[IAEP] Sugar tutorial video from Peru

[Bernie Innocenti]

A nice introduction to Sugar found in Peru's new image for the XO-1
which is based on OLPC OS 10.2:

 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Education_Team/Tutorials

I also uploaded the video to DailyMotion, but I couldn't figure out how
to make it work with the HTML5 player and add it to the sugar channel:

  http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmfk2x_presentacion-sugar

-- 
Bernie Innocenti
Sugar Labs Infrastructure Team
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Infrastructure_Team


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Re: [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[nanonano]

/>On 18/11/2011 02:43 p.m., Walter Bender wrote:
>The site seems to be down :( -walter
--/




It's very Strange, I can Access the RAP-Ceibal Forum  from South America and from 
Europe,.But some IPs from the U.S. says "You don't have permission to access / on this server."  The server is hosted in 
Italy.



Paolo Benini
montevideo
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Re: [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[Carlos Rabassa]

Traducción de mensaje publicado por John Tierney:

Hola a Todos,

Ofrezco esta simple declaración para enfocar nuestros pensamientos en lo que 
fue la intención de mi mensaje original:

"Tener un Maestro en la Junta de Supervisión de Sugar Labs (SLOB),  sería un 
gran paso adelante para Sugar.  Esto solo puede conseguirse si la comunidad 
ejerce el poder de su voto".

Mejores [deseos]!

John Tierney

On Nov 18, 2011, at 4:56 PM, John Tierney wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> To focus our thoughts on the intent of my original post I offer this simple 
> statement:
> 
> "Having a Teacher on the Sugar Labs Oversight Board would be a Great Step
> Forward for Sugar, this is only achievable by the community exercising the
> power of their vote"
> 
> Best!
> John Tierney
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Re: [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[John Tierney]

Hello All,

To focus our thoughts on the intent of my original post I offer this simple 
statement:

"Having a Teacher on the Sugar Labs Oversight Board would be a Great Step
Forward for Sugar, this is only achievable by the community exercising the
power of their vote"

Best!
John Tierney



Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:22:16 -0300
From: gonz...@laptop.org
To: car...@mac.com
CC: olpc-...@lists.laptop.org; argent...@lists.laptop.org; 
somosazu...@lists.sugarlabs.org; olpc-boli...@lists.laptop.org; 
iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; olpcp...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Argentina]  Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote


I believe Sugar is doing serious damage to Plan Ceibal,  to the uruguayan 
teachers, children, and to us all.


This is the point. You are not trying to contribute to the project, because you 
think is a waste of time.
Of course, I think different. 


 
As Mr. Bender expressed in one of his presentations Sugar is software under 
construction.

Many people don't understood what Walter said here.

It's not about a half finished project, is about a project with open doors, 
extensible, and free.


 
You cannot ask teachers and children to start using their new computers by 
figuring out how to deal with this software under construction which,  being so 
closely related to the operating system,  happens to affect all uses of their 
laptops.

My suggestion was and still is that after some years of trying the free 
software / volunteers route,  with unacceptable results,  get paid professional 
developers to swiftly work on correcting a good percentage of the problems,  
delivering working computers to the users.  Some of those developers might well 
be some of the same working today as volunteers.
 
Unacceptable results? Ok, go to use Windows Vista :)


Gonzalo


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Re: [IAEP] [Argentina] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[Gonzalo Odiard]

> I believe Sugar is doing serious damage to Plan Ceibal,  to the uruguayan
> teachers, children, and to us all.
>
>
This is the point. You are not trying to contribute to the project, because
you think is a waste of time.
Of course, I think different.



> As Mr. Bender expressed in one of his presentations Sugar is software
> under construction.
>
>
Many people don't understood what Walter said here.
It's not about a half finished project, is about a project with open doors,
extensible, and free.




