Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[James Cameron]

Thanks, I'll review it.

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 11:09:06PM -0500, Sebastian Silva wrote:
> Hi James,
> 
> I've found a moment to make Moon (JS) work in Sugar again. The version
> in the original repo was only missing a small patch.
> 
> https://github.com/zhirzh/sugarizer-activity-moon/pull/13
> 
> Hope you find it useful,
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Sebastian
> 
> 
> On 12/05/17 19:58, James Cameron wrote:
> > I'm probably going to have to port the Moon activity from GTK+ 2 to
> > GTK+ 3 unless someone can make the JavaScript version work on desktop.
> > ;-)  I did get half way through.
> >
> > Zeeshan Khan also has the task for GsoC, so we might do it together.
> >
> > I'd like to hear from Ignacio, Sam Parkinson and Abhijit what they
> > think of the port of Moon vs the JavaScript port; it may be simpler to
> > port the JavaScript version back to Sugar.
> 
> 

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[Sebastian Silva]

Hi James,

I've found a moment to make Moon (JS) work in Sugar again. The version
in the original repo was only missing a small patch.

https://github.com/zhirzh/sugarizer-activity-moon/pull/13

Hope you find it useful,

Regards,

Sebastian


On 12/05/17 19:58, James Cameron wrote:
> I'm probably going to have to port the Moon activity from GTK+ 2 to
> GTK+ 3 unless someone can make the JavaScript version work on desktop.
> ;-)  I did get half way through.
>
> Zeeshan Khan also has the task for GsoC, so we might do it together.
>
> I'd like to hear from Ignacio, Sam Parkinson and Abhijit what they
> think of the port of Moon vs the JavaScript port; it may be simpler to
> port the JavaScript version back to Sugar.


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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[Samuel Cantero]

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 1:47 AM, James Cameron  wrote:

> On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 09:23:55PM -0400, Samuel Cantero wrote:
> > Samuel Cantero wrote:
> > > we're going to try to build a new ASLO in GSoC which must ease
> > > activities management, for both image builders and developers.
> >
> > Please also consider Sugar Network, which Sebastian knows about, and
> > is used heavily, judging by the hit counts on the Sugar Labs servers.
> >
> > Can someone explain the relationship between ASLO and Sugar network?
>
> Nobody has answered your question, so I'll have a go.
>
> A derivative relationship; data flows from ASLO to Sugar Network.
>
> Any changes you make in ASLO that affect how the data is presented may
> have impact on Sugar Network.
>
> Also, don't forget that OLPC laptops and Sugar itself fetches data
> from ASLO, using the Software Update feature.  Look through the source
> for that; in the /sugar/ and /browse-activity/ repositories.
>

AFAIK not all deployments are using ASLO as main backend for Software
Update. In fact, an static "update URL" with activity information in
semantic microformat seems more reliable. In my case, I will never allow
and trust in last version sent by a developer in ASLO. Updating ~13K XOs
w/o testing the activities first doesn't look reasonable for me. So testing
in your own environment and updating the activity information in the the
activity page (*microformat*) is the way I'll go.

So, at first stage, I propose to add only *microformat* support for ASLOv3.
A person (image builder..) who is building an image must be able to select
a set of activity/version pair and generate the 'update URL' in semantic
microformat. This person must be able to update the content at any time
keeping the same "update URL". This will allow us to use Sugar Software
Update functionality.
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[James Cameron]

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 01:15:06AM -0500, Sebastian Silva wrote:
> 
> On 17/05/17 00:47, James Cameron wrote:
> 
> Can someone explain the relationship between ASLO and Sugar network?
> 
> Nobody has answered your question, so I'll have a go.
> 
> A derivative relationship; data flows from ASLO to Sugar Network.
> 
> Any changes you make in ASLO that affect how the data is presented may
> have impact on Sugar Network.
> 
> Sorry, I thought I had answered when I said:
> 
> " At one time there was a ASLO->Sugar Network synchronization script. "
> 
> That is precisely the extent of the current relationship between
> ASLO and Sugar Network, nothing more.
> There is no communication or dependency between them.

Ah, that's good to know, thanks.

In that case I withdraw my concern that changes to ASLO may impact
Sugar Network.

