Re: [IAEP] Turtles All The Way Out

[Walter Bender]

On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 8:11 PM, John Gilmore  wrote:

> I had to think about this some before having a useful response.
>

Lots of good ideas here, so thank you for taking the time.

>
> > I cannot speak for every Sugar developer, but the approach I have tried
> to
> > take with Turtle Art is a bit different than you are describing. The
> > block-based programming environment is not meant to be a substitute for
> real
> > tools; it is meant to be a place to get started; to learn that you can
> write
> > and modify code; and to provide multiple motivations and launch pads for
> > getting into the "real" thing. I've worked pretty hard to make the
> > "structured thing" behind the view more approachable, and have provided
> > multiple ways in and out: exporting your "fluffy" view into Logo that can
> be
> > run in Brian Harvey's text-based Logo environment; direct, in-line
> > extensions written in Python; the ability to create new blocks by
> importing
> > Python; a plugin mechanism for making major interventions; and a
> refactoring
> > of the underlying structures to make the code more approachable. (The
> source
> > code is peppered with comments and examples of how to make
> modifications.)
> > None of these interventions are intended to keep the kids programming in
> > Turtle Art. They are all intended to get the kids started down the path
> of
> > "real" programming. But I content that we need to engage them; let them
> > discover that they can write code; and make changes; and that it is not
> > something just for "others" but for everyone.
>
> Walter, this is a worthwhile approach.
>
> But it was all invisible from an OLPC user's point of view (i.e. a
> child's).  All they get is a GUI in which they can hook blocks
> together and see graphics.
>
> Even finding the library of fun looking pre-existing designs was hard
> (it's hiding behind a bizarre looking icon that you can't even see
> until you go to a different tab in the Frame than the default one).
> If you show a kid how to find one of those designs, they get the idea
> of TurtleArt, and can modify them to see how the design changes.
> Until they see a complete, working design in 10 blocks including a
> loop, TurtleArt is a morass where new users can drag things around but
> it doesn't do anything fun.
>
> (Note I'm working from memory of a several-year-old TurtleArt.  Perhaps
> it's better now.)
>

Please grab a recent version. It is quite different from even a year ago.

>
> (Also, it's hard to make the leap from a slow turtle leaving marks
> behind as it goes two steps and turns, to the whole screen being
> filled with colors in a flash.  Most things in the world don't have
> the many-orders-of-magnitude speedups that we in computing have become
> blase about.  It wouldn't occur to us that to paint an entire wall in
> a second, we should tell the painter to move the brush one inch and
> then repeat that over and over until done.  We'd look for a spray gun,
> or toss a whole bucket of paint, or recruit a crowd of painters, or
> something.  Fast things and painstaking things aren't disjoint in
> computing, as they are elsewhere; how do you teach that powerful insight?)
>

Cute idea for a project: "fill the screen." There are of course many ways to
do it: from using the fill-screen block to setting the pen size to the
screen width to discovering the repeat block to discovering that you can
launch as many turtles as you'd like, each of which has a pen.

>
> > I am open to suggestions as to how to get more kids to move on from
> Turtle
> > Art to ___ (insert you favorite "real" programming environment here).
>
> First, have Turtle Art start up not with a blank slate, but by
> bringing in one of the predefined designs -- preferably at random, so
> they'll see more of the corpus as they run it over and over.
>

I have gone back and forth on this one. I think that you are right: I should
start with a program on the screen, probably a simple example of a spiral
that introduces the concepts of loops and variables (and perhaps sensors).


>
> Second, I suggest that if some blocks are implemented in short bits of
> Python, that there be a user interface for seeing and modifying those
> short bits of Python (by examining the block in the GUI).  This will
> provide a bridge for exploring kids to notice that the blocks are
> built out of short bits of structured text -- and that they can
> understand and modify those texts.  If they've already figured out
> that they can modify the numeric blocks, then they'll try modifying
> these too.  The thing that pops the blocks open shouldn't be too hard
> to find -- perhaps a double-click, or something else that they'll do
> by accident sometime.
>

All of the blocks are implemented as short bits of Python. But I deferred to
the Sugar View Source mechanism for revealing the contents. I use a simple
plug-in mechanism to define blocks and palettes, but the disconnect is that
I don't (generally) edit them in line; rath

[IAEP] [ANN] Waveplace starting another five laptop projects in Haiti

[Timothy Falconer]

Hello everyone,

Waveplace will be traveling back to Haiti in ten days to start enough five 
laptop projects, bringing our total there to 19 schools.

