Re: [IAEP] "Windows Is Coming" (Dave Crossland)

[Dave Crossland]

Sam, I encourage you to find answers to that question :)

Lionel, I don't mean to discourage or disparage your work. I wish to
explore all the options for the future of the Sugar python codebase. I
would not be surprised if in 5 years Sugar python has been completely
abandoned and there is only Sugarizer, and OLPC OS is a Chromium distro.

:)
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Re: [IAEP] "Windows Is Coming" (Dave Crossland)

[Sam Parkinson]

The idea of running Sugar on NaCl is a good idea in my opinion.

* The Chrome web store "apps" are downloaded in some form - which is 
good as even an NaCl sugar would probs be 500mb+
* It would make a good "gateway sugar" for people as it is easy to run 
on many platforms.
* I would think of it as a VM, but just super easy to install, and 
eaiser for us to maintain

* Can we actually just run it as a VM under NaCl?

Thanks,
Sam

On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 7:07 AM, Lionel Laské  
wrote:


2016-05-20 5:18 GMT+02:00 :


If we want to grow Sugar's userbase 10x, I think Sugar must run not 
only on

GNU but also Windows and Mac OS X.


Guess I don't need to say that it's exactly my though :-)
FYI, I've qualified Sugarizer on Windows 10.
I've tested it both on Windows 10 Desktop and on Windows 10 Mobile.

A preview video is available here [1].
If you're interested to test it, you could generate yourself the 
package from the Cordova command line using instructions here [2] 
(replace "android" by "windows").


It will be available on Windows Store in the next version.

   Lionel.

[1] 
https://www.facebook.com/lionel.olpcfrance/videos/1008345415887862/
[2] 
https://github.com/llaske/sugarizer#build-client-for-android-or-ios


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Re: [IAEP] "Windows Is Coming" (Dave Crossland)

[Lionel Laské]

2016-05-20 5:18 GMT+02:00 :

>
> If we want to grow Sugar's userbase 10x, I think Sugar must run not only on
> GNU but also Windows and Mac OS X.
>

Guess I don't need to say that it's exactly my though :-)
FYI, I've qualified Sugarizer on Windows 10.
I've tested it both on Windows 10 Desktop and on Windows 10 Mobile.

A preview video is available here [1].
If you're interested to test it, you could generate yourself the package
from the Cordova command line using instructions here [2] (replace
"android" by "windows").

It will be available on Windows Store in the next version.

   Lionel.

[1] https://www.facebook.com/lionel.olpcfrance/videos/1008345415887862/
[2] https://github.com/llaske/sugarizer#build-client-for-android-or-ios
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Re: [IAEP] "Windows Is Coming"

[Dave Crossland]

On 20 May 2016 at 11:23, Sean DALY  wrote:

>
> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
>> Do you think Sugar's destiny is to become an app within another operating
>> system?
>
>
>
> I would rephrase this by quoting Scott Ananian:
>
> 
> "what are the essential parts of the Sugar experience"?  I would like
> these roughly as follows (you may have other ideas):
> a) the journal
> b) collaboration
> c) consistent look and feel ("visual design language") / toolbar, etc
> d) "view source"
> e) polyglot support
> 
>
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-January/041616.html
>

I would rephase your rephase:

Yes, a GNU/OSX/Win/NaCL app providing (a) through (e) is Sugar, and since
it is easier to install an app than an OS, this is likely to become the
dominant form of Sugar usage in 5 years time.

? :)

-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Trip Advisor Agreement?

[Walter Bender]

On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

>
> Hi
>
> In thread "Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [SLOBS] [SLOB] meeting reminder and
> some open issues to discuss" on 11 May 2016 at 14:05, Laura Vargas <
> la...@somosazucar.org> wrote:
>
>> there are ~US$65,000 available for planning/distributing among
>> activities/teams/projects etc.
>
>
> Hmm. I think the majority of this is only available within the boundaries
> set by the Trip Advisor grant; while "legally" the contractual agreement
> between Conservancy and Trip Advisor didn't set such boundaries, we are
> honour-bound to stay within them.
>
> Where is the Conservancy-TripAdvisor grant agreement?
> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/index.php?search=trip+advisor=Special%3ASearch=Go
> turns up nothing...
>

Here is the "Proposed use of Funds" section of the Trip Advisor Grant:

There are two specific goals for the Tripadvisor grant:

(1) Broaden the reach of our indigenous language support. Currently we have
language projects in ~150 languages (for example, we cover Aymara, Quechua,
Gurani and other languages of the Andes region). But the problem is
enormous: for example, in Nigeria, there are more than 300 languages
spoken. We only have partial coverage in four of these languages. We need
to push much harder on making Sugar be available in the local language of
the learner; this requires both outreach and coordination that is above and
beyond what we can support strictly through our volunteer efforts. So we
are hoping to establish a seed fund to help with translation efforts:
augmenting the efforts of our volunteers with some professional translation
services in Latin America, Africa, and South Asia.