> You cannot ask teachers and children to start using their new computers by
> figuring out how to deal with this software under construction which,
>  being so closely related to the operating system,  happens to affect all
> uses of their laptops.
>
> My suggestion was and still is that after some years of trying the free
> software / volunteers route,  with unacceptable results,  get paid
> professional developers to swiftly work on correcting a good percentage of
> the problems,  delivering working computers to the users.  Some of those
> developers might well be some of the same working today as volunteers.
>
>

Unacceptable results? Ok, go to use Windows Vista :)


Gonzalo
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Re: [IAEP] [Sur] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[Walter Bender]

2011/11/18 Carlos Rabassa :
> Traducción al Español sigue al original en Inglés
> Gonzalo,
> The teacher I met was not just any teacher.  He/she was a most influential
> education professional who could,  if introduced to the meeting,  have added
> important feedback.
> I didn´t say teachers are not welcome.  I said my personal feeling is they
> are not welcome.
> I will go back to this subject in a message I promised Mr. Bender,  with a
> list of the many suggestions I made in the past to improve this situation.

I await your suggestions. FWIW, it is not clear to me how the one
suggestion yo do make (below), more paid developers, will have any
impact on your principle complaint: that Sugar developers don't listen
to the teachers. But I am certain that the community would welcome
more developers, paid or otherwise. Or are you suddenly arguing some
different point. I would appreciate that we stay on topic in this
thread (start another one with your other concerns) and come up with
some concrete suggestions as to how we address the communication
problem you are so passionate about.

>
> Gonzalo,  I admire your energy and willingness to work.  I´m afraid I
> disagree however with your definition of work.
> It seems to me the only thing I could do for you to feel I am working,
>  would be to have unquestionable faith in Sugar and blindly obey its leader.
> Most people would probably agree if I say taking breaks in our work to look
> back and forward, to adjust our course,  is a good practice within any
> activity.
> I have done that and I have told you what my conclusion was.
> I believe Sugar is doing serious damage to Plan Ceibal,  to the uruguayan
> teachers, children, and to us all.
> As Mr. Bender expressed in one of his presentations Sugar is software under
> construction.

Indeed, what software project is not under construction? It is
impossible to remain still when the world is constantly changing
around you.

> You cannot ask teachers and children to start using their new computers by
> figuring out how to deal with this software under construction which,  being
> so closely related to the operating system,  happens to affect all uses of
> their laptops.

I would be curious as to what system you would have deployed on the XO
in 2007. Windows was unusable on the Geode hardware. But that is water
over the dam. We need to live with present and the future.

> My suggestion was and still is that after some years of trying the free
> software / volunteers route,  with unacceptable results,  get paid
> professional developers to swiftly work on correcting a good percentage of
> the problems,  delivering working computers to the users.  Some of those
> developers might well be some of the same working today as volunteers.
>
> Carlos
>
> On Nov 18, 2011, at 9:47 AM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote:
>
> Carlos,
> Because you meet one teacher who was ignored in one event,
> you say the teachers are not welcomed in the SugarLabs community?
> This is a complete nonsense.
> You have your point of view, and is ok,
> but try to found a constructive way to participate,
> only rant, is annoying. There are a lot of work to do.
>
> Gonzalo
>
> Traducción al Español
> Gonzalo,
> El maestro que encontré no era un maestro cualquiera.  Era un muy influyente
> profesional de la educación que podría, si hubiese sido presentado/a a la
> reunión,  haber agregado importante información desde el lado de los
> usuarios.
> No dije que los maestros no son bienvenidos.  Dije que mi opinión personal
> es que no son bienvenidos.
> Volveré sobre este tema en un mensaje que prometí al Sr. Bender,  con la
> lista de las muchas sugerencias que hice en el pasado para mejorar esta
> situación.
> Gonzalo,  admiro tu energía y voluntad para trabajar.  Me temo no estoy de
> acuerdo con tu definición de trabajo.
> Me parece que lo único que podría hacer para darte la sensación de que estoy
> trabajando,  sería tener fe absoluta en Sugar y obedecer ciegamente a su
> líder.
> La mayoría probablemente estaría de acuerdo si digo que hacer pausas en
> nuestro trabajo para mirar hacia atrás y hacia adelante y ajustar así
> nuestro curso,  es una buena práctica dentro de cualquier actividad.
> Yo lo he hecho y te he contado mis conclusiones.
> Creo que Sugar le está causando serios daños al Plan Ceibal,  a los maestros
> y niños uruguayos y a todos nosotros.
> Tal como lo expresó el Sr. Bender en una de sus presentaciones,  Sugar es
> software en construcción.
> No puedes pedirle a los maestros y a los niños que comiencen a usar sus
> nuevas computadoras,  descubriendo como arreglarse con este software en
> construcción,  el cual,  estando íntimamente relacionado con el sistema
> operativo, afecta todos los usos de sus laptops.
> Mi sugerencia fue y todavía es que,  después de algunos años de probar la
> ruta del software libre y voluntarios,  sin resultados aceptables,
>  conseguir desarrolladores profesionales pagos para que rápidamente corrijan
> un buen porcen