> > Developing a new ASLO has been tried before, by Sam Parkinson, and it
> > did not get enough traction, and was shut down; we've only just
> > finished removed the changes from Sugar.  It was also a git based
> > backend.  After that experience, I really don't think we need another
> > ASLO.
> 
> There is no reason we should not try again.
> 
> > Activity release is not a complicated process; we lack maintainers,
> > not tools.
> 
> I disagree. Tooling is very important. We should not abandon the vision of
> learners producing activities and sharing them. That is what Sugar Labs is
> about, after all.
> 
> I'd choose the datastore/framework with care, to try to accommodate nano
> servers as well as large servers, and also that it is well supported.
> 
> But, keep it simple and maintainable.
> 
> Sebastian

-- 
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[Sebastian Silva]

On 17/05/17 00:47, James Cameron wrote:
>> Can someone explain the relationship between ASLO and Sugar network?
> Nobody has answered your question, so I'll have a go.
>
> A derivative relationship; data flows from ASLO to Sugar Network.
>
> Any changes you make in ASLO that affect how the data is presented may
> have impact on Sugar Network.
Sorry, I thought I had answered when I said:

/" At one time there was a ASLO->Sugar Network synchronization script. "

/That is precisely the extent of the current relationship between ASLO
and Sugar Network, nothing more.
There is no communication or dependency between them.

> Developing a new ASLO has been tried before, by Sam Parkinson, and it
> did not get enough traction, and was shut down; we've only just
> finished removed the changes from Sugar.  It was also a git based
> backend.  After that experience, I really don't think we need another
> ASLO.

There is no reason we should not try again.

> Activity release is not a complicated process; we lack maintainers,
> not tools.

I disagree. Tooling is very important. We should not abandon the vision
of learners producing activities and sharing them. That is what Sugar
Labs is about, after all.

I'd choose the datastore/framework with care, to try to accommodate nano
servers as well as large servers, and also that it is well supported.

But, keep it simple and maintainable.

Sebastian




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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[James Cameron]

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 09:23:55PM -0400, Samuel Cantero wrote:
> Samuel Cantero wrote:
> > we're going to try to build a new ASLO in GSoC which must ease
> > activities management, for both image builders and developers.
> 
> Please also consider Sugar Network, which Sebastian knows about, and
> is used heavily, judging by the hit counts on the Sugar Labs servers.
> 
> Can someone explain the relationship between ASLO and Sugar network?

Nobody has answered your question, so I'll have a go.

A derivative relationship; data flows from ASLO to Sugar Network.

Any changes you make in ASLO that affect how the data is presented may
have impact on Sugar Network.

Also, don't forget that OLPC laptops and Sugar itself fetches data
from ASLO, using the Software Update feature.  Look through the source
for that; in the /sugar/ and /browse-activity/ repositories.

You should also look at access logs on the server to make sure you
understand what is happening.  Let me know what you find.

> Pitifully we can't work in ASLO and Sugar network at the same time,
> but we can take into account what is needed for interaction with
> Sugar network. At least in design in the first stage.

I've not seen any design yet.  Looking forward to it.

ASLO works well at the moment now that the critical bugs are fixed;
could you please estimate if the effort required to fix the remaining
bugs?

https://github.com/sugarlabs/aslo/issues

The final accepted proposal is still paywalled; so anything Jatin has
said is opaque and non-transparent.  Is Jatin subscribed here yet?
Can the proposal be posted or is there some reason for secrecy?

https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2017

There was a copy posted on 2nd April on sugar-devel@ ... but I don't
know if that version is current ... which mentions developing a new
ASLO ...

Developing a new ASLO has been tried before, by Sam Parkinson, and it
did not get enough traction, and was shut down; we've only just
finished removed the changes from Sugar.  It was also a git based
backend.  After that experience, I really don't think we need another
ASLO.

Please, maintain the existing ASLO first, as a priority.

I see no reason to host ASLO on GitHub or bind it too closely to that
social network.

Activity release is not a complicated process; we lack maintainers,
not tools.

ASLO is a fairly straightforward web application; and the languages
used are on the knowledge prerequisites for the GSoC task, and easy to
pick up.

-- 
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[Samuel Cantero]

>
> Samuel Cantero wrote:
> > we're going to try to build a new ASLO in GSoC which must ease
> > activities management, for both image builders and developers.
>
> Please also consider Sugar Network, which Sebastian knows about, and
> is used heavily, judging by the hit counts on the Sugar Labs servers.
>

Can someone explain the relationship between ASLO and Sugar network?
Pitifully we can't work in ASLO and Sugar network at the same time, but we
can take into account what is needed for interaction with Sugar network. At
least in design in the first stage.