(2) Support for a major new outreach initiative we are launching in October
2013. We are celebrating International Turtle Art Day (Turtle Art is a
programming environment for children that is one of the cornerstone apps
bundled with the Sugar platform.) We are trying to:
* Promote the use of Turtle Art (We have three million users, but would
like to double that number over the next three years);
* Share and promote best practices (We want to ensure that our users are
getting maximum value from their investment of time);
* Celebrate projects for children and teachers (We want to bring children
together to their local venues and connect them globally through a shared
project site to their peers as a way of encouraging them to push themselves
further -- creating a network effect around learning opportunities).

Internationalization and localization are on-going efforts for us and areas
we take quite seriously. As we expand to more regions, the need to develop
and sustain local localization teams is paramount to reaching more children
with our learning tools. We would use the Tripadvisor donation as the
initial basis of a fund to help
translation efforts both targeted opportunistically by Sugar Labs and on
demand by our user community, with an emphasis on expanding our reach in
Africa.

Turtle Art Day is scheduled for October 2013. (We already have venues lined
up in the United States, Peru, Colombia, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Uruguay,
Nigeria, India, and Australia). We hope that Turtle Art Day will be an
annual event, celebrated simultaneously in 100s of venues. We are asking
TAMG to be the inaugural event sponsor and to help us establish a framework
by which it can be readily replicated in the coming years.

The internationalization and localization work would be overseen by Chris
Leonard, the Sugar Labs Internationalization Team leader. The management of
the funds would be overseen by the executive director, Walter Bender, who
also happens to be the lead developer of the Turtle Art program. Sugar Labs
will provide Tripadvisor with detailed reports on all spending.

-walter

>
> --
> Cheers
> Dave
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [IAEP] Windows is Coming

[Dave Crossland]

On 20 May 2016 at 09:56, Sebastian Silva  wrote:

> While I have close-to-zero motivation to have activities run on Windows


Please explain why you feel this way. I am excited about the possibility of
running Sugar activities on Windows and Mac OS X.
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Re: [IAEP] "Windows Is Coming"

[Sebastian Silva]

El 20/05/16 a las 07:56, Dave Crossland escribió:

> I think Sugar would be installed as a dualboot on Chromebooks.  
My main machine was a chromebok for a couple of years until a
thunderstorm took its life. It was wonderful hardware, almost fatally
crippled with DRM. I had to dissassemble it, remove a 'security screw'
(properly named) in order to flash the firmware to avoid dangerous
"press space to have google format your drive" first boot warning. One
time I accidentally pushed space and it wiped the hard drive!
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Re: [IAEP] Windows is Coming

[Sebastian Silva]

While I have close-to-zero motivation to have activities run on Windows,
they probably do already as GTK has run and is supported in windows
since years ago.


El 20/05/16 a las 08:30, Sean DALY escribió:
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 12:46 PM, Tony Anderson  > wrote:
>
> Do you mean commands written in text?
>
>
>
> Yes, AFAIK no graphics programs.
> Sean
>
>
>
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Re: [IAEP] "Windows Is Coming"

[Dave Crossland]

On 20 May 2016 at 09:05, Walter Bender  wrote:

> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
>>
>> On 20 May 2016 at 00:16, Samuel Greenfeld  wrote:
>>
>>> If Sugar wants to be used in such environments, then it needs to work in
>>> a Chromebook's web browser or as an installed app.
>>>
>>
>> I think Sugar would be installed as a dualboot on Chromebooks.
>>
>
> We should publish clear directions on how to do this. But personally I
> don't believe it is a realistic option for most schools: supporting one
> system is more than most can manage. Supporting two is not likely.
>

Do you think Sugar's destiny is to become an app within another operating
system?
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Re: [IAEP] "Windows Is Coming"

[Walter Bender]

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

>
> On 20 May 2016 at 00:16, Samuel Greenfeld  wrote:
>
>> If Sugar wants to be used in such environments, then it needs to work in
>> a Chromebook's web browser or as an installed app.
>>
>
> I think Sugar would be installed as a dualboot on Chromebooks.
>

We should publish clear directions on how to do this. But personally I
don't believe it is a realistic option for most schools: supporting one
system is more than most can manage. Supporting two is not likely.