Re: [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[Marco Pesenti Gritti]

2011/11/18 Carlos Rabassa :
> My suggestion was and still is that after some years of trying the free
> software / volunteers route,  with unacceptable results,  get paid
> professional developers to swiftly work on correcting a good percentage of
> the problems,  delivering working computers to the users.  Some of those
> developers might well be some of the same working today as volunteers.

Several developers working on Sugar are paid professional. They are
unquestionably too few, but it's unclear to who your suggestion is
addressed. If *anyone* brought more paid developers I'm sure the
SugarLabs community would be totally happy and grateful...

Marco
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Re: [IAEP] [somos-azucar] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn]

ENGLISH:
"...correcting a good percentage of the problems,  delivering working computers 
to the users."
You try the latest version of Sugar (0.94.2) ?
The Plan Ceibal uses Dextrosa, but the base is Sugar 0.88.1
What problems do you have? Explain it...
ESPAÑOL:
"corrijan un buen porcentaje de los problemas,  entregando computadoras que 
funcionen,  a los usuarios."
Has probado la última versión de Sugar (0.94.2) ?
El Plan Ceibal usa Dextrosa, pero la base es Sugar 0.88.1
Que problemas tienes? Explícalos...

From: car...@mac.com
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:36:44 -0200
To: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; argent...@lists.laptop.org; 
olpc-boli...@lists.laptop.org; olpcp...@gmail.com; olpc-...@lists.laptop.org; 
somosazu...@lists.sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [somos-azucar] [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote



Traducción al Español sigue al original en Inglés
Gonzalo,
The teacher I met was not just any teacher.  He/she was a most influential 
education professional who could,  if introduced to the meeting,  have added 
important feedback. 
I didn´t say teachers are not welcome.  I said my personal feeling is they are 
not welcome.  
I will go back to this subject in a message I promised Mr. Bender,  with a list 
of the many suggestions I made in the past to improve this situation. 

Gonzalo,  I admire your energy and willingness to work.  I´m afraid I disagree 
however with your definition of work.
It seems to me the only thing I could do for you to feel I am working,  would 
be to have unquestionable faith in Sugar and blindly obey its leader.
Most people would probably agree if I say taking breaks in our work to look 
back and forward, to adjust our course,  is a good practice within any activity.
I have done that and I have told you what my conclusion was.
I believe Sugar is doing serious damage to Plan Ceibal,  to the uruguayan 
teachers, children, and to us all.
As Mr. Bender expressed in one of his presentations Sugar is software under 
construction.
You cannot ask teachers and children to start using their new computers by 
figuring out how to deal with this software under construction which,  being so 
closely related to the operating system,  happens to affect all uses of their 
laptops.
My suggestion was and still is that after some years of trying the free 
software / volunteers route,  with unacceptable results,  get paid professional 
developers to swiftly work on correcting a good percentage of the problems,  
delivering working computers to the users.  Some of those developers might well 
be some of the same working today as volunteers. Carlos


On Nov 18, 2011, at 9:47 AM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote:Carlos,
Because you meet one teacher who was ignored in one event, 
you say the teachers are not welcomed in the SugarLabs community?
This is a complete nonsense.
You have your point of view, and is ok,
but try to found a constructive way to participate,

only rant, is annoying. There are a lot of work to do.

