Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591
Thanks for these discussion here. Very helpful. -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Task-manager-description-instructions-591-tp5828721p5829172.html Sent from the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap (HOT) mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591
Thanks sharing useful information. I've bookmarked them. Best, - Enock twitter: @Enock4seth enockseth.blogspot.com | [[User:Enock4seth]] On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 6:16 AM, omlashe akarii...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for these discussion here. Very helpful. -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Task-manager-description-instructions-591-tp5828721p5829172.html Sent from the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap (HOT) mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591
Absolutely, please help yourselves!Also, the lovely people at CartONG did some translations into French, which they will be uploading to the drive soon, so look out for that... The resources and workflows have been developed by the British Red Cross mapping team and a number of the HOTties who support the Missing Maps in London (to give credit where it's due). Cheers,Pete Pete MastersMissing Maps Project Coordinator MSF UK+44 7921 781 518 @pedrito1414 @theMissingMaps facebook.com/MissingMapsProject Although I check emails more frequently, I work two days a week on the Missing Ma ps Project if you want to catch me, see this calendar .-Blake Girardot bgirar...@gmail.com wrote: - To: Pete Masters pete.mast...@london.msf.orgFrom: Blake Girardot bgirar...@gmail.com Date: 04/01/2015 11:16PMCc: Hot List hot@openstreetmap.org, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591 Wow, great resources. I was looking for something like these for a mapping party recently. Thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing them!Would you mind if we put a few in the wiki or on LearnOSM with reference back to the source?cheers,BlakeOn 1/4/2015 5:30 PM, Pete Masters wrote: Hi all, this is an interesting thread for me as we realised pretty quickly at the Missing Maps mapathons that we needed to work out how to improve quality, while keeping the number of new mappers attending high. I'd like to share some experiences, but apologies if you've heard them before. I've only been on the HOT list since June... Context talks and tutorials: We have short talks at the beginning to introduce mappers to the country they are to map. This is immediately followed by a tutorial from a HOTty for new mappers (using iD). These tutorials have been vital since the first Missing Maps mapathon we did in July and give the newbies a great place to start. However, it is not uncommon for newbies to forget fundemental things very quickly. The tutorial from November mapathon is here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Q2GqxWXyyOsP7t7GOrZAMttg4NbpK-xe5iB8v4iOeno/edit#slide=id.p Table top resources: The Maps Team at the British Red Cross have developed a load of different printable materials to go with the mapathons. There are various materials here and they help mappers overcome some of the more frequent problems they encounter. These are kept on google drive and anyone is more than welcome to take what they think might be useful. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_hW0KstPK1AenJDbDRFemtuMkUauthuser=0 If you do develop any of these materials, please do make a new folder and share them back on the same drive. Images: We have also tried collecting images of the places being mapped to help mappers interpret what they are seeing on the satellite imagery. This has only recently been piloted, but some mappers have said it is useful, especially where traditional building techniques are used that make buildings hard to identify by someone from the UK! Pinterest boards can be found here: http://www.pinterest.com/MissingMaps/ Validator tables: In the last couple of events, we have set aside a validator table and invited the more committed, regular Missing Maps attendees to learn validation (Laura who started this email chain is one of them!). They sit with one or two experienced validators and review the squares being done by people in the room. This has two benefits. Firstly, we are (hopefully) training up some more validators for HOT tasks (as they seem to be in short supply) and secondly, as these validators spot repeat errors, they can actually go and find the mapper in the room and help them put it right. Last thing (and apologies for the length of this), on John's thoughts on multiple passes for tasks... We have tried a two stage tasking process when tracing in the Bangassou region of CAR. Because the area has a lot of small villages spread over a wide area, we did one task (using large squares) to trace the road networks. Then in the second task, we identified residential areas and fed them into the tasking manager as a geojson and set up building tracing using small squares. The feedback we got suggested that this was an efficient way of handling an area of this size. Tasks Roads : http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/749 Buildings : http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/748 Right, sorry for going on for so long. Look forward to more chat on this subject... Pete *Pete Masters* Missing Maps Project Coordinator MSF UK +44 7921 781 518 _@pedrito1414_ https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps _@theMissingMaps_ https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps _facebook.com/MissingMapsProject _ https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject Although I check emails more frequently, I work two days a week on the Missing Ma ps Project if you want to catch me, _see this calendar_ https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=""> . -Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: -
Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591
What a great discussion, thanks Laura for your meaningful question and thanks to you all for your inputs. Laura: As a summary of what Blake explained, you should use both imageries for project #591. 1. First use Bing as a reference for alignment and do the first pass with most of the mapping; 2. Second use Worldview - to be aligned on Bing - as it is more recent. Use it for an update pass mapping (it should be a few more or less buildings mostly). Pete: your message is not lengthy, rather it is informative and extremely useful. Interesting feedback and great resources. Thanks for sharing them too! John and others, regarding multi-pass mapping workflow: I agree this is a neat idea and we should consider it, maybe try it for a large-scale mapping project without emergency first. ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591
Wow, great resources. I was looking for something like these for a mapping party recently. Thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing them! Would you mind if we put a few in the wiki or on LearnOSM with reference back to the source? cheers, Blake On 1/4/2015 5:30 PM, Pete Masters wrote: Hi all, this is an interesting thread for me as we realised pretty quickly at the Missing Maps mapathons that we needed to work out how to improve quality, while keeping the number of new mappers attending high. I'd like to share some experiences, but apologies if you've heard them before. I've only been on the HOT list since June... Context talks and tutorials: We have short talks at the beginning to introduce mappers to the country they are to map. This is immediately followed by a tutorial from a HOTty for new mappers (using iD). These tutorials have been vital since the first Missing Maps mapathon we did in July and give the newbies a great place to start. However, it is not uncommon for newbies to forget fundemental things very quickly. The tutorial from November mapathon is here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Q2GqxWXyyOsP7t7GOrZAMttg4NbpK-xe5iB8v4iOeno/edit#slide=id.p Table top resources: The Maps Team at the British Red Cross have developed a load of different printable materials to go with the mapathons. There are various materials here and they help mappers overcome some of the more frequent problems they encounter. These are kept on google drive and anyone is more than welcome to take what they think might be useful. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_hW0KstPK1AenJDbDRFemtuMkUauthuser=0 If you do develop any of these materials, please do make a new folder and share them back on the same drive. Images: We have also tried collecting images of the places being mapped to help mappers interpret what they are seeing on the satellite imagery. This has only recently been piloted, but some mappers have said it is useful, especially where traditional building techniques are used that make buildings hard to identify by someone from the UK! Pinterest boards can be found here: http://www.pinterest.com/MissingMaps/ Validator tables: In the last couple of events, we have set aside a validator table and invited the more committed, regular Missing Maps attendees to learn validation (Laura who started this email chain is one of them!). They sit with one or two experienced validators and review the squares being done by people in the room. This has two benefits. Firstly, we are (hopefully) training up some more validators for HOT tasks (as they seem to be in short supply) and secondly, as these validators spot repeat errors, they can actually go and find the mapper in the room and help them put it right. Last thing (and apologies for the length of this), on John's thoughts on multiple passes for tasks... We have tried a two stage tasking process when tracing in the Bangassou region of CAR. Because the area has a lot of small villages spread over a wide area, we did one task (using large squares) to trace the road networks. Then in the second task, we identified residential areas and fed them into the tasking manager as a geojson and set up building tracing using small squares. The feedback we got suggested that this was an efficient way of handling an area of this size. Tasks Roads : http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/749 Buildings : http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/748 Right, sorry for going on for so long. Look forward to more chat on this subject... Pete *Pete Masters* Missing Maps Project Coordinator MSF UK +44 7921 781 518 _@pedrito1414_ https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps _@theMissingMaps_ https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps _facebook.com/MissingMapsProject _ https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject Although I check emails more frequently, I work two days a week on the Missing Ma ps Project – if you want to catch me, _see this calendar_ https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=ui161p5fak6u6h3oq23824cgj0%40group.calendar.google.comctz=Europe/London. -Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr wrote: - To: bgirar...