committed to validations on a particular project. But it
could help with that if people who were doing validations for a project
sent a notice to the group with an informative subject line like
"Project 1234 has validators dedicated to it"

Another option for Mike's question is for people who are making an
effort to validate a project contacted the project creator and put a
note in a box at the bottom of the instructions or description that said
something like "This project has active validators, please send a notice
to the validators list if you would like a review of your mapping for an
event or individually"

Anyway, kind of over complicated I know, but some ideas.

cheers
blake


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Re: [HOT] Request to those organising a maperthon. - validation support

[Blake Girardot]

Hi,

We do have an unused "validation" email group that was created with the 
idea that people who were available and interested in doing validations 
could share ideas, questions, tips, etc


And people who were running mapathons could easily notify people who 
liked to do validation that they were running a mapathon and could use 
some validation help during that time (not all mapathons need additional 
validators)


I am happy to dust it off and make it easy to join and send 
notifications too and make anyone who is interested a manager of the 
email group.


It does not quite address Mike's question as to how to know someone(s) 
are active and committed to validations on a particular project. But it 
could help with that if people who were doing validations for a project 
sent a notice to the group with an informative subject line like 
"Project 1234 has validators dedicated to it"


Another option for Mike's question is for people who are making an 
effort to validate a project contacted the project creator and put a 
note in a box at the bottom of the instructions or description that said 
something like "This project has active validators, please send a notice 
to the validators list if you would like a review of your mapping for an 
event or individually"


Anyway, kind of over complicated I know, but some ideas.

cheers
blake



On 4/1/2016 4:55 PM, Mike Thompson wrote:



On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 6:51 PM, john whelan > wrote:

If you notice that the project you're planning to use has an active
validator please if possible give them some warning before your
maperthon.

How do we tell if a project has an "active validator" other than looking
at the tiles that have been validated?

Mike




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Re: [HOT] Request to those organising a maperthon.

[john whelan]

Put it this way if you look at a project that is 5% done and all the tiles
are green you may assume there is a validator lurking on it especially if
its the same person who has validated the tiles.

Cheerio John

On 1 April 2016 at 10:55, Mike Thompson  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 6:51 PM, john whelan 
> wrote:
>
>> If you notice that the project you're planning to use has an active
>> validator please if possible give them some warning before your maperthon.
>>
> How do we tell if a project has an "active validator" other than looking
> at the tiles that have been validated?
>
> Mike
>
>>
>>
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Re: [HOT] Request to those organising a maperthon.

[Mike Thompson]

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 6:51 PM, john whelan  wrote:

> If you notice that the project you're planning to use has an active
> validator please if possible give them some warning before your maperthon.
>
How do we tell if a project has an "active validator" other than looking at
the tiles that have been validated?

Mike

>
>
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Re: [HOT] Request to those organising a maperthon.

[Henning Bolz]

> It might be good if we set up a system to make it easier for validators and event organizers to find each other?

 

Hello Joost, Hello John,

 

that would be great!

I helped out with "live" validation on several mapathons, in most cases without even knowing the organisers because i found the mapapthon by coincidence. Some kind of central announcement for mapathons would be very helpful, _including_ the HOT task numbers that are being worked on. 

  To ensure an early effect of the validation, organisers of a mapathon should also inform new mappers about the message system of the TM. The faster they read the feedback, the better.

 

Best regards

 

Henning (hebolz)


 

 

 

 

 

Gesendet: Freitag, 01. April 2016 um 09:46 Uhr
Von: "joost schouppe" <joost.schou...@gmail.com>
An: "john whelan" <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
Cc: "hot@openstreetmap.org" <hot@openstreetmap.org>
Betreff: Re: [HOT] Request to those organising a maperthon.


Yes, that first version with letters written in blood was a bit over the top. Versions six is wonderful though.
 

Small tiles are always a good idea for new mappers, as it is motivating to be able to finish a tile. However, I often do see mappers forgetting to mark their tiles as finished. So I'm going to focus more on that at future events.

 


We had someone remote validating by chance at one of our events, and that was really useful. But mapathons tend to focus on "empty" projects, as new mappers get confused if they choose a tile which is badly mapped but not marked as validated - which does happen a lot. So the chance of finding a validator active there is quite small.


