Re: [IAEP] Fwd: clarify please

[Chris Leonard]

Laura,

Do you routinely pass private messages to your husband via
distribution list?  Most odd.

I had sent this message privately because I did not wish to embarrass
Sebastian by pointing out on a public list that he made an error when
restoring the Central Pame language to the Pootle server.  At the time
you were making a big deal about me claiming credit for Sebastian's
work when it was merely a mistake in which of three languages I had
restored on March 1st and which of two or three (one incorrectly)
Sebastian had restored on Feb 29th.

http://translate.sugarlabs.org/notices/rss.xml

You are quite right, Sebastian was responsible for attempting the
restore of Central Pame (pbs), it was done incorrectly and is causing
errors, I wish he would fix the errors he caused on the Pootle server.
If he can't, he should let me know so I can look into cleaning up his
mess when I have the time.

On the other hand, I've done other language restores (Bislama, Samoan,
Kosraean, Kinyarwanda) and multiple Activity restores and I do not
think they are causing problems, but if they do, I would like someone
to point them out to me, perhaps even showing me the courtesy of doing
it privately, so I could fix them.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask, but there is
probably no need to have every conversation on IAEP,  We've generally
kept the volume low on L10n which has made for a high signal-to-noise
ratio, it would be a shame for that list to get bogged down in trivia.

cjl


On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Laura Vargas  wrote:
> Sebastian,
>
> I guess this request if you.
>
> Have no idea why it wasn't sent directly.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Laura V
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Chris Leonard 
> Date: 2016-03-29 1:04 GMT+08:00
> Subject: Re: clarify please
> To: Laura Vargas 
>
>
> BTW, could you ask him to fix the issue with Central Pame?
>
> http://translate.sugarlabs.org/pbs/notices
>
> Gives error:
>
> Server Error
>
> An error has occurred. Thank you for your patience.
>
> get() returned more than one Directory -- it returned 2! Lookup
> parameters were {'pootle_path': u'/pbs/'}
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:54 PM, Chris Leonard
>  wrote:
>> Clarification and apology posted to list.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Laura Vargas 
>> wrote:
>>> Hi Chris,
>>>
>>> I hope you are dong well.
>>>
>>> I don't understand the reason why you are giving yourself a credit for
>>> the
>>> work that has been done by Sebastian.
>>>
>>> It was Sebastian who restored Tenek, Pame and Nahuatl languages to the
>>> Pootle Server and this should be clarified to the committee.
>>>
>>> An apology to him is also in place.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> --
>>> Laura V.
>>> I SomosAZUCAR.Org
>>>
>>> Identi.ca/Skype acaire
>>> IRC kaametza
>>>
>>> Happy Learning!
>>>
>
>
>
> --
> Laura V.
> I SomosAZUCAR.Org
>
> Identi.ca/Skype acaire
> IRC kaametza
>
> Happy Learning!
>
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
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[IAEP] Fwd: clarify please

[Laura Vargas]

Sebastian,

I guess this request if you.

Have no idea why it wasn't sent directly.

Best regards,

Laura V

-- Forwarded message --
From: Chris Leonard 
Date: 2016-03-29 1:04 GMT+08:00
Subject: Re: clarify please
To: Laura Vargas 


BTW, could you ask him to fix the issue with Central Pame?

http://translate.sugarlabs.org/pbs/notices

Gives error:

Server Error

An error has occurred. Thank you for your patience.

get() returned more than one Directory -- it returned 2! Lookup
parameters were {'pootle_path': u'/pbs/'}




On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:54 PM, Chris Leonard
 wrote:
> Clarification and apology posted to list.
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Laura Vargas 
wrote:
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> I hope you are dong well.
>>
>> I don't understand the reason why you are giving yourself a credit for
the
>> work that has been done by Sebastian.
>>
>> It was Sebastian who restored Tenek, Pame and Nahuatl languages to the
>> Pootle Server and this should be clarified to the committee.
>>
>> An apology to him is also in place.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> --
>> Laura V.
>> I SomosAZUCAR.Org
>>
>> Identi.ca/Skype acaire
>> IRC kaametza
>>
>> Happy Learning!
>>



-- 
Laura V.
I SomosAZUCAR.Org

Identi.ca/Skype acaire
IRC kaametza

Happy Learning!
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [SLOB] meeting reminder

[Chris Leonard]

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 6:03 AM, Sebastian Silva
 wrote:
> Hi Chris,
> I will try to be succinct in answering the questions you raise.

I'm afraid I might have to go on in length to debunk your errors.

> By Walter's apparent vote of no confidence in me and your insistence of
> having done no wrong I realize I will have to work with you if I want to
> get things done.

You certainly don't make easy by continuing to attack people.  One
alternative (as I will lay out below), is to actually do things
yourself rather than complain about others not doing them for you.