>
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
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>
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[Chihurumnaya Ibiam]

I'm using 13.2.7 . I would use the workaround. Thanks.

*Ibiam Chihurumnaya*

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 9:58 PM, James Cameron  wrote:

> Thanks.  Are you using 13.2.8?
>
> The Fedora repositories for Fedora 18 moved, and this was fixed in
> 13.2.8, see here;
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_notes/13.2.7#Fedora_Repositories_Missing
>
> If you are using 13.2.7 or earlier, please use the workaround on that
> page.
>
> I've just tested "sudo yum install vlc" on XO-1.5 with 13.2.8 and no
> problem seen, just "No package vlc available.", so I'm not sure how
> your system is configured; if the above workaround does not fix,
> please show me your changed yum.repos.d files.
>
> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 08:48:54PM +0100, Chihurumnaya Ibiam wrote:
> > Hey James, since you're still maintaining fedora18, "sudo yum vlc" - any
> > activity- returns this error "Error cannot retrieve metalink for
> repository
> > fedora18/i386" , editing the *fedora.repo files in /etc/yum.repos.d/ and
> > changing
> > all "https" to "http" solves the problem.
> >
> > Ibiam Chihurumnaya
> >
> > On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 1:58 AM, James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Composite reply to several posts, in context, see below;
> >
> > Samson wrote:
> > > I think we should really join the trend so that we can get more
> > > people using Sugar for Learning.  So what are your thought on this
> > > development?
> >
> > I don't think it will work, as we don't have developers interested in
> > it.  If you're interested in it and are happy to commit fully without
> > relying on others, go for it.  But don't expect other resources to
> get
> > involved; as the argument from numbers is not compelling enough.
> >
> > There are more learning tools available for Windows.
> >
> > But the numbers are not the only reason why our customers choose
> > Linux.
> >
> > Sebastian wrote:
> > > Sugar barely runs [...]
> >
> > Yes, you're right.
> >
> > > committed releasing Sugar every six months [...] we have no release
> > > schedule.
> >
> > Yes, you're right.
> >
> > A new release of Sugar with the bug fixes since 0.110 would help
> solve
> > the "barely runs" problem.
> >
> > (also a release of the critical activities, not just the core;
> > newcomers to our community should note the term Sucrose has been in
> > our Taxonomy for many years, see the Wiki if you don't know what it
> > means.)
> >
> > [2]https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy
> > [3]https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Glossary
> >
> > > I don't see Sugar Labs organization as capable of strategically
> > > funding Sugar development in any direction. Of course, volunteers
> > > can work in whatever they like, if it fits their principles.
> >
> > I agree, and that's the basis of my engagement; subject to also
> > stabilising Sugar for OLPC OS on Fedora 18 and Ubuntu 16.04 for
> > delivery to OLPC customers; as a custom system with all obvious (to
> > me) bugs fixed.
> >
> > Sugar Labs is heavily benefiting from my work for OLPC, and OLPC is
> > benefiting from other volunteers at Sugar Labs.
> >
> > Dave wrote:
> > > codebase could be returned to OLPC
> >
> > No thanks.  Where would the Sugar Labs volunteers go who are focused
> > on this codebase?
> >
> > OLPC already maintains a fork with the fixes, and the changes that
> > Sugar Labs has not accepted.  All fixes have been pushed back to
> Sugar
> > Labs, but there has been no release, hence the exceedingly low
> quality
> > of the Fedora, Debian and Ubuntu experience at the moment.
> >
> > OLPC fork version numbers are like 0.110.0.olpc.12
> >
> > > Sugar Labs could focus on the JS Sugarizer codebase.
> >
> > Sugarizer isn't integrated into Sugar Labs; the repositories are
> > split, cooperation is minimal, and the code for activities isn't
> > portable to execution environments other than Sugarizer; such as
> > sugar-web-activity.
> >
> > So I'm certainly not inclined to support any activity development on
> > Sugarizer; because that development won't pay back for OLPC.
> >
> > I'm probably going to have to port the Moon activity from GTK+ 2 to
> > GTK+ 3 unless someone can make the JavaScript version work on
> desktop.
> > ;-)  I did get half way through.
> >
> > Zeeshan Khan also has the task for GsoC, so we might do it together.
> >
> > I'd like to hear from Ignacio, Sam Parkinson and Abhijit what they
> > think of the port of Moon vs the JavaScript port; it may be simpler
> to
> > port the JavaScript version back to Sugar.
> >
> > Samuel Cantero wrote:
> > > We should work to find out a new release manager [...]
> >
> > Ignacio is the release manager at the moment, but my guess is that
> > he'd welcome someone else taking the job.  Hopefully he'll speak up.
> >
> > Dave wrote:
> > > 

Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[James Cameron]

Yes, that's why I asked.  Installing VLC doesn't work out of the box
with 13.2.8, and there are different ways it could be done.  I don't
know what Ibiam did.  I need to know before I can reproduce.