@gmail.com bgirar...@gmail.com, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com From: Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr Date: 02/01/2015 07:03PM Cc: hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591 It certainly simplifies to first trace the major roads. We did sometimes trace in priority these roads, then landuse before mapping more in detail. But this is Crisis management and we seldom have time to proceed this way. We sometimes try to have the more experienced mappers to take care of such tasks. One area were I see that we can make progress controlling the mapping qality is with the Mapathons. There were many Mapathons this fall, either for the Ebola outbreak or for the Missing Maps project. This brings a lot of new contributors learning how to map, making a lot of mistakes that need later to be corrected. A Mapathon Guide would help
Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591
Hi Charlotte, Welcome :) Also in the comments sometimes people put the offsets, although note I am not aware of a way to feed iD numerical offsets (I used iD for a day or so then went to JOSM) I usually align to the osm features as best as possible as this *should* result in the most accurate atleast for manual navigable maps But be careful, the worldview and bing imagery are at different angles (I'm new to osm hot and osm mapping too and that one bit me on the bottom about a few days to a week ago). Results in structures having wrong shapes from misleading shadows, etc Nb I am new too so if I've made some wrong assumptions please do let me know 73s, Max - mbainrot On 03/01/2015 6:41 am, Blake Girardot bgirar...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Charlotte, In iD: Click on the Background settings (icon looks like stack of papers). At the bottom of the slide out panel click the arrow next to Fix Alignment Then use the 4 arrows that show up to move the background image around and get it lined up. As I said, usually, if Bing is the reference you draw a few things exactly as show on Bing, then Background to switch back to the custom imagery and then fix alignment to move the custom imagery to match then things you drew over the Bing imagery. It is hard to find, I had to ask as well for iD. Cheers, Blake On 1/2/2015 8:24 PM, Charlotte Wolter wrote: Blake, How does one change the alignment of imagery with ID? I've been mapping with ID for over a year, and I never heard of that. This is just what Laura is talking about. We need plain and simple guidance. When both the Bing and Worldview imagery were available in Mali, I used only the Bing imagery, because it was clearly superior (no huge pixels), and I moved objects as necessary to align with Bing. Charlotte On 1/2/2015 3:14 PM, Laura Green wrote: Might someone be able to clarify the instructions shown on the HOT page please? I *think* it means (for JOSM users, not sure if it applies to ID): 1) please map roads, streets, buildings, walls, water streams and canals. 2) disregard the automatic imagery that downloads when you contribute, download Bing imagery instead. 3) Bing imagery is now aligned correctly (as of date xxx), so please realign or redraw vector data to match the Bing imagery. This applies to ID and JOSM. The task will load WorldView imagery for either editor. I think you have the directions basically correct, but as I read them now my understanding is this: 1. Start editing a task. 2. Load the Bing imagery (now 2013 images). (In JOSM do not use the alignment database plugin settings, they are no long needed for Bing imagery) 3. Make sure some buildings and roads are mapped correctly using the Bing imagery. Move or map some new ones to match Bing. 4. Then load the WorldView imagery (2014 imagery). 5. Background align the WorldView imagery to match what you just mapped in using the Bing imagery if needed. 6. Carry on mapping using the WorldView imagery after you have aligned it or checked its alignment. Discussion: Just make sure you use the Bing imagery as the reference. So you would not do any background image alignment with the Bing imagery. If buildings or roads were not well matched to the Bing imagery you could redraw them to match the Bing imagery. Once you have drawn some buildings and roads using the Bing imagery, you would then display the WorldView imagery and do the background image alignment to make the WorldView imagery match up with what you drew using the Bing imagery if that is needed. That process is what it means to use the Bing imagery as the reference imagery: You map some with Bing, then align any other imagery to what you mapped using the Bing imagery. ...but I may be misinterpreting the description/instructions. I’d like to comment generally about the hot task manager descriptions/instructions: Unless indicated as Expert only at the very beginning of an activation page, I'm assuming all activations are for the general public to contribute to? The whys and wherefores and technical information I feel are often getting in the way of plain and simple guidance as to what is required, so people can just get on with it, and not have to hunt for the pertinent information. Plainly worded bullet points would be ideal. Any nice to know information could be provided below this. You are right on each point here. It is a challenge though with many different people creating directions for Projects. It is too easy to forget not everyone knows what vector data is. And there is the issue that not everyone is a native speaker of the language the directions might be written in. We are working to create some standard sets of directions in English for things like drawing buildings and roads, aligning imagery, etc that a Project creator could , optionally, choose to use. That will help with some of the inconsistent directions. Thank you
Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591
It certainly simplifies to first trace the major roads. We did sometimes trace in priority these roads, then landuse before mapping more in detail. But this is Crisis management and we seldom have time to proceed this way. We sometimes try to have the more experienced mappers to take care of such tasks. One area were I see that we can make progress controlling the mapping qality is with the Mapathons. There were many Mapathons this fall, either for the Ebola outbreak or for the Missing Maps project. This brings a lot of new contributors learning how to map, making a lot of mistakes that need later to be corrected. A Mapathon Guide would help to provide tools for the organizers to take care of the quality of the data and exchange with the participants to realize the various mistakes and the good practices (ie. Imagery interpretation, geometry, tags, etc.). This would be also more stimulating for these new contributors and help to keep more of them on the long term. A tool like http://overpass-api.de/achavi/ could help. Some Overpass queries would also let monitor various layers such as buildings, landuse, roads. This would both show the progress made and highlight what should be corrected. Pierre De : Blake Girardot bgirar...@gmail.com À : john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com Cc : hot@openstreetmap.org hot@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Vendredi 2 janvier 2015 10h57 Objet : Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591 On 1/2/2015 3:41 PM, john whelan wrote: How can we make the best use of what we have? I wonder if some sort of work flow might be better. Pass 1, do the major roads and towns / larger villages, Pass 2 rivers, pass 3 tracks, pass 4 forests etc. Perhaps rivers should come first? Yes, this is for sure a good idea. Difficult to do in practice, but a good idea. Certify the mappers, self certification would be fine but a small training course this is how to map a road, this is how to map a village, this is how to map a river, this is how to map a building (JOSM building tool?). Again, a very good idea, and the Training WG is considering something like this. None of the typical mapping tasks are difficult to do, but a little bit of specific training, like 30 mins worth, can make a huge difference between something that is mapped and something that is well mapped. It would really be great if we had a small training programing of some sort, I think it could all be done on line with text and images. Again, the Training WG is working on this idea so if anyone is interested in helping with it please let us (training wg) know. Or we could run online workshops for an hour or so to do mapping training. At this point I have done 8 or 9 online training sessions and they work out pretty well (I think :). I have also been very lucky and received online training from Andrew Buck and Pierre Béland which was immensely helpful. At the moment we seem to have a number of different people going over the same ground mapping the same things which to me is a waste of resources and no real agreement as to when a tile is complete, ie no service level agreement. I've even seen a building mapped over a building. Yes and no about the waste of resources. The system is designed so that multiple eyes will look at the mapping. The obvious version of that is the validation process, but even that needs multiple passes to make sure things are validated correctly. Project managers can validate the validations and experienced mappers, currently self-selected, can also validate validations. But multiple projects over the same area for either updates to imagery or different mapping focuses (roads, waterways, etc) will lead to validation of previous validations as well so there is a real benefit to what seems like a waste of resources. Just 2 passes over an area (initial mapping + validation) is not enough to generate the highest quality data possible. In my experience so far a minimum of 3 passes is needed to be sure you are getting high quality data and the 2nd and 3rd passes are almost as much work as the first pass. Project managers or local OSM groups often give the mapping 3rd and 4th passes to correct and refine the initial mapping data as well. With a simple and short training program for different types of mapping things would improve some. Thanks for the thoughts John. cheers blake ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591