-walter

>
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-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [IAEP] "Windows Is Coming"

[Dave Crossland]

On 20 May 2016 at 00:16, Samuel Greenfeld  wrote:

> If Sugar wants to be used in such environments, then it needs to work in a
> Chromebook's web browser or as an installed app.
>

I think Sugar would be installed as a dualboot on Chromebooks.
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Re: [IAEP] SPL Sugar Project Leader + Sugar Project Secretary + Auditor team?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

On 20 May 2016 at 00:38, Laura Vargas  wrote:

> What do you think?
>

Debian has 1,000s of active contributors. From what I can see, we have a
couple dozen, tops, so I kindly offer that this kind of structuring is
wasted effort.

Here are the concrete actions that you listed, and how SL is getting them
done already, from my point of view :)

- represent the Project to others, giving talks and presentations about it,
attending trade shows, as well as building good relationships with other
organizations and companies, fundraising

We are all empowered to do this already :)

- manages the project and defines its vision

We are all empowered to do this on the wiki, github, and motions to SLOBs :)

- talk to other developers, assist their work; coordination and
communication

We are so small that everyone who is listening is here on this list :)

- conducting votes for the project -- notably the Project Leader elections,
but also any other votes that are run (General Resolutions, for example).

- determining the number and identity of the people eligible to vote, for
the purpose of calculating quorum

We don't need a position to do these 2 things, we need a person (or more)
to do it, and we here on this list are de facto the persons who could be
that person. So I suggest we just get on with it :)

- adjudicating any disputes about interpretation of the constitution

We already have an ombudsman for this

- keep track of project financial assets, income, expenditures and any
other financial information

You are doing a great job :D

- keep track of hardware resources and any other physical assets of the
project

I guess Walter and Bernie are doing this already

- keep track of domain names, trademarks, and any other intangible assets
of the project

I guess Conservancy is doing this already

- periodically publish public reports about changes in assets and resources
including (but not limited to): money coming in via donations, money being
spent with SLOB approval, new hardware bought, etc.

The finance manager motion Caryl drafted has requirements for this, but
until then, its a shared responsibility of SLOBs, and I am pretty happy
with how its been done

- keep track of organizations holding assets in trust for project and
propose to the SLOB changes in the list of trusted organization

Does any other org hold any SL assets in trust?

Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Windows is Coming

[Walter Bender]

Also, FWIW, for the first time, Chromebooks are now outselling Macs.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/19/11711714/chromebooks-outsold-macs-us-idc-figures

(While you can boot GNU/Linux on many Chromebooks, I don't think this is a
likely scenario for most schools.)

-walter

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 2:46 AM, Tony Anderson 
wrote:

> According to the news Google is making Android apps available on some
> Chromebooks (possibly including Sugarizer and GCompris).
>
> Windows 10 is making Ubuntu programs available by the command line - which
> could be shortcuts.
>
> Tony
>
> On 05/20/2016 06:16 AM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:
>
>> Send IAEP mailing list submissions to
>> iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> iaep-ow...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of IAEP digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Sugar network/ School Network (Laura Vargas) (Laura Vargas)
>> 2. Re: "Windows Is Coming" (Samuel Greenfeld)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 11:26:28 +0800
>> From: Laura Vargas 
>> To: Tony Anderson 
>> Cc: iaep 
>> Subject: Re: [IAEP] Sugar network/ School Network (Laura Vargas)
>> Message-ID:
>> 

Re: [IAEP] Windows is Coming

[Tony Anderson]

Hi Sean,

Do you mean commands written in text? The question may be whether Ubuntu 
programs can be started from a shortcut but I don't see how that would
not be possible. The information I read did not imply starting an os 
(although I suppose that could be done by a vm). What I read was that this
capability was an alternative to Cygwin. I don't have any hands-on 
experience to judge the quality of the MS/Ubuntu partnership.


However, I think the main point is that Sugar probably can be run in 
Windows 10 starting with the Ubuntu Sugar base. This might be a good 
project
for someone. One major advantage is that it would make it possible to 
demonstrate the capabilities of Sugar on a Windows machine for prospective

sponsors of olpc/Sugar deployments.

Tony

On 05/20/2016 12:37 PM, Sean DALY wrote:


On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Tony Anderson > wrote:


Windows 10 is making Ubuntu programs available by the command line
- which could be shortcuts.


Tony - text mode commandline only AFAIK, and Cygwin likely a better 
implementation


Sean



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Re: [IAEP] Windows is Coming

[Sean DALY]

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Tony Anderson 
wrote:

> Windows 10 is making Ubuntu programs available by the command line - which
> could be shortcuts.
>

Tony - text mode commandline only AFAIK, and Cygwin likely a better
implementation

Sean
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Re: [IAEP] Sugar network/ School Network (Laura Vargas)

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Sebastian and Laura

Thanks, that clarifies things greatly.