Gonzalo
Traducción al Español
Gonzalo,
El maestro que encontré no era un maestro cualquiera.  Era un muy influyente 
profesional de la educación que podría, si hubiese sido presentado/a a la 
reunión,  haber agregado importante información desde el lado de los usuarios.
No dije que los maestros no son bienvenidos.  Dije que mi opinión personal es 
que no son bienvenidos.
Volveré sobre este tema en un mensaje que prometí al Sr. Bender,  con la lista 
de las muchas sugerencias que hice en el pasado para mejorar esta situación.
Gonzalo,  admiro tu energía y voluntad para trabajar.  Me temo no estoy de 
acuerdo con tu definición de trabajo.
Me parece que lo único que podría hacer para darte la sensación de que estoy 
trabajando,  sería tener fe absoluta en Sugar y obedecer ciegamente a su líder.
La mayoría probablemente estaría de acuerdo si digo que hacer pausas en nuestro 
trabajo para mirar hacia atrás y hacia adelante y ajustar así nuestro curso,  
es una buena práctica dentro de cualquier actividad.
Yo lo he hecho y te he contado mis conclusiones.
Creo que Sugar le está causando serios daños al Plan Ceibal,  a los maestros y 
niños uruguayos y a todos nosotros.
Tal como lo expresó el Sr. Bender en una de sus presentaciones,  Sugar es 
software en construcción.
No puedes pedirle a los maestros y a los niños que comiencen a usar sus nuevas 
computadoras,  descubriendo como arreglarse con este software en construcción,  
el cual,  estando íntimamente relacionado con el sistema operativo, afecta 
todos los usos de sus laptops.
Mi sugerencia fue y todavía es que,  después de algunos años de probar la ruta 
del software libre y voluntarios,  sin resultados aceptables,  conseguir 
desarrolladores profesionales pagos para que rápidamente corrijan un buen 
porcentaje de los problemas,  entregando computadoras que funcionen,  a los 
usuarios.  Algunos de estos desarrolladores podrían muy bien ser algunos de los 
mismos que trabajan hoy como voluntarios.
Carlos


En Nov 18, 2011, a las 9:47 AM, Gonzalo Odiard escrib

Re: [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[Carlos Rabassa]

Traducción al Español sigue al original en Inglés

Gonzalo,

The teacher I met was not just any teacher.  He/she was a most influential 
education professional who could,  if introduced to the meeting,  have added 
important feedback. 

I didn´t say teachers are not welcome.  I said my personal feeling is they are 
not welcome.  

I will go back to this subject in a message I promised Mr. Bender,  with a list 
of the many suggestions I made in the past to improve this situation. 


Gonzalo,  I admire your energy and willingness to work.  I´m afraid I disagree 
however with your definition of work.

It seems to me the only thing I could do for you to feel I am working,  would 
be to have unquestionable faith in Sugar and blindly obey its leader.

Most people would probably agree if I say taking breaks in our work to look 
back and forward, to adjust our course,  is a good practice within any activity.

I have done that and I have told you what my conclusion was.

I believe Sugar is doing serious damage to Plan Ceibal,  to the uruguayan 
teachers, children, and to us all.

As Mr. Bender expressed in one of his presentations Sugar is software under 
construction.

You cannot ask teachers and children to start using their new computers by 
figuring out how to deal with this software under construction which,  being so 
closely related to the operating system,  happens to affect all uses of their 
laptops.

My suggestion was and still is that after some years of trying the free 
software / volunteers route,  with unacceptable results,  get paid professional 
developers to swiftly work on correcting a good percentage of the problems,  
delivering working computers to the users.  Some of those developers might well 
be some of the same working today as volunteers.
 
Carlos


On Nov 18, 2011, at 9:47 AM, Gonzalo Odiard wrote:

> Carlos,
> Because you meet one teacher who was ignored in one event, 
> you say the teachers are not welcomed in the SugarLabs community?
> This is a complete nonsense.
> You have your point of view, and is ok,
> but try to found a constructive way to participate,
> only rant, is annoying. There are a lot of work to do.
> 
> Gonzalo

Traducción al Español

Gonzalo,

El maestro que encontré no era un maestro cualquiera.  Era un muy influyente 
profesional de la educación que podría, si hubiese sido presentado/a a la 
reunión,  haber agregado importante información desde el lado de los usuarios.

No dije que los maestros no son bienvenidos.  Dije que mi opinión personal es 
que no son bienvenidos.

Volveré sobre este tema en un mensaje que prometí al Sr. Bender,  con la lista 
de las muchas sugerencias que hice en el pasado para mejorar esta situación.

Gonzalo,  admiro tu energía y voluntad para trabajar.  Me temo no estoy de 
acuerdo con tu definición de trabajo.

Me parece que lo único que podría hacer para darte la sensación de que estoy 
trabajando,  sería tener fe absoluta en Sugar y obedecer ciegamente a su líder.

