Re: [IAEP] 70 minute interview with Bryan Berry on XO deployment in Nepal
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 6:38 AM, Bill Kerr billk...@gmail.com wrote: hard to argue against someone who is doing such great work in Nepal but I thought Bryan overplayed the local factors too much: 10) Open Source software critical to high quality education – education has to be very customised, to the kids, the teacher, the environment and the country – not something you can design in New York city and will fit another country http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2009/04/olpc-nepal-project-overview.html The counterbalance to that is that The Enlightenment is what made us, what created modernity, what transformed diverse cultures into our modern culture I hope it doesn't become unfashionable to say that modernity is a good thing see http://learningevolves.wikispaces.com/nonUniversals I think you're misinterpreting Bryan as having said something culturally relativistic. Think more practical. The most practical example for Bryan's point is that if we wouldn't make stuff that is in line with the Nepali curriculum, week by week, subject by subject, it would be very hard to sell here. And would be pretty useless for the teachers. Also the level the teachers and children are at is pretty different. You can't just give the teachers Moodle and expect them to put in their wildest teaching dreams; not in a lot of other countries as well I guess but in our teacher training course we cover things like moving the mouse. We leave in the grade 2 activities for the grade 6 students, because a lot of them don't have a strong grasp of grade 2 material. This requires presenting the material in a different way, depending on the local situation, just as already within one classroom different kids will be better helped by different methods. /Ties ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] logging irc setup
Nice! Thanks! /Ties On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 5:46 PM, David Van Assche dvanass...@gmail.com wrote: well, u can find it here: http://www.nubae.com/logs/sugar There are various curious commands the bot can help with based on google stuff the list is as follows: [control command is @ and not !] example: @google define:sugarlabs # !google [.google.country.code] [define:|spell:|movie:] # # search terms 1+1 1 cm in ft patent ### # weather city|zip ??? airport # # !images [.google.country.code] search terms # # !groups [.google.country.code] search terms # # !news [.google.country.code] search terms # # !local [.google.country.code] what near where # # !book [.google.country.code] search terms # # !video [.google.country.code] search terms# # !scholar [.google.country.code] search terms # # !fight word(s) one vs word(s) two # # !youtube [.google.country.code] search terms # # !trans reg...@region text # # !gamespot search terms# # !gamefaqs system in region # # !blog [.google.country.code] search terms # # !ebay [.ebay.country.code] search terms # # !ebayfight word(s) one vs word(s) two # # !wikipedia [.2-digit-country-code] search terms[#subtag] # # !wikimedia [.www.wikisite.org[/wiki]] search terms[#subtag] # !locate ip or hostmask# # !review gamename [@ system] # # !torrent search terms # # !top system # # !popular system # # !dailymotion search terms # # !ign search terms # # !myspace search terms # # !trends [.google.country.code] -MM-DD # ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] irc logs
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Martin Dengler mar...@martindengler.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 10:33:55AM +0545, Ties Stuij wrote: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 9:40 AM, Luke Faraone l...@faraone.cc wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Ties Stuij cjst...@gmail.com wrote: If I may summerize: after counting all the votes/opinions here and on irc (but how can we check?), it's mostly for and no real against to having #sugar logged. I'm curious as to how you came to this conclusion. Ehhm, ok. You said you disliked logging, without qualifying your dislike. That didn't seem as a very strong against. Well you didn't really ask for a vote; you just said Waddaya say?. People started voting, as they do: Note I haven't counted ambiguous votes, though I think some gave implicit approval[1] and some implicit disapproval[3], but I'm not confortable reading into those. If you want a vote, ask for one explicitly (preferably with a concrete-enough proposal), and then count. I put -1, and Luke seemed to put -1. Martin As for Martin he said, if I may quote: I don't think the audience might understand the volume, verbosity, and context-mining involved in browsing such a log. That didn't seem like a very strong against opinion either. Uselessness seems a good enough against to me :). To quote myself: Well I don't think uselessness is a good argument at all. I see the smiley, but am unsure how to interpret it. Reality is a vast domain. Voting -1 even though you know you can't oversee all possible benefits for everybody involved, thereby denying them those possible benefits just because you can't see them, seems a bit whimsical. This for a public channel that can be tracked by anyone if she/he wishes, so I don't really understand the privacy-concerns. It's the difference between a conversation one might have with someone in a library where I know it's recorded, or don't. I would behave differently, and I like the knowledge that someone has to care enough to see the backlog or save good parts of it: Privacy concerns are valid argument of course. But an open channel is a conversation which probably is recorded. And can quite easily be made accessible by someone who just hasn't thought stuff through. The analogy with real-live conversations doesn't hold that well I think. You can be pretty sure no-one is pointing a microphone in your general direction, transcribes it, and puts it on the web. True, you might behave differently if you know for sure there is public logging, but I at least have in the back of my mind that a public channel always CAN be logged by anybody at all (Not that I care that much. My opinions are my opinions, and they are never that profound.). And as such, I think there's something to say for making it explicit. Also I wonder which topics fall into the category of probably not being discussed when they are logged explicitly but will be discussed when