I'll be blogging daily starting today, focusing this time on the people and 
emotions involved, so please tune in:

http://waveplace.org/news/blog/

You can also follow my Twitter feed to get more regular updates:

http://twitter.com/teefal

Take care,
Tim

--
Timothy Falconer
Waveplace Foundation
http://waveplace.org
+ 1 610 797 3100 x33




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Re: [IAEP] [ANN] Waveplace starting another five laptop projects in Haiti

[Timothy Falconer]

Ah, sorry about that. 

Start *another* five laptop projects, not "enough".  

There are never enough :)

Take care,
Tim

--
Timothy Falconer
Waveplace Foundation
http://waveplace.org
+ 1 610 797 3100 x33


On Jun 7, 2011, at 8:57 AM, Timothy Falconer wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
> Waveplace will be traveling back to Haiti in ten days to start enough five 
> laptop projects, bringing our total there to 19 schools.
> 
> I'll be blogging daily starting today, focusing this time on the people and 
> emotions involved, so please tune in:
> 
> http://waveplace.org/news/blog/
> 
> You can also follow my Twitter feed to get more regular updates:
> 
> http://twitter.com/teefal
> 
> Take care,
> Tim
> 
> --
> Timothy Falconer
> Waveplace Foundation
> http://waveplace.org
> + 1 610 797 3100 x33
> 
> 
> 
> 

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[IAEP] [SLOBS] meeting reminder

[Walter Bender]

We will be having a Sugar oversight board meeting on Thursday, 9 June at
18:00 EST (23 UTC) on irc.freenode.net #sugar-meeting.

We have 4 items on the agenda:

(1) Scratch License (Walter)
(2) OSD vs FS definition of FOSS licenses (Walter)
(3) Membership fees (Bernie)
(4) 3rd party Sugar merchandising (Dogi)

Please join us.

regards.

-walter

-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] calibre + OPDS for offline book catalogs.

[Gonzalo Odiard]

I will download Calibre and try it. If this not works, we can use code from
Pathagar to create a catalog
or use python to create the catalog.xml file with the data in the csv file,
or use another
simpler format (like json) to create local catalogs.
I only need a little of time. This week si packed.

Gonzalo


On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 5:54 PM, James Simmons  wrote:

> Gonzalo,
>
> I've been investigating OPDS with calibre as a way of distributing
> books with an offline catalog.  As you know, there has always been an
> interest in doing this in areas where Internet access is unavailable.
>
> With the help of calibre-OPDS I was able to create both a website and
> an OPDS catalog that can easily live in an Apache webroot, a thumb
> drive, or a Dropbox folder.  In this way you can easily create a
> static website that does NOT require calibre to be running.
>
> Now the bad news: the OPDS catalog seems to be more complex that what
> GetBooks can deal with.  It is organized as a hierarchy of XML files,
> with lists by Author, Title, Rating, etc.  Instead of having just one
> XML file with the whole catalog you have a bunch of them.
>
> The software is described here:
>
>
> http://dearauthor.com/ebooks/create-your-own-cloud-of-ebooks-with-calibre-calibre-opds-dropbox/
>
> You might try this yourself.  The software is in Java and is really
> simple to set up, so you can generate a test OPDS index in no time
> from data in a calibre database.
>
> The static website is actually quite useful, and could be used from
> the Browse Activity if the website was stored on a thumb drive.  That
> might be an alternative to recommend to those who need to distribute
> books without Internet access.
>
> James Simmons
>
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Re: [IAEP] DesignBlocks

[Rafael Ortiz]

On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Christoph Derndorfer <
e0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:

> On a somewhat related note:
>
> Microsoft Research introduced TouchStudio for Windows Phone 7
> (http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/touchstudio/default.aspx)
> to allow development right on the phones the other day. The video
> (
> http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Peli/TouchStudio-Script-Your-Phone-on-Your-Phone-Reloaded
> )
> is well worth a look in my opinion.
>
> Another similar effort is the Catdroid project
> (http://code.google.com/p/catroid/) which is being developed at Graz
> University of Technology in Graz, Austria - and currently sponsored via
> GSoC - and aims to be "an on-device graphical programming language for
> Android devices that is inspired by the Scratch".
>
> While it's early days for both projects I think that anyone working on
> efforts in this area should keep an eye on them. Lessons learned from
> these (touchscreen) on-device environments could be particularly useful
> looking towards the XO-3 and other tablets.
>
> Cheers,
> Christoph
>
> Am 06.06.2011 20:13, schrieb ana.cichero:
> > There is a pretty group of users for Processing here in Montevideo!
> >
> > I think the mailing list and the group is still active, some of them
> > could get envolved.
> >
> > mnav-arte-cod...@googlegroups.com
> >   ( I have their addresses
> > in other case )
> >
> >
> > It may be a better investment of our resources to port Processing
> > (which is Java-based) to Sugar.
> >
> > -walter
> >
> > --
> > Walter Bender
> > Sugar Labs
> > http://www.sugarlabs.org
> >
> >
> > ___
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org 
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >
>
More info about DesignBlocks actual state