Hi Charlotte, In iD: Click on the Background settings (icon looks like stack of papers). At the bottom of the slide out panel click the arrow next to Fix Alignment Then use the 4 arrows that show up to move the background image around and get it lined up. As I said, usually, if Bing is the reference you draw a few things exactly as show on Bing, then Background to switch back to the custom imagery and then fix alignment to move the custom imagery to match then things you drew over the Bing imagery. It is hard to find, I had to ask as well for iD. Cheers, Blake On 1/2/2015 8:24 PM, Charlotte Wolter wrote: Blake, How does one change the alignment of imagery with ID? I've been mapping with ID for over a year, and I never heard of that. This is just what Laura is talking about. We need plain and simple guidance. When both the Bing and Worldview imagery were available in Mali, I used only the Bing imagery, because it was clearly superior (no huge pixels), and I moved objects as necessary to align with Bing. Charlotte On 1/2/2015 3:14 PM, Laura Green wrote: Might someone be able to clarify the instructions shown on the HOT page please? I *think* it means (for JOSM users, not sure if it applies to ID): 1) please map roads, streets, buildings, walls, water streams and canals. 2) disregard the automatic imagery that downloads when you contribute, download Bing imagery instead. 3) Bing imagery is now aligned correctly (as of date xxx), so please realign or redraw vector data to match the Bing imagery. This applies to ID and JOSM. The task will load WorldView imagery for either editor. I think you have the directions basically correct, but as I read them now my understanding is this: 1. Start editing a task. 2. Load the Bing imagery (now 2013 images). (In JOSM do not use the alignment database plugin settings, they are no long needed for Bing imagery) 3. Make sure some buildings and roads are mapped correctly using the Bing imagery. Move or map some new ones to match Bing. 4. Then load the WorldView imagery (2014 imagery). 5. Background align the WorldView imagery to match what you just mapped in using the Bing imagery if needed. 6. Carry on mapping using the WorldView imagery after you have aligned it or checked its alignment. Discussion: Just make sure you use the Bing imagery as the reference. So you would not do any background image alignment with the Bing imagery. If buildings or roads were not well matched to the Bing imagery you could redraw them to match the Bing imagery. Once you have drawn some buildings and roads using the Bing imagery, you would then display the WorldView imagery and do the background image alignment to make the WorldView imagery match up with what you drew using the Bing imagery if that is needed. That process is what it means to use the Bing imagery as the reference imagery: You map some with Bing, then align any other imagery to what you mapped using the Bing imagery. ...but I may be misinterpreting the description/instructions. I’d like to comment generally about the hot task manager descriptions/instructions: Unless indicated as Expert only at the very beginning of an activation page, I'm assuming all activations are for the general public to contribute to? The whys and wherefores and technical information I feel are often getting in the way of plain and simple guidance as to what is required, so people can just get on with it, and not have to hunt for the pertinent information. Plainly worded bullet points would be ideal. Any nice to know information could be provided below this. You are right on each point here. It is a challenge though with many different people creating directions for Projects. It is too easy to forget not everyone knows what vector data is. And there is the issue that not everyone is a native speaker of the language the directions might be written in. We are working to create some standard sets of directions in English for things like drawing buildings and roads, aligning imagery, etc that a Project creator could , optionally, choose to use. That will help with some of the inconsistent directions. Thank you very much for helping map and please let us know if you have any further questions. cheers, Blake Laura Green osm: LollyMay ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591
