Re: [IAEP] How to navigate sugar-desktop (actually the Journal activity?) in my vanilla F29

2018-11-25 Thread James Cameron 
Yes, the bug was detected in July 2017, but that was with pre-release
software that we wouldn't have had newbies using.  It wasn't until our
collective inaction had matured and the release of Fedora and Ubuntu
happened that newbies began to see it.

Yes, an "errata" could be useful, but that brings the problem of
maintaining the errata.  I've made a start here;

https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/labels/errata

Not all bugs are present in all releases.  The combinational
matrix of bugs vs releases of Fedora or Ubuntu would probably cost
someone half an hour a week to keep an errata article up to date.  If
you're willing to maintain that, thanks!

https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Getting_Started is terribly out of date
as well.  So few people updating the Wiki now that most work has moved
to GitHub.

What tends to happen is that someone says something on the Wiki, and
it sits there never verified for years.  Almost like nobody is willing
to verify and remove old information.

At heart, we aren't rowing in the same boat.  Each boat is rowing in a
slightly different direction.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 01:47:13AM -0500, Kevin wrote:
> Ok. But it looks like this bug has been a problem since July 2017? I
> wonder how many sugar newbies tried it and gave up in the 17 or so
> months since then?
> 
> In retrospect, it occurs to me that if I had used google to search for
> "sugar journal bug" then I could have avoided taking the time to write
> this lengthy post describing this problem, but it just didn't occur to
> me that it could have been a bug before you brought the bug to my attention.
> 
> So what about a wiki article entitled "errata" or something similar that
> would be a single place that could change more frequently as bugs and/or
> other events come and go? Then perhaps all of the various pages that are
> designed to help newbies like me install sugar could point to the errata
> page? And for now (until this bug gets fixed), that might help other
> sugar newbies with the current problem.
> 
> I think a good first place to direct newbies to this errata article
> might be at https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Getting_Started (that was one
> of the first pages I read).
> 
> If that would be helpful, I'll volunteer to do it (write the errata
> article and link to it in the Getting Started article). Or should I ask
> about this in another list maybe?
> 
> 
> On 11/26/18 1:31 AM, James Cameron wrote:
> > Perhaps, but the bug isn't specific to Fedora.  It happens also on
> > Debian, Ubuntu and others, as soon as they upgrade Metacity.
> >
> > I'd prefer we fix the bug than document it everywhere, because after
> > the bug is fixed people keep finding documents that refer to it.
> >
> > Also, I'm not sure
> > https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Installation is
> > current; it has old references to Fedora 24 and Windows 7.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 01:21:25AM -0500, Kevin wrote:
> >> Oh! Ok. Thanks for explaining, James! Would it be helpful if I added some 
> >> words
> >> about this bug to the [1]wiki article that got me started?
> >>
> >> On 11/26/18 1:15 AM, James Cameron wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks for the report.
> >>
> >> You're hitting a known bug we are working on.
> >>
> >> Press F3 key to show the home view, or move the mouse to the corner,
> >> wait for the Frame to appear, and select the home view that way.
> >>
> >> [2]https://help.sugarlabs.org/en/home_view.html
> >>
> >> The bug was introduced by the Metacity window manager and is being
> >> tracked in several places;
> >>
> >> [3]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/issues/769#issuecomment-441350118
> >> [4]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/issues/368
> >> [5]https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1519042
> >>
> >> You can take a screenshot with Alt-1, and it will be added to the
> >> Journal, but it isn't necessary, I know what you've hit.
> >>
> >> If you know any developers interested in helping to fix this, send
> >> them to me!
> >>
> >> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 01:04:25AM -0500, Kevin wrote:
> >>
> 
> >> When I enter my kid's username and password at the gnome display 
> >> manager in F29
> >> and select the Sugar desktop, I do see the "Click to change 
> >> color:" screen.
> >> After I click "Next" on this screen, then I see a screen to choose 
> >> gender.
> >> After I click "Next" on this screen, then I see a screen to choose 
> >> a grade.
> >> After I click "Done" on this screen, I don't see my XO character 
> >> at the center
> >> of a spiral of Activity icons like I do at 
> >> [4][8]https://try.sugarizer.org. I
> >> don't see anything like it at all. I can't take a screenshot of it 
> >> because the
> >> screen seems to have no functionality for that at all. In the 
> >> middle of a white
> >> screen I see a gray icon of a three-ring binder and the phrase: 
> >> "Your Journal
> >>

Re: [IAEP] How to navigate sugar-desktop (actually the Journal activity?) in my vanilla F29

2018-11-25 Thread Kevin 
Ok. But it looks like this bug has been a problem since July 2017? I
wonder how many sugar newbies tried it and gave up in the 17 or so
months since then?