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evhan55/designblocks-visual-programming-for-artists/posts/84640

And also I found an interesting way to control
arduino via JS, (Unfortunately it also needs flash).

 http://www.schillmania.com/projects/arduino-js/

Anyone knows similar projects ?

Still the Java based arduino IDE is much more powerful.

cheers.

> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
> --
> Christoph Derndorfer
> co-editor, www.olpcnews.com
> e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
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Re: [IAEP] Turtles All The Way Out

[Dr. Gerald Ardito]

Walter and Edward,

I am very interested in this conversation.
As you know, I have been working with 5th graders and XO Laptops for the
past 3 years in the middle school in which I teach.
For next year, I have designed a pilot program to teach our 6th graders
about programming software and devices. I have seen the sequence as
beginning with software and then leading to robots of some kind.
I think Turtle Art is a perfect place to start, especially given this
conversation, and the availability of the XOs.
So, I am willing to test out the work you are doing with these students.

I have some questions:
1. Will the recent version of Turtle Art (Turtle Blocks) run on the latest
XO build?
2. In order to use sensors, what kind of devices are you talking about
(WeDos?; Arduino? Something else?).
3. Do you have or know of a curriculum that addresses our project?

Thanks.
Gerald

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 8:11 PM, John Gilmore  wrote:
>
>> I had to think about this some before having a useful response.
>>
>
> Lots of good ideas here, so thank you for taking the time.
>
>>
>> > I cannot speak for every Sugar developer, but the approach I have tried
>> to
>> > take with Turtle Art is a bit different than you are describing. The
>> > block-based programming environment is not meant to be a substitute for
>> real
>> > tools; it is meant to be a place to get started; to learn that you can
>> write
>> > and modify code; and to provide multiple motivations and launch pads for
>> > getting into the "real" thing. I've worked pretty hard to make the
>> > "structured thing" behind the view more approachable, and have provided
>> > multiple ways in and out: exporting your "fluffy" view into Logo that
>> can be
>> > run in Brian Harvey's text-based Logo environment; direct, in-line
>> > extensions written in Python; the ability to create new blocks by
>> importing
>> > Python; a plugin mechanism for making major interventions; and a
>> refactoring
>> > of the underlying structures to make the code more approachable. (The
>> source
>> > code is peppered with comments and examples of how to make
>> modifications.)
>> > None of these interventions are intended to keep the kids programming in
>> > Turtle Art. They are all intended to get the kids started down the path
>> of
>> > "real" programming. But I content that we need to engage them; let them
>>
>> > discover that they can write code; and make changes; and that it is not
>> > something just for "others" but for everyone.
>>
>> Walter, this is a worthwhile approach.
>>
>> But it was all invisible from an OLPC user's point of view (i.e. a
>> child's).  All they get is a GUI in which they can hook blocks
>> together and see graphics.
>>
>> Even finding the library of fun looking pre-existing designs was hard
>> (it's hiding behind a bizarre looking icon that you can't even see
>> until you go to a different tab in the Frame than the default one).
>> If you show a kid how to find one of those designs, they get the idea
>> of TurtleArt, and can modify them to see how the design changes.
>> Until they see a complete, working design in 10 blocks including a
>> loop, TurtleArt is a morass where new users can drag things around but
>> it doesn't do anything fun.
>>
>> (Note I'm working from memory of a several-year-old TurtleArt.  Perhaps
>> it's better now.)
>>
>
> Please grab a recent version. It is quite different from even a year ago.
>
>>
>> (Also, it's hard to make the leap from a slow turtle leaving marks
>> behind as it goes two steps and turns, to the whole screen being
>> filled with colors in a flash.  Most things in the world don't have
>> the many-orders-of-magnitude speedups that we in computing have become
>> blase about.  It wouldn't occur to us that to paint an entire wall in
>> a second, we should tell the painter to move the brush one inch and
>> then repeat that over and over until done.  We'd look for a spray gun,
>> or toss a whole bucket of paint, or recruit a crowd of painters, or
>> something.  Fast things and painstaking things aren't disjoint in
>> computing, as they are elsewhere; how do you teach that powerful insight?)
>>
>
> Cute idea for a project: "fill the screen." There are of course many ways
> to do it: from using the fill-screen block to setting the pen size to the
> screen width to discovering the repeat block to discovering that you can
> launch as many turtles as you'd like, each of which has a pen.
>
>>
>> > I am open to suggestions as to how to get more kids to move on from
>> Turtle
>> > Art to ___ (insert you favorite "real" programming environment here).
>>
>> First, have Turtle Art start up not with a blank slate, but by
>> bringing in one of the predefined designs -- preferably at random, so
>> they'll see more of the corpus as they run it over and over.
>>
>
> I have gone back and forth on this one. I think that you are right: I
> should start with a program on the screen, probabl

