Re: [IAEP] SoaS feedback

[Bill Kerr]

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:03 PM, David Farning wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Bill Kerr wrote:
> > My second semester year 10 control tech class is trialling SoaS.
> > My blog is http://xo-whs2009.blogspot.com/ describes some of the lesson
> > plans and issues arising. Student blogs (first impressions) are linked on
> > the sidebar
>
> Bill,
>
> Would you please ping bernie about adding your blog to
> planet.sugarlabs.org?  Those are some great observations.


done

Secondly, would you be interested in working with Anurag, Greg, and
> Caroline to develop processes to insure that the feedback from
> deployments such as yours gets 'converted' into something the
> developers can used to improve Sugar.


yes, I can do that, point me to the best place to do this

To stretch an analogy past its breaking point  Sugar is only
> useful in the hands of students.  Deployment feedback is only useful
> in the hands of developers.
>
> david
>
> > One big issue at this stage is that a Physics screen does not appear to
> > save, this will severely limit what we can do with it. Physics is by far
> the
> > most popular activity in free exploration provided for the first few
> lessons
> > --
> > Bill Kerr
> >
> > ___
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >
>
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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs - Directions of Growth

[Caroline Meeks]

Yikes I meant to link to:

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/TODO#Sugar_on_a_Stick_Improve_Deployability

Sorry

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Caroline Meeks  wrote:

> Ok first pass at putting in more details here:
>
>
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/TODO#Using_a_CD_helper_takes_a_lot_of_prep_time_before_and_after_class
>
> Please edit, add your ideas and links to previous discussions.
>
> Bill do you have details you can add about Collaboration issues?
>
> My next step is to try to figure out a next step on all of these :)
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Caroline Meeks <
> carol...@solutiongrove.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, I need details. This list needs to go on a wiki page and I and others
>> need to gather all the tickets, wiki pages and other work that has already
>> been done as well as my evidence for why these things are problems. None of
>> this is new and most of them we have a theoretical idea of how to solve.
>>
>> Its on my todo list.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Caroline
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Walter Bender 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Caroline Meeks
>>> wrote:
>>> > I'd like to build on this from the 100 ft level and Sugar on a Stick.
>>> >
>>> > I've been with kids this summer and when Sugar is working on the
>>> computer in
>>> > front of them the experience is great. Lots of learning, great
>>> engagement,
>>> > kids are willing to take on challenges.
>>> >
>>> > This fall I'd like to see lots of other people working with Sugar and
>>> small
>>> > groups of students.
>>> >
>>> > Based on my experiences this summer there are some technical/logistical
>>> > barriers I'd like to break down before I recruit teachers/parents/day
>>> care
>>> > workers to try Sugar on a Stick in group settings.
>>> >
>>> > Here are what I think the barriers are:
>>> >
>>> > Very hard to customize your spin and then copy it for a hundred kids.
>>>
>>> Can you break this down further? Are you suggesting it is hard to
>>> create a customized key? to replicate the key for 100s of children? or
>>> there is a need to customize keys per child? (a wholly new requirement
>>> AFAIK for which it would be useful to here a use case).
>>>
>>> > Sticks are dieing a lot! Like 1 or 2 every class.
>>>
>>> It would be helpful to see real data here. I certainly haven't seen
>>> these sorts of failure rates.
>>>
>>> > Backup and recovery
>>> > What is a reasonable expectation for the role of the XS in Sugar on a
>>> Stick
>>> > deployments in the next 6 months?
>>>
>>> If possible, we need a simple backup strategy independent of XS since
>>> the population of XSs will lag behind...
>>>
>>> > Collaboration is unreliable and thus frustrating.  Its working fairly
>>> well
>>> > in the wired network at the GPA lab, but no other use case seems to
>>> work
>>> > reliably.
>>>
>>> In fact, once we had properly configured the customization process not
>>> to mangle the public keys, collaboration at GPA seems to be quite
>>> reliable and not at all frustrating. There are some issues with
>>> workflow around sharing that is part of a separate discussion thread.
>>>
>>> Regarding wireless collaboration, we do need to better diagnose the
>>> various failure modes we have been seeing. But this has not been part
>>> of the SoaS pilot experience at GPA or LGF.
>>>
>>> > Using a CD helper take a lot of prep time before and after class. A
>>> floppy
>>> > helper would reduce it.  A VM solution might also reduce it.
>>>
>>> Some of this can be handled with better workflow. The CD can be
>>> rejected once the USB is booted, so it doesn't have to include a
>>> power-on / reject / power off cycle at the end of the class.
>>>
>>> > I'll try to expand on these in the next week and come up with a plan of
>>> > action for each.
>>> >
>>> > What are the other critical things we need to do in the next month or
>>> two
>>> > that will allow teachers/parents/daycare workers to try Sugar on a
>>> Sick?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 6:17 PM, David Farning >> >
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Over the last couple of weeks we have been talking about how to grow
>>> Sugar
>>> >> Labs.
>>> >>
>>> >> Without looking at specific solutions, I would like to think about
>>> >> framing Sugar Labs growth in three directions:
>>> >> 1. Improve and stabilize the learning platform.
>>> >> 2. Grow towards the student.
>>> >> 3. Increase reach and impact.
>>> >>
>>> >> Growing in these directions will help Sugar Labs accomplish its
>>> >> mission.  But, hand in hand with growth we must think about how our
>>> >> structure as a community based projects affects that growth.
>>> >>
>>> >> The two most important factors driving growth in a community project
>>> are:
>>> >> 1.  A _product_ that is valuable enough for others to test, use, and
>>> >> improve.
>>> >> 2.  A _project_ that encourages users to test, use, improve, and
>>> >> participate in the project by sharing their improvements with the
>>> >> project

Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs - Directions of Growth

[Caroline Meeks]

Ok first pass at putting in more details here:

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/TODO#Using_a_CD_helper_takes_a_lot_of_prep_time_before_and_after_class

Please edit, add your ideas and links to previous discussions.

Bill do you have details you can add about Collaboration issues?

My next step is to try to figure out a next step on all of these :)

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Caroline Meeks
wrote:

> Yes, I need details. This list needs to go on a wiki page and I and others
> need to gather all the tickets, wiki pages and other work that has already
> been done as well as my evidence for why these things are problems. None of
> this is new and most of them we have a theoretical idea of how to solve.
>
> Its on my todo list.
>
> Thanks,
> Caroline
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Walter Bender wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Caroline Meeks
>> wrote:
>> > I'd like to build on this from the 100 ft level and Sugar on a Stick.
>> >
>> > I've been with kids this summer and when Sugar is working on the
>> computer in
>> > front of them the experience is great. Lots of learning, great
>> engagement,
>> > kids are willing to take on challenges.
>> >
>> > This fall I'd like to see lots of other people working with Sugar and
>> small
>> > groups of students.
>> >
>> > Based on my experiences this summer there are some technical/logistical
>> > barriers I'd like to break down before I recruit teachers/parents/day
>> care
>> > workers to try Sugar on a Stick in group settings.
>> >
>> > Here are what I think the barriers are:
>> >
>> > Very hard to customize your spin and then copy it for a hundred kids.
>>
>> Can you break this down further? Are you suggesting it is hard to
>> create a customized key? to replicate the key for 100s of children? or
>> there is a need to customize keys per child? (a wholly new requirement
>> AFAIK for which it would be useful to here a use case).
>>
>> > Sticks are dieing a lot! Like 1 or 2 every class.
>>
>> It would be helpful to see real data here. I certainly haven't seen
>> these sorts of failure rates.
>>
>> > Backup and recovery
>> > What is a reasonable expectation for the role of the XS in Sugar on a
>> Stick
>> > deployments in the next 6 months?
>>
>> If possible, we need a simple backup strategy independent of XS since
>> the population of XSs will lag behind...
>>
>> > Collaboration is unreliable and thus frustrating.  Its working fairly
>> well
>> > in the wired network at the GPA lab, but no other use case seems to work
>> > reliably.
>>
>> In fact, once we had properly configured the customization process not
>> to mangle the public keys, collaboration at GPA seems to be quite
>> reliable and not at all frustrating. There are some issues with
>> workflow around sharing that is part of a separate discussion thread.
>>
>> Regarding wireless collaboration, we do need to better diagnose the
>> various failure modes we have been seeing. But this has not been part
>> of the SoaS pilot experience at GPA or LGF.
>>
>> > Using a CD helper take a lot of prep time before and after class. A
>> floppy
>> > helper would reduce it.  A VM solution might also reduce it.
>>
>> Some of this can be handled with better workflow. The CD can be
>> rejected once the USB is booted, so it doesn't have to include a
>> power-on / reject / power off cycle at the end of the class.
>>
>> > I'll try to expand on these in the next week and come up with a plan of
>> > action for each.
>> >
>> > What are the other critical things we need to do in the next month or
>> two
>> > that will allow teachers/parents/daycare workers to try Sugar on a Sick?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 6:17 PM, David Farning 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Over the last couple of weeks we have been talking about how to grow
>> Sugar
>> >> Labs.
>> >>
>> >> Without looking at specific solutions, I would like to think about
>> >> framing Sugar Labs growth in three directions:
>> >> 1. Improve and stabilize the learning platform.
>> >> 2. Grow towards the student.
>> >> 3. Increase reach and impact.
>> >>
>> >> Growing in these directions will help Sugar Labs accomplish its
>> >> mission.  But, hand in hand with growth we must think about how our
>> >> structure as a community based projects affects that growth.
>> >>
>> >> The two most important factors driving growth in a community project
>> are:
>> >> 1.  A _product_ that is valuable enough for others to test, use, and
>> >> improve.
>> >> 2.  A _project_ that encourages users to test, use, improve, and
>> >> participate in the project by sharing their improvements with the
>> >> project.
>> >>
>> >> 'Users' is a wide term.  In the case of Sugar Labs, it can range from
>> >> individuals, to companies, to national governments.  Anyone who takes
>> >> a Sugar deliverable and builds on it to help someone learn is a user.
>> >>
>> >> To take a step back, we can think of adding value to Sugar Labs.  But,
>> >> what is value? There are many defini

Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs - Directions of Growth

[David Farning]

These are precisely the types of discussions that will be extremely
beneficial to Sugar Labs and the Sugar project over the next several
months to a year.

The questions are about:
What do we _need_ to make our deployment work?
How do we prioritize those _needs_?
How do we work with the larger Sugar community to meet those _needs_?

david




On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:55 AM, Walter Bender wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Caroline Meeks 
> wrote:
>> I'd like to build on this from the 100 ft level and Sugar on a Stick.
>>
>> I've been with kids this summer and when Sugar is working on the computer in
>> front of them the experience is great. Lots of learning, great engagement,
>> kids are willing to take on challenges.
>>
>> This fall I'd like to see lots of other people working with Sugar and small
>> groups of students.
>>
>> Based on my experiences this summer there are some technical/logistical
>> barriers I'd like to break down before I recruit teachers/parents/day care
>> workers to try Sugar on a Stick in group settings.
>>
>> Here are what I think the barriers are:
>>
>> Very hard to customize your spin and then copy it for a hundred kids.
>
> Can you break this down further? Are you suggesting it is hard to
> create a customized key? to replicate the key for 100s of children? or
> there is a need to customize keys per child? (a wholly new requirement
> AFAIK for which it would be useful to here a use case).
>
>> Sticks are dieing a lot! Like 1 or 2 every class.
>
> It would be helpful to see real data here. I certainly haven't seen
> these sorts of failure rates.
>
>> Backup and recovery
>> What is a reasonable expectation for the role of the XS in Sugar on a Stick
>> deployments in the next 6 months?
>
> If possible, we need a simple backup strategy independent of XS since
> the population of XSs will lag behind...
>
>> Collaboration is unreliable and thus frustrating.  Its working fairly well
>> in the wired network at the GPA lab, but no other use case seems to work
>> reliably.
>
> In fact, once we had properly configured the customization process not
> to mangle the public keys, collaboration at GPA seems to be quite
> reliable and not at all frustrating. There are some issues with
> workflow around sharing that is part of a separate discussion thread.
>
> Regarding wireless collaboration, we do need to better diagnose the
> various failure modes we have been seeing. But this has not been part
> of the SoaS pilot experience at GPA or LGF.
>
>> Using a CD helper take a lot of prep time before and after class. A floppy
>> helper would reduce it.  A VM solution might also reduce it.
>
> Some of this can be handled with better workflow. The CD can be
> rejected once the USB is booted, so it doesn't have to include a
> power-on / reject / power off cycle at the end of the class.
>
>> I'll try to expand on these in the next week and come up with a plan of
>> action for each.
>>
>> What are the other critical things we need to do in the next month or two
>> that will allow teachers/parents/daycare workers to try Sugar on a Sick?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 6:17 PM, David Farning 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Over the last couple of weeks we have been talking about how to grow Sugar
>>> Labs.
>>>
>>> Without looking at specific solutions, I would like to think about
>>> framing Sugar Labs growth in three directions:
>>> 1. Improve and stabilize the learning platform.
>>> 2. Grow towards the student.
>>> 3. Increase reach and impact.
>>>
>>> Growing in these directions will help Sugar Labs accomplish its
>>> mission.  But, hand in hand with growth we must think about how our
>>> structure as a community based projects affects that growth.
>>>
>>> The two most important factors driving growth in a community project are:
>>> 1.  A _product_ that is valuable enough for others to test, use, and
>>> improve.
>>> 2.  A _project_ that encourages users to test, use, improve, and
>>> participate in the project by sharing their improvements with the
>>> project.
>>>
>>> 'Users' is a wide term.  In the case of Sugar Labs, it can range from
>>> individuals, to companies, to national governments.  Anyone who takes
>>> a Sugar deliverable and builds on it to help someone learn is a user.
>>>
>>> To take a step back, we can think of adding value to Sugar Labs.  But,
>>> what is value? There are many definitions of value in a project such
>>> as Sugar Labs:
>>> Quality of code.
>>> Number of users.
>>> Number of headlines.
>>> Compliance to specific teaching pedagogies.
>>> 
>>>
>>> The notion of  value that I tend to looks at, from a 50,000 feet, is
>>> 'How does Sugar Labs create a large pool of users -- who benefit
>>> enough from using Sugar -- that they, and others, are willing to
>>> invest in improving Sugar'?
>>>
>>> As a rough model we can think of value as Educational Excellence(X),
>>> Technical Excellence(Y) and Reach and Impact(Z).
>>>
>>> Growth towards educational excellence represents extending t

Re: [IAEP] SoaS feedback

[David Farning]

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Bill Kerr wrote:
> My second semester year 10 control tech class is trialling SoaS.
> My blog is http://xo-whs2009.blogspot.com/ describes some of the lesson
> plans and issues arising. Student blogs (first impressions) are linked on
> the sidebar

Bill,

Would you please ping bernie about adding your blog to
planet.sugarlabs.org?  Those are some great observations.

Secondly, would you be interested in working with Anurag, Greg, and
Caroline to develop processes to insure that the feedback from
deployments such as yours gets 'converted' into something the
developers can used to improve Sugar.

To stretch an analogy past its breaking point  Sugar is only
useful in the hands of students.  Deployment feedback is only useful
in the hands of developers.

david

> One big issue at this stage is that a Physics screen does not appear to
> save, this will severely limit what we can do with it. Physics is by far the
> most popular activity in free exploration provided for the first few lessons
> --
> Bill Kerr
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
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Re: [IAEP] SoaS feedback

[Gary C Martin]

On 28 Jul 2009, at 03:18, Edward Cherlin wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Gary C Martin  
> wrote:
>> Hi Edward,
>>
>> On 28 Jul 2009, at 02:52, Edward Cherlin wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Gary C Martin
>>> wrote:

 Hi Edward,

 On 28 Jul 2009, at 02:02, Edward Cherlin wrote:

> It saves on mine, in Strawberry. Which version of SoaS are you  
> using?