In retrospect, it occurs to me that if I had used google to search for
"sugar journal bug" then I could have avoided taking the time to write
this lengthy post describing this problem, but it just didn't occur to
me that it could have been a bug before you brought the bug to my attention.

So what about a wiki article entitled "errata" or something similar that
would be a single place that could change more frequently as bugs and/or
other events come and go? Then perhaps all of the various pages that are
designed to help newbies like me install sugar could point to the errata
page? And for now (until this bug gets fixed), that might help other
sugar newbies with the current problem.

I think a good first place to direct newbies to this errata article
might be at https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Getting_Started (that was one
of the first pages I read).

If that would be helpful, I'll volunteer to do it (write the errata
article and link to it in the Getting Started article). Or should I ask
about this in another list maybe?


On 11/26/18 1:31 AM, James Cameron wrote:
> Perhaps, but the bug isn't specific to Fedora.  It happens also on
> Debian, Ubuntu and others, as soon as they upgrade Metacity.
>
> I'd prefer we fix the bug than document it everywhere, because after
> the bug is fixed people keep finding documents that refer to it.
>
> Also, I'm not sure
> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Installation is
> current; it has old references to Fedora 24 and Windows 7.
>
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 01:21:25AM -0500, Kevin wrote:
>> Oh! Ok. Thanks for explaining, James! Would it be helpful if I added some 
>> words
>> about this bug to the [1]wiki article that got me started?
>>
>> On 11/26/18 1:15 AM, James Cameron wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the report.
>>
>> You're hitting a known bug we are working on.
>>
>> Press F3 key to show the home view, or move the mouse to the corner,
>> wait for the Frame to appear, and select the home view that way.
>>
>> [2]https://help.sugarlabs.org/en/home_view.html
>>
>> The bug was introduced by the Metacity window manager and is being
>> tracked in several places;
>>
>> [3]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/issues/769#issuecomment-441350118
>> [4]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/issues/368
>> [5]https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1519042
>>
>> You can take a screenshot with Alt-1, and it will be added to the
>> Journal, but it isn't necessary, I know what you've hit.
>>
>> If you know any developers interested in helping to fix this, send
>> them to me!
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 01:04:25AM -0500, Kevin wrote:
>>

>> When I enter my kid's username and password at the gnome display 
>> manager in F29
>> and select the Sugar desktop, I do see the "Click to change color:" 
>> screen.
>> After I click "Next" on this screen, then I see a screen to choose 
>> gender.
>> After I click "Next" on this screen, then I see a screen to choose a 
>> grade.
>> After I click "Done" on this screen, I don't see my XO character at 
>> the center
>> of a spiral of Activity icons like I do at 
>> [4][8]https://try.sugarizer.org. I
>> don't see anything like it at all. I can't take a screenshot of it 
>> because the
>> screen seems to have no functionality for that at all. In the middle 
>> of a white
>> screen I see a gray icon of a three-ring binder and the phrase: 
>> "Your Journal
>> is empty". In the black top bar or "title bar", I see a small gray 
>> magnifying
>> glass search icon in a white text box that reads "Search in Journal" 
>> on the far
>> left, and then proceeding from left to right, I see a white star, 
>> then a white
>> box icon with its four top flaps open, then two drop-down menus that 
>> read
>> "Anything" (entitled "Select filter") and "Anytime" (also entitled 
>> "Select
>> filter" with date options like "Today" and "Since yesterday"), 
>> respectively,
>> then lastly I see an icon of a pencil writing on a piece of paper 
>> with upward
>> and downward pointing triangles (another drop-down menu entitled 
>> "Sort view").
>>
>> I get the impression that in my F29/Sugar desktop described above, 
>> I'm looking
>> at the Journal Activity, not the spiral collection of Activity icons 
>> that I see
>> at [5][9]https://try.sugarizer.org.
>>
>>
>>

___
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IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] How to navigate sugar-desktop (actually the Journal activity?) in my vanilla F29

2018-11-25 Thread James Cameron 
Perhaps, but the bug isn't specific to Fedora.  It happens also on
Debian, Ubuntu and others, as soon as they upgrade Metacity.

I'd prefer we fix the bug than document it everywhere, because after
the bug is fixed people keep finding documents that refer to it.