Re: [IAEP] Turtles All The Way Out

[Walter Bender]

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
wrote:

> Walter and Edward,
>
> I am very interested in this conversation.
> As you know, I have been working with 5th graders and XO Laptops for the
> past 3 years in the middle school in which I teach.
> For next year, I have designed a pilot program to teach our 6th graders
> about programming software and devices. I have seen the sequence as
> beginning with software and then leading to robots of some kind.
> I think Turtle Art is a perfect place to start, especially given this
> conversation, and the availability of the XOs.
> So, I am willing to test out the work you are doing with these students.
>
>  I have some questions:
> 1. Will the recent version of Turtle Art (Turtle Blocks) run on the latest
> XO build?
>
Yes. v108 should run on any XO build.

2. In order to use sensors, what kind of devices are you talking about
> (WeDos?; Arduino? Something else?).
>
Those are all nice, but just using the microphone in works nicely. Plus you
have the camera.


> 3. Do you have or know of a curriculum that addresses our project?
>
There are lots of bits and pieces. Regarding robots, there is a nice book
written by Fred Martin that came out maybe 5 years ago. (Fred was one of the
principal designers of the original Lego robotics kits at MIT and helped
develop with 6.270 curriculum. He teaches at UMass-Lowell.

enjoy.

-walter

>
> Thanks.
> Gerald
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Walter Bender wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 8:11 PM, John Gilmore  wrote:
>>
>>> I had to think about this some before having a useful response.
>>>
>>
>> Lots of good ideas here, so thank you for taking the time.
>>
>>>
>>> > I cannot speak for every Sugar developer, but the approach I have tried
>>> to
>>> > take with Turtle Art is a bit different than you are describing. The
>>> > block-based programming environment is not meant to be a substitute for
>>> real
>>> > tools; it is meant to be a place to get started; to learn that you can
>>> write
>>> > and modify code; and to provide multiple motivations and launch pads
>>> for
>>> > getting into the "real" thing. I've worked pretty hard to make the
>>> > "structured thing" behind the view more approachable, and have provided
>>> > multiple ways in and out: exporting your "fluffy" view into Logo that
>>> can be
>>> > run in Brian Harvey's text-based Logo environment; direct, in-line
>>> > extensions written in Python; the ability to create new blocks by
>>> importing
>>> > Python; a plugin mechanism for making major interventions; and a
>>> refactoring
>>> > of the underlying structures to make the code more approachable. (The
>>> source
>>> > code is peppered with comments and examples of how to make
>>> modifications.)
>>> > None of these interventions are intended to keep the kids programming
>>> in
>>> > Turtle Art. They are all intended to get the kids started down the path
>>> of
>>> > "real" programming. But I content that we need to engage them; let them
>>>
>>> > discover that they can write code; and make changes; and that it is not
>>> > something just for "others" but for everyone.
>>>
>>> Walter, this is a worthwhile approach.
>>>
>>> But it was all invisible from an OLPC user's point of view (i.e. a
>>> child's).  All they get is a GUI in which they can hook blocks
>>> together and see graphics.
>>>
>>> Even finding the library of fun looking pre-existing designs was hard
>>> (it's hiding behind a bizarre looking icon that you can't even see
>>> until you go to a different tab in the Frame than the default one).
>>> If you show a kid how to find one of those designs, they get the idea
>>> of TurtleArt, and can modify them to see how the design changes.
>>> Until they see a complete, working design in 10 blocks including a
>>> loop, TurtleArt is a morass where new users can drag things around but
>>> it doesn't do anything fun.
>>>
>>> (Note I'm working from memory of a several-year-old TurtleArt.  Perhaps
>>> it's better now.)
>>>
>>
>> Please grab a recent version. It is quite different from even a year ago.
>>
>>>
>>> (Also, it's hard to make the leap from a slow turtle leaving marks
>>> behind as it goes two steps and turns, to the whole screen being
>>> filled with colors in a flash.  Most things in the world don't have
>>> the many-orders-of-magnitude speedups that we in computing have become
>>> blase about.  It wouldn't occur to us that to paint an entire wall in
>>> a second, we should tell the painter to move the brush one inch and
>>> then repeat that over and over until done.  We'd look for a spray gun,
>>> or toss a whole bucket of paint, or recruit a crowd of painters, or
>>> something.  Fast things and painstaking things aren't disjoint in
>>> computing, as they are elsewhere; how do you teach that powerful
>>> insight?)
>>>
>>
>> Cute idea for a project: "fill the screen." There are of course many ways
>> to do it: from using the fill-screen block to setting the pen size to the
>> screen 

