Re: [HOT] Waterway Tags
Hi Blake and Russell, thanks...you have pointed me to the lists I need to approach regarding this. Great help and saved me a lot of nosing around. I understand some of the problems of waterways. As Senior Cartographer for Philip's World Reference Atlases I had to find a happy medium trying to make one size fit all so that each geographic feature is represented the same throughout the atlas even though it may be called something different with slightly adjusted definitions in each country. The rendering on the map is a lot easier to sort than the tagging where each person is looking for their local name on the tag. A wadi/gulch/dry water channel/arroyo/wash or whatever it is called can still have the same symbol to depict it. You picked up my direction..that there is two separate issues here... the visual depiction on the map. and the tagging to assist electronic addressing (tying the tag to the different names so that the search picks up wadi, or whatever is chosen, as being all of those things despite slight variations in definitions) I have now signed up to the tagging lists so I can keep up with what is happening there and can also approach the correct people regarding the rendering on the map. Russell...your pointer was fine and I did quickly find the archived thread which is relevant to my proposal. Again...thanks for the help. On 22 January 2015 at 00:37, Russell Deffner russell.deff...@hotosm.org wrote: I probably should have specified the thread is titled waterway=wadi problem and this link is to the first (I think) message in the thread: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2015-January/020946.html =Russ ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Waterway Tags
El Jueves 22. enero 2015 01.18.52 Blake Girardot escribió: As to the tagging suggestion, Ralph, I _think_ the current best practice is to tag an intermittent stream or river like this: waterway=river (or stream) intermittent=yes or seasonal=yes I think we should follow the example of the abandoned: namespace, as in http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Key:abandoned , and use something like: intermmitent:waterway=river or seasonal:waterway=river This instantly solves the problem of roads that can be driven only on dry seasons: seasonal:road=secondary And solves the semantics problem of which aspects of the feature are seasonal and which are not (e.g. the name of a waterway or road doesn't change through seasons) As this has already been done to abandoned and disused features, I guess that all the data conversion tools are ready for something like it. Cheers, -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es i...@geonerd.org ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Waterway Tags
I think we should follow the example of the abandoned: namespace, as in http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Key:abandoned , and use something like: I would suggest to discuss this first on tagging list, especially now that they are already discussing intermittent waterway. Eric ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Waterway Tags
I have difficulties with water I must confess. I'm mapping from a satellite image taken an a particular day. All I see is water, not wadi etc. If its a River I'm supposed to note which direction it flows. My eyesight isn't that good. A wide river isn't a problem but when is a Stream a River or the other way round, or sometimes I see a series of elongated patches of water and I'm unclear what those are. Unfortunately I think we need people on the ground to better tag what we are doing from the satellite image. Cheerio John On 21 January 2015 at 18:04, AYTOUN RALPH ralph.ayt...@ntlworld.com wrote: I would like to raise the issue of tags for *waterway=river*, *waterway=stream* and* waterway=wadi.* The problem that exists with the existing tags is that there is no visual difference on the map for a stream (perennial) and a stream (intermittent) and the only other option is wadi which gives a blue pecked line. Accepted mapping standards for this would be to show:- all perennial rivers and streams as a continuous solid blue line (indicating that there is flowing water all year round) all non-perennial rivers and streams as a continuous blue pecked line (indicating that there is flowing water during the wet season but not the whole year). A wadi would be depicted with a continuous pecked brown line (indicating that it is dry watercourse and could be dry for years at a time...only flowing if there is a flash flood or unusually heavy rain). This would then convey the correct meanings with symbols on the map and make reading the map a lot easier. The categories would still be searchable and distinguish between the three categories of water flow. The proposed tags would then be *waterway=river* .. *waterway= stream* .. continuous solid blue line *waterway=river_intermittent .. waterway=stream_intermittent . *continuous pecked blue line *waterway=wadi* . continuous pecked brown line (a wadi can be so wide that another tag would be needed similar to the tag for river banks) *waterway=wadi_bank* which would still be a brown pecked line. This would then ease the path for introducing the tags for perennial lakes with a solid blue outline and lighter blue fill, intermittent lakes with a blue pecked outline and a light blue fill and dry pans with a brown pecked outline with a brown stipple fill. I can figure out a single tag proposal on wiki but do not know how to do this more complex proposal as it entails changing all the tags at the same time along with their map symbols. If it is deemed appropriate is there someone who could do this? Reference.. http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/TopographicMapSymbols/topomapsymbols.pdf ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Waterway Tags
