Re: Support for http 2.0
On Tue, 2015-02-24 at 21:41 -0800, Gary Gregory wrote: The question for this project IMO is how to best implement HTTP/2 if at all within the bounds of the current code base. This has nothing to do with the merits of HTTP/2, there is no need to talk about that. It may be that the changes are so vast that we'd be better off with a new project and code base. Hi Gary HTTP/2 only defines only new wire format, transmission and routing rules while pretty much re-using everything else from HTTP/1.1. HTTP/2 RFC once published will supersede RFC 7230 (Message Syntax and Routing), but will not invalidate RFC 7231 (Semantics and Content), RFC 7232 (Conditional requests), RFC 7233 (Range Requests), RFC 7234 (Caching) and RFC 7235 (Authentication). There will still be a lot of good reasons to build on what we already have. I will post a message with my initial thoughts on HTTP/2 implementation once I have fully digested the latest HTTP/2 draft and what implications it may have for the existing design. Oleg Oleg would know best. I think we would accept help from anyone willing to volunteer to either improve or evolve the code base. Don't be shy, jump in, discuss, submit patches! Gary On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.invalid wrote: Actually there are other pluses. For one the number of sockets will go down dramatically to one since the data is multiplexed over one socket which the app server people will really want. Also, there is header compression which for mobile devices is very important since most of thier communication is small such that header size affects performance. The data is now binary in the main body which helps with the performance and secuirty aspect. Also, if an organization has upgraded the firewalls and proxies with http/2 and thier browsers support it and they have server side support then they can move forward. But as you said the server side support is sparse but netty and jetty support it now so if that is upgraded for web servers like apache then that covers the server side fairly well. Servlet 4.0 will support http/2 in J2EE 8 but who knows when that will be released. With app servers, java ect getting faster the network bottleneck is more the concern especially resources consumed by all those cell phones and maybe tablets. What will push all this is cost savings. For big companies it may be worth it if it is all internal planned updates anyway. It will be a interesting year to see what IT does. Best Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 6:01 PM, Brett Ryan brett.r...@gmail.com wrote: Tony, HTTP/2 is 1.1 backwards compatible. If the client doesn't understand HTTP/2 then it will not elect HTTP/2 features. From my understanding performance gains are only going to be noticed by the new push mechanism that allows the server serve up parts of the content that the server thinks the client needs to render the response. While a client may understand HTTP/2, the server needs to also, AND so does the application running on the server so that the application can manifest what content should be served up with the main request. With all this, considering that there's only a select few of servers supporting HTTP/2, I think the HC project has a little time before HTTP/2 support is going to be something a lot of developers are requiring. On 25 Feb 2015, at 11:43, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID wrote: Good question. Simpler means no frameworks without all the features and focus on simple url type calls to take advantage of the performance to begin with.http 2.0 is mostly about performance. The question is what will be available this month and beginning next month and who will be early adopters.The amount of money saved for big sites is quite a bit. And network and app server folks will love it. Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 4:10 PM, Stefan Magnus Landrø stefan.lan...@gmail.com wrote: What do you mean by simpler? Sendt fra min iPhone Den 24. feb. 2015 kl. 20.46 skrev Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID: My guess is IT and developers will be pushed to quickly use the new standard and bypass HC to use a simpler solution in the interim. Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:39 PM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID wrote: Thanks Gary looks like discussions are happening but nothing is ever vary fast. -Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:08 PM, Gary Gregory garydgreg...@gmail.com wrote: Please see https://marc.info/?l=httpclient-commons-devm=142434644830689w=2 Gary On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.invalid wrote: Hi All, Is there plans by Apache http components to support http 2.0? Thanks,-Tony -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com
Re: Support for http 2.0
My guess is IT and developers will be pushed to quickly use the new standard and bypass HC to use a simpler solution in the interim. Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:39 PM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID wrote: Thanks Gary looks like discussions are happening but nothing is ever vary fast. -Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:08 PM, Gary Gregory garydgreg...@gmail.com wrote: Please see https://marc.info/?l=httpclient-commons-devm=142434644830689w=2 Gary On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.invalid wrote: Hi All, Is there plans by Apache http components to support http 2.0? Thanks,-Tony -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/bauer3/ JUnit in Action, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/ Spring Batch in Action http://www.manning.com/templier/ Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com Home: http://garygregory.com/ Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Re: Support for http 2.0