Re: [IAEP] DesignBlocks

[Walter Bender]

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Rafael Ortiz wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Christoph Derndorfer <
> e0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>
>> On a somewhat related note:
>>
>> Microsoft Research introduced TouchStudio for Windows Phone 7
>> (http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/touchstudio/default.aspx)
>> to allow development right on the phones the other day. The video
>> (
>> http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Peli/TouchStudio-Script-Your-Phone-on-Your-Phone-Reloaded
>> )
>> is well worth a look in my opinion.
>>
>> Another similar effort is the Catdroid project
>> (http://code.google.com/p/catroid/) which is being developed at Graz
>> University of Technology in Graz, Austria - and currently sponsored via
>> GSoC - and aims to be "an on-device graphical programming language for
>> Android devices that is inspired by the Scratch".
>>
>> While it's early days for both projects I think that anyone working on
>> efforts in this area should keep an eye on them. Lessons learned from
>> these (touchscreen) on-device environments could be particularly useful
>> looking towards the XO-3 and other tablets.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Christoph
>>
>> Am 06.06.2011 20:13, schrieb ana.cichero:
>> > There is a pretty group of users for Processing here in Montevideo!
>> >
>> > I think the mailing list and the group is still active, some of them
>> > could get envolved.
>> >
>> > mnav-arte-cod...@googlegroups.com
>> >   ( I have their
>> addresses
>> > in other case )
>> >
>> >
>> > It may be a better investment of our resources to port Processing
>> > (which is Java-based) to Sugar.
>> >
>> > -walter
>> >
>> > --
>> > Walter Bender
>> > Sugar Labs
>> > http://www.sugarlabs.org
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org 
>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>> >
>>
> More info about DesignBlocks actual state
>
>
> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/evhan55/designblocks-visual-programming-for-artists/posts/84640
>
> And also I found an interesting way to control
> arduino via JS, (Unfortunately it also needs flash).
>
>  http://www.schillmania.com/projects/arduino-js/
>
> Anyone knows similar projects ?
>
> Still the Java based arduino IDE is much more powerful.
>
> cheers.
>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>
>> --
>> Christoph Derndorfer
>> co-editor, www.olpcnews.com
>> e-mail: christ...@olpcnews.com
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>
>
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>

Butia is a nice way to control Arduino (from Turtle Art). No flash
required... just Python.

regards.

-walter

-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] Turtles All The Way Out

[Dr. Gerald Ardito]

Walter,

Thanks. And I'll check out Fred Martin's book.
If you are up for another visit to us in the Fall to do some more intensive
Turtle Art work, we'd love to have you.


Gerald

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito  > wrote:
>
>> Walter and Edward,
>>
>> I am very interested in this conversation.
>> As you know, I have been working with 5th graders and XO Laptops for the
>> past 3 years in the middle school in which I teach.
>> For next year, I have designed a pilot program to teach our 6th graders
>> about programming software and devices. I have seen the sequence as
>> beginning with software and then leading to robots of some kind.
>> I think Turtle Art is a perfect place to start, especially given this
>> conversation, and the availability of the XOs.
>> So, I am willing to test out the work you are doing with these students.
>>
>>  I have some questions:
>> 1. Will the recent version of Turtle Art (Turtle Blocks) run on the latest
>> XO build?
>>
> Yes. v108 should run on any XO build.
>
> 2. In order to use sensors, what kind of devices are you talking about
>> (WeDos?; Arduino? Something else?).
>>
> Those are all nice, but just using the microphone in works nicely. Plus you
> have the camera.
>
>
>> 3. Do you have or know of a curriculum that addresses our project?
>>
> There are lots of bits and pieces. Regarding robots, there is a nice book
> written by Fred Martin that came out maybe 5 years ago. (Fred was one of the
> principal designers of the original Lego robotics kits at MIT and helped
> develop with 6.270 curriculum. He teaches at UMass-Lowell.
>
> enjoy.
>
> -walter
>
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Gerald
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Walter Bender wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 8:11 PM, John Gilmore  wrote:
>>>
 I had to think about this some before having a useful response.