Tony

On 05/20/2016 09:27 AM, Sebastian Silva wrote:

El 20/05/16 a las 01:40, Tony Anderson escribió:


Hi, Laura

I am sorry but that leaves me still unclear on the dependence on the
internet. If each machine becomes a node, why is it necessary for it
to be a server? Where is the main node? Where are the content resources?

Tony

Hi Tony,

I can respond the more technical aspects. The node service provides the
same API when running locally as it does when acting as a server. This
is so that clients can interact with the Sugar Network even when
completely disconnected. When a node is acting as server, it will
synchronize content resources with nodes acting as clients. Each client
node has a resource cache of limited size. For example, clients may
choose to 'keep' a Sugar activity for using offline. Aleksey tweaked the
node for performance under low memory and disk space conditions (even on
XO1).

The full set of content resources resides in the node acting as server.
This is the only difference. Server nodes have been designed to sync
with each other. Currently there is a node server running on
node.sugarlabs.org, with a front-end running at
http://network.sugarlabs.org/ . This node is what Laura calls the `main
node`. It is running exactly the same software as we have on each XO,
and currently provides service for thousands of XOs. We haven't worked
directly in schools to deploy local server nodes, but conceivably, we could.

Regards,
Sebastian
.



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Re: [IAEP] Sugar network/ School Network (Laura Vargas)

[Sebastian Silva]

El 20/05/16 a las 01:40, Tony Anderson escribió:

> Hi, Laura
>
> I am sorry but that leaves me still unclear on the dependence on the
> internet. If each machine becomes a node, why is it necessary for it
> to be a server? Where is the main node? Where are the content resources?
>
> Tony

Hi Tony,

I can respond the more technical aspects. The node service provides the
same API when running locally as it does when acting as a server. This
is so that clients can interact with the Sugar Network even when
completely disconnected. When a node is acting as server, it will
synchronize content resources with nodes acting as clients. Each client
node has a resource cache of limited size. For example, clients may
choose to 'keep' a Sugar activity for using offline. Aleksey tweaked the
node for performance under low memory and disk space conditions (even on
XO1).

The full set of content resources resides in the node acting as server.
This is the only difference. Server nodes have been designed to sync
with each other. Currently there is a node server running on
node.sugarlabs.org, with a front-end running at
http://network.sugarlabs.org/ . This node is what Laura calls the `main
node`. It is running exactly the same software as we have on each XO,
and currently provides service for thousands of XOs. We haven't worked
directly in schools to deploy local server nodes, but conceivably, we could.

Regards,
Sebastian
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Re: [IAEP] Windows is Coming

[Tony Anderson]

According to the news Google is making Android apps available on some 
Chromebooks (possibly including Sugarizer and GCompris).


Windows 10 is making Ubuntu programs available by the command line - 
which could be shortcuts.


Tony

On 05/20/2016 06:16 AM, iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:

Send IAEP mailing list submissions to
iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
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iaep-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org

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iaep-ow...@lists.sugarlabs.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of IAEP digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Re: Sugar network/ School Network (Laura Vargas) (Laura Vargas)
2. Re: "Windows Is Coming" (Samuel Greenfeld)


--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 11:26:28 +0800
From: Laura Vargas 
To: Tony Anderson 
Cc: iaep 
Subject: Re: [IAEP] Sugar network/ School Network (Laura Vargas)
Message-ID:

Re: [IAEP] Sugar network/ School Network (Laura Vargas)

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Laura

I am sorry but that leaves me still unclear on the dependence on the 
internet. If each machine becomes a node, why is it necessary for it to 
be a server? Where is the main node? Where are the content resources?


Tony

On 05/20/2016 05:26 AM, Laura Vargas wrote:
2016-05-19 20:40 GMT+08:00 Tony Anderson >:


Hi, Laura

Hi Tony!

Sorry about my confusing  message with the digest title.

No problem :D

I tried the Sugar network several years ago but decided that it
was not usable because it is dependent on internet access. Is that
still the case?

I'll rescue the text from the original thread:

"The node service runs locally on each machine. Thus, the node would 
have to be included in the Sugar distribution. The node offers an API 
for accessing/interaction with Sugar Network resources."


Basically this means that each machine could become a server for a 
local Sugar Network node. Still, some work would have to be done to 
achieve synchronization with the main node.


That said, the last production version was made for Sugar 0.94. There 
would be important work to be done if you want it to run with a newer 
version.


Regards and blessings,

laura V

Tony

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--
Laura V.
I SomosAZUCAR.Org

Identi.ca/Skype acaire
IRC kaametza

Happy Learning!



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