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 10:33:27PM +0100, Samson Goddy wrote:
> $> su -
> #> yum localinstall --nogpgcheck 
> https://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm -E 
> %fedora).noarch.rpm
> #> yum install vlc
> #> yum install python-vlc npapi-vlc (optionals)
> 
> Can help, yum install vlc will not work until you use this. At least that how 
> i
> got it working.
> 
> Samson
> On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 9:58 PM, James Cameron <[2]qu...@laptop.org> wrote:
> 
> Thanks.  Are you using 13.2.8?
> 
> The Fedora repositories for Fedora 18 moved, and this was fixed in
> 13.2.8, see here;
> 
> [3]http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_notes/13.2.7#Fedora_
> Repositories_Missing
> 
> If you are using 13.2.7 or earlier, please use the workaround on that
> page.
> 
> I've just tested "sudo yum install vlc" on XO-1.5 with 13.2.8 and no
> problem seen, just "No package vlc available.", so I'm not sure how
> your system is configured; if the above workaround does not fix,
> please show me your changed yum.repos.d files.
>
> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 08:48:54PM +0100, Chihurumnaya Ibiam wrote:
> > Hey James, since you're still maintaining fedora18, "sudo yum vlc" - any
> > activity- returns this error "Error cannot retrieve metalink for
> repository
> > fedora18/i386" , editing the *fedora.repo files in /etc/yum.repos.d/ and
> > changing
> > all "https" to "http" solves the problem.
> >
> > Ibiam Chihurumnaya
> >
> > On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 1:58 AM, James Cameron <[1][4]qu...@laptop.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >     Composite reply to several posts, in context, see below;
> >
> >     Samson wrote:
> >     > I think we should really join the trend so that we can get more
> >     > people using Sugar for Learning.  So what are your thought on this
> >     > development?
> >
> >     I don't think it will work, as we don't have developers interested 
> in
> >     it.  If you're interested in it and are happy to commit fully 
> without
> >     relying on others, go for it.  But don't expect other resources to
> get
> >     involved; as the argument from numbers is not compelling enough.
> >
> >     There are more learning tools available for Windows.
> >
> >     But the numbers are not the only reason why our customers choose
> >     Linux.
> >
> >     Sebastian wrote:
> >     > Sugar barely runs [...]
> >
> >     Yes, you're right.
> >
> >     > committed releasing Sugar every six months [...] we have no 
> release
> >     > schedule.
> >
> >     Yes, you're right.
> >
> >     A new release of Sugar with the bug fixes since 0.110 would help
> solve
> >     the "barely runs" problem.
> >
> >     (also a release of the critical activities, not just the core;
> >     newcomers to our community should note the term Sucrose has been in
> >     our Taxonomy for many years, see the Wiki if you don't know what it
> >     means.)
> >
> >     [2][5]https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy
> >     [3][6]https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Glossary
> >
> >     > I don't see Sugar Labs organization as capable of strategically
> >     > funding Sugar development in any direction. Of course, volunteers
> >     > can work in whatever they like, if it fits their principles.
> >
> >     I agree, and that's the basis of my engagement; subject to also
> >     stabilising Sugar for OLPC OS on Fedora 18 and Ubuntu 16.04 for
> >     delivery to OLPC customers; as a custom system with all obvious (to
> >     me) bugs fixed.
> >
> >     Sugar Labs is heavily benefiting from my work for OLPC, and OLPC is
> >     benefiting from other volunteers at Sugar Labs.
> >
> >     Dave wrote:
> >     > codebase could be returned to OLPC
> >
> >     No thanks.  Where would the Sugar Labs volunteers go who are focused
> >     on this codebase?
> >
> >     OLPC already maintains a fork with the fixes, and the changes that
> >     Sugar Labs has not accepted.  All fixes have been pushed back to
> Sugar
> >     Labs, but there has been no release, hence the exceedingly low
> quality
> >     of the Fedora, Debian and Ubuntu experience at the moment.
> >
> >     OLPC fork version numbers are like 0.110.0.olpc.12
> >
> >     > Sugar Labs could focus on the JS Sugarizer codebase.
> >
> >     Sugarizer isn't integrated into Sugar Labs; the repositories are
> >     split, cooperation is minimal, and the code for activities isn't
> >     portable to execution environments other than Sugariz

Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[Samson Goddy]

$> su -
#> yum localinstall --nogpgcheck
https://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm
-E %fedora).noarch.rpm
#> yum install vlc
#> yum install python-vlc npapi-vlc (optionals)

Can help, yum install vlc will not work until you use this. At least that
how i got it working.

Samson
On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 9:58 PM, James Cameron  wrote:

> Thanks.  Are you using 13.2.8?
>
> The Fedora repositories for Fedora 18 moved, and this was fixed in
> 13.2.8, see here;
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_notes/13.2.7#Fedora_Repositories_Missing
>
> If you are using 13.2.7 or earlier, please use the workaround on that
> page.
>
> I've just tested "sudo yum install vlc" on XO-1.5 with 13.2.8 and no
> problem seen, just "No package vlc available.", so I'm not sure how
> your system is configured; if the above workaround does not fix,
> please show me your changed yum.repos.d files.
>
> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 08:48:54PM +0100, Chihurumnaya Ibiam wrote:
> > Hey James, since you're still maintaining fedora18, "sudo yum vlc" - any
> > activity- returns this error "Error cannot retrieve metalink for
> repository
> > fedora18/i386" , editing the *fedora.repo files in /etc/yum.repos.d/ and
> > changing
> > all "https" to "http" solves the problem.
> >
> > Ibiam Chihurumnaya
> >
> > On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 1:58 AM, James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Composite reply to several posts, in context, see below;
> >
> > Samson wrote:
> > > I think we should really join the trend so that we can get more
> > > people using Sugar for Learning.  So what are your thought on this
> > > development?
> >
> > I don't think it will work, as we don't have developers interested in
> > it.  If you're interested in it and are happy to commit fully without
> > relying on others, go for it.  But don't expect other resources to
> get
> > involved; as the argument from numbers is not compelling enough.
> >
> > There are more learning tools available for Windows.
> >
> > But the numbers are not the only reason why our customers choose
> > Linux.
> >
> > Sebastian wrote:
> > > Sugar barely runs [...]
> >
> > Yes, you're right.
> >
> > > committed releasing Sugar every six months [...] we have no release
> > > schedule.
> >
> > Yes, you're right.
> >
> > A new release of Sugar with the bug fixes since 0.110 would help
> solve
> > the "barely runs" problem.
> >
> > (also a release of the critical activities, not just the core;
> > newcomers to our community should note the term Sucrose has been in
> > our Taxonomy for many years, see the Wiki if you don't know what it
> > means.)
> >
> > [2]https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy
> > [3]https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Glossary
> >
> > > I don't see Sugar Labs organization as capable of strategically
> > > funding Sugar development in any direction. Of course, volunteers
> > > can work in whatever they like, if it fits their principles.
> >
> > I agree, and that's the basis of my engagement; subject to also
> > stabilising Sugar for OLPC OS on Fedora 18 and Ubuntu 16.04 for
> > delivery to OLPC customers; as a custom system with all obvious (to
> > me) bugs fixed.
> >
> > Sugar Labs is heavily benefiting from my work for OLPC, and OLPC is
> > benefiting from other volunteers at Sugar Labs.
> >
> > Dave wrote:
> > > codebase could be returned to OLPC
> >
> > No thanks.  Where would the Sugar Labs volunteers go who are focused
> > on this codebase?
> >
> > OLPC already maintains a fork with the fixes, and the changes that
> > Sugar Labs has not accepted.  All fixes have been pushed back to
> Sugar
> > Labs, but there has been no release, hence the exceedingly low
> quality
> > of the Fedora, Debian and Ubuntu experience at the moment.
> >
> > OLPC fork version numbers are like 0.110.0.olpc.12
> >
> > > Sugar Labs could focus on the JS Sugarizer codebase.
> >
> > Sugarizer isn't integrated into Sugar Labs; the repositories are
> > split, cooperation is minimal, and the code for activities isn't
> > portable to execution environments other than Sugarizer; such as
> > sugar-web-activity.
> >
> > So I'm certainly not inclined to support any activity development on
> > Sugarizer; because that development won't pay back for OLPC.
> >
> > I'm probably going to have to port the Moon activity from GTK+ 2 to
> > GTK+ 3 unless someone can make the JavaScript version work on
> desktop.
> > ;-)  I did get half way through.
> >
> > Zeeshan Khan also has the task for GsoC, so we might do it together.
> >
> > I'd like to hear from Ignacio, Sam Parkinson and Abhijit what they
> > think of the port of Moon vs the JavaScript port; it may be simpler
> to
> > port the JavaScript version back to Sugar.
> >
> > Samuel Cantero wrote:
> > > We

Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[James Cameron]

Thanks.  Are you using 13.2.8?

The Fedora repositories for Fedora 18 moved, and this was fixed in
13.2.8, see here;

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_notes/13.2.7#Fedora_Repositories_Missing

If you are using 13.2.7 or earlier, please use the workaround on that
page.

I've just tested "sudo yum install vlc" on XO-1.5 with 13.2.8 and no
problem seen, just "No package vlc available.", so I'm not sure how
your system is configured; if the above workaround does not fix,
please show me your changed yum.repos.d files.

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 08:48:54PM +0100, Chihurumnaya Ibiam wrote:
> Hey James, since you're still maintaining fedora18, "sudo yum vlc" - any
> activity- returns this error "Error cannot retrieve metalink for repository
> fedora18/i386" , editing the *fedora.repo files in /etc/yum.repos.d/ and
> changing
> all "https" to "http" solves the problem.
> 
> Ibiam Chihurumnaya
> 
> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 1:58 AM, James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org> wrote:
> 
> Composite reply to several posts, in context, see below;
>
> Samson wrote:
> > I think we should really join the trend so that we can get more
> > people using Sugar for Learning.  So what are your thought on this
> > development?
> 
> I don't think it will work, as we don't have developers interested in
> it.  If you're interested in it and are happy to commit fully without
> relying on others, go for it.  But don't expect other resources to get
> involved; as the argument from numbers is not compelling enough.
> 
> There are more learning tools available for Windows.
> 
> But the numbers are not the only reason why our customers choose
> Linux.
> 
> Sebastian wrote:
> > Sugar barely runs [...]
> 
> Yes, you're right.
> 
> > committed releasing Sugar every six months [...] we have no release
> > schedule.
> 
> Yes, you're right.
> 
> A new release of Sugar with the bug fixes since 0.110 would help solve
> the "barely runs" problem.
> 
> (also a release of the critical activities, not just the core;
> newcomers to our community should note the term Sucrose has been in
> our Taxonomy for many years, see the Wiki if you don't know what it
> means.)
> 
> [2]https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy
> [3]https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Glossary
>
> > I don't see Sugar Labs organization as capable of strategically
> > funding Sugar development in any direction. Of course, volunteers
> > can work in whatever they like, if it fits their principles.
> 
> I agree, and that's the basis of my engagement; subject to also
> stabilising Sugar for OLPC OS on Fedora 18 and Ubuntu 16.04 for
> delivery to OLPC customers; as a custom system with all obvious (to
> me) bugs fixed.
> 
> Sugar Labs is heavily benefiting from my work for OLPC, and OLPC is
> benefiting from other volunteers at Sugar Labs.
> 
> Dave wrote:
> > codebase could be returned to OLPC
> 
> No thanks.  Where would the Sugar Labs volunteers go who are focused
> on this codebase?
> 
> OLPC already maintains a fork with the fixes, and the changes that
> Sugar Labs has not accepted.  All fixes have been pushed back to Sugar
> Labs, but there has been no release, hence the exceedingly low quality
> of the Fedora, Debian and Ubuntu experience at the moment.
> 
> OLPC fork version numbers are like 0.110.0.olpc.12
>
> > Sugar Labs could focus on the JS Sugarizer codebase.
> 
> Sugarizer isn't integrated into Sugar Labs; the repositories are
> split, cooperation is minimal, and the code for activities isn't
> portable to execution environments other than Sugarizer; such as
> sugar-web-activity.
> 
> So I'm certainly not inclined to support any activity development on
> Sugarizer; because that development won't pay back for OLPC.
> 
> I'm probably going to have to port the Moon activity from GTK+ 2 to
> GTK+ 3 unless someone can make the JavaScript version work on desktop.
> ;-)  I did get half way through.
> 
> Zeeshan Khan also has the task for GsoC, so we might do it together.
> 
> I'd like to hear from Ignacio, Sam Parkinson and Abhijit what they
> think of the port of Moon vs the JavaScript port; it may be simpler to
> port the JavaScript version back to Sugar.
> 
> Samuel Cantero wrote:
> > We should work to find out a new release manager [...]
> 
> Ignacio is the release manager at the moment, but my guess is that
> he'd welcome someone else taking the job.  Hopefully he'll speak up.
>
> Dave wrote:
> > Do those xo run the latest release?
> 
> For mass deployment in Paraguay, they can run Sugar 0.110 plus all bug
> fixes from OLPC by using our 13.2.8 as-is or by using it as basis of
> custom build.
> 
> For individuals in Paraguay, they might run "yum update" to get Sugar
> 0.110 plus fixes, unless there's some pro

Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[Chihurumnaya Ibiam]

Hey James, since you're still maintaining fedora18, "sudo yum vlc" - any
activity- returns this error "Error cannot retrieve metalink for repository
fedora18/i386" , editing the *fedora.repo files in /etc/yum.repos.d/ and
changing
all "https" to "http" solves the problem.

*Ibiam Chihurumnaya*

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 1:58 AM, James Cameron  wrote:

> Composite reply to several posts, in context, see below;
>
> Samson wrote:
> > I think we should really join the trend so that we can get more
> > people using Sugar for Learning.  So what are your thought on this
> > development?
>
> I don't think it will work, as we don't have developers interested in
> it.  If you're interested in it and are happy to commit fully without
> relying on others, go for it.  But don't expect other resources to get
> involved; as the argument from numbers is not compelling enough.
>
> There are more learning tools available for Windows.
>
> But the numbers are not the only reason why our customers choose
> Linux.
>
> Sebastian wrote:
> > Sugar barely runs [...]
>
> Yes, you're right.
>
> > committed releasing Sugar every six months [...] we have no release
> > schedule.
>
> Yes, you're right.
>
> A new release of Sugar with the bug fixes since 0.110 would help solve
> the "barely runs" problem.
>
> (also a release of the critical activities, not just the core;
> newcomers to our community should note the term Sucrose has been in
> our Taxonomy for many years, see the Wiki if you don't know what it
> means.)
>
> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy
> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Glossary
>
> > I don't see Sugar Labs organization as capable of strategically
> > funding Sugar development in any direction. Of course, volunteers
> > can work in whatever they like, if it fits their principles.
>
> I agree, and that's the basis of my engagement; subject to also
> stabilising Sugar for OLPC OS on Fedora 18 and Ubuntu 16.04 for
> delivery to OLPC customers; as a custom system with all obvious (to
> me) bugs fixed.
>
> Sugar Labs is heavily benefiting from my work for OLPC, and OLPC is
> benefiting from other volunteers at Sugar Labs.
>
> Dave wrote:
> > codebase could be returned to OLPC
>
> No thanks.  Where would the Sugar Labs volunteers go who are focused
> on this codebase?
>
> OLPC already maintains a fork with the fixes, and the changes that
> Sugar Labs has not accepted.  All fixes have been pushed back to Sugar
> Labs, but there has been no release, hence the exceedingly low quality
> of the Fedora, Debian and Ubuntu experience at the moment.
>
> OLPC fork version numbers are like 0.110.0.olpc.12
>
> > Sugar Labs could focus on the JS Sugarizer codebase.
>
> Sugarizer isn't integrated into Sugar Labs; the repositories are
> split, cooperation is minimal, and the code for activities isn't
> portable to execution environments other than Sugarizer; such as
> sugar-web-activity.
>
> So I'm certainly not inclined to support any activity development on
> Sugarizer; because that development won't pay back for OLPC.
>
> I'm probably going to have to port the Moon activity from GTK+ 2 to
> GTK+ 3 unless someone can make the JavaScript version work on desktop.
> ;-)  I did get half way through.
>
> Zeeshan Khan also has the task for GsoC, so we might do it together.
>
> I'd like to hear from Ignacio, Sam Parkinson and Abhijit what they
> think of the port of Moon vs the JavaScript port; it may be simpler to
> port the JavaScript version back to Sugar.
>
> Samuel Cantero wrote:
> > We should work to find out a new release manager [...]
>
> Ignacio is the release manager at the moment, but my guess is that
> he'd welcome someone else taking the job.  Hopefully he'll speak up.
>
> Dave wrote:
> > Do those xo run the latest release?
>
> For mass deployment in Paraguay, they can run Sugar 0.110 plus all bug
> fixes from OLPC by using our 13.2.8 as-is or by using it as basis of
> custom build.
>
> For individuals in Paraguay, they might run "yum update" to get Sugar
> 0.110 plus fixes, unless there's some problem with clock, proxy, or
> yum.repos.d induced by environment of my bugs.
>
> Samuel Cantero wrote:
> > we're going to try to build a new ASLO in GSoC which must ease
> > activities management, for both image builders and developers.
>
> Please also consider Sugar Network, which Sebastian knows about, and
> is used heavily, judging by the hit counts on the Sugar Labs servers.
> Laura recently asked asking Sugar Labs for assistance with Sugar
> Network and bringing a new deployment onto it may be helpful.
>
> German wrote:
> > At Dominican Republic, ~750 XO are running latest version of Sugar.
>
> Good to get such positive feedback!  ;-)
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
___
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[James Cameron]