La mayoría probablemente estaría de acuerdo si digo que hacer pausas en nuestro 
trabajo para mirar hacia atrás y hacia adelante y ajustar así nuestro curso,  
es una buena práctica dentro de cualquier actividad.

Yo lo he hecho y te he contado mis conclusiones.

Creo que Sugar le está causando serios daños al Plan Ceibal,  a los maestros y 
niños uruguayos y a todos nosotros.

Tal como lo expresó el Sr. Bender en una de sus presentaciones,  Sugar es 
software en construcción.

No puedes pedirle a los maestros y a los niños que comiencen a usar sus nuevas 
computadoras,  descubriendo como arreglarse con este software en construcción,  
el cual,  estando íntimamente relacionado con el sistema operativo, afecta 
todos los usos de sus laptops.

Mi sugerencia fue y todavía es que,  después de algunos años de probar la ruta 
del software libre y voluntarios,  sin resultados aceptables,  conseguir 
desarrolladores profesionales pagos para que rápidamente corrijan un buen 
porcentaje de los problemas,  entregando computadoras que funcionen,  a los 
usuarios.  Algunos de estos desarrolladores podrían muy bien ser algunos de los 
mismos que trabajan hoy como voluntarios.

Carlos



En Nov 18, 2011, a las 9:47 AM, Gonzalo Odiard escribió:

Carlos,

Porque encontraste a un maestro que fue ignorado en un evento,  dices que los 
maestros no son bienvenidos en la comunidad SugarLabs?

Esto no tiene ningún sentido.

Tú tienes tu punto de vista y,  esto está bien,  pero trata de encontrar una 
manera constructiva de participar,  solamente despotricar,  es molesto.  Hay 
montones de trabajo para hacer.

Gonzalo

Carlos Rabassa
Voluntario
Red de Apoyo al Plan Ceibal
Montevideo, Uruguay
www.tiny.cc/AprendoILearn


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Re: [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[Walter Bender]

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 10:35 AM,   wrote:
>>On 18/11/2011 12:39 p.m., Walter Bender wrote:
>>Feedback from children is also important :) Can Sugar developers also join
>> this forum?
> ---
>
>
>
> Sure!
>
> Sugar developers or anyone else that want to talk about de Xo are welcome.
> The Forum is mostly in Spanish.
>
> For example: In that Forum you can find the children that discovered how to
> "hack" the Plan Ceibal's XO.

The site seems to be down :(

-walter

>
>
> Paolo Benini
> Montevideo
>
> ___
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> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[nanonano]

/>On 18/11/2011 12:39 p.m., Walter Bender wrote:
>Feedback from children is also important :) Can Sugar developers also join 
this forum?/
---



Sure!

Sugar developers or anyone else that want to talk about de Xo are welcome. The Forum 
 is mostly in Spanish.


For example: In that Forum you can find the children that discovered how to "hack" 
 the Plan Ceibal's XO.



Paolo Benini
Montevideo
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Re: [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[Walter Bender]

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 9:25 AM,   wrote:
>>On 18/11/2011 11:10 a.m., Walter Bender wrote:
>>Is there a social-networking site in your country where the teachers
>> gather?
> ---
>
>
>
> In Uruguay we have created a Forum so that teachers and volunteers could
> communicate, but very few teachers enter to that forum asking something and
> then they left. Currently most of the people on that forum are children.

That is something at least. Feedback from children is also important
:) Can Sugar developers also join this forum?

>
> We opened also a social network on http://rapceibal.info/ and we made a
> group for the teachers, but with the same result, some teachers came to ask
> something and they didn't return.

My hypothesis is that we need to go to the teachers rather than make a
new place for them to come to. But I don't know where they are
currently hanging out. I built a survey to ask that question but could
not get it circulated among the teachers. Perhaps someone closer to
the ground in .UY (and other countries) could do this?

Of course, it may be the case that the teachers are not active in any
social network. In that case, it would seem to make sense to invite
them to a room in an existing network rather create a new network
(although I concede that I am lazy).

regards.

-walter

>
>
> Paolo Benini
> Montevideo
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
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> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[nanonano]

/>On 18/11/2011 11:10 a.m., Walter Bender wrote:
>Is there a social-networking site in your country where the teachers gather?/
---



In Uruguay we have created a Forum  so that teachers and volunteers could 
communicate, but very few teachers enter to that forum asking something and then they left. Currently most of the people 
on that forum are children.