 Just to confirm: Physics-2 has no save support, v2 is the currently
 released/distributed version.
>>>
>>> I'm running v2, and I'm looking at a saved session in Journal.  
>>> Screen
>>> shots attached.
>>
>> Have you tried resuming one?
>
> Yes. Several times.

Well apologies, but please expect any existing Physics Journal entries  
you've created to stop working when we release the official version  
Physics-3. You've managed to get a work in progress development  
version installed sometime over the last few of weeks.

Sincerely,
--Gary

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Re: [IAEP] SoaS feedback

[Edward Cherlin]

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Gary C Martin wrote:
> Hi Edward,
>
> On 28 Jul 2009, at 02:52, Edward Cherlin wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Gary C Martin
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Edward,
>>>
>>> On 28 Jul 2009, at 02:02, Edward Cherlin wrote:
>>>
 It saves on mine, in Strawberry. Which version of SoaS are you using?
>>>
>>> Just to confirm: Physics-2 has no save support, v2 is the currently
>>> released/distributed version.
>>
>> I'm running v2, and I'm looking at a saved session in Journal. Screen
>> shots attached.
>
> Have you tried resuming one?

Yes. Several times.

> If you're using the current release they will
> be the usual blank Journal entries with no world state (I did specifically
> note that in the activities.sl.org release notes).
>
> Asaf, Brian, and myself made the call to dig in, rescue, debug, and fix-up
> the old semi-released Physics from bit-rotting over at wiki.lt.org.
> Physics-2 was our first cycle on that effort (may thanks to both of them for
> taking this task on). For more information please see:
>
>        http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Physics
>
> ... and a recent Activity IRC meeting we had a couple of weeks back will
> give you a good idea of where we're going with future Physics releases:
>
>        http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Activities/Physics
>
> Regards,
> --Gary
>
>>> We have been working on the next Physics release cycle in its git
>>> repository. State saving has been working there for a couple of weeks
>>> now.
>>> The saved states that the development version currently generates are a
>>> temporary format that are in the process of being replaced so we have
>>> some
>>> control over the storage format for future proofing against Box2D
>>> changes.
>>> Are you using a development version of Physics from git?
>>>
>>> An official Physics-3 will likely be released (within a few weeks I hope)
>>> including this new work.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> --Gary
>
>



-- 
Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
And Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
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Re: [IAEP] SoaS feedback

[Gary C Martin]

Hi Edward,

On 28 Jul 2009, at 02:52, Edward Cherlin wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Gary C Martin  
> wrote:
>> Hi Edward,
>>
>> On 28 Jul 2009, at 02:02, Edward Cherlin wrote:
>>
>>> It saves on mine, in Strawberry. Which version of SoaS are you  
>>> using?
>>
>> Just to confirm: Physics-2 has no save support, v2 is the currently
>> released/distributed version.
>
> I'm running v2, and I'm looking at a saved session in Journal. Screen
> shots attached.

Have you tried resuming one? If you're using the current release they  
will be the usual blank Journal entries with no world state (I did  
specifically note that in the activities.sl.org release notes).

Asaf, Brian, and myself made the call to dig in, rescue, debug, and  
fix-up the old semi-released Physics from bit-rotting over at  
wiki.lt.org. Physics-2 was our first cycle on that effort (may thanks  
to both of them for taking this task on). For more information please  
see:

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Physics

... and a recent Activity IRC meeting we had a couple of weeks back  
will give you a good idea of where we're going with future Physics  
releases:

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Talk:Activities/Physics

Regards,
--Gary

>> We have been working on the next Physics release cycle in its git
>> repository. State saving has been working there for a couple of  
>> weeks now.
>> The saved states that the development version currently generates  
>> are a
>> temporary format that are in the process of being replaced so we  
>> have some
>> control over the storage format for future proofing against Box2D  
>> changes.
>> Are you using a development version of Physics from git?
>>
>> An official Physics-3 will likely be released (within a few weeks I  
>> hope)
>> including this new work.
>>
>> Regards,
>> --Gary

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Re: [IAEP] GPA Notes 7/23/09

[Caroline Meeks]

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 9:22 PM, Edward Cherlin  wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 2:55 AM, K. K. Subramaniam
> wrote:
> > On Friday 24 Jul 2009 7:08:05 am Anurag Goel wrote:
> >> I feel most kids struggled with this because they had not learned too
> much
> >> about geometry, particularily concepts involving degrees and radii.
> >> However, kids experimented with a lot of different values to better
> predict
> >> increments. Some kids realized that if they input a really large number
> >> they would get the same result as importing a really small number (ex:
> 12
> >> and 732). As expected, the kids did not understand why that was.
> > The circular movement is not about geometry but differential calculus.
> Watch
> > the movie clips on Talking Turtles in http://logothings.wikispaces.com,
> > particular the first part of clip 2. 732 and 12 are numerical encodings
> of a
> > concept that they have to experience first using their own body
> movements.
>
> They all know what a 720 turn is in skateboarding or snowboarding body
> movements. If you don't, check out some eXtreme Sports videos on the
> Web.
>

Cool idea!  Thanks Edward

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Cg7w_8kkU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_7fpFtWXCo&feature=related

Walter, you tube is probably blocked so you'll have to download them locally
if you want to use this idea.

>
> > Subbu
> >
> > ___
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
> And Children are my nation.
> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
> http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com

617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax
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Re: [IAEP] SoaS feedback

[Gary C Martin]

Hi Edward,

On 28 Jul 2009, at 02:02, Edward Cherlin wrote:

> It saves on mine, in Strawberry. Which version of SoaS are you using?


Just to confirm: Physics-2 has no save support, v2 is the currently  
released/distributed version.

We have been working on the next Physics release cycle in its git  
repository. State saving has been working there for a couple of weeks  
now. The saved states that the development version currently generates  
are a temporary format that are in the process of being replaced so we  
have some control over the storage format for future proofing against  
Box2D changes. Are you using a development version of Physics from git?

An official Physics-3 will likely be released (within a few weeks I  
hope) including this new work.

Regards,
--Gary

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Re: [IAEP] GPA Notes 7/23/09

[Edward Cherlin]

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:38 PM, Anurag Goel wrote:
> GPA Notes 7/23/09
>
> Who: Walter, Caroline, Jennifer, Anurag
>
> 10:45: Set-up computers and projector. Walter worked on Clock program in
> Turtle Art
>
> Walter: Today we are going to use the turtle to play with clocks. (Walter
> shows the kids the clock program he made in Turtle Art. The kids compare
> Walter's clock with the other clocks in the room.
>
> Walter: Why do we use 12 numbers on the clock instead of 10 or 6 or 5?

And why is the beginning hour of the day 12 and not 0 or 1?

Because Leonardo of Pisa (Fibonacci) found out about Arabic numerals
and published his book, Liber Abaci, during the Crusades. The Catholic
Church took the position that the (Hindu/)Arabic 0 was an infidel
invention, counter to the essential doctrines of Christianity. That
is, that nothingness is irreligious when religion is founded on
Creation. At that time clocks only existed in monasteries and
cathedrals. Household clocks and pocket watches stayed with Roman
numerals, and we are still stuck with this prejudice in the US. The
situation is different in the sciences, in the US military, and in
almost all other countries. All of them use a 24-hour clock that runs
from 0:00:00 to 23:59:59 every day.

This also gets rid of the ambiguity about 12 AM and 12 PM, and the
resulting need to say 12 noon or 12 midnight. And the other ambiguity
about 12 midnight--Which day is it? 0:00 is clearly part of the day
that follows it.