Thanks Gary looks like discussions are happening but nothing is ever vary fast. -Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:08 PM, Gary Gregory garydgreg...@gmail.com wrote: Please see https://marc.info/?l=httpclient-commons-devm=142434644830689w=2 Gary On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.invalid wrote: Hi All, Is there plans by Apache http components to support http 2.0? Thanks,-Tony -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/bauer3/ JUnit in Action, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/ Spring Batch in Action http://www.manning.com/templier/ Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com Home: http://garygregory.com/ Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Support for http 2.0
Hi All, Is there plans by Apache http components to support http 2.0? Thanks,-Tony
Re: Support for http 2.0
Please see https://marc.info/?l=httpclient-commons-devm=142434644830689w=2 Gary On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.invalid wrote: Hi All, Is there plans by Apache http components to support http 2.0? Thanks,-Tony -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/bauer3/ JUnit in Action, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/ Spring Batch in Action http://www.manning.com/templier/ Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com Home: http://garygregory.com/ Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
Re: Support for http 2.0
Actually there are other pluses. For one the number of sockets will go down dramatically to one since the data is multiplexed over one socket which the app server people will really want. Also, there is header compression which for mobile devices is very important since most of thier communication is small such that header size affects performance. The data is now binary in the main body which helps with the performance and secuirty aspect. Also, if an organization has upgraded the firewalls and proxies with http/2 and thier browsers support it and they have server side support then they can move forward. But as you said the server side support is sparse but netty and jetty support it now so if that is upgraded for web servers like apache then that covers the server side fairly well. Servlet 4.0 will support http/2 in J2EE 8 but who knows when that will be released. With app servers, java ect getting faster the network bottleneck is more the concern especially resources consumed by all those cell phones and maybe tablets. What will push all this is cost savings. For big companies it may be worth it if it is all internal planned updates anyway. It will be a interesting year to see what IT does. Best Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 6:01 PM, Brett Ryan brett.r...@gmail.com wrote: Tony, HTTP/2 is 1.1 backwards compatible. If the client doesn't understand HTTP/2 then it will not elect HTTP/2 features. From my understanding performance gains are only going to be noticed by the new push mechanism that allows the server serve up parts of the content that the server thinks the client needs to render the response. While a client may understand HTTP/2, the server needs to also, AND so does the application running on the server so that the application can manifest what content should be served up with the main request. With all this, considering that there's only a select few of servers supporting HTTP/2, I think the HC project has a little time before HTTP/2 support is going to be something a lot of developers are requiring. On 25 Feb 2015, at 11:43, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID wrote: Good question. Simpler means no frameworks without all the features and focus on simple url type calls to take advantage of the performance to begin with.http 2.0 is mostly about performance. The question is what will be available this month and beginning next month and who will be early adopters.The amount of money saved for big sites is quite a bit. And network and app server folks will love it. Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 4:10 PM, Stefan Magnus Landrø stefan.lan...@gmail.com wrote: What do you mean by simpler? Sendt fra min iPhone Den 24. feb. 2015 kl. 20.46 skrev Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID: My guess is IT and developers will be pushed to quickly use the new standard and bypass HC to use a simpler solution in the interim. Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:39 PM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID wrote: Thanks Gary looks like discussions are happening but nothing is ever vary fast. -Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:08 PM, Gary Gregory garydgreg...@gmail.com wrote: Please see https://marc.info/?l=httpclient-commons-devm=142434644830689w=2 Gary On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.invalid wrote: Hi All, Is there plans by Apache http components to support http 2.0? Thanks,-Tony -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/bauer3/ JUnit in Action, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/ Spring Batch in Action http://www.manning.com/templier/ Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com Home: http://garygregory.com/ Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory - To unsubscribe, e-mail: httpclient-users-unsubscr...@hc.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: httpclient-users-h...@hc.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: httpclient-users-unsubscr...@hc.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: httpclient-users-h...@hc.apache.org
