Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: A job for Hugin mosaic-mode - hieroglyphs

[Emad ud din Btt]

Oskar is there any details available as how these were stitched together?


On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Oskar Sander wrote:

> I reckon this looks like a Hugin job:
>
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1393591/Graveyard-Atlantic-U-boats-the-ocean.html
>
>  Very very impressive visibility as this was only some 33 shots.
>
> Cheers
> O
>
>
> 2011/5/30 Oskar Sander 
>
>> A recent mosaic of hidden rooms in the great pyramid, see link below.
>> However they should have used Hugin, lousy blending!
>>
>>
>> http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/zooms/pyramids-hieroglyphs-robot-mystery-110526.html
>>
>> This is a bit OT I know, but it would be interesting to hear from some
>> more mosaic-mode users here on recent projects (As I havent been able to
>> gather any new material for mosaicing myself recently...)
>>
>> Cheers
>>  /O
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> /O
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: A job for Hugin mosaic-mode - hieroglyphs

[Emad ud din Btt]

Thanks.


Moving vehicle is not compulsory. It can be done while walking.


On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Yuval Levy  wrote:

> On May 31, 2011 02:18:47 AM Emad ud din Btt wrote:
> > Yes, I am talking about using a telephoto lens and shooting a linear
> > panorama from different spots.
>
> I have not got to a similar project after a first proof of concept due to
> lack
> of time. [0] might be useful information for you.
>
>
> > I am talking about using telephoto compression to make surfaces flat.
>
> The only difference between tele and wide/fish lens will be image
> resolution
> and the quantity of manual fiddling.
>
>
> > objects physically not on one same plane.
>
> Unless you can physically remove them you will have to work around them
> with
> carefully thought (or selected) shooting perspectives and patient masking.
>
>
> > I want to shoot a long  linear panorama of a historical road from a
> moving
> car.
>
> Have you considered using or simulating a line-scan camera?
>
> If you take enough continuous shoots you can cut one-pixel wide stripes
> from
> the middle of each shot and align them side by side.  No stitching.
>  Requires
> a trigger based on the covered distance and a reasonably fast rig; or a
> constant driving speed at fixed fps (e.g. HD camcorder).
>
> If you want to go the stitching way, you need to think of every
> protruding/intruding element and how it affects/overlaps the theoretical
> plane
> you're shooting against.  Not something you can do in real-time out of a
> moving vehicle.
>
> If the moving vehicle is a must, I would say *film* (or shoot continuously
> at
> the maximum fps that your rig can do) and select/mask.
>
> I would forego the vehicle.  Walk and let your eye call the shots (pun
> intended).  Visualize in your mind the flat surface (roll of paper - it
> does
> not have to be straight as the road can take curves) identify intrusions
> and
> protrusions and visualize the potential seam lines around them.  When in
> doubt, shoot one or two extra perspectives and select when working on the
> stitch.
>
> The choice of focal length is a trade-off between the required target
> resolution and the quantity of manual work you want to put in this.  The
> longer the lens, the more work you will have - because of the quantity of
> shots, but also because of the reduced leeway in positioning the seam line.
>
> Consider also using multiple focal distances, i.e. do a first backdrop with
> a
> fisheye and then use the tele lens only to capture those subjects for which
> you need the extra resolution.
>
> Good luck
> Yuv
>
> [0]  tutorial/
> >
>



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[hugin-ptx] Re: A job for Hugin mosaic-mode - hieroglyphs

[Oskar Sander]

I reckon this looks like a Hugin job:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1393591/Graveyard-Atlantic-U-boats-the-ocean.html

 Very very impressive visibility as this was only some 33 shots.

Cheers
O

2011/5/30 Oskar Sander 

> A recent mosaic of hidden rooms in the great pyramid, see link below.
> However they should have used Hugin, lousy blending!
>
>
> http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/zooms/pyramids-hieroglyphs-robot-mystery-110526.html
>
> This is a bit OT I know, but it would be interesting to hear from some more
> mosaic-mode users here on recent projects (As I havent been able to gather
> any new material for mosaicing myself recently...)
>
> Cheers
> /O
>
>


-- 
/O

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: A job for Hugin mosaic-mode - hieroglyphs

[Yuval Levy]

On May 31, 2011 02:18:47 AM Emad ud din Btt wrote:
> Yes, I am talking about using a telephoto lens and shooting a linear
> panorama from different spots.

I have not got to a similar project after a first proof of concept due to lack 
of time. [0] might be useful information for you.

 
> I am talking about using telephoto compression to make surfaces flat.

The only difference between tele and wide/fish lens will be image resolution 
and the quantity of manual fiddling. 


> objects physically not on one same plane.

Unless you can physically remove them you will have to work around them with 
carefully thought (or selected) shooting perspectives and patient masking.


> I want to shoot a long  linear panorama of a historical road from a moving 
car.

Have you considered using or simulating a line-scan camera?