Clock time is the canonical example of a ring in mathematics, where
you have addition, subtraction, and multiplication, but not division.
-- 
Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
And Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
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Re: [IAEP] SoaS feedback

[Gary C Martin]

On 28 Jul 2009, at 01:18, Bill Kerr wrote:

> My second semester year 10 control tech class is trialling SoaS.
>
> My blog is http://xo-whs2009.blogspot.com/ describes some of the  
> lesson plans and issues arising. Student blogs (first impressions)  
> are linked on the sidebar
>
> One big issue at this stage is that a Physics screen does not appear  
> to save, this will severely limit what we can do with it. Physics is  
> by far the most popular activity in free exploration provided for  
> the first few lessons


Give us a chance, it's coming (thanks to Asaf)... :-)

Regards,
--Gary

P.S. Actually Physics state saving has been working for a couple of  
weeks or so now in git, but has not been release as we need to have  
confidence the format will not break in future releases of Box2D (I'd  
hate to have all your lovely Physics Journal entries stop working in 6  
months because of a change upstream we had no control of).
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Re: [IAEP] GPA Notes 7/23/09

[Edward Cherlin]

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 2:55 AM, K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
> On Friday 24 Jul 2009 7:08:05 am Anurag Goel wrote:
>> I feel most kids struggled with this because they had not learned too much
>> about geometry, particularily concepts involving degrees and radii.
>> However, kids experimented with a lot of different values to better predict
>> increments. Some kids realized that if they input a really large number
>> they would get the same result as importing a really small number (ex: 12
>> and 732). As expected, the kids did not understand why that was.
> The circular movement is not about geometry but differential calculus. Watch
> the movie clips on Talking Turtles in http://logothings.wikispaces.com,
> particular the first part of clip 2. 732 and 12 are numerical encodings of a
> concept that they have to experience first using their own body movements.

They all know what a 720 turn is in skateboarding or snowboarding body
movements. If you don't, check out some eXtreme Sports videos on the
Web.

> Subbu
>
> ___
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>



-- 
Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
And Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
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Re: [IAEP] GPA Notes 7/23/09

[K. K. Subramaniam]

On Tuesday 28 Jul 2009 2:25:29 am Caroline Meeks wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 5:55 AM, K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
> > On Friday 24 Jul 2009 7:08:05 am Anurag Goel wrote:
> >> ..Some kids realized that if they input a really large number
> > >they would get the same result as importing a really small number (ex: 12
> > >and 732). As expected, the kids did not understand why that was.
> > The circular movement is not about geometry but differential calculus.
> > Watch
> > the movie clips on Talking Turtles in http://logothings.wikispaces.com,
>
> The one with the yellow turtle?
No, the BBC video "Papert and Talking Turtle" shown in five parts. See part 2:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTd3N5Oj2jk

Papert [1:37] : The essential point about the turtle is its role as a 
transitional object. That is, transitional between the body, self and the 
abstract mathematical ideas. The turtle, you can identify with it. You can 
move your body in order to guess how you can command the turtle. So it is 
related to you, your body, your movement and it is also related to 
mathematical ideas."

Papert's genius lies in creating an environment in which children can not only 
experience distances, turns and geometrical shapes but also digitize them into 
countable numbers for operating the turtle. Pen trails help children to detect 
and correct any encoding errors. In this process, children use principles of 
differential calculus (countable offsets from current location), integral 
calculus (accumulate counts), arithmetic (modulo operators) and not geometry 
(compass-ruler constructions).

The teacher in the video summarizes it very well:

Teacher [4:13]: The great thing is it provides a mathematical environment for 
the children. While the children are working around the turtle, if you listen 
to what they are talking about, it's all mathematical. Verbalization in 
Mathematics is very important and I think that half of the problems with 
Mathematical teaching is that students don't communicate mathematically, talk 
about mathematics and experience mathematical problems...

The numbers on the clock (and its shape) encode experiences that many adults 
take for granted but which inspire awe in children. Why deny them the wonder 
by jumping into encodings right away?

Subbu
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Re: [IAEP] SoaS feedback

[Edward Cherlin]

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:18 PM, Bill Kerr wrote:
> My second semester year 10 control tech class is trialling SoaS.
> My blog is http://xo-whs2009.blogspot.com/ describes some of the lesson
> plans and issues arising. Student blogs (first impressions) are linked on
> the sidebar
> One big issue at this stage is that a Physics screen does not appear to
> save,

It saves on mine, in Strawberry. Which version of SoaS are you using?

It appears from your blog that you use the hover technique to get at
menus, rather than right-clicking. Were you aware that you can get the
menu without having to wait? I am documenting such things at
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_undiscoverable.

> this will severely limit what we can do with it. Physics is by far the
> most popular activity in free exploration provided for the first few lessons.

Measure is my favorite, starting with acoustics. But you can hook up
any instrument that puts out an electrical signal in the 0-1V range. I
have written up and extended Alan Kay's lessons on Galilean gravity.
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/0/0e/Gravity.odt


> --
> Bill Kerr
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name
And Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination.
http://earthtreasury.org/worknet (Edward Mokurai Cherlin)
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Re: [IAEP] [support-gang] An Opportunity to bring vital content tothe Sugar/XO world - Needs technical help.

[Gary C Martin]

On 27 Jul 2009, at 23:23, Costello, Rob R wrote:

> i've got flash CS4 and the latest ASV decompiler ...might have  
> missed an email but i asked offlist if the swf had been moved...can  
> debug on windows (if that word survives the technical or ideological  
> filters!) if needed

http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/eatboom/repos/mainline/trees/master

--Gary
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[IAEP] SoaS feedback

[Bill Kerr]

My second semester year 10 control tech class is trialling SoaS.

My blog is http://xo-whs2009.blogspot.com/ describes some of the lesson
plans and issues arising. *Student blogs (first impressions) are linked on
the sidebar*

One big issue at this stage is that a Physics screen does not appear to
save, this will severely limit what we can do with it. Physics is by far the
most popular activity in free exploration provided for the first few lessons

-- 
Bill Kerr
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[IAEP] California Curriculum Standards and Sample Questions

[Caryl Bigenho]

Hi All,


It might be useful to developers and others if we had some idea of current 
curriculum standards for the various grades and subject areas so that 
Activities and lessons applying them could enhance students learning in the 
areas the teachers are most concerned about.


Fortunately, California, a state with one of the largest student populations, 
not only has their standards available online (bring!), but also has sample 
questions from past tests, geared to the standards.  These are pretty 
interesting!  Try some of them!


This could be a valuable resource for us. The same questions will not be asked 
again, but you can see what type of proficiencies they are looking for.  I'm 
sure other states have similar information online, but it is likely to be very 
similar.  Here is the link:


http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/sr/css05rtq.asp


Enjoy! 


Caryl
P.S.  In no way am I advocating "teaching to the tests," but test scores are 
what the teachers and parents are going to be most interested in. Having 
Activities and lessons available to help teach some of these target concepts 
seems like a very good idea.___
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Re: [IAEP] Notes from GPA 7-21

[Edward Cherlin]

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Caroline
Meeks wrote:
> 2nd Grade working with turtle art and a community map.

This is an excellent report. I would be grateful if you would add the
issues you found in discoverability to the Wiki page [[The
undiscoverable]], along with hints on how to introduce these topics.

Eventually, I think we need to create a dependency map of Sugar
issues, subject matter topics, and lesson plans. For example, Alan
Kay's third-grade gravity lesson (which I wrote up with Turtle Art
models and some additions at
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:Gravity.odt) depends on previous
experience in building turtle graphics models (whether in Turtle Art,
Etoys, or UCBLogo) and in taking videos. It also requires a lesson in
taking frames from a video and overlaying them.

> The goal of the class was to add a photo from a field trip to their
> existing turtle art maps
>
> Demoed
> -entering the neighborhood
> -clicking on shared browse activity
> -opening  bookmark
> -choose an image
> - right clicking to download photo
> -going to turtle art
> - using show block to get the photos into a show block (this task they
> had done before)

That sounds like too many new ideas at once.