Also, I'm not sure
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Installation is
current; it has old references to Fedora 24 and Windows 7.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 01:21:25AM -0500, Kevin wrote:
> Oh! Ok. Thanks for explaining, James! Would it be helpful if I added some 
> words
> about this bug to the [1]wiki article that got me started?
> 
> On 11/26/18 1:15 AM, James Cameron wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the report.
> 
> You're hitting a known bug we are working on.
> 
> Press F3 key to show the home view, or move the mouse to the corner,
> wait for the Frame to appear, and select the home view that way.
> 
> [2]https://help.sugarlabs.org/en/home_view.html
> 
> The bug was introduced by the Metacity window manager and is being
> tracked in several places;
> 
> [3]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/issues/769#issuecomment-441350118
> [4]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/issues/368
> [5]https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1519042
> 
> You can take a screenshot with Alt-1, and it will be added to the
> Journal, but it isn't necessary, I know what you've hit.
> 
> If you know any developers interested in helping to fix this, send
> them to me!
> 
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 01:04:25AM -0500, Kevin wrote:
> 
> Hi all, and thanks for making and sharing sugar. It looks like 
> wonderful
> software.
> 
> I'd like to introduce my 8yo kid to sugar, so I installed vanilla F29 
> on an old
> MacBook Pro, updated all installed software via yum (no apparent 
> problems with
> that much), and then I followed the instructions I found [1]here:
> 
> ==
> 
> Using Sugar as a Desktop Environment
> 
> Install Fedora. Then, in a Terminal, type:
> 
> sudo dnf groupinstall sugar-desktop
> 
> Then restart your computer. At the Sign in select the Sugar desktop.
> 
> ==
> 
> I did that, and after having done so, I don't have the same 
> experience that I
> see when I go to [2][6]https://try.sugarizer.org.
> 
> When I visit [3][7]https://try.sugarizer.org I see two options to 
> click: "New
> user" and "Login", so I chose the former. Then I see "Choose name" 
> and I type a
> trial name in to the text field and click "Next". Then I see "Choose 
> at least 4
> images:" and I click on "a", "b", "c", and "d" and then click "Next". 
> And now I
> see "Click to change color:", and here is where there is one page 
> that has some
> common features with my F29/Sugar desktop environment. So I click 
> until I like
> a color combination for my trial XO character and then click "Done." 
> Then I see
> a spinny icon and shortly afterwards I see my XO character at the 
> center of a
> spiral of Activity icons that I suspect is very familiar to everyone 
> here (what
> I think of as the Sugar desktop).
> 
> But this differs in some important ways from what I see in my 
> F29/Sugar desktop
> environment.
> 
> When I enter my kid's username and password at the gnome display 
> manager in F29
> and select the Sugar desktop, I do see the "Click to change color:" 
> screen.
> After I click "Next" on this screen, then I see a screen to choose 
> gender.
> After I click "Next" on this screen, then I see a screen to choose a 
> grade.
> After I click "Done" on this screen, I don't see my XO character at 
> the center
> of a spiral of Activity icons like I do at 
> [4][8]https://try.sugarizer.org. I
> don't see anything like it at all. I can't take a screenshot of it 
> because the
> screen seems to have no functionality for that at all. In the middle 
> of a white
> screen I see a gray icon of a three-ring binder and the phrase: "Your 
> Journal
> is empty". In the black top bar or "title bar", I see a small gray 
> magnifying
> glass search icon in a white text box that reads "Search in Journal" 
> on the far
> left, and then proceeding from left to right, I see a white star, 
> then a white
> box icon with its four top flaps open, then two drop-down menus that 
> read
> "Anything" (entitled "Select filter") and "Anytime" (also entitled 
> "Select
> filter" with date options like "Today" and "Since yesterday"), 
> respectively,
> then lastly I see an icon of a pencil writing on a piece of paper 
> with upward
> and downward pointing triangles (another drop-down menu entitled 
> "Sort view").
> 
> I get the impression that in my F29/Sugar desktop described a

Re: [IAEP] How to navigate sugar-desktop (actually the Journal activity?) in my vanilla F29

2018-11-25 Thread Kevin 
Oh! Ok. Thanks for explaining, James! Would it be helpful if I added
some words about this bug to the wiki article
 that got
me started?