people know they always CAN be logged. Especially in a channel like #sugar, which mostly deals with programming. Also most of your concerns (if I read them correctly) would be addressed by a strategically placed robots.txt file. And the cautious/paranoid will probably err on the side of caution anyway I think. As for voting, let me tally one more time: logging with robot.txt, without something along the lines of password protection: +1 Morgan Collet -1 Luke Faraone +1 Jameson Quinn -1 Martin Dengler +1 ties (if I count) +1 bert +1 bernie (might have plus-onne'ed on a comment though) +1 Sebastian As for the non-formal opinions; they are debatable. They won't hold up in a formal dissection; we might have cross out one or two, but I don't see why we can't take the general wind into consideration. We're discussing a topic here, not formality, and their opinions seemed clear enough, if not otherwise stated. non formal (my interpretation of course): +1 Bernie (if indeed he plus-onned on the comment) +1 David +1 Tomeu +1 Greg (going out on a limb here slightly) -1 Mel so tallying reveals: +10, -3 Again some individual opinions are debatable, but in general to me the outcome seems clear. But do debate my conclusion if you think the general gist of my conclusion is wrong in your view. Sorry if it seems I now oversimplify the discussion, but in my view the numbers above do seem to reflect people's opinions pretty ok, and framing a conclusion like this at this point is the only way I see to ever reaching an actual decision. I myself underestimated reality a bit. I thought logging would be pretty much a non-issue, and I see now that reaching an actual conclusion through a mailing-list over a topic like this is a pretty hard thing to do. Will be interesting to see how this plays out. /Ties ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] irc logs
If I may summerize: after counting all the votes/opinions here and on irc (but how can we check?), it's mostly for and no real against to having #sugar logged. And perhaps the path of least resistance is for David to add an extra line to his irc-logger config file. If so, David, I ask you politely, and as a friend without proper facilities of his own, to accept this great task of firing up your preferred text editor. My thanks will be eternal, or until the LHC will do its destructive damage. /Ties On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 6:54 AM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: David Van Assche wrote: You can always set up your own eggdrop bot with logs2html which creates a webpage and updates every couple minutes... the results look very good: www.nubae.com/logs I could copy the eggdrop logs file and other elements... and then all u have to do is change the channel name/s Err, actually I thought _you_ wanted to do it :-) Sorry, I'm not sufficiently motivated to setup and maintain an IRC logging service myself, but I'm glad to facilitate it with our infrastructure. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] irc logs
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 9:40 AM, Luke Faraone l...@faraone.cc wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Ties Stuij cjst...@gmail.com wrote: If I may summerize: after counting all the votes/opinions here and on irc (but how can we check?), it's mostly for and no real against to having #sugar logged. I'm curious as to how you came to this conclusion. Ehhm, ok. You said you disliked logging, without qualifying your dislike. That didn't seem as a very strong against. As for Martin he said, if I may quote: I don't think the audience might understand the volume, verbosity, and context-mining involved in browsing such a log. That didn't seem like a very strong against opinion either. Not something that warranted further discussion. On irc people mostly offered setting up an irc channel, and seemed to be ok with it. Tomeu said it might be nice so as to indicate Sugar is an open organisation, as a token if you will. There was some talk about the merit of 'private kitchentables' for projects in general, but it seemed like it was poised in the spirit of general debate, not applying to logging the #sugar mailing list in particular. So people do have different opinions on various levels of openness, but no-one seemed to feel that strongly about not logging, and when I tallied up the votes (the hard ones and the ones given in passing), the ayes seemed to outstrip the nays about two-and-a-half to one. Again, I for one do like the openness, indexability by search engines, ability for everybody to read the backlog, and the ability to link to past discussions for reference. This for a public channel that can be tracked by anyone if she/he wishes, so I don't really understand the privacy-concerns. But if you, and others DO feel very strong about it, and consensus can't be reached, then we default to current practices I guess. I don't feel that strong about the whole deal. But let me propose a compromise, which was mentioned before in passing: Logging yes, but not indexable by the major search engines through a robots.txt file. Otherwise I'll ask our friendly bofh. /Ties ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] irc logs
I would really appreciate some logging of the #sugar channel, as my connection to the #sugar irc channel is killed quite often, my timezone doesn't converge very well with a number of you, and it's of course a practical service to have in general. As I understand we don't have backlogs atm because they were frowned upon by certain elements in the OLPC era. But since Sugar has since cut the umbilical cord, and Sugarlabs is now – almost – a transpant, open and happy organisation, in which lambs can dart around in happy ignorance, perhaps it is time to symbolically open the windows by allowing this feature. Waddaya say? /Ties ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Do you blog?
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:43 PM, Bill Kerr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what is the philosophy of planets and Sugar Labs Planet wrt bloggers who blog on diverse issues? eg. someone put me onto the squeak planet a while back - and someone else complained on my blog recently because I posted an entry which was skeptical about global warming You can of course circumvent the problem by tagging your posts and hand out the feed to the category. /Ties ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