> Kids then tried it: Here were the issues at each stage.
>
> Entering the neighborhood.
>
> Kids had trouble getting to the frame. I had not introduced the
> keyboard shortcuts.  We are thinking of getting stickers and putting
> them on the F keys in the computer lab.

They didn't know about putting the cursor in any corner either? Or
they had trouble moving the cursor accurately?

Did you have a projector so that the children could see the state of
your screen?

> TODO Make and buy stickers
>
> Clicking on the shared browse activity
>
> Someone went to the home and clicked on browse rather then to
> neighborhood.  For someone this reopened a shared browse from last
> time. However, the url bookmarked in the old activity required login
> so it didn't work. Thus some kids opened the wrong browse and
> everything appeared the same but when they clicked on the bookmark
> thumbnail it didn't work. very confusing.

There are other issues in discovering how to open old sessions and
clean new sessions of activities.

> TODO: Create a lesson that introduces the neighborhood and shared
> activities and the difference between resumed and new activities.

Do we have a place to put such lesson plans?

> -Choose an image
> We had too many choices. We should have narrowed it down to about 5 or
> 10 choices.  The kids did have a very good time looking at their
> photos and everyone did eventually pick one or more so maybe its ok.
> But I would recommend fewer next time.
>
> We also had them click to the big view to download. Given we want them
> small on the map we could have them download the thumbnail instead.
>
> Right click to download image
> This was very hard for the kids. They weren't aware of two buttons and
> didn't know their right from their left.

You might try it with 'x button' and 'o button' as on the XO, with a
picture or stickers. This issue is why the buttons were marked on the
XO.

> The also have a hard time with the count down and the ok. They miss it.

By count down, do you mean the progress bar?

> As mentioned in previous report we need a way to share files directly
> into student journals.

We have Send for sharing with individuals. Do teachers not have a
broadcast sharing function? Should we do a lesson on the Telephone
Tree concept and exponential growth, where each student sends to at
least two others?

> Going to turtle art
> Hadn't gotten the concept of different activities yet.

This is very basic, and should be covered on the first day. I think we
need to get together on an initial set of show and tell lesson plans
for teachers, covering at least

o Open XO
o Power
o Name
o Personal colors
o Four neighborhood views
o Search for classmate by name
o Make friend
o Frame: Buttons, Journal, Activities, Friends, Hardware, Open Documents
o Start/resume activity from home view
o Favorites: unselect vs. delete
o Quit session, with name, description, and tags
o Keep session state, with name, description, and tags
o Resume from Journal
o Hover menu in Journal: Open With, Install
o View more data on Journal entry with right arrowhead button; Edit
metadata; Close view with left arrowhead button
o Sharing in Neighborhood view, with results in activity view and frame.
o Selected Activities: Something like Paint, TamTam, Chat, Etoys,
Talk, Record, Browse; maybe Write, Turtle Art, and Calculate; not
Terminal or Log at first (We might want to change the initial set of
favorites.)

This is obviously far too much to cover on the first day, which should
include a generous period for free exploration. We need to find a
meaningful and memorable use case for each of these functions,
selected so that we never need to violate dependency order.

(This also means that topological sorting should be taught in
teachers' colleges. Th

Re: [IAEP] [support-gang] An Opportunity to bring vital content tothe Sugar/XO world - Needs technical help.

[Costello, Rob R]

i've got flash CS4 and the latest ASV decompiler ...might have missed an email 
but i asked offlist if the swf had been moved...can debug on windows (if that 
word survives the technical or ideological filters!) if needed




From: Gary C Martin [mailto:g...@garycmartin.com]
Sent: Tue 7/28/2009 3:57 AM
To: Tomeu Vizoso
Cc: Costello, Rob R; IAEP SugarLabs; Community Support Volunteers -- who help 
respond t
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [support-gang] An Opportunity to bring vital content tothe 
Sugar/XO world - Needs technical help.



On 27 Jul 2009, at 18:13, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 16:08, Gary C Martin
> wrote:
>> On 22 Jul 2009, at 10:59, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 14:46, Costello, Rob
>>> R wrote:

 if you need some one to look at a fla or decompile a swf and have
 a look
 at
 what the actionscript is doing i can probably help

 don't know anything much about gnash but have done lots of flash
 coding
>>>
>>> Would be really great if you could run the .swf in soas and debug
>>> the
>>> .fla in order to know why it isn't advancing to the next level. Once
>>> you get an explanation from the Flash side of things of why this
>>> happen, I think the Gnash developers will be able to find a fix in
>>> Gnash.
>>
>> Tomeu, for what it's worth I don't think this is anything todo with
>> Flash/Gnash incompatibility. The current eatboom SWF (and FLA
>> source) is
>> simply not quite working (likely related to the quick change they
>> made for
>> it to run outside of the rest of their system). I've tried with a
>> number of
>> Adobe Flash player versions and plugins, including your current
>> gnash rpms,
>> and they all fail to progress in the same way.
>>
>> After bin hexing the binary files to work out what version they
>> were created
>> with, you will need to have the Adobe Flash 9 IDE to debug this
>> code - my
>> last $$$ upgrade was for 7, so I can't help debug the current FLA
>> from the
>> git rep.
>
> John can provide us with a Flash CS3 or Flash 8 version, would that
> help in any way?

Sorry not for me.

FWIW: If this is a blocker. I could install the Flash 30 day trial and
attempt a one off eatboom fix for now, but it's not much of a FOSS
solution going forwards...

Regards,
--Gary




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[IAEP] Fwd: [Nsdl-all] Mark Your Calendars for the 2009 NSDL Annual Meeting

[Caroline Meeks]

Maybe some of the DC people could go to this. I don't think you have to be
on a current NSF project to register and its quite interesting.  It would be
good to scout for NSDL projects that could be sugarized.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Susan Jesuroga 
Date: Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 4:39 PM
Subject: [Nsdl-all] Mark Your Calendars for the 2009 NSDL Annual Meeting
To: nsdl-...@nsdl.org


 The 2009 NSDL Annual Meeting will be held on *November 17-19* at the Marriott
at Metro 
Centerin
Washington DC. We’re working to get some basic information on the web
site, but here are a few tidbits about what’s to come.



The overall structure of the meeting will be the same as last year, starting
with the poster reception on the first evening, and ending the meeting by
noon on the 19th. Registration will open in early September. The planning
committee is working on a theme for the meeting, and has come up with 6
major areas of interest: Evaluation & Impact, Outreach & Professional
Development, Research Findings, Sustainability, Services & Technology and
Collection Development. We will be asking presenters to submit their
presentations with these categories in mind, to help us better slot your
talks with similar topics. We will also be putting on some pre-meeting
sessions via ReadyTalk, including an orientation for new staff and projects,
and other presentations that will help us all hit the ground running at the
meeting.



There is a meeting blog at http://expertvoices.nsdl.org/community/ where
updates and information will be posted, along with emails to the usual
community lists. So, stay tuned, make your travel plans and hotel
reservations and plan to reconnect with your colleagues and friends in
November.







*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^

Susan Jesuroga jesur...@ucar.edu

Meeting Chair  303-497-2942

National Science Digital Library

nsdl.org



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-- 
Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com

617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax
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Re: [IAEP] GPA Notes 7/23/09

[Caroline Meeks]

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 5:55 AM, K. K. Subramaniam wrote:

> On Friday 24 Jul 2009 7:08:05 am Anurag Goel wrote:
> > I feel most kids struggled with this because they had not learned too
> much
> > about geometry, particularily concepts involving degrees and radii.
> > However, kids experimented with a lot of different values to better
> predict
> > increments. Some kids realized that if they input a really large number
> > they would get the same result as importing a really small number (ex: 12
> > and 732). As expected, the kids did not understand why that was.
> The circular movement is not about geometry but differential calculus.
> Watch
> the movie clips on Talking Turtles in http://logothings.wikispaces.com,


The one with the yellow turtle?