Re: Support for http 2.0
The question for this project IMO is how to best implement HTTP/2 if at all within the bounds of the current code base. This has nothing to do with the merits of HTTP/2, there is no need to talk about that. It may be that the changes are so vast that we'd be better off with a new project and code base. Oleg would know best. I think we would accept help from anyone willing to volunteer to either improve or evolve the code base. Don't be shy, jump in, discuss, submit patches! Gary On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.invalid wrote: Actually there are other pluses. For one the number of sockets will go down dramatically to one since the data is multiplexed over one socket which the app server people will really want. Also, there is header compression which for mobile devices is very important since most of thier communication is small such that header size affects performance. The data is now binary in the main body which helps with the performance and secuirty aspect. Also, if an organization has upgraded the firewalls and proxies with http/2 and thier browsers support it and they have server side support then they can move forward. But as you said the server side support is sparse but netty and jetty support it now so if that is upgraded for web servers like apache then that covers the server side fairly well. Servlet 4.0 will support http/2 in J2EE 8 but who knows when that will be released. With app servers, java ect getting faster the network bottleneck is more the concern especially resources consumed by all those cell phones and maybe tablets. What will push all this is cost savings. For big companies it may be worth it if it is all internal planned updates anyway. It will be a interesting year to see what IT does. Best Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 6:01 PM, Brett Ryan brett.r...@gmail.com wrote: Tony, HTTP/2 is 1.1 backwards compatible. If the client doesn't understand HTTP/2 then it will not elect HTTP/2 features. From my understanding performance gains are only going to be noticed by the new push mechanism that allows the server serve up parts of the content that the server thinks the client needs to render the response. While a client may understand HTTP/2, the server needs to also, AND so does the application running on the server so that the application can manifest what content should be served up with the main request. With all this, considering that there's only a select few of servers supporting HTTP/2, I think the HC project has a little time before HTTP/2 support is going to be something a lot of developers are requiring. On 25 Feb 2015, at 11:43, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID wrote: Good question. Simpler means no frameworks without all the features and focus on simple url type calls to take advantage of the performance to begin with.http 2.0 is mostly about performance. The question is what will be available this month and beginning next month and who will be early adopters.The amount of money saved for big sites is quite a bit. And network and app server folks will love it. Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 4:10 PM, Stefan Magnus Landrø stefan.lan...@gmail.com wrote: What do you mean by simpler? Sendt fra min iPhone Den 24. feb. 2015 kl. 20.46 skrev Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID: My guess is IT and developers will be pushed to quickly use the new standard and bypass HC to use a simpler solution in the interim. Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:39 PM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID wrote: Thanks Gary looks like discussions are happening but nothing is ever vary fast. -Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:08 PM, Gary Gregory garydgreg...@gmail.com wrote: Please see https://marc.info/?l=httpclient-commons-devm=142434644830689w=2 Gary On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.invalid wrote: Hi All, Is there plans by Apache http components to support http 2.0? Thanks,-Tony -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/bauer3/ JUnit in Action, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/ Spring Batch in Action http://www.manning.com/templier/ Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com Home: http://garygregory.com/ Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory - To unsubscribe, e-mail: httpclient-users-unsubscr...@hc.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: httpclient-users-h...@hc.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: httpclient-users-unsubscr...@hc.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: httpclient-users-h...@hc.apache.org -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com
Re: Support for http 2.0