On 11/26/18 1:15 AM, James Cameron wrote:
> Thanks for the report.
>
> You're hitting a known bug we are working on.
>
> Press F3 key to show the home view, or move the mouse to the corner,
> wait for the Frame to appear, and select the home view that way.
>
> https://help.sugarlabs.org/en/home_view.html
>
> The bug was introduced by the Metacity window manager and is being
> tracked in several places;
>
> https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/issues/769#issuecomment-441350118
> https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/issues/368
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1519042
>
> You can take a screenshot with Alt-1, and it will be added to the
> Journal, but it isn't necessary, I know what you've hit.
>
> If you know any developers interested in helping to fix this, send
> them to me!
>
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 01:04:25AM -0500, Kevin wrote:
>> Hi all, and thanks for making and sharing sugar. It looks like wonderful
>> software.
>>
>> I'd like to introduce my 8yo kid to sugar, so I installed vanilla F29 on an 
>> old
>> MacBook Pro, updated all installed software via yum (no apparent problems 
>> with
>> that much), and then I followed the instructions I found [1]here:
>>
>> ==
>>
>> Using Sugar as a Desktop Environment
>>
>> Install Fedora. Then, in a Terminal, type:
>>
>> sudo dnf groupinstall sugar-desktop
>>
>> Then restart your computer. At the Sign in select the Sugar desktop.
>>
>> ==
>>
>> I did that, and after having done so, I don't have the same experience that I
>> see when I go to [2]https://try.sugarizer.org.
>>
>> When I visit [3]https://try.sugarizer.org I see two options to click: "New
>> user" and "Login", so I chose the former. Then I see "Choose name" and I 
>> type a
>> trial name in to the text field and click "Next". Then I see "Choose at 
>> least 4
>> images:" and I click on "a", "b", "c", and "d" and then click "Next". And 
>> now I
>> see "Click to change color:", and here is where there is one page that has 
>> some
>> common features with my F29/Sugar desktop environment. So I click until I 
>> like
>> a color combination for my trial XO character and then click "Done." Then I 
>> see
>> a spinny icon and shortly afterwards I see my XO character at the center of a
>> spiral of Activity icons that I suspect is very familiar to everyone here 
>> (what
>> I think of as the Sugar desktop).
>>
>> But this differs in some important ways from what I see in my F29/Sugar 
>> desktop
>> environment.
>>
>> When I enter my kid's username and password at the gnome display manager in 
>> F29
>> and select the Sugar desktop, I do see the "Click to change color:" screen.
>> After I click "Next" on this screen, then I see a screen to choose gender.
>> After I click "Next" on this screen, then I see a screen to choose a grade.
>> After I click "Done" on this screen, I don't see my XO character at the 
>> center
>> of a spiral of Activity icons like I do at [4]https://try.sugarizer.org. I
>> don't see anything like it at all. I can't take a screenshot of it because 
>> the
>> screen seems to have no functionality for that at all. In the middle of a 
>> white
>> screen I see a gray icon of a three-ring binder and the phrase: "Your Journal
>> is empty". In the black top bar or "title bar", I see a small gray magnifying
>> glass search icon in a white text box that reads "Search in Journal" on the 
>> far
>> left, and then proceeding from left to right, I see a white star, then a 
>> white
>> box icon with its four top flaps open, then two drop-down menus that read
>> "Anything" (entitled "Select filter") and "Anytime" (also entitled "Select
>> filter" with date options like "Today" and "Since yesterday"), respectively,
>> then lastly I see an icon of a pencil writing on a piece of paper with upward
>> and downward pointing triangles (another drop-down menu entitled "Sort 
>> view").
>>
>> I get the impression that in my F29/Sugar desktop described above, I'm 
>> looking
>> at the Journal Activity, not the spiral collection of Activity icons that I 
>> see
>> at [5]https://try.sugarizer.org.
>>
>> In [6]https://try.sugarizer.org, I see the same three-ring binder icon just
>> below the XO character, and when I click on it at 
>> [7]https://try.sugarizer.org,
>> I'm taken to a screen that is similar to my desktop in my F29/Sugar desktop
>> ("Search in journal", white star, "Anything" and "Anytime" drop-down menus, a
>> question mark inside a circle, and finally a dot inside a circle on the far
>> right; and the same three-ring binder icon in the center of the screen above
>> the words "Your journal is empty"). But I can exit this screen and return to
>> the spiral of Activity icons by clicking the dot-in-circle icon. There is no
>> way I can find to exit the Journal ac

Re: [IAEP] How to navigate sugar-desktop (actually the Journal activity?) in my vanilla F29

2018-11-25 Thread Kevin 
Thanks for your suggestion, Dave. I don't think that's the problem though.