>>>
>>> Lots of good ideas here, so thank you for taking the time.
>>>

 > I cannot speak for every Sugar developer, but the approach I have
 tried to
 > take with Turtle Art is a bit different than you are describing. The
 > block-based programming environment is not meant to be a substitute
 for real
 > tools; it is meant to be a place to get started; to learn that you can
 write
 > and modify code; and to provide multiple motivations and launch pads
 for
 > getting into the "real" thing. I've worked pretty hard to make the
 > "structured thing" behind the view more approachable, and have
 provided
 > multiple ways in and out: exporting your "fluffy" view into Logo that
 can be
 > run in Brian Harvey's text-based Logo environment; direct, in-line
 > extensions written in Python; the ability to create new blocks by
 importing
 > Python; a plugin mechanism for making major interventions; and a
 refactoring
 > of the underlying structures to make the code more approachable. (The
 source
 > code is peppered with comments and examples of how to make
 modifications.)
 > None of these interventions are intended to keep the kids programming
 in
 > Turtle Art. They are all intended to get the kids started down the
 path of
 > "real" programming. But I content that we need to engage them; let
 them

 > discover that they can write code; and make changes; and that it is
 not
 > something just for "others" but for everyone.

 Walter, this is a worthwhile approach.

 But it was all invisible from an OLPC user's point of view (i.e. a
 child's).  All they get is a GUI in which they can hook blocks
 together and see graphics.

 Even finding the library of fun looking pre-existing designs was hard
 (it's hiding behind a bizarre looking icon that you can't even see
 until you go to a different tab in the Frame than the default one).
 If you show a kid how to find one of those designs, they get the idea
 of TurtleArt, and can modify them to see how the design changes.
 Until they see a complete, working design in 10 blocks including a
 loop, TurtleArt is a morass where new users can drag things around but
 it doesn't do anything fun.

 (Note I'm working from memory of a several-year-old TurtleArt.  Perhaps
 it's better now.)

>>>
>>> Please grab a recent version. It is quite different from even a year ago.
>>>
>>>

 (Also, it's hard to make the leap from a slow turtle leaving marks
 behind as it goes two steps and turns, to the whole screen being
 filled with colors in a flash.  Most things in the world don't have
 the many-orders-of-magnitude speedups that we in computing have become
 blase about.  It wouldn't occur to us that to paint an entire wall in
 a second, we should tell the painter to move the brush one inch and
 then repeat that over and over until done.  We'd look for a spray gun,
 or t

Re: [IAEP] Turtles All The Way Out

[Walter Bender]

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:15 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
wrote:

> Walter,
>
> Thanks. And I'll check out Fred Martin's book.
> If you are up for another visit to us in the Fall to do some more intensive
> Turtle Art work, we'd love to have you.
>

Sounds like fun. Maybe early in the semester to get them up and running.

-walter


>
>
> Gerald
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito <
>> gerald.ard...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Walter and Edward,
>>>
>>> I am very interested in this conversation.
>>> As you know, I have been working with 5th graders and XO Laptops for the
>>> past 3 years in the middle school in which I teach.
>>> For next year, I have designed a pilot program to teach our 6th graders
>>> about programming software and devices. I have seen the sequence as
>>> beginning with software and then leading to robots of some kind.
>>> I think Turtle Art is a perfect place to start, especially given this
>>> conversation, and the availability of the XOs.
>>> So, I am willing to test out the work you are doing with these students.
>>>
>>>  I have some questions:
>>> 1. Will the recent version of Turtle Art (Turtle Blocks) run on the
>>> latest XO build?
>>>
>> Yes. v108 should run on any XO build.
>>
>> 2. In order to use sensors, what kind of devices are you talking about
>>> (WeDos?; Arduino? Something else?).
>>>
>> Those are all nice, but just using the microphone in works nicely. Plus
>> you have the camera.
>>
>>
>>> 3. Do you have or know of a curriculum that addresses our project?
>>>
>> There are lots of bits and pieces. Regarding robots, there is a nice book
>> written by Fred Martin that came out maybe 5 years ago. (Fred was one of the
>> principal designers of the original Lego robotics kits at MIT and helped
>> develop with 6.270 curriculum. He teaches at UMass-Lowell.
>>
>> enjoy.
>>
>> -walter
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> Gerald
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Walter Bender 
>>> wrote:
>>>


 On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 8:11 PM, John Gilmore  wrote:

> I had to think about this some before having a useful response.
>

 Lots of good ideas here, so thank you for taking the time.