We opened also a social network on http://rapceibal.info/ and we made a group for the teachers 
, but with the same result, some teachers came to ask something 
and they didn't return.



Paolo Benini
Montevideo
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Re: [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[Walter Bender]

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 7:20 AM,   wrote:
>>On 18/11/2011 09:47 a.m., Gonzalo Odiard wrote:
>> ... only rant, is annoying. There are a lot of work to do
> -
>
>
>
> If I understood well you are saying: "don't annoy us, we are working, we
> don't have time to think".

I don't think that is what Gonzalo was saying at all. I think his was
a call for action. We've heard many times from Carlos that teachers
feel alienated from the Sugar developer community. (At times it is
suggested that this is deliberate on behalf of the developers, but I
hope you will concede the fact that we have made efforts towards
dialog.) What is missing are concrete proposals that are actionable.

Here are a few suggestions:

(1) In Australia, the teachers use a social-networking site called
Yammer. Developers know to go to Yammer to communicate directly with
the teachers. Is there a social-networking site in your country where
the teachers gather? If so, we could hang out with them there. (I've
asked this question many times in the past and never gotten an answer.
Perhaps you or Carlos could investigate?)

(2) Get the word out that we have weekly meetings of the Learning
Team. The meeting is conducted in Spanish and it includes teachers
from all of the major Sugar deployments and many of the smaller ones.
Developers attend these meetings as well. They are logged and
documented [1] and have been the source of bidirectional feedback.
Over the past month, for example, we have been discussing the Journal
and have prepared a collection of feature proposals [2] for the next
Sugar release.

[1] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Chat_Espanol_2011
[2] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Journal_features_for_0.96

> Sugarlabs members are not workers on the assembly line of the Ford Company.
>
> I thought that the best thing was first of all think, then work.

Some problems are too difficult to think through to their entirety.
Sometimes one has to engage in a process of iteration. In any case,
feedback is necessary.

regards.

-walter
>
>
> Paolo Benini
> Montevideo
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[Gonzalo Odiard]

No, you are not understanding.
I am saying, is ok to talk, but _just_talking_ does not change anything.
You can help, but you choice only talk.

Gonzalo

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 9:20 AM,  wrote:

>  *>On 18/11/2011 09:47 a.m., Gonzalo Odiard wrote:
> > ... only rant, is annoying. There are a lot of work to do*
>
> -
>
>
>
> If I understood well you are saying: "don't annoy us, we are working, we
> don't have time to think".
> Sugarlabs members are not workers on the assembly line of the Ford Company.
>
> I thought that the best thing was first of all think, then work.
>
>
> Paolo Benini
> Montevideo
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[nanonano]

/>On 18/11/2011 09:47 a.m., Gonzalo Odiard wrote:
> ... only rant, is annoying. There are a lot of work to do/
-



If I understood well you are saying: "don't annoy us, we are working, we don't have 
time to think".
Sugarlabs members are not workers on the assembly line of the Ford Company.

I thought that the best thing was first of all think, then work.


Paolo Benini
Montevideo
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[Gonzalo Odiard]

Carlos,
Because you meet one teacher who was ignored in one event,
you say the teachers are not welcomed in the SugarLabs community?
This is a complete nonsense.
You have your point of view, and is ok,
but try to found a constructive way to participate,
only rant, is annoying. There are a lot of work to do.