> I like to work openly. My problem with your nomination is that you
> already have insisted to set yourself up as a bottleneck, and blocked
> for six months the efforts of Awajún language locale (look for my emails
> to you from Nov and Dec 2014 here):
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2014-November/017104.html
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2014-December/017115.html

Let's talk about me "setting myself as a bottleneck", how exactly is
that possible when the GNU Library of C functions (glibc) and it's
locale effort are open source projects to which anyone can contribute.
Write an agr_PE locale file and submit it according to their community
process.  I will tell you it is not necessarily an easy community to
join actively or to get action from, which is why I have spent a great
deal of my own time gaining their trust through contribution, so that
I might be able to work effectively on behalf of the new language
efforts we encounter with some frequency at Sugar Labs.

Ok, you cite a message from Nov 2014 and one from Dec 2014 to a high
volume list, one that, by the way, is not the "home" of the
localization effort.  You do not replicate my private reply to you in
Feb 2015

"Sorry it has taken so long.  New job.

Let me work on this and I'll get back to you.  I will definitely work
with you to get this submitted in good form to glibc."

Or my delivery of a draft agr_PE glibc locale in another message later
on, followed by your testing and improvement, etc. etc.

I am quite sorry that I was not available at your beck and call when
you wanted me to do something for you, but in no way could I be
interpreted as a bottleneck to you doing it for yourself, and in time,
I actually provided you with the benefit of my expertise (without
cost), purely for the good of the community.  So your major complaint
is that I was not fast enough to do a favor for you.  Somehow, you
think I owed it to you to do work that you assigned to me more
quickly.

Life outside of Sugar does happen. Sometimes it can take more than a
message to a high-volume maiiling list to get someone's attention.
Actually getting someone's cooperation can involve not treating them
poorly on a regular basis until you need something from them.

I will be happy to assist anyone with matters of L10n/i18n as they
relate to Sugar Labs, but I'm not going to pretend that I do not find
some people more challenging to work with than others.  Nonetheless,
the work is the important thing.

cjl
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Re: [IAEP] Sugar for Tablets

[Ryan Cunningham]

I didn't send this to you completely! Guess I'll have to cancel this.
¡No envié esto a Uds. completamente! Yo tengo que cancelar esto.

Enviado desde mi iPod

> El abr 2, 2016, a las 07:14, Ryan Cunningham  
> escribió:
> 
> 
> 
> Enviado desde mi iPod
> 
> Inicio del mensaje reenviado:
> 
>> De: "Cunningham, Ryan (CUNNIRYA001)" 
>> Fecha: 30 de marzo de 2016, 20:33:40 MST
>> Para: Ryan Cunningham 
>> Cc: Sebastian Silva , "iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org" 
>> 
>> Asunto: Re: [IAEP] Sugar for Tablets
 On Mar 30, 2016, at 14:46, Ryan Cunningham  
 wrote:
 
 El mar 30, 2016, a las 14:03, Sebastian Silva  
 escribió:
 
 
 
> On 30/03/16 15:55, Cunningham, Ryan (CUNNIRYA001) wrote:
> This project is for _new_ tablets designed to be shipped from the factory 
> with this OS. Perhaps you might be able to reach out to educational 
> hardware manufacturers, though _not to specific ones_.
 
 This is what I understood indeed. I wish I could point you to
 educational hardware manufacturers that could make this a reality. In
 all these years, none have manifested themselves in this list.
 
 :-(
>>> Perhaps a future one might come up!
>>> ¡Posiblemente un uno futuro puede lanzar!
> 
> Este proyecto es para tabletas _nuevas_ que son diseñados desde el 
> fabricante con este S/O. Posiblemente ustedes están capaz para comunicar 
> con fabricantes de hardware educacional, pero _no a unos específicos_.
>> 
>> Sorry, but I have a bug to fix.
>> Lo siento, pero tengo un problema para fijar.
>> 
>> The cursor was programmed to disappear in the Sugar user interface, but 
>> nonetheless, it still appeared in initial-setup! This new version fixes that.
>> El cursor estaba programado para desaparecer en el interfaz de usuario de 
>> Sugar, pero ¡ese se aparezco sin embargo en initial-setup! Esta versión 
>> nueva se fijarlo.
> 
>> 
 
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 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
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>> 
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[IAEP] Fwd: Sugar for Tablets

[Ryan Cunningham]

Enviado desde mi iPodInicio del mensaje reenviado:De: "Cunningham, Ryan (CUNNIRYA001)" Fecha: 30 de marzo de 2016, 20:33:40 MSTPara: Ryan Cunningham Cc: Sebastian Silva , "iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org" Asunto: Re: [IAEP] Sugar for TabletsOn Mar 30, 2016, at 14:46, Ryan Cunningham  wrote:El mar 30, 2016, a las 14:03, Sebastian Silva  escribió:On 30/03/16 15:55, Cunningham, Ryan (CUNNIRYA001) wrote:This project is for _new_ tablets designed to be shipped from the factory with this OS. Perhaps you might be able to reach out to educational hardware manufacturers, though _not to specific ones_.This is what I understood indeed. I wish I could point you toeducational hardware manufacturers that could make this a reality. Inall these years, none have manifested themselves in this list.:-(Perhaps a future one might come up!¡Posiblemente un uno futuro puede lanzar!Este proyecto es para tabletas _nuevas_ que son diseñados desde el fabricante con este S/O. Posiblemente ustedes están capaz para comunicar con fabricantes de hardware educacional, pero _no a unos específicos_.Sorry, but I have a bug to fix.Lo siento, pero tengo un problema para fijar.The cursor was programmed to disappear in the Sugar user interface, but nonetheless, it still appeared in initial-setup! This new version fixes that.El cursor estaba programado para desaparecer en el interfaz de usuario de Sugar, pero ¡ese se aparezco sin embargo en initial-setup! Esta versión nueva se fijarlo.