Fortunately however, I think I may have figured this out.

After logging in with my kid's credentials again, I had the same
experience of automatically entering the Journal activity again. But I
experimented more aggressively this time and discovered that when I drag
the pointer to the lower left corner of the display, the existing
display shrinks slightly and some new options appear at the periphery of it.

The new options are (when I hover over them): "Neighborhood F1", "Group
F2", "Home F3", "Activity F4", and "Journal F5" on the top left, my XO
character on the top right, and "Wired Network", "My Display", "Speech",
"My Audio", and "My Battery" on the bottom right.

When I click the dot-in-circle icon ("Home F3"), I'm taken to a screen
that has my XO character in the center surrounded by a circle of
Activity icons. I think this is the Sugar desktop I'm supposed to see.
But why is the default behavior to enter the Journal activity upon
logging in?

Thanks again.

Best,

Kevin


On 11/26/18 1:09 AM, Dave Crossland wrote:
> What sugar activity packages did you install vis yum? My guess is you
> don't have any pulled in as dependencies from sugar-desktop. 
>
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 11:05 PM Kevin 
> Hi all, and thanks for making and sharing sugar. It looks like
> wonderful software.
>
> I'd like to introduce my 8yo kid to sugar, so I installed vanilla
> F29 on an old MacBook Pro, updated all installed software via yum
> (no apparent problems with that much), and then I followed the
> instructions I found here
> :
>
> ==
>
> Using Sugar as a Desktop Environment
>
> Install Fedora. Then, in a Terminal, type:
>
> sudo dnf groupinstall sugar-desktop
>
> Then restart your computer. At the Sign in select the Sugar desktop.
>
> ==
>
> I did that, and after having done so, I don't have the same
> experience that I see when I go to https://try.sugarizer.org.
>
> When I visit https://try.sugarizer.org I see two options to click:
> "New user" and "Login", so I chose the former. Then I see "Choose
> name" and I type a trial name in to the text field and click
> "Next". Then I see "Choose at least 4 images:" and I click on "a",
> "b", "c", and "d" and then click "Next". And now I see "Click to
> change color:", and here is where there is one page that has some
> common features with my F29/Sugar desktop environment. So I click
> until I like a color combination for my trial XO character and
> then click "Done." Then I see a spinny icon and shortly afterwards
> I see my XO character at the center of a spiral of Activity icons
> that I suspect is very familiar to everyone here (what I think of
> as the Sugar desktop).
>
> But this differs in some important ways from what I see in my
> F29/Sugar desktop environment.
>
> When I enter my kid's username and password at the gnome display
> manager in F29 and select the Sugar desktop, I do see the "Click
> to change color:" screen. After I click "Next" on this screen,
> then I see a screen to choose gender. After I click "Next" on this
> screen, then I see a screen to choose a grade. After I click
> "Done" on this screen, I don't see my XO character at the center
> of a spiral of Activity icons like I do at
> https://try.sugarizer.org. I don't see anything like it at all. I
> can't take a screenshot of it because the screen seems to have no
> functionality for that at all. In the middle of a white screen I
> see a gray icon of a three-ring binder and the phrase: "Your
> Journal is empty". In the black top bar or "title bar", I see a
> small gray magnifying glass search icon in a white text box that
> reads "Search in Journal" on the far left, and then proceeding
> from left to right, I see a white star, then a white box icon with
> its four top flaps open, then two drop-down menus that read
> "Anything" (entitled "Select filter") and "Anytime" (also entitled
> "Select filter" with date options like "Today" and "Since
> yesterday"), respectively, then lastly I see an icon of a pencil
> writing on a piece of paper with upward and downward pointing
> triangles (another drop-down menu entitled "Sort view").
>
> I get the impression that in my F29/Sugar desktop described above,
> I'm looking at the Journal Activity, not the spiral collection of
> Activity icons that I see at https://try.sugarizer.org.
>
> In https://try.sugarizer.org, I see the same three-ring binder
> icon just below the XO character, and when I click on it at
> https://try.sugarizer.org, I'm taken to a screen that is similar
> to my desktop in my F29/Sugar desktop ("Search in journal", white
> star, "Anything" and "Anytime" d

Re: [IAEP] How to navigate sugar-desktop (actually the Journal activity?) in my vanilla F29

2018-11-25 Thread James Cameron 
Thanks for the report.

You're hitting a known bug we are working on.