>
> > I cannot speak for every Sugar developer, but the approach I have
> tried to
> > take with Turtle Art is a bit different than you are describing. The
> > block-based programming environment is not meant to be a substitute
> for real
> > tools; it is meant to be a place to get started; to learn that you
> can write
> > and modify code; and to provide multiple motivations and launch pads
> for
> > getting into the "real" thing. I've worked pretty hard to make the
> > "structured thing" behind the view more approachable, and have
> provided
> > multiple ways in and out: exporting your "fluffy" view into Logo that
> can be
> > run in Brian Harvey's text-based Logo environment; direct, in-line
> > extensions written in Python; the ability to create new blocks by
> importing
> > Python; a plugin mechanism for making major interventions; and a
> refactoring
> > of the underlying structures to make the code more approachable. (The
> source
> > code is peppered with comments and examples of how to make
> modifications.)
> > None of these interventions are intended to keep the kids programming
> in
> > Turtle Art. They are all intended to get the kids started down the
> path of
> > "real" programming. But I content that we need to engage them; let
> them
>
> > discover that they can write code; and make changes; and that it is
> not
> > something just for "others" but for everyone.
>
> Walter, this is a worthwhile approach.
>
> But it was all invisible from an OLPC user's point of view (i.e. a
> child's).  All they get is a GUI in which they can hook blocks
> together and see graphics.
>
> Even finding the library of fun looking pre-existing designs was hard
> (it's hiding behind a bizarre looking icon that you can't even see
> until you go to a different tab in the Frame than the default one).
> If you show a kid how to find one of those designs, they get the idea
> of TurtleArt, and can modify them to see how the design changes.
> Until they see a complete, working design in 10 blocks including a
> loop, TurtleArt is a morass where new users can drag things around but
> it doesn't do anything fun.
>
> (Note I'm working from memory of a several-year-old TurtleArt.  Perhaps
> it's better now.)
>

 Please grab a recent version. It is quite different from even a year
 ago.

>
> (Also, it's hard to make the leap from a slow turtle leaving marks
> behind as it goes two steps and turns, to the whole screen being
> filled with colors in a flash.  Most things in the world don't ha

Re: [IAEP] Turtles All The Way Out

[Dr. Gerald Ardito]

Walter,

That would be great. Thanks.
Can you look and see when in September might work for you?

Gerald

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:15 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito  > wrote:
>
>> Walter,
>>
>> Thanks. And I'll check out Fred Martin's book.
>> If you are up for another visit to us in the Fall to do some more
>> intensive Turtle Art work, we'd love to have you.
>>
>
> Sounds like fun. Maybe early in the semester to get them up and running.
>
> -walter
>
>
>>
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito <
>>> gerald.ard...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Walter and Edward,

 I am very interested in this conversation.
 As you know, I have been working with 5th graders and XO Laptops for the
 past 3 years in the middle school in which I teach.
 For next year, I have designed a pilot program to teach our 6th graders
 about programming software and devices. I have seen the sequence as
 beginning with software and then leading to robots of some kind.
 I think Turtle Art is a perfect place to start, especially given this
 conversation, and the availability of the XOs.
 So, I am willing to test out the work you are doing with these students.

  I have some questions:
 1. Will the recent version of Turtle Art (Turtle Blocks) run on the
 latest XO build?

>>> Yes. v108 should run on any XO build.
>>>
>>> 2. In order to use sensors, what kind of devices are you talking about
 (WeDos?; Arduino? Something else?).

>>> Those are all nice, but just using the microphone in works nicely. Plus
>>> you have the camera.
>>>
>>>
 3. Do you have or know of a curriculum that addresses our project?