fedora-sugar-for-tablets.sha512sum
Description: Binary data
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [SLOB] meeting reminder

[Sebastian Silva]

Hi Chris,
I will try to be succinct in answering the questions you raise.

By Walter's apparent vote of no confidence in me and your insistence of
having done no wrong I realize I will have to work with you if I want to
get things done.

I like to work openly. My problem with your nomination is that you
already have insisted to set yourself up as a bottleneck, and blocked
for six months the efforts of Awajún language locale (look for my emails
to you from Nov and Dec 2014 here):
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2014-November/017104.html
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2014-December/017115.html

I suppose paying you would warrant we get from you a quality timely
service because it is perceived a paid manager is required to submit
reports on work done.
Perhaps. I don't read you'll quit your day job for this position.
Central control has not worked very well for Sugar Labs and this seems
to me like more of the same. The translation workflow itself (pootle
etc) replicates a centralized mental model.

Sincerely I appreciate every bit of energy you put into Sugar Labs and
would not want to undermine the tremendous contributions you have put
forward in the past and continue to do. Being paid, or not, is
independent of being a volunteer. Even paid, I believe we are all
volunteers here because we do what we love, and every bit counts.

After all these years I know better than to try to go against Walter's
wishes. I hereby withdraw my candidacy for the Translation Manager
position. I look forward to working with you on the aspects of the
position which I have the possibility and inclination to impact the
most, such as revamping our translation pipeline (fixing our tools,
removing bottlenecks), to get Pootle into shape and documenting a fully
offline scenario that will benefit native language efforts the most.

Hopefully we'll see a motion and a vote in this direction soon, and we
can put our differences aside. Apologies for any excess of passion.
Regards,

Sebastian
PS: Please don't read sarcasm in my words, I actively try to avoid it.



On 30/03/16 13:47, Chris Leonard wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Sebastian Silva
>  wrote:
>>
>> On 30/03/16 10:57, Chris Leonard wrote:
>>> Walter put it on the agenda for discussion at the SLOB meeting,
>>> obviously he plans to explain, I don't see why you would expect him
>>> reply to your widely broadcast message at this time, simply attend the
>>> SLOB meeting or read the transcript after and then raise further
>>> questions if you have them.  Two days is not too long to wait and
>>> Walter is a busy guy.
>> After how she was ignored in the last meeting [1] and the fact that the
>> proposal still is NOT in the agenda, I think she has a good reason to be
>> concerned.
>>
>> [1] http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/2016-03-04#i_2862389
>
> Sebastian, to quote your wife's e-mail "After a long talk with Edgar,
> I am very worried that you keep asking for funds on his name.".   In
> rhetorical terms, what you are doing is known as misdirection.  I was
> speaking to her expressed concerns about Edgar, not about her  "Sugar
> Translation Projects Fund" proposal.  I did not feel it necessary to
> address that point as Walter's agenda:
>
> Agenda:
> 1. Google Summer of Code status
> 2. Wiki Cleanup Party planning
> 3. Request from Edgar Quispe to attend Traducción e interpretación en
> las lenguas originarias del Perú meeting in Lima
> 4. I18n manager discussion
> 5. Proposal from Samson Goddy re i18n in Nigeria
> 6. YOUR TOPIC HERE
>
> includes an invitation for additional topic to be added (i.e. YOUR
> TOPIC HERE), but perhaps that was lost in translation.
>
>>> As for your speaking on Edgar's behalf about his plans, I think we can
>>> let Edgar speak for himself, he is a long standing member of the Sugar
>>> Labs L10n community and although it is unfortunate that some of the
>>> automated history of his contributions was lost in the Pootle
>>> migration, I can attest for the fact that he has submitted in excess
>>> of 20,000 words of Aymara L10n to Sugar.  The work he has done in
>>> Aymara provides the best model we have of how further funding of L10n
>>> should be done.  The exact terms under which Sugar Labs funded his
>>> work have been widely distributed.
>> Your long email is filled with errors.
> Please be specific, I welcome the opportunity to address any mistakes
> I may have made.
>
>> Please read the following emails (use an autotranslator and ask if you don't 
>> understand, sorry,
>> sugar-devel is supposed to be bilingual) in order to get an idea about
>> the issues surrounding the Aymara translation in Peru. Those emails had
>> Roger Gonzalo the translator hired by the Ministry of Education in copy.
>>
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2015-June/050416.html
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2015-June/050449.html
>>
>> In short, no, the Aymara work done last year from Sugar Labs