 

It might be good if we set up a system to make it easier for validators and event organizers to find each other? Newer organizers might not come here to announce their event. And even putting them in the calendar isn't very obvious. The most simple thing I can think of is to put "contact the HOT mailing list once you've set a date and task, to see if someone might do some live validation". What would you suggest?

This is a very practical question, as we're helping out a national organisation of universities pull off a mapathon in 7 universities simultaneously. See http://www.internationalmapyear.be/mapathon.php

 


 
2016-04-01 2:51 GMT+02:00 john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>:



If you notice that the project you're planning to use has an active validator please if possible give them some warning before your maperthon.  Finding a dozen tiles suddenly mapped by new mappers can be wonderful but finding tiles marked done by a mapper who has not actually added anything when there are a dozen settlements unmapped on the first, then settlements but no highways at all on the second one examined does tend to dump on the validator.

If there is a bit of prior warning sometimes additional resources can be found to validate.
 

Secondly for new mappers please split the tiles as much as possible.  That gives the validator a chance to correct the mappers before they repeat the errors too many times.
 

So far on this particular project groups of buildings have been tagged building=residential rather than landuse=residential, then we have landuse=residential, great but with the additional tag of name=houses so be nice and verify your training guides are simple and clear to understand.

Yes I know I'm supposed to be polite and say everything is wonderful, this is the very polite version the first five versions have been heavily censored.
 

Many Thanks

John


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Re: [HOT] Request to those organising a maperthon.

[joost schouppe]

Yes, that first version with letters written in blood was a bit over the
top. Versions six is wonderful though.

Small tiles are always a good idea for new mappers, as it is motivating to
be able to finish a tile. However, I often do see mappers forgetting to
mark their tiles as finished. So I'm going to focus more on that at future
events.

We had someone remote validating by chance at one of our events, and that
was really useful. But mapathons tend to focus on "empty" projects, as new
mappers get confused if they choose a tile which is badly mapped but not
marked as validated - which does happen a lot. So the chance of finding a
validator active there is quite small.

It might be good if we set up a system to make it easier for validators and
event organizers to find each other? Newer organizers might not come here
to announce their event. And even putting them in the calendar isn't very
obvious. The most simple thing I can think of is to put "contact the HOT
mailing list once you've set a date and task, to see if someone might do
some live validation". What would you suggest?
This is a very practical question, as we're helping out a national
organisation of universities pull off a mapathon in 7 universities
simultaneously. See http://www.internationalmapyear.be/mapathon.php


2016-04-01 2:51 GMT+02:00 john whelan :

> If you notice that the project you're planning to use has an active
> validator please if possible give them some warning before your maperthon.
> Finding a dozen tiles suddenly mapped by new mappers can be wonderful but
> finding tiles marked done by a mapper who has not actually added anything
> when there are a dozen settlements unmapped on the first, then settlements
> but no highways at all on the second one examined does tend to dump on the
> validator.
> If there is a bit of prior warning sometimes additional resources can be
> found to validate.
>
> Secondly for new mappers please split the tiles as much as possible.  That
> gives the validator a chance to correct the mappers before they repeat the
> errors too many times.
>
> So far on this particular project groups of buildings have been tagged
> building=residential rather than landuse=residential, then we have
> landuse=residential, great but with the additional tag of name=houses so be
> nice and verify your training guides are simple and clear to understand.
>
> Yes I know I'm supposed to be polite and say everything is wonderful, this
> is the very polite version the first five versions have been heavily
> censored.
>
> Many Thanks
>
> John
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
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>


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[HOT] Request to those organising a maperthon.

[john whelan]

If you notice that the project you're planning to use has an active
validator please if possible give them some warning before your maperthon.
Finding a dozen tiles suddenly mapped by new mappers can be wonderful but
finding tiles marked done by a mapper who has not actually added anything
when there are a dozen settlements unmapped on the first, then settlements
but no highways at all on the second one examined does tend to dump on the
validator.
If there is a bit of prior warning sometimes additional resources can be
found to validate.

Secondly for new mappers please split the tiles as much as possible.  That
gives the validator a chance to correct the mappers before they repeat the
errors too many times.

So far on this particular project groups of buildings have been tagged
building=residential rather than landuse=residential, then we have
landuse=residential, great but with the additional tag of name=houses so be
nice and verify your training guides are simple and clear to understand.

Yes I know I'm supposed to be polite and say everything is wonderful, this
is the very polite version the first five versions have been heavily
censored.

Many Thanks

John
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