If you take enough continuous shoots you can cut one-pixel wide stripes from 
the middle of each shot and align them side by side.  No stitching.  Requires 
a trigger based on the covered distance and a reasonably fast rig; or a 
constant driving speed at fixed fps (e.g. HD camcorder).

If you want to go the stitching way, you need to think of every 
protruding/intruding element and how it affects/overlaps the theoretical plane 
you're shooting against.  Not something you can do in real-time out of a 
moving vehicle.

If the moving vehicle is a must, I would say *film* (or shoot continuously at 
the maximum fps that your rig can do) and select/mask.

I would forego the vehicle.  Walk and let your eye call the shots (pun 
intended).  Visualize in your mind the flat surface (roll of paper - it does 
not have to be straight as the road can take curves) identify intrusions and 
protrusions and visualize the potential seam lines around them.  When in 
doubt, shoot one or two extra perspectives and select when working on the 
stitch.

The choice of focal length is a trade-off between the required target 
resolution and the quantity of manual work you want to put in this.  The 
longer the lens, the more work you will have - because of the quantity of 
shots, but also because of the reduced leeway in positioning the seam line.

Consider also using multiple focal distances, i.e. do a first backdrop with a 
fisheye and then use the tele lens only to capture those subjects for which 
you need the extra resolution.

Good luck
Yuv

[0] 


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[hugin-ptx] Re: A job for Hugin mosaic-mode - hieroglyphs

[kfj]

On 31 Mai, 08:18, Emad ud din Btt  wrote:

> I want to shoot a long  linear panorama of a historical
> road from a moving car.

To make a long story short: what matters when it comes to parallax is
not the length of your lens but your distance from the objects you're
photographing, and whether the objects are all in the same plane or
not.

If you take two successive shots of your road with a long and a short
lens and they overlap, that part of the overlap that is present in
both pairs will show the same parallactic error. The 'flattening' is
an effect observed when comparing a wide-angle shot from nearby and a
telephoto shot from afar.

Kay

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: A job for Hugin mosaic-mode - hieroglyphs

[Eric O'Brien]

To be fussy, note that this "flattening of perspective" is the result  
of the ratios of the distances between the camera and the near and far  
parts of the image being more similar than otherwise.  This can be  
caused to happen by moving the camera farther away from the subject  
(as Kay says).  Naturally, as you move father from your subject, you  
may find yourself reaching for a longer lens (which has a smaller  
field of view).


Lens length itself does not affect this kind of "perspective."

eo


On May 30, 2011, at 11:18 PM, Emad ud din Btt wrote:

Yes, I am talking about using a telephoto lens and shooting a linear  
panorama from different spots.


I am talking about using telephoto compression to make surfaces  
flat. For example there are objects physically not on one same  
plane. So thats not a flat surface to shoot.  A telephoto lens will  
make this plane flat. But do you have any info about Lens (mm) to  
distance relationship to minimalize parallactic error. I want to  
shoot a long  linear panorama of a historical road from a moving car.



Emaad


On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 9:43 PM, kfj <_...@yahoo.com> wrote:


On 30 Mai, 17:53, Emad ud din Btt  wrote:
> Kay, Can we utilize dof compression as well? Like you are looking  
for flat

> surfaces and dof of a telephoto lens also compresses depth. Objects
> physically apart form each other start looking like on one same  
plan.  So
> what about mosaicing with a telephoto lens. Will it have effect or  
not? What

> do you say? If yes, what would be ideal lens?

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean. If the subject is flat, it
doesn't matter which lens(es) you use. If it's not you're better off
shooting from one spot (panorama-style) and with a long lens from afar
so you have less parallactic errors.

If you taking the images from a spot looks wrong and you want the
'flat' impression (like, with large facades), your best bet is to be
as far away as possible and use a long lens, minimizing parallactic
differences between images. If you can't get far enough away, you'll
have a hard time getting a convincing result without manual
intervantion.

Kay


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: A job for Hugin mosaic-mode - hieroglyphs

[Emad ud din Btt]

Yes, I am talking about using a telephoto lens and shooting a linear
panorama from different spots.

I am talking about using telephoto compression to make surfaces flat. For
example there are objects physically not on one same plane. So thats not a
flat surface to shoot.  A telephoto lens will make this plane flat. But do
you have any info about Lens (mm) to distance relationship to minimalize
parallactic error. I want to shoot a long  linear panorama of a historical
road from a moving car.