Blake, How does one change the alignment of imagery with ID? I've been mapping with ID for over a year, and I never heard of that. This is just what Laura is talking about. We need plain and simple guidance. When both the Bing and Worldview imagery were available in Mali, I used only the Bing imagery, because it was clearly superior (no huge pixels), and I moved objects as necessary to align with Bing. Charlotte On 1/2/2015 3:14 PM, Laura Green wrote: Might someone be able to clarify the instructions shown on the HOT page please? I *think* it means (for JOSM users, not sure if it applies to ID): 1) please map roads, streets, buildings, walls, water streams and canals. 2) disregard the automatic imagery that downloads when you contribute, download Bing imagery instead. 3) Bing imagery is now aligned correctly (as of date xxx), so please realign or redraw vector data to match the Bing imagery. This applies to ID and JOSM. The task will load WorldView imagery for either editor. I think you have the directions basically correct, but as I read them now my understanding is this: 1. Start editing a task. 2. Load the Bing imagery (now 2013 images). (In JOSM do not use the alignment database plugin settings, they are no long needed for Bing imagery) 3. Make sure some buildings and roads are mapped correctly using the Bing imagery. Move or map some new ones to match Bing. 4. Then load the WorldView imagery (2014 imagery). 5. Background align the WorldView imagery to match what you just mapped in using the Bing imagery if needed. 6. Carry on mapping using the WorldView imagery after you have aligned it or checked its alignment. Discussion: Just make sure you use the Bing imagery as the reference. So you would not do any background image alignment with the Bing imagery. If buildings or roads were not well matched to the Bing imagery you could redraw them to match the Bing imagery. Once you have drawn some buildings and roads using the Bing imagery, you would then display the WorldView imagery and do the background image alignment to make the WorldView imagery match up with what you drew using the Bing imagery if that is needed. That process is what it means to use the Bing imagery as the reference imagery: You map some with Bing, then align any other imagery to what you mapped using the Bing imagery. ...but I may be misinterpreting the description/instructions. Iâd like to comment generally about the hot task manager descriptions/instructions: Unless indicated as Expert only at the very beginning of an activation page, I'm assuming all activations are for the general public to contribute to? The whys and wherefores and technical information I feel are often getting in the way of plain and simple guidance as to what is required, so people can just get on with it, and not have to hunt for the pertinent information. Plainly worded bullet points would be ideal. Any nice to know information could be provided below this. You are right on each point here. It is a challenge though with many different people creating directions for Projects. It is too easy to forget not everyone knows what vector data is. And there is the issue that not everyone is a native speaker of the language the directions might be written in. We are working to create some standard sets of directions in English for things like drawing buildings and roads, aligning imagery, etc that a Project creator could , optionally, choose to use. That will help with some of the inconsistent directions. Thank you very much for helping map and please let us know if you have any further questions. cheers, Blake Laura Green osm: LollyMay ___ HOT mailing list mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.orgHOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.orgHOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591
On 1/2/2015 3:41 PM, john whelan wrote: How can we make the best use of what we have? I wonder if some sort of work flow might be better. Pass 1, do the major roads and towns / larger villages, Pass 2 rivers, pass 3 tracks, pass 4 forests etc. Perhaps rivers should come first? Yes, this is for sure a good idea. Difficult to do in practice, but a good idea. Certify the mappers, self certification would be fine but a small training course this is how to map a road, this is how to map a village, this is how to map a river, this is how to map a building (JOSM building tool?). Again, a very good idea, and the Training WG is considering something like this. None of the typical mapping tasks are difficult to do, but a little bit of specific training, like 30 mins worth, can make a huge difference between something that is mapped and something that is well mapped. It would really be great if we had a small training programing of some sort, I think it could all be done on line with text and images. Again, the Training WG is working on this idea so if anyone is interested in helping with it please let us (training wg) know. Or we could run online workshops for an hour or so to do mapping training. At this point I have done 8 or 9 online training sessions and they work out pretty well (I think :). I have also been very lucky and received online training from Andrew Buck and Pierre Béland which was immensely helpful. At the moment we seem to have a number of different people going over the same ground mapping the same things which to me is a waste of resources and no real agreement as to when a tile is complete, ie no service level agreement. I've even seen a building mapped over a building. Yes and no about the waste of resources. The system is designed so that multiple eyes will look at the mapping. The obvious version of that is the validation process, but even that needs multiple passes to make sure things are validated correctly. Project managers can validate the validations and experienced mappers, currently self-selected, can also validate validations. But multiple projects over the same area for either updates to imagery or different mapping focuses (roads, waterways, etc) will lead to validation of previous validations as well so there is a real benefit to what seems like a waste of resources. Just 2 passes over an area (initial mapping + validation) is not enough to generate the highest quality data possible. In my experience so far a minimum of 3 passes is needed to be sure you are getting high quality data and the 2nd and 3rd passes are almost as much work as the first pass. Project managers or local OSM groups often give the mapping 3rd and 4th passes to correct and refine the initial mapping data as well. With a simple and short training program for different types of mapping things would improve some. Thanks for the thoughts John. cheers blake ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591