>
> particular the first part of clip 2. 732 and 12 are numerical encodings of
> a
> concept that they have to experience first using their own body movements.
>
> Subbu
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com

617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax
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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs - Directions of Growth

[Caroline Meeks]

Yes, I need details. This list needs to go on a wiki page and I and others
need to gather all the tickets, wiki pages and other work that has already
been done as well as my evidence for why these things are problems. None of
this is new and most of them we have a theoretical idea of how to solve.

Its on my todo list.

Thanks,
Caroline

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Caroline Meeks
> wrote:
> > I'd like to build on this from the 100 ft level and Sugar on a Stick.
> >
> > I've been with kids this summer and when Sugar is working on the computer
> in
> > front of them the experience is great. Lots of learning, great
> engagement,
> > kids are willing to take on challenges.
> >
> > This fall I'd like to see lots of other people working with Sugar and
> small
> > groups of students.
> >
> > Based on my experiences this summer there are some technical/logistical
> > barriers I'd like to break down before I recruit teachers/parents/day
> care
> > workers to try Sugar on a Stick in group settings.
> >
> > Here are what I think the barriers are:
> >
> > Very hard to customize your spin and then copy it for a hundred kids.
>
> Can you break this down further? Are you suggesting it is hard to
> create a customized key? to replicate the key for 100s of children? or
> there is a need to customize keys per child? (a wholly new requirement
> AFAIK for which it would be useful to here a use case).
>
> > Sticks are dieing a lot! Like 1 or 2 every class.
>
> It would be helpful to see real data here. I certainly haven't seen
> these sorts of failure rates.
>
> > Backup and recovery
> > What is a reasonable expectation for the role of the XS in Sugar on a
> Stick
> > deployments in the next 6 months?
>
> If possible, we need a simple backup strategy independent of XS since
> the population of XSs will lag behind...
>
> > Collaboration is unreliable and thus frustrating.  Its working fairly
> well
> > in the wired network at the GPA lab, but no other use case seems to work
> > reliably.
>
> In fact, once we had properly configured the customization process not
> to mangle the public keys, collaboration at GPA seems to be quite
> reliable and not at all frustrating. There are some issues with
> workflow around sharing that is part of a separate discussion thread.
>
> Regarding wireless collaboration, we do need to better diagnose the
> various failure modes we have been seeing. But this has not been part
> of the SoaS pilot experience at GPA or LGF.
>
> > Using a CD helper take a lot of prep time before and after class. A
> floppy
> > helper would reduce it.  A VM solution might also reduce it.
>
> Some of this can be handled with better workflow. The CD can be
> rejected once the USB is booted, so it doesn't have to include a
> power-on / reject / power off cycle at the end of the class.
>
> > I'll try to expand on these in the next week and come up with a plan of
> > action for each.
> >
> > What are the other critical things we need to do in the next month or two
> > that will allow teachers/parents/daycare workers to try Sugar on a Sick?
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 6:17 PM, David Farning 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Over the last couple of weeks we have been talking about how to grow
> Sugar
> >> Labs.
> >>
> >> Without looking at specific solutions, I would like to think about
> >> framing Sugar Labs growth in three directions:
> >> 1. Improve and stabilize the learning platform.
> >> 2. Grow towards the student.
> >> 3. Increase reach and impact.
> >>
> >> Growing in these directions will help Sugar Labs accomplish its
> >> mission.  But, hand in hand with growth we must think about how our
> >> structure as a community based projects affects that growth.
> >>
> >> The two most important factors driving growth in a community project
> are:
> >> 1.  A _product_ that is valuable enough for others to test, use, and
> >> improve.
> >> 2.  A _project_ that encourages users to test, use, improve, and
> >> participate in the project by sharing their improvements with the
> >> project.
> >>
> >> 'Users' is a wide term.  In the case of Sugar Labs, it can range from
> >> individuals, to companies, to national governments.  Anyone who takes
> >> a Sugar deliverable and builds on it to help someone learn is a user.
> >>
> >> To take a step back, we can think of adding value to Sugar Labs.  But,
> >> what is value? There are many definitions of value in a project such
> >> as Sugar Labs:
> >> Quality of code.
> >> Number of users.
> >> Number of headlines.
> >> Compliance to specific teaching pedagogies.
> >> 
> >>
> >> The notion of  value that I tend to looks at, from a 50,000 feet, is
> >> 'How does Sugar Labs create a large pool of users -- who benefit
> >> enough from using Sugar -- that they, and others, are willing to
> >> invest in improving Sugar'?
> >>
> >> As a rough model we can think of value as Educational Excellence(X),
> >> Technical Excellence(Y) and R

Re: [IAEP] Notes from GPA 7-21

[Caroline Meeks]

On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Caryl Bigenho wrote:

>  Hi Caroline and All,
>
>
> This is great stuff!  I hope you are working up a very detailed, "Grannie's
> Guide-No Fail" style set of teachers' instructions so that other
> (non-techie) teachers who don't have you there to help can replicate the
> things you are doing with the students.
>
>
> I love the way you document everything with the TODOs included. Excellent!
>
>
> The note from Laura Johns is very encouraging.  I guess it dispels 2 myths:
>
>
> 1) There aren't many Power PC Macs left in the schools
>
>
> 2) SoaS won't run on a Power PC Mac.
>
>
> It looks like we finally may have someone who can make it work.  Wouldn't
> it be great if it were ready to go by the CUE Conference in March 2010?
>
>
> They have asked me to apply to do another 1 hour session at CUE 2010.  I
> have to apply by early September.  It is really hard to come up with
> something flexible and generic enough to adjust to match the rapidly
> changing and developing things going on with OLPC and SugarLabs.  I am open
> to suggestions.
>

Hi Caryl,

We have an application in for one session and they want a second session?
What did we put down for the first one?

We are using Turtle Art a lot this summer so maybe a Turtle Art specific
session.  Turtle Art for math, social studies and ePortfolios.

>
> Caryl
>
>
> P.S. For the branded USB sticks...is the type you are ordering
> retractable?  Does it have a good loop to attach to a keychain or lanyard?
> If so, count me in for 10.
>
>
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>



-- 
Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com

617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax
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Re: [IAEP] [support-gang] An Opportunity to bring vital content tothe Sugar/XO world - Needs technical help.

[Gary C Martin]

On 27 Jul 2009, at 18:13, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 16:08, Gary C Martin  
> wrote:
>> On 22 Jul 2009, at 10:59, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 14:46, Costello, Rob
>>> R wrote:

 if you need some one to look at a fla or decompile a swf and have  
 a look
 at
 what the actionscript is doing i can probably help

 don't know anything much about gnash but have done lots of flash  
 coding
>>>
>>> Would be really great if you could run the .swf in soas and debug  
>>> the
>>> .fla in order to know why it isn't advancing to the next level. Once
>>> you get an explanation from the Flash side of things of why this
>>> happen, I think the Gnash developers will be able to find a fix in
>>> Gnash.
>>
>> Tomeu, for what it's worth I don't think this is anything todo with
>> Flash/Gnash incompatibility. The current eatboom SWF (and FLA  
>> source) is
>> simply not quite working (likely related to the quick change they  
>> made for
>> it to run outside of the rest of their system). I've tried with a  
>> number of
>> Adobe Flash player versions and plugins, including your current  
>> gnash rpms,
>> and they all fail to progress in the same way.
>>
>> After bin hexing the binary files to work out what version they  
>> were created
>> with, you will need to have the Adobe Flash 9 IDE to debug this  
>> code – my
>> last $$$ upgrade was for 7, so I can't help debug the current FLA  
>> from the
>> git rep.
>
> John can provide us with a Flash CS3 or Flash 8 version, would that
> help in any way?

Sorry not for me.

FWIW: If this is a blocker. I could install the Flash 30 day trial and  
attempt a one off eatboom fix for now, but it's not much of a FOSS  
solution going forwards...