Press F3 key to show the home view, or move the mouse to the corner,
wait for the Frame to appear, and select the home view that way.

https://help.sugarlabs.org/en/home_view.html

The bug was introduced by the Metacity window manager and is being
tracked in several places;

https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/issues/769#issuecomment-441350118
https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/issues/368
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1519042

You can take a screenshot with Alt-1, and it will be added to the
Journal, but it isn't necessary, I know what you've hit.

If you know any developers interested in helping to fix this, send
them to me!

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 01:04:25AM -0500, Kevin wrote:
> Hi all, and thanks for making and sharing sugar. It looks like wonderful
> software.
> 
> I'd like to introduce my 8yo kid to sugar, so I installed vanilla F29 on an 
> old
> MacBook Pro, updated all installed software via yum (no apparent problems with
> that much), and then I followed the instructions I found [1]here:
> 
> ==
> 
> Using Sugar as a Desktop Environment
> 
> Install Fedora. Then, in a Terminal, type:
> 
> sudo dnf groupinstall sugar-desktop
> 
> Then restart your computer. At the Sign in select the Sugar desktop.
> 
> ==
> 
> I did that, and after having done so, I don't have the same experience that I
> see when I go to [2]https://try.sugarizer.org.
> 
> When I visit [3]https://try.sugarizer.org I see two options to click: "New
> user" and "Login", so I chose the former. Then I see "Choose name" and I type 
> a
> trial name in to the text field and click "Next". Then I see "Choose at least 
> 4
> images:" and I click on "a", "b", "c", and "d" and then click "Next". And now 
> I
> see "Click to change color:", and here is where there is one page that has 
> some
> common features with my F29/Sugar desktop environment. So I click until I like
> a color combination for my trial XO character and then click "Done." Then I 
> see
> a spinny icon and shortly afterwards I see my XO character at the center of a
> spiral of Activity icons that I suspect is very familiar to everyone here 
> (what
> I think of as the Sugar desktop).
> 
> But this differs in some important ways from what I see in my F29/Sugar 
> desktop
> environment.
> 
> When I enter my kid's username and password at the gnome display manager in 
> F29
> and select the Sugar desktop, I do see the "Click to change color:" screen.
> After I click "Next" on this screen, then I see a screen to choose gender.
> After I click "Next" on this screen, then I see a screen to choose a grade.
> After I click "Done" on this screen, I don't see my XO character at the center
> of a spiral of Activity icons like I do at [4]https://try.sugarizer.org. I
> don't see anything like it at all. I can't take a screenshot of it because the
> screen seems to have no functionality for that at all. In the middle of a 
> white
> screen I see a gray icon of a three-ring binder and the phrase: "Your Journal
> is empty". In the black top bar or "title bar", I see a small gray magnifying
> glass search icon in a white text box that reads "Search in Journal" on the 
> far
> left, and then proceeding from left to right, I see a white star, then a white
> box icon with its four top flaps open, then two drop-down menus that read
> "Anything" (entitled "Select filter") and "Anytime" (also entitled "Select
> filter" with date options like "Today" and "Since yesterday"), respectively,
> then lastly I see an icon of a pencil writing on a piece of paper with upward
> and downward pointing triangles (another drop-down menu entitled "Sort view").
> 
> I get the impression that in my F29/Sugar desktop described above, I'm looking
> at the Journal Activity, not the spiral collection of Activity icons that I 
> see
> at [5]https://try.sugarizer.org.
> 
> In [6]https://try.sugarizer.org, I see the same three-ring binder icon just
> below the XO character, and when I click on it at 
> [7]https://try.sugarizer.org,
> I'm taken to a screen that is similar to my desktop in my F29/Sugar desktop
> ("Search in journal", white star, "Anything" and "Anytime" drop-down menus, a
> question mark inside a circle, and finally a dot inside a circle on the far
> right; and the same three-ring binder icon in the center of the screen above
> the words "Your journal is empty"). But I can exit this screen and return to
> the spiral of Activity icons by clicking the dot-in-circle icon. There is no
> way I can find to exit the Journal activity in my F29/Sugar desktop.
> 
> When I burned the SoaS iso to a DVD-R and booted into that on this old MacBook
> Pro, I had the exact same experience as I described above when logging into
> this vanilla F29 OS and selecting the Sugar desktop within the gnome display
> manager.
> 
> So my question is, how do I make my F29/Sugar desktop (apparently just the
> Journal a

Re: [IAEP] How to navigate sugar-desktop (actually the Journal activity?) in my vanilla F29

2018-11-25 Thread Dave Crossland 
What sugar activity packages did you install vis yum? My guess is you don't
have any pulled in as dependencies from sugar-desktop.