Emaad


On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 9:43 PM, kfj <_...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 30 Mai, 17:53, Emad ud din Btt  wrote:
> > Kay, Can we utilize dof compression as well? Like you are looking for
> flat
> > surfaces and dof of a telephoto lens also compresses depth. Objects
> > physically apart form each other start looking like on one same plan.  So
> > what about mosaicing with a telephoto lens. Will it have effect or not?
> What
> > do you say? If yes, what would be ideal lens?
>
> I'm not sure if I understand what you mean. If the subject is flat, it
> doesn't matter which lens(es) you use. If it's not you're better off
> shooting from one spot (panorama-style) and with a long lens from afar
> so you have less parallactic errors.
>
> If you taking the images from a spot looks wrong and you want the
> 'flat' impression (like, with large facades), your best bet is to be
> as far away as possible and use a long lens, minimizing parallactic
> differences between images. If you can't get far enough away, you'll
> have a hard time getting a convincing result without manual
> intervantion.
>
> Kay
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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[hugin-ptx] Re: A job for Hugin mosaic-mode - hieroglyphs

[kfj]

On 30 Mai, 17:53, Emad ud din Btt  wrote:
> Kay, Can we utilize dof compression as well? Like you are looking for flat
> surfaces and dof of a telephoto lens also compresses depth. Objects
> physically apart form each other start looking like on one same plan.  So
> what about mosaicing with a telephoto lens. Will it have effect or not? What
> do you say? If yes, what would be ideal lens?

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean. If the subject is flat, it
doesn't matter which lens(es) you use. If it's not you're better off
shooting from one spot (panorama-style) and with a long lens from afar
so you have less parallactic errors.

If you taking the images from a spot looks wrong and you want the
'flat' impression (like, with large facades), your best bet is to be
as far away as possible and use a long lens, minimizing parallactic
differences between images. If you can't get far enough away, you'll
have a hard time getting a convincing result without manual
intervantion.

Kay

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: A job for Hugin mosaic-mode - hieroglyphs

[Emad ud din Btt]

Kay, Can we utilize dof compression as well? Like you are looking for flat
surfaces and dof of a telephoto lens also compresses depth. Objects
physically apart form each other start looking like on one same plan.  So
what about mosaicing with a telephoto lens. Will it have effect or not? What
do you say? If yes, what would be ideal lens?



On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 12:59 PM, kfj <_...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 30 Mai, 09:33, Oskar Sander  wrote:
> > A recent mosaic of hidden rooms in the great pyramid, see link below.
> > However they should have used Hugin, lousy blending!
> >
> > http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/zooms/pyramids-hieroglyphs-robo...
>
> Lousy blending indeed, but the take was quite probably incredibly
> difficult as well...
>
> > This is a bit OT I know, but it would be interesting to hear from some
> more
> > mosaic-mode users here on recent projects (As I havent been able to
> gather
> > any new material for mosaicing myself recently...)
>
> One of the things I practise my mosaic skills on is public maps and
> signposts when I'm out walking. These are ideal subjects as they are
> flat, and still a single image usually  isn't enough to capture the
> whole thing so precisely as to make small writing readable, nor can
> you meticulously choose your point of view - I just do them freehand
> best as I can. I also capture the whole thing once in one shot to get
> something as an anchor image and to 'pin' the higher-res images to and
> do the finetuning with a few line control points along the edges or
> other promient linear features. Proper optimization takes a bit of
> fiddling so as to not introduce too many degrees of freedom (like, you
> can't usually optimize 'everything' together without strange things
> happening), but what I get in the end is very good indeed.
>
> It's also a reasonable way to avoid using a scanner for large format
> material (posters, maps), since you can't scan the whole original as
> backdrop and anchor, resulting in endless attempts to position the
> tiles seamlessly (which is hard to achieve in my experience - or you
> have to scan ample overlaps and that takes lots of time).
>
> Kay
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Hugin and other free panoramic software" group.
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[hugin-ptx] Re: A job for Hugin mosaic-mode - hieroglyphs

[kfj]

On 30 Mai, 09:33, Oskar Sander  wrote:
> A recent mosaic of hidden rooms in the great pyramid, see link below.
> However they should have used Hugin, lousy blending!
>
> http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/zooms/pyramids-hieroglyphs-robo...

Lousy blending indeed, but the take was quite probably incredibly
difficult as well...

> This is a bit OT I know, but it would be interesting to hear from some more
> mosaic-mode users here on recent projects (As I havent been able to gather
> any new material for mosaicing myself recently...)

One of the things I practise my mosaic skills on is public maps and
signposts when I'm out walking. These are ideal subjects as they are
flat, and still a single image usually  isn't enough to capture the
whole thing so precisely as to make small writing readable, nor can
you meticulously choose your point of view - I just do them freehand
best as I can. I also capture the whole thing once in one shot to get
something as an anchor image and to 'pin' the higher-res images to and
do the finetuning with a few line control points along the edges or
other promient linear features. Proper optimization takes a bit of
fiddling so as to not introduce too many degrees of freedom (like, you
can't usually optimize 'everything' together without strange things
happening), but what I get in the end is very good indeed.

It's also a reasonable way to avoid using a scanner for large format
material (posters, maps), since you can't scan the whole original as
backdrop and anchor, resulting in endless attempts to position the
tiles seamlessly (which is hard to achieve in my experience - or you
have to scan ample overlaps and that takes lots of time).

Kay

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