Regards,
--Gary

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Re: [IAEP] Math4

[Sebastian Dziallas]

Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
> Hi,
>
> how is going the project? Anything we can give for testing to
> olpc-sur, boston pilots, etc?
>
> Regards,
>
> Tomeu

CC'ing the Math4 ML & Karlie here...

If we can help anyhow, also from a SoaS side of things, please let us 
know (how about getting these activities up on a.sl.o and all that 
mentioned in a press release? or a customized SoaS version?)!

Thanks,
--Sebastian
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Re: [IAEP] [support-gang] An Opportunity to bring vital content tothe Sugar/XO world - Needs technical help.

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 16:08, Gary C Martin wrote:
> On 22 Jul 2009, at 10:59, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 14:46, Costello, Rob
>> R wrote:
>>>
>>> if you need some one to look at a fla or decompile a swf and have a look
>>> at
>>> what the actionscript is doing i can probably help
>>>
>>> don't know anything much about gnash but have done lots of flash coding
>>
>> Would be really great if you could run the .swf in soas and debug the
>> .fla in order to know why it isn't advancing to the next level. Once
>> you get an explanation from the Flash side of things of why this
>> happen, I think the Gnash developers will be able to find a fix in
>> Gnash.
>
> Tomeu, for what it's worth I don't think this is anything todo with
> Flash/Gnash incompatibility. The current eatboom SWF (and FLA source) is
> simply not quite working (likely related to the quick change they made for
> it to run outside of the rest of their system). I've tried with a number of
> Adobe Flash player versions and plugins, including your current gnash rpms,
> and they all fail to progress in the same way.
>
> After bin hexing the binary files to work out what version they were created
> with, you will need to have the Adobe Flash 9 IDE to debug this code – my
> last $$$ upgrade was for 7, so I can't help debug the current FLA from the
> git rep.

John can provide us with a Flash CS3 or Flash 8 version, would that
help in any way?

Regards,

Tomeu


> Regards,
> --Gary
>
> P.S. Sorry if I'm repeating myself, there have been some off list emails and
> I'm loosing track of what I've reported to whom.
>
>
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Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] Next run of Sugar Labs Sticks

[Sameer Verma]

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Caroline Meeks
wrote:

> I'm going to place an order for more Sugar Labs branded USB sticks.
> The cost will be in the $7.50 to $9 per 2GB stick, depending on how
> many I order.
>
> Would anyone like to go in on the order so I can bring up the volume?
>
> I want them without caps this time so I'm going to go for this style
> (Saratoga) in red.
>
> Thanks,
> Caroline
>
>
>
> --
> Caroline Meeks
> Solution Grove
> carol...@solutiongrove.com
>
> 617-500-3488 - Office
> 505-213-3268 - Fax
>
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> market...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing
>
>
Hi Caroline,

Looks like OLPC-SF will get at least a dozen sticks. I'll send you more
precise numbers once I hear from others.

Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs - Directions of Growth

[Walter Bender]

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Caroline Meeks wrote:
> I'd like to build on this from the 100 ft level and Sugar on a Stick.
>
> I've been with kids this summer and when Sugar is working on the computer in
> front of them the experience is great. Lots of learning, great engagement,
> kids are willing to take on challenges.
>
> This fall I'd like to see lots of other people working with Sugar and small
> groups of students.
>
> Based on my experiences this summer there are some technical/logistical
> barriers I'd like to break down before I recruit teachers/parents/day care
> workers to try Sugar on a Stick in group settings.
>
> Here are what I think the barriers are:
>
> Very hard to customize your spin and then copy it for a hundred kids.

Can you break this down further? Are you suggesting it is hard to
create a customized key? to replicate the key for 100s of children? or
there is a need to customize keys per child? (a wholly new requirement
AFAIK for which it would be useful to here a use case).

> Sticks are dieing a lot! Like 1 or 2 every class.

It would be helpful to see real data here. I certainly haven't seen
these sorts of failure rates.

> Backup and recovery
> What is a reasonable expectation for the role of the XS in Sugar on a Stick
> deployments in the next 6 months?

If possible, we need a simple backup strategy independent of XS since
the population of XSs will lag behind...

> Collaboration is unreliable and thus frustrating.  Its working fairly well
> in the wired network at the GPA lab, but no other use case seems to work
> reliably.

In fact, once we had properly configured the customization process not
to mangle the public keys, collaboration at GPA seems to be quite
reliable and not at all frustrating. There are some issues with
workflow around sharing that is part of a separate discussion thread.

Regarding wireless collaboration, we do need to better diagnose the
various failure modes we have been seeing. But this has not been part
of the SoaS pilot experience at GPA or LGF.

> Using a CD helper take a lot of prep time before and after class. A floppy
> helper would reduce it.  A VM solution might also reduce it.

Some of this can be handled with better workflow. The CD can be
rejected once the USB is booted, so it doesn't have to include a
power-on / reject / power off cycle at the end of the class.

> I'll try to expand on these in the next week and come up with a plan of
> action for each.
>
> What are the other critical things we need to do in the next month or two
> that will allow teachers/parents/daycare workers to try Sugar on a Sick?
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 6:17 PM, David Farning 
> wrote:
>>
>> Over the last couple of weeks we have been talking about how to grow Sugar
>> Labs.
>>
>> Without looking at specific solutions, I would like to think about
>> framing Sugar Labs growth in three directions:
>> 1. Improve and stabilize the learning platform.
>> 2. Grow towards the student.
>> 3. Increase reach and impact.
>>
>> Growing in these directions will help Sugar Labs accomplish its
>> mission.  But, hand in hand with growth we must think about how our
>> structure as a community based projects affects that growth.
>>
>> The two most important factors driving growth in a community project are:
>> 1.  A _product_ that is valuable enough for others to test, use, and
>> improve.
>> 2.  A _project_ that encourages users to test, use, improve, and
>> participate in the project by sharing their improvements with the
>> project.
>>
>> 'Users' is a wide term.  In the case of Sugar Labs, it can range from
>> individuals, to companies, to national governments.  Anyone who takes
>> a Sugar deliverable and builds on it to help someone learn is a user.
>>
>> To take a step back, we can think of adding value to Sugar Labs.  But,
>> what is value? There are many definitions of value in a project such
>> as Sugar Labs:
>> Quality of code.
>> Number of users.
>> Number of headlines.
>> Compliance to specific teaching pedagogies.
>> 
>>
>> The notion of  value that I tend to looks at, from a 50,000 feet, is
>> 'How does Sugar Labs create a large pool of users -- who benefit
>> enough from using Sugar -- that they, and others, are willing to
>> invest in improving Sugar'?
>>
>> As a rough model we can think of value as Educational Excellence(X),
>> Technical Excellence(Y) and Reach and Impact(Z).
>>
>> Growth towards educational excellence represents extending the core
>> product towards the learner.  Possible steps include:
>>
>> Stable learning platform.
>> Easy distribution mechanism -- the shift from ./configure; make; make
>> to [rpm|apt-get] install  was huge.
>> Easy deployment process.
>> Creation of base learning activities/content.
>> Creation of specific learning curriculum to meet specific teaching needs.
>>
>> Going down this list, the groups involved involved tend to shift from
>> developers to practicing educators.  We need to think of growing to
>> include edu

Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs - Directions of Growth

[Caroline Meeks]

I'd like to build on this from the 100 ft level and Sugar on a Stick.

I've been with kids this summer and when Sugar is working on the computer in
front of them the experience is great. Lots of learning, great engagement,
kids are willing to take on challenges.

This fall I'd like to see lots of other people working with Sugar and small
groups of students.

Based on my experiences this summer there are some technical/logistical
barriers I'd like to break down before I recruit teachers/parents/day care
workers to try Sugar on a Stick in group settings.