>>> There are lots of bits and pieces. Regarding robots, there is a nice book
>>> written by Fred Martin that came out maybe 5 years ago. (Fred was one of the
>>> principal designers of the original Lego robotics kits at MIT and helped
>>> develop with 6.270 curriculum. He teaches at UMass-Lowell.
>>>
>>> enjoy.
>>>
>>> -walter
>>>

 Thanks.
 Gerald

 On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Walter Bender 
 wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 8:11 PM, John Gilmore  wrote:
>
>> I had to think about this some before having a useful response.
>>
>
> Lots of good ideas here, so thank you for taking the time.
>
>>
>> > I cannot speak for every Sugar developer, but the approach I have
>> tried to
>> > take with Turtle Art is a bit different than you are describing. The
>> > block-based programming environment is not meant to be a substitute
>> for real
>> > tools; it is meant to be a place to get started; to learn that you
>> can write
>> > and modify code; and to provide multiple motivations and launch pads
>> for
>> > getting into the "real" thing. I've worked pretty hard to make the
>> > "structured thing" behind the view more approachable, and have
>> provided
>> > multiple ways in and out: exporting your "fluffy" view into Logo
>> that can be
>> > run in Brian Harvey's text-based Logo environment; direct, in-line
>> > extensions written in Python; the ability to create new blocks by
>> importing
>> > Python; a plugin mechanism for making major interventions; and a
>> refactoring
>> > of the underlying structures to make the code more approachable.
>> (The source
>> > code is peppered with comments and examples of how to make
>> modifications.)
>> > None of these interventions are intended to keep the kids
>> programming in
>> > Turtle Art. They are all intended to get the kids started down the
>> path of
>> > "real" programming. But I content that we need to engage them; let
>> them
>>
>> > discover that they can write code; and make changes; and that it is
>> not
>> > something just for "others" but for everyone.
>>
>> Walter, this is a worthwhile approach.
>>
>> But it was all invisible from an OLPC user's point of view (i.e. a
>> child's).  All they get is a GUI in which they can hook blocks
>> together and see graphics.
>>
>> Even finding the library of fun looking pre-existing designs was hard
>> (it's hiding behind a bizarre looking icon that you can't even see
>> until you go to a different tab in the Frame than the default one).
>> If you show a kid how to find one of those designs, they get the idea
>> of TurtleArt, and can modify them to see how the design changes.
>> Until they see a complete, working design in 10 blocks including a
>> loop, TurtleArt is a morass where new users can drag things around but
>> it doesn't do anything fun.
>>
>> (Note I'm working from memory of a several-year-old TurtleArt.
>>  Perhaps
>> it's better now.)
>>
>
>

Re: [IAEP] [squeakland] [ANN] Waveplace starting another five laptop projects in Haiti

[Kenneth Wyrick]

great to hear about waveplace activities and plans.
i'm in the process of joining the ranks of the olpc movement, here in SoCal

it's interesting that you are in Bethehem PA were a long time buddy was
born...

i'm in the assessment/design phase to plan for the establishment of a
mobile SoCal olpc XOWiki repair, lending and presentation lab fleet
service. I need help on setting up olpc servers within central la
communities, where i reside.

To ramp up for what I'm doing I'd very much like to participate in your
mentor program...hope it's feasibile for me to do so and spend time with
your EToys training materials, asap. I realize you just had a major event
and if by chance you have podcasts, presentations on a site please send me
the urls.

http://kmw.caltek.net is a bio on me, fyi.

I created http://caltek.net in 1997 as a project of the http://commons.org
(the domain now in on a server in PA maybe close to where waveplace is
located)

October 2010 I finally created http://teknowledgy.org which is a box
colocated here in LA at http://calpop.com where I'm developing curriculum
and learning resources for various floss related projects in a business
context of entrepreneurship


thanks

cheers!
-

Cool

I saw on Swedish news yesterday that Rwanda was buying OLPC to every
school
child.

Karl


On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Timothy Falconer 
 Kawrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Waveplace will be traveling back to Haiti in ten days to start enough
> five
> laptop projects, bringing our total there to 19 schools.
>
> I'll be blogging daily starting today, focusing this time on the people
> and
> emotions involved, so please tune in:
>
> http://waveplace.org/news/blog/
>
> You can also follow my Twitter feed to get more regular updates:
>
> http://twitter.com/teefal
>
> Take care,
> Tim
>
> --
> Timothy Falconer
> Waveplace Foundation
> http://waveplace.org
> + 1 610 797 3100 x33
>
>
>
>
> ___
> squeakland mailing list
> squeakl...@squeakland.org
> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>
___
squeakland mailing list
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-- 
http://64.27.24.247:8000/xowiki/en:weblog?summary=1


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Re: [IAEP] DesignBlocks

[Bryant Patten]

On Jun 7, 2011, at 6:15 PM, Walter Bender wrote:


Anyone knows similar projects ?



Has anyone mentioned MiniBloq?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/791396812/minibloq-graphical-programming-environment-for-ard?ref=live

- Bryant

*
Bryant Patten
The National Center for Open Source and Education
www.ncose.org

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