I think water and waterways are some of the most difficult to map and tag features there are, even when things are simple and clear in imagery. To Ralph's points: As to the tagging suggestion, Ralph, I _think_ the current best practice is to tag an intermittent stream or river like this: waterway=river (or stream) intermittent=yes or seasonal=yes If we get the map rendering (rendering basically means drawing the map, turning the data tags into a graphic map we are used to looking at) correct based on those tags, would that fit with what you had in mind for the new tags you suggested? As to how those features are drawn so they make sense when you look at the printed or rendered map, that is up to whatever source generates the rendering of the OSM data tags we put on the water features. For example, the main OSM rendering look is handled by a style sheet (CartoCSS) called openstreetmap-carto which is kept in github and you can open issues there to ask them to alter it (in addition to talking about it here of course, but to really get them to change it will have to be brought up there as a github issue eventually) And you can see how they render the water stuff in the water.mss file https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto But there is also the Humanitarian Layer which renders things differently, both what tags it renders and how it draws them. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/35.0899/-85.2833layers=H And that rendering in controlled by HOT's very own CartoCSS style sheet: https://github.com/hotosm/HDM-CartoCSS And you can see how they draw water features in the main.mss file. (now that I look at it, I see they only render differences if the waterway has seasonal=yes on it, which I never use but I guess I need to rethink that :) ybon and skorasaurus here or in IRC are the two people most involved with the the HOT HDM (Humanitarian Data Model) CartoCSS style sheet and will be good people to hear from about changes to how the map data is drawn. Does any of that help? cheers, Blake On 1/22/2015 12:18 AM, john whelan wrote: I have difficulties with water I must confess. I'm mapping from a satellite image taken an a particular day. All I see is water, not wadi etc. If its a River I'm supposed to note which direction it flows. My eyesight isn't that good. A wide river isn't a problem but when is a Stream a River or the other way round, or sometimes I see a series of elongated patches of water and I'm unclear what those are. Unfortunately I think we need people on the ground to better tag what we are doing from the satellite image. Cheerio John On 21 January 2015 at 18:04, AYTOUN RALPH ralph.ayt...@ntlworld.com mailto:ralph.ayt...@ntlworld.com wrote: I would like to raise the issue of tags for /waterway=river/, /waterway=stream/ and/waterway=wadi./ The problem that exists with the existing tags is that there is no visual difference on the map for a stream (perennial) and a stream (intermittent) and the only other option is wadi which gives a blue pecked line. Accepted mapping standards for this would be to show:- all perennial rivers and streams as a continuous solid blue line (indicating that there is flowing water all year round) all non-perennial rivers and streams as a continuous blue pecked line (indicating that there is flowing water during the wet season but not the whole year). A wadi would be depicted with a continuous pecked brown line (indicating that it is dry watercourse and could be dry for years at a time...only flowing if there is a flash flood or unusually heavy rain). This would then convey the correct meanings with symbols on the map and make reading the map a lot easier. The categories would still be searchable and distinguish between the three categories of water flow. The proposed tags would then be /waterway=river/ .. /waterway= stream/ .. continuous solid blue line /waterway=river_intermittent .. waterway=stream_intermittent . /continuous pecked blue line /waterway=wadi/ .continuous pecked brown line (a wadi can be so wide that another tag would be needed similar to the tag for river banks) /waterway=wadi_bank/ which would still be a brown pecked line. This would then ease the path for introducing the tags for perennial lakes with a solid blue outline and lighter blue fill, intermittent lakes with a blue pecked outline and a light blue fill and dry pans with a brown pecked outline with a brown stipple fill. I can figure out a single tag proposal on wiki but do not know how to do this more complex proposal as it entails changing all the tags at the same time along with their map symbols. If it is deemed appropriate is there someone who could do this? Reference.. http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/TopographicMapSymbols/topomapsymbols.pdf
[HOT] Waterway Tags