Here are what I think the barriers are:

   - Very hard to customize your spin and then copy it for a hundred kids.
   - Sticks are dieing a lot! Like 1 or 2 every class.
   - Backup and recovery
   - What is a reasonable expectation for the role of the XS in Sugar on a
   Stick deployments in the next 6 months?
   - Collaboration is unreliable and thus frustrating.  Its working fairly
   well in the wired network at the GPA lab, but no other use case seems to
   work reliably.
   - Using a CD helper take a lot of prep time before and after class. A
   floppy helper would reduce it.  A VM solution might also reduce it.

I'll try to expand on these in the next week and come up with a plan of
action for each.

What are the other critical things we need to do in the next month or two
that will allow teachers/parents/daycare workers to try Sugar on a Sick?


On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 6:17 PM, David Farning wrote:

> Over the last couple of weeks we have been talking about how to grow Sugar
> Labs.
>
> Without looking at specific solutions, I would like to think about
> framing Sugar Labs growth in three directions:
> 1. Improve and stabilize the learning platform.
> 2. Grow towards the student.
> 3. Increase reach and impact.
>
> Growing in these directions will help Sugar Labs accomplish its
> mission.  But, hand in hand with growth we must think about how our
> structure as a community based projects affects that growth.
>
> The two most important factors driving growth in a community project are:
> 1.  A _product_ that is valuable enough for others to test, use, and
> improve.
> 2.  A _project_ that encourages users to test, use, improve, and
> participate in the project by sharing their improvements with the
> project.
>
> 'Users' is a wide term.  In the case of Sugar Labs, it can range from
> individuals, to companies, to national governments.  Anyone who takes
> a Sugar deliverable and builds on it to help someone learn is a user.
>
> To take a step back, we can think of adding value to Sugar Labs.  But,
> what is value? There are many definitions of value in a project such
> as Sugar Labs:
> Quality of code.
> Number of users.
> Number of headlines.
> Compliance to specific teaching pedagogies.
> 
>
> The notion of  value that I tend to looks at, from a 50,000 feet, is
> 'How does Sugar Labs create a large pool of users -- who benefit
> enough from using Sugar -- that they, and others, are willing to
> invest in improving Sugar'?
>
> As a rough model we can think of value as Educational Excellence(X),
> Technical Excellence(Y) and Reach and Impact(Z).
>
> Growth towards educational excellence represents extending the core
> product towards the learner.  Possible steps include:
>
> Stable learning platform.
> Easy distribution mechanism -- the shift from ./configure; make; make
> to [rpm|apt-get] install  was huge.
> Easy deployment process.
> Creation of base learning activities/content.
> Creation of specific learning curriculum to meet specific teaching needs.
>
> Going down this list, the groups involved involved tend to shift from
> developers to practicing educators.  We need to think of growing to
> include educators rather than crowding out developers.  As we move
> towards the right along the x-asis, each prior stage grows and
> improves along the y-axis
>
> In the larger context of adding value to the project, we can
> think of project visibility and desirability along the z-axis .  As
> the product grows towards the user and the quality of the product
> increases, the
> marketing team is able to increase the visibility and desirability
> (z-axis) of the product and project to more and more people.
>
> Another way to look at this, is to examine how a tree grows:)
>
> Tree growth is most easily measured in how much taller or wider the
> tree become as a result of linear grow of the trunk or branches. In
> addition to growing in length, new branches grow off of the trunk or
> existing branches.  As the length and number of the branches increase,
> the trunk and branches increase in width to provide both physical
> support and enough pores to transport water from the root to the
> leaves and transport energy from the leave to the roots.
>
> In this analogy, the length of the branches can represent market
> penetration.  Sugar must become useful enough to penetrate deeply into
> the learning occurring at individual schools.  As Sugar penetrate

Re: [IAEP] The Next Wave of Activity Sharing

[Costello, Rob R]

don't know how the Scratch site has negotiated this on a legal front but 
sharing and remixing of student generated content seems to work pretty well 
there  ...half a million projects uploaded there
http://scratch.mit.edu/

and that would be a tiny percentage of what is sitting on school networks etc

scratch is also cool i thats it one of the few places i can think of where all 
levels of expertise -beginner to expert - do form a user community ...getting 
that right is pretty rare

rob



From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org on behalf of Martin Langhoff
Sent: Sun 7/26/2009 7:09 PM
To: Tomeu Vizoso
Cc: iaep; de...@lists.laptop.org; Joshua Eddy; Bastien
Subject: Re: [IAEP] The Next Wave of Activity Sharing



On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
> That's what I was trying to explain ;) Though I do see some value in

It's a fantastic idea, but I have to concur with Tomeu -- make it work
_local_ (with the XS for example, though it doesn't have to be), and
from there push it upstream if possible, but *let users control this
explicitly*.

My long term plan (if I ever get to it!) is to do something like this
with Moodle+Mahara. Or perhaps Moodle->Moodle. So I'd love to see this
done.

When I write "let users control this explicitly", I mean: let kids
share this with their local (and safe) group, and let them choose to
publish more widely (to the internet) with the input from adults
(teachers, parents).

We had almost identical discussions with the "edublog" team, they
wanted to have kids blog directly to the internet. As things
progressed they realised it was a bad idea. Do search the discussion
lists for edublog to have more background.

In some countries, beyond being a bad idea, it is illegal. In the US
at least there are serious laws that will get teachers and schools
into lots of trouble if kids' privacy is breached. And yes, Internet
=== Breach of privacy.

cheers,



m
--
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [IAEP] [DESIGN] control center proposal for GNOME

[Sayamindu Dasgupta]

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Tomeu Vizoso wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Sun proposed this experience for a rework of the preferences system in GNOME:
>
> http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/Whiteboard/ControlCenter
>
> Might have interesting ideas for the future of the Sugar settings panel?
>


I like the way they are handling subitems:

http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/Whiteboard/ControlCenter/Sun/FrontPage?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=PP-D6b.jpg
http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/Whiteboard/ControlCenter/Sun/FrontPage?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=PP-D6c.jpg

This is sorely needed - eg, for the keyboard section I am working on,
adding anything other than the layout[1] would make the section
terribly cluttered. However, at some point we would probably want to
see customizable short-cuts, behaviour of special modifier keys (Meta,
Super etc) and maybe things like key repeat rate, etc.

Thanks,
Sayamindu

[1] http://people.sugarlabs.org/sayamindu/cpanel_kbd.png

-- 
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[http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings]
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[IAEP] [DESIGN] control center proposal for GNOME

[Tomeu Vizoso]

Hi,

Sun proposed this experience for a rework of the preferences system in GNOME:

http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/Whiteboard/ControlCenter

Might have interesting ideas for the future of the Sugar settings panel?

Regards,

Tomeu
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[IAEP] Math4

[Tomeu Vizoso]

Hi,

how is going the project? Anything we can give for testing to
olpc-sur, boston pilots, etc?

Regards,

Tomeu
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[IAEP] Youngster Meeting 2009 (was Re: etoys, moodle, gcompris, kde-edu and other sister projects)

[Tomeu Vizoso]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 19:02, Kurt Gramlich wrote:
> * Tomeu Vizoso  [090724 18:24]:
>
>> Wonder what we could do so that these other projects feel more
>> welcomed to our community and more collaboration opportunities are
>> taken. Any ideas?
>
> http://wiki.skolelinux.de/YoungsterMeeting2009
>
> perhaps?

We have several German-speaking people in the community, though the
Austrian part of it might be now a bit spread around the world.

>From the wiki seems to me like would be a good opportunity to discuss
free software in classrooms and see what role could have Sugar there,
specially in German schools.

Simon is already using Sugar in schools in Berlin and Sebastian had
interest in free software adoption in schools IIRC. Maybe the Etoys
guys would be interested as well?

Regards,

Tomeu

>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tomeu
>
> Regards/AmicaLinuxement/Saludos/Viele Gruesse!
> Kurt Gramlich
> Projektleitung skolelinux.de
> --
> k...@skolelinux.de
> GnuPG Key ID 0xE263FCD4
> http://www.skolelinux.de
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