Just a comment on what is required, If its HOT then I assume there is normally some urgency and that implies a time frame. We don't have unlimited resources, they might be free but knowledgeable mappers are not unlimited. How can we make the best use of what we have? I wonder if some sort of work flow might be better. Pass 1, do the major roads and towns / larger villages, Pass 2 rivers, pass 3 tracks, pass 4 forests etc. Perhaps rivers should come first? Certify the mappers, self certification would be fine but a small training course this is how to map a road, this is how to map a village, this is how to map a river, this is how to map a building (JOSM building tool?). At the moment we seem to have a number of different people going over the same ground mapping the same things which to me is a waste of resources and no real agreement as to when a tile is complete, ie no service level agreement. I've even seen a building mapped over a building. Cheerio John Cheerio John On 2 January 2015 at 09:14, Laura Green lolly...@gmail.com wrote: Hoping this is the right forum for this question and comment: I'm trying to contribute to #591 South Sudan Crisis, Cholera outbreak in Juba, mapping with WorldView-2 imagery. I'm not sure I understand the instructions, especially regarding the imagery. Might someone be able to clarify the instructions shown on the HOT page please? I *think* it means (for JOSM users, not sure if it applies to ID): 1) please map roads, streets, buildings, walls, water streams and canals. 2) disregard the automatic imagery that downloads when you contribute, download Bing imagery instead. 3) Bing imagery is now aligned correctly (as of date xxx), so please realign or redraw vector data to match the Bing imagery. ...but I may be misinterpreting the description/instructions. I’d like to comment generally about the hot task manager descriptions/instructions: Unless indicated as Expert only at the very beginning of an activation page, I'm assuming all activations are for the general public to contribute to? The whys and wherefores and technical information I feel are often getting in the way of plain and simple guidance as to what is required, so people can just get on with it, and not have to hunt for the pertinent information. Plainly worded bullet points would be ideal. Any nice to know information could be provided below this. Laura Green osm: LollyMay ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
[HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591
Hoping this is the right forum for this question and comment: I'm trying to contribute to #591 South Sudan Crisis, Cholera outbreak in Juba, mapping with WorldView-2 imagery. I'm not sure I understand the instructions, especially regarding the imagery. Might someone be able to clarify the instructions shown on the HOT page please? I *think* it means (for JOSM users, not sure if it applies to ID): 1) please map roads, streets, buildings, walls, water streams and canals. 2) disregard the automatic imagery that downloads when you contribute, download Bing imagery instead. 3) Bing imagery is now aligned correctly (as of date xxx), so please realign or redraw vector data to match the Bing imagery. ...but I may be misinterpreting the description/instructions. I’d like to comment generally about the hot task manager descriptions/instructions: Unless indicated as Expert only at the very beginning of an activation page, I'm assuming all activations are for the general public to contribute to? The whys and wherefores and technical information I feel are often getting in the way of plain and simple guidance as to what is required, so people can just get on with it, and not have to hunt for the pertinent information. Plainly worded bullet points would be ideal. Any nice to know information could be provided below this. Laura Green osm: LollyMay ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Task manager description/instructions #591
from : Laura Green I *think* it means (for JOSM users, not sure if it applies to ID): 2) disregard the automatic imagery that downloads when you contribute, download Bing imagery instead. Yes, this applies for JOSM. 3) Bing imagery is now aligned correctly (as of date xxx), so please realign or redraw vector data to match the Bing imagery. I am not familiar with ID, but the wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Using_Imageryindicates: ID Press 'b' in when editor is open (or click icon with layers). Then click text align imagery and you will see 4 arrows to calibrate offset. Pierre ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