On Sun, Nov 25, 2018, 11:05 PM Kevin  Hi all, and thanks for making and sharing sugar. It looks like wonderful
> software.
>
> I'd like to introduce my 8yo kid to sugar, so I installed vanilla F29 on
> an old MacBook Pro, updated all installed software via yum (no apparent
> problems with that much), and then I followed the instructions I found
> here :
>
> ==
>
> Using Sugar as a Desktop Environment
>
> Install Fedora. Then, in a Terminal, type:
>
> sudo dnf groupinstall sugar-desktop
>
> Then restart your computer. At the Sign in select the Sugar desktop.
>
> ==
>
> I did that, and after having done so, I don't have the same experience
> that I see when I go to https://try.sugarizer.org.
>
> When I visit https://try.sugarizer.org I see two options to click: "New
> user" and "Login", so I chose the former. Then I see "Choose name" and I
> type a trial name in to the text field and click "Next". Then I see "Choose
> at least 4 images:" and I click on "a", "b", "c", and "d" and then click
> "Next". And now I see "Click to change color:", and here is where there is
> one page that has some common features with my F29/Sugar desktop
> environment. So I click until I like a color combination for my trial XO
> character and then click "Done." Then I see a spinny icon and shortly
> afterwards I see my XO character at the center of a spiral of Activity
> icons that I suspect is very familiar to everyone here (what I think of as
> the Sugar desktop).
>
> But this differs in some important ways from what I see in my F29/Sugar
> desktop environment.
>
> When I enter my kid's username and password at the gnome display manager
> in F29 and select the Sugar desktop, I do see the "Click to change color:"
> screen. After I click "Next" on this screen, then I see a screen to choose
> gender. After I click "Next" on this screen, then I see a screen to choose
> a grade. After I click "Done" on this screen, I don't see my XO character
> at the center of a spiral of Activity icons like I do at
> https://try.sugarizer.org. I don't see anything like it at all. I can't
> take a screenshot of it because the screen seems to have no functionality
> for that at all. In the middle of a white screen I see a gray icon of a
> three-ring binder and the phrase: "Your Journal is empty". In the black top
> bar or "title bar", I see a small gray magnifying glass search icon in a
> white text box that reads "Search in Journal" on the far left, and then
> proceeding from left to right, I see a white star, then a white box icon
> with its four top flaps open, then two drop-down menus that read "Anything"
> (entitled "Select filter") and "Anytime" (also entitled "Select filter"
> with date options like "Today" and "Since yesterday"), respectively, then
> lastly I see an icon of a pencil writing on a piece of paper with upward
> and downward pointing triangles (another drop-down menu entitled "Sort
> view").
>
> I get the impression that in my F29/Sugar desktop described above, I'm
> looking at the Journal Activity, not the spiral collection of Activity
> icons that I see at https://try.sugarizer.org.
>
> In https://try.sugarizer.org, I see the same three-ring binder icon just
> below the XO character, and when I click on it at
> https://try.sugarizer.org, I'm taken to a screen that is similar to my
> desktop in my F29/Sugar desktop ("Search in journal", white star,
> "Anything" and "Anytime" drop-down menus, a question mark inside a circle,
> and finally a dot inside a circle on the far right; and the same three-ring
> binder icon in the center of the screen above the words "Your journal is
> empty"). But I can exit this screen and return to the spiral of Activity
> icons by clicking the dot-in-circle icon. There is no way I can find to
> exit the Journal activity in my F29/Sugar desktop.
>
> When I burned the SoaS iso to a DVD-R and booted into that on this old
> MacBook Pro, I had the exact same experience as I described above when
> logging into this vanilla F29 OS and selecting the Sugar desktop within the
> gnome display manager.
>
> So my question is, how do I make my F29/Sugar desktop (apparently just the
> Journal activity) look something like what I see at
> https://try.sugarizer.org (which I think is what I'm supposed to be
> seeing: the Sugar desktop)?
>
> As it is now, the only thing I can really do in my F29/Sugar desktop is to
> kill -9 the only running process that I see owned by my kid's account when
> I issue the "[alpha@localhost ~]$ w" command (/usr/libexec/gdm-x-session
> --run-script sugar). I do this while logged into F29 as another user in
> either a virtual console or in the gnome desktop environment running a
> terminal window. Then I can login as my kid again and go through the same
> stuck-in-journal-acti

[IAEP] How to navigate sugar-desktop (actually the Journal activity?) in my vanilla F29

2018-11-25 Thread Kevin 
Hi all, and thanks for making and sharing sugar. It looks like wonderful
software.