Gonzalo

2011/11/18 Carlos Rabassa 

> *Traducción al Español sigue al original en Inglés*
>
> Dear Mr. Bender:
>
> Thanks for your message.
>
> I read with interest your numerous calls for more educators to run for
> SLOB positions.
>
> I did not ignore them.
>
> I just couldn´t suggest any educators to run when,  while you ask them to
> join,  you and many of those who work with you make it very clear in deeds
> that educators are not welcome in your group.
>
> Needless to say this is my personal feeling,  please accept my apologies
> and correct me if my interpretation is not correct.
>
> You are the leader of SugarLabs,  you are the one who sets the example and
> the policies.
>
> Standards for leaders are higher than standards for the rest of us.
>
> This is particularly important when we are dealing with the education of
> children and young adults. All adults and particularly leaders,  are looked
> at,  as role models.
>
> This becomes even more important when we consider these children and young
> adults have access to our dialogues in the mail lists.
>
> I have been reading messages in our lists for some years,  i have attended
> many meetings in schools, universities and volunteer groups.  I have had
> two-way conversations with many individuals attending those meetings.  I
> even paid one hundred dollars to have the opportunity of meeting you and
> listening to you when you visited us during CeibalJam in Montevideo.  I
> spoke to an educator,  highly respected in the regional educators´
> community who,  seemed to be completely ignored by the meeting´s
> leadership.  As always,  there are exceptions:  I met some excellent and
> helpful representatives of the Sugar developers community.
>
> This is how I gathered the clear feeling that educators are not welcome at
> Sugar Labs.
>
> Educators who do not understand Sugar developers´ English shop talk seem
> to be particularly not welcome.
>
> Unfortunately educators who might consider running for the SLOB positions
> have the same sources of information as I do and,  chances are they get the
> same feeling.
>
> In a separate message I will try to gather the many suggestions I made in
> the past to change this image.
>
>
> *Traducción al Español*
>
> Apreciado Sr. Bender:
>
> Gracias por su mensaje.
>
> Leí con interés sus numerosos llamados a más educadores para que se
> postulen como candidatos a llenar los puestos en SLOB (Junta de Supervisión
> de Sugar Labs).
>
> No los ignoré [sus llamados].
>
> No pude sugerir a ningún educador que se postulara cuando,  mientras que
> Ud. les pide que lo hagan,  Ud. y la muchos de los que trabajan con Ud.
> expresan claramente con los hechos que los educadores no son bienvenidos a
> su grupo.
>
> No es necesario aclarar que esta es mi impresión personal.  Por favor
> acepte mis disculpas y corríjame si mi interpretación no es correcta.
>
> Ud. es el líder de SugarLabs,  Ud. es quien establece el ejemplo y las
> políticas.
>
> Las normas para los líderes son más exigentes que para el resto de
> nosotros.
>
> Esto es especialmente importante cuando tratamos con la educación de niños
> y jóvenes.  Todos los adultos y en particular los líderes,  son mirados
> como modelo a seguir.
>
> Esto se vuelve aún más importante cuando consideramos que esos niños y
> jóvenes tienen acceso a nuestros diálogos en las listas de correo.
>
> He estado leyendo mensajes en nuestras listas durante algunos años.  He
> asistido a muchas reuniones en escuelas, universidades y grupos de
> voluntarios. He tenido conversaciones,  hablando y escuchando,  con muchas
> de las personas en esas reuniones.  Hasta pagué cien dólares para tener la
> oportunidad de conocerlo a Ud. en persona y escucharlo cuando nos visitó en
> Montevideo durante el CeibalJAM.  Conversé con un educador/a,  muy
> respetado/a en la comunidad de educadores uruguayos,  que en esa reunión
> parecía estar completamente ignorado/a por los líderes del evento.  Como
> siempre,  hay excepciones:  Conocí algunos excelentes representantes de la
> comunidad de desarrolladores de Sugar cuya ayuda resulta muy útil.
>
> Así fue como llegué a tener la clara sensación de que los educadores no
> son bienvenidos a Sugar Labs.
>
> Los educadores que no entienden la terminología inglesa informal usada a
> diario por los desarrolladores de Sugar parecen ser aún menos bienvenidos.
>
> Desafortunadamente,  los educadores que están considerando postularse para
> los puestos en SLOB,  disponen de las mismas fuentes de información que yo
> y,  por lo tanto,  es muy probable que tengan la misma impresión que yo.
>
> En otro mensaje trataré de juntar las muchas sugerencias que hice en el
>

Re: [IAEP] Contemplating Your SLOBS Vote

[Carlos Rabassa]

Traducción al Español sigue al original en Inglés

Dear Mr. Bender:

Thanks for your message.

I read with interest your numerous calls for more educators to run for SLOB 
positions.

I did not ignore them.

I just couldn´t suggest any educators to run when,  while you ask them to join, 
 you and many of those who work with you make it very clear in deeds that 
educators are not welcome in your group.

Needless to say this is my personal feeling,  please accept my apologies and 
correct me if my interpretation is not correct.