Tony, HTTP/2 is 1.1 backwards compatible. If the client doesn't understand HTTP/2 then it will not elect HTTP/2 features. From my understanding performance gains are only going to be noticed by the new push mechanism that allows the server serve up parts of the content that the server thinks the client needs to render the response. While a client may understand HTTP/2, the server needs to also, AND so does the application running on the server so that the application can manifest what content should be served up with the main request. With all this, considering that there's only a select few of servers supporting HTTP/2, I think the HC project has a little time before HTTP/2 support is going to be something a lot of developers are requiring. On 25 Feb 2015, at 11:43, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID wrote: Good question. Simpler means no frameworks without all the features and focus on simple url type calls to take advantage of the performance to begin with.http 2.0 is mostly about performance. The question is what will be available this month and beginning next month and who will be early adopters.The amount of money saved for big sites is quite a bit. And network and app server folks will love it. Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 4:10 PM, Stefan Magnus Landrø stefan.lan...@gmail.com wrote: What do you mean by simpler? Sendt fra min iPhone Den 24. feb. 2015 kl. 20.46 skrev Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID: My guess is IT and developers will be pushed to quickly use the new standard and bypass HC to use a simpler solution in the interim. Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:39 PM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID wrote: Thanks Gary looks like discussions are happening but nothing is ever vary fast. -Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:08 PM, Gary Gregory garydgreg...@gmail.com wrote: Please see https://marc.info/?l=httpclient-commons-devm=142434644830689w=2 Gary On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.invalid wrote: Hi All, Is there plans by Apache http components to support http 2.0? Thanks,-Tony -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/bauer3/ JUnit in Action, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/ Spring Batch in Action http://www.manning.com/templier/ Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com Home: http://garygregory.com/ Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory - To unsubscribe, e-mail: httpclient-users-unsubscr...@hc.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: httpclient-users-h...@hc.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: httpclient-users-unsubscr...@hc.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: httpclient-users-h...@hc.apache.org
Re: Support for http 2.0
What do you mean by simpler? Sendt fra min iPhone Den 24. feb. 2015 kl. 20.46 skrev Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID: My guess is IT and developers will be pushed to quickly use the new standard and bypass HC to use a simpler solution in the interim. Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:39 PM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID wrote: Thanks Gary looks like discussions are happening but nothing is ever vary fast. -Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:08 PM, Gary Gregory garydgreg...@gmail.com wrote: Please see https://marc.info/?l=httpclient-commons-devm=142434644830689w=2 Gary On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.invalid wrote: Hi All, Is there plans by Apache http components to support http 2.0? Thanks,-Tony -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/bauer3/ JUnit in Action, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/ Spring Batch in Action http://www.manning.com/templier/ Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com Home: http://garygregory.com/ Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory - To unsubscribe, e-mail: httpclient-users-unsubscr...@hc.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: httpclient-users-h...@hc.apache.org
Re: Support for http 2.0
Good question. Simpler means no frameworks without all the features and focus on simple url type calls to take advantage of the performance to begin with.http 2.0 is mostly about performance. The question is what will be available this month and beginning next month and who will be early adopters.The amount of money saved for big sites is quite a bit. And network and app server folks will love it. Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 4:10 PM, Stefan Magnus Landrø stefan.lan...@gmail.com wrote: What do you mean by simpler? Sendt fra min iPhone Den 24. feb. 2015 kl. 20.46 skrev Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID: My guess is IT and developers will be pushed to quickly use the new standard and bypass HC to use a simpler solution in the interim. Regards,-Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:39 PM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.INVALID wrote: Thanks Gary looks like discussions are happening but nothing is ever vary fast. -Tony On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:08 PM, Gary Gregory garydgreg...@gmail.com wrote: Please see https://marc.info/?l=httpclient-commons-devm=142434644830689w=2 Gary On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Tony Anecito adanec...@yahoo.com.invalid wrote: Hi All, Is there plans by Apache http components to support http 2.0? Thanks,-Tony -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/bauer3/ JUnit in Action, Second Edition http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/ Spring Batch in Action http://www.manning.com/templier/ Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com Home: http://garygregory.com/ Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory - To unsubscribe, e-mail: httpclient-users-unsubscr...@hc.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: httpclient-users-h...@hc.apache.org