I'd like to introduce my 8yo kid to sugar, so I installed vanilla F29 on
an old MacBook Pro, updated all installed software via yum (no apparent
problems with that much), and then I followed the instructions I found
here :

==

Using Sugar as a Desktop Environment

Install Fedora. Then, in a Terminal, type:

sudo dnf groupinstall sugar-desktop

Then restart your computer. At the Sign in select the Sugar desktop.

==

I did that, and after having done so, I don't have the same experience
that I see when I go to https://try.sugarizer.org.

When I visit https://try.sugarizer.org I see two options to click: "New
user" and "Login", so I chose the former. Then I see "Choose name" and I
type a trial name in to the text field and click "Next". Then I see
"Choose at least 4 images:" and I click on "a", "b", "c", and "d" and
then click "Next". And now I see "Click to change color:", and here is
where there is one page that has some common features with my F29/Sugar
desktop environment. So I click until I like a color combination for my
trial XO character and then click "Done." Then I see a spinny icon and
shortly afterwards I see my XO character at the center of a spiral of
Activity icons that I suspect is very familiar to everyone here (what I
think of as the Sugar desktop).

But this differs in some important ways from what I see in my F29/Sugar
desktop environment.

When I enter my kid's username and password at the gnome display manager
in F29 and select the Sugar desktop, I do see the "Click to change
color:" screen. After I click "Next" on this screen, then I see a screen
to choose gender. After I click "Next" on this screen, then I see a
screen to choose a grade. After I click "Done" on this screen, I don't
see my XO character at the center of a spiral of Activity icons like I
do at https://try.sugarizer.org. I don't see anything like it at all. I
can't take a screenshot of it because the screen seems to have no
functionality for that at all. In the middle of a white screen I see a
gray icon of a three-ring binder and the phrase: "Your Journal is
empty". In the black top bar or "title bar", I see a small gray
magnifying glass search icon in a white text box that reads "Search in
Journal" on the far left, and then proceeding from left to right, I see
a white star, then a white box icon with its four top flaps open, then
two drop-down menus that read "Anything" (entitled "Select filter") and
"Anytime" (also entitled "Select filter" with date options like "Today"
and "Since yesterday"), respectively, then lastly I see an icon of a
pencil writing on a piece of paper with upward and downward pointing
triangles (another drop-down menu entitled "Sort view").

I get the impression that in my F29/Sugar desktop described above, I'm
looking at the Journal Activity, not the spiral collection of Activity
icons that I see at https://try.sugarizer.org.

In https://try.sugarizer.org, I see the same three-ring binder icon just
below the XO character, and when I click on it at
https://try.sugarizer.org, I'm taken to a screen that is similar to my
desktop in my F29/Sugar desktop ("Search in journal", white star,
"Anything" and "Anytime" drop-down menus, a question mark inside a
circle, and finally a dot inside a circle on the far right; and the same
three-ring binder icon in the center of the screen above the words "Your
journal is empty"). But I can exit this screen and return to the spiral
of Activity icons by clicking the dot-in-circle icon. There is no way I
can find to exit the Journal activity in my F29/Sugar desktop.

When I burned the SoaS iso to a DVD-R and booted into that on this old
MacBook Pro, I had the exact same experience as I described above when
logging into this vanilla F29 OS and selecting the Sugar desktop within
the gnome display manager.

So my question is, how do I make my F29/Sugar desktop (apparently just
the Journal activity) look something like what I see at
https://try.sugarizer.org (which I think is what I'm supposed to be
seeing: the Sugar desktop)?

As it is now, the only thing I can really do in my F29/Sugar desktop is
to kill -9 the only running process that I see owned by my kid's account
when I issue the "[alpha@localhost ~]$ w" command
(/usr/libexec/gdm-x-session --run-script sugar). I do this while logged
into F29 as another user in either a virtual console or in the gnome
desktop environment running a terminal window. Then I can login as my
kid again and go through the same stuck-in-journal-activity loop. How do
I break out of this loop?

I asked about this yesterday in IRC as Nick dr02020, and walterbender
suggested that I try the F29 vanilla installation that I have now done.
Thanks for the suggestion, Walter, but I have the same problems in F29 too.

Thanks for any suggestions on this dilemma. I'm excited to see how m