You are the leader of SugarLabs,  you are the one who sets the example and the 
policies.

Standards for leaders are higher than standards for the rest of us.  

This is particularly important when we are dealing with the education of 
children and young adults. All adults and particularly leaders,  are looked at, 
 as role models.

This becomes even more important when we consider these children and young 
adults have access to our dialogues in the mail lists.

I have been reading messages in our lists for some years,  i have attended many 
meetings in schools, universities and volunteer groups.  I have had two-way 
conversations with many individuals attending those meetings.  I even paid one 
hundred dollars to have the opportunity of meeting you and listening to you 
when you visited us during CeibalJam in Montevideo.  I spoke to an educator,  
highly respected in the regional educators´ community who,  seemed to be 
completely ignored by the meeting´s leadership.  As always,  there are 
exceptions:  I met some excellent and helpful representatives of the Sugar 
developers community.  

This is how I gathered the clear feeling that educators are not welcome at 
Sugar Labs.  

Educators who do not understand Sugar developers´ English shop talk seem to be 
particularly not welcome.

Unfortunately educators who might consider running for the SLOB positions have 
the same sources of information as I do and,  chances are they get the same 
feeling.

In a separate message I will try to gather the many suggestions I made in the 
past to change this image.


Traducción al Español

Apreciado Sr. Bender:

Gracias por su mensaje.

Leí con interés sus numerosos llamados a más educadores para que se postulen 
como candidatos a llenar los puestos en SLOB (Junta de Supervisión de Sugar 
Labs).

No los ignoré [sus llamados].

No pude sugerir a ningún educador que se postulara cuando,  mientras que Ud. 
les pide que lo hagan,  Ud. y la muchos de los que trabajan con Ud. expresan 
claramente con los hechos que los educadores no son bienvenidos a su grupo.

No es necesario aclarar que esta es mi impresión personal.  Por favor acepte 
mis disculpas y corríjame si mi interpretación no es correcta.

Ud. es el líder de SugarLabs,  Ud. es quien establece el ejemplo y las 
políticas.

Las normas para los líderes son más exigentes que para el resto de nosotros. 

Esto es especialmente importante cuando tratamos con la educación de niños y 
jóvenes.  Todos los adultos y en particular los líderes,  son mirados como 
modelo a seguir.

Esto se vuelve aún más importante cuando consideramos que esos niños y jóvenes 
tienen acceso a nuestros diálogos en las listas de correo.

He estado leyendo mensajes en nuestras listas durante algunos años.  He 
asistido a muchas reuniones en escuelas, universidades y grupos de voluntarios. 
He tenido conversaciones,  hablando y escuchando,  con muchas de las personas 
en esas reuniones.  Hasta pagué cien dólares para tener la oportunidad de 
conocerlo a Ud. en persona y escucharlo cuando nos visitó en Montevideo durante 
el CeibalJAM.  Conversé con un educador/a,  muy respetado/a en la comunidad de 
educadores uruguayos,  que en esa reunión parecía estar completamente 
ignorado/a por los líderes del evento.  Como siempre,  hay excepciones:  Conocí 
algunos excelentes representantes de la comunidad de desarrolladores de Sugar 
cuya ayuda resulta muy útil.

Así fue como llegué a tener la clara sensación de que los educadores no son 
bienvenidos a Sugar Labs.

Los educadores que no entienden la terminología inglesa informal usada a diario 
por los desarrolladores de Sugar parecen ser aún menos bienvenidos.

Desafortunadamente,  los educadores que están considerando postularse para los 
puestos en SLOB,  disponen de las mismas fuentes de información que yo y,  por 
lo tanto,  es muy probable que tengan la misma impresión que yo.

En otro mensaje trataré de juntar las muchas sugerencias que hice en el pasado 
para cambiar esta imagen.

Carlos Rabassa
Volunteer
Plan Ceibal Support Network
Montevideo, Uruguay
www.tiny.cc/AprendoILearn



On Nov 17, 2011, at 11:15 AM, Walter Bender wrote:

> Funny how you ignored my numerous calls for more educators to run for
> SLOBs positions. Would have been nice if you had reposted some of
> those messages over the past two months and perhaps we'd have more
> educators from Sur applying.
> 
> sigh.
> 
> -walter
___