I would like to raise the issue of tags for *waterway=river*, *waterway=stream* and* waterway=wadi.* The problem that exists with the existing tags is that there is no visual difference on the map for a stream (perennial) and a stream (intermittent) and the only other option is wadi which gives a blue pecked line. Accepted mapping standards for this would be to show:- all perennial rivers and streams as a continuous solid blue line (indicating that there is flowing water all year round) all non-perennial rivers and streams as a continuous blue pecked line (indicating that there is flowing water during the wet season but not the whole year). A wadi would be depicted with a continuous pecked brown line (indicating that it is dry watercourse and could be dry for years at a time...only flowing if there is a flash flood or unusually heavy rain). This would then convey the correct meanings with symbols on the map and make reading the map a lot easier. The categories would still be searchable and distinguish between the three categories of water flow. The proposed tags would then be *waterway=river* .. *waterway= stream* .. continuous solid blue line *waterway=river_intermittent .. waterway=stream_intermittent . *continuous pecked blue line *waterway=wadi* . continuous pecked brown line (a wadi can be so wide that another tag would be needed similar to the tag for river banks) *waterway=wadi_bank* which would still be a brown pecked line. This would then ease the path for introducing the tags for perennial lakes with a solid blue outline and lighter blue fill, intermittent lakes with a blue pecked outline and a light blue fill and dry pans with a brown pecked outline with a brown stipple fill. I can figure out a single tag proposal on wiki but do not know how to do this more complex proposal as it entails changing all the tags at the same time along with their map symbols. If it is deemed appropriate is there someone who could do this? Reference.. http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/TopographicMapSymbols/topomapsymbols.pdf ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Waterway Tags
I probably should have specified the thread is titled waterway=wadi problem and this link is to the first (I think) message in the thread: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2015-January/020946.html =Russ ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Waterway Tags
Hi, I'm no expert in the waterway arena, however I wanted to point out that there is currently a pretty in-depth discussion of waterway tagging (including some suggestions to discontinue using waterway=wadi) on the Tagging mailing list, you can find the thread archive here: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2015-January Happy Mapping, =Russ On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 4:18 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: I have difficulties with water I must confess. I'm mapping from a satellite image taken an a particular day. All I see is water, not wadi etc. If its a River I'm supposed to note which direction it flows. My eyesight isn't that good. A wide river isn't a problem but when is a Stream a River or the other way round, or sometimes I see a series of elongated patches of water and I'm unclear what those are. Unfortunately I think we need people on the ground to better tag what we are doing from the satellite image. Cheerio John On 21 January 2015 at 18:04, AYTOUN RALPH ralph.ayt...@ntlworld.com wrote: I would like to raise the issue of tags for *waterway=river*, *waterway=stream* and* waterway=wadi.* The problem that exists with the existing tags is that there is no visual difference on the map for a stream (perennial) and a stream (intermittent) and the only other option is wadi which gives a blue pecked line. Accepted mapping standards for this would be to show:- all perennial rivers and streams as a continuous solid blue line (indicating that there is flowing water all year round) all non-perennial rivers and streams as a continuous blue pecked line (indicating that there is flowing water during the wet season but not the whole year). A wadi would be depicted with a continuous pecked brown line (indicating that it is dry watercourse and could be dry for years at a time...only flowing if there is a flash flood or unusually heavy rain). This would then convey the correct meanings with symbols on the map and make reading the map a lot easier. The categories would still be searchable and distinguish between the three categories of water flow. The proposed tags would then be *waterway=river* .. *waterway= stream* .. continuous solid blue line *waterway=river_intermittent .. waterway=stream_intermittent . *continuous pecked blue line *waterway=wadi* . continuous pecked brown line (a wadi can be so wide that another tag would be needed similar to the tag for river banks) *waterway=wadi_bank* which would still be a brown pecked line. This would then ease the path for introducing the tags for perennial lakes with a solid blue outline and lighter blue fill, intermittent lakes with a blue pecked outline and a light blue fill and dry pans with a brown pecked outline with a brown stipple fill. I can figure out a single tag proposal on wiki but do not know how to do this more complex proposal as it entails changing all the tags at the same time along with their map symbols. If it is deemed appropriate is there someone who could do this? Reference.. http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/TopographicMapSymbols/topomapsymbols.pdf ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