Composite reply to several posts, in context, see below;

Samson wrote:
> I think we should really join the trend so that we can get more
> people using Sugar for Learning.  So what are your thought on this
> development?

I don't think it will work, as we don't have developers interested in
it.  If you're interested in it and are happy to commit fully without
relying on others, go for it.  But don't expect other resources to get
involved; as the argument from numbers is not compelling enough.

There are more learning tools available for Windows.

But the numbers are not the only reason why our customers choose
Linux.

Sebastian wrote:
> Sugar barely runs [...]

Yes, you're right.

> committed releasing Sugar every six months [...] we have no release
> schedule.

Yes, you're right.

A new release of Sugar with the bug fixes since 0.110 would help solve
the "barely runs" problem.

(also a release of the critical activities, not just the core;
newcomers to our community should note the term Sucrose has been in
our Taxonomy for many years, see the Wiki if you don't know what it
means.)

https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Glossary

> I don't see Sugar Labs organization as capable of strategically
> funding Sugar development in any direction. Of course, volunteers
> can work in whatever they like, if it fits their principles.

I agree, and that's the basis of my engagement; subject to also
stabilising Sugar for OLPC OS on Fedora 18 and Ubuntu 16.04 for
delivery to OLPC customers; as a custom system with all obvious (to
me) bugs fixed.

Sugar Labs is heavily benefiting from my work for OLPC, and OLPC is
benefiting from other volunteers at Sugar Labs.

Dave wrote:
> codebase could be returned to OLPC

No thanks.  Where would the Sugar Labs volunteers go who are focused
on this codebase?

OLPC already maintains a fork with the fixes, and the changes that
Sugar Labs has not accepted.  All fixes have been pushed back to Sugar
Labs, but there has been no release, hence the exceedingly low quality
of the Fedora, Debian and Ubuntu experience at the moment.

OLPC fork version numbers are like 0.110.0.olpc.12

> Sugar Labs could focus on the JS Sugarizer codebase.

Sugarizer isn't integrated into Sugar Labs; the repositories are
split, cooperation is minimal, and the code for activities isn't
portable to execution environments other than Sugarizer; such as
sugar-web-activity.

So I'm certainly not inclined to support any activity development on
Sugarizer; because that development won't pay back for OLPC.

I'm probably going to have to port the Moon activity from GTK+ 2 to
GTK+ 3 unless someone can make the JavaScript version work on desktop.
;-)  I did get half way through.

Zeeshan Khan also has the task for GsoC, so we might do it together.

I'd like to hear from Ignacio, Sam Parkinson and Abhijit what they
think of the port of Moon vs the JavaScript port; it may be simpler to
port the JavaScript version back to Sugar.

Samuel Cantero wrote:
> We should work to find out a new release manager [...]

Ignacio is the release manager at the moment, but my guess is that
he'd welcome someone else taking the job.  Hopefully he'll speak up.

Dave wrote:
> Do those xo run the latest release?

For mass deployment in Paraguay, they can run Sugar 0.110 plus all bug
fixes from OLPC by using our 13.2.8 as-is or by using it as basis of
custom build.

For individuals in Paraguay, they might run "yum update" to get Sugar
0.110 plus fixes, unless there's some problem with clock, proxy, or
yum.repos.d induced by environment of my bugs.

Samuel Cantero wrote:
> we're going to try to build a new ASLO in GSoC which must ease
> activities management, for both image builders and developers.

Please also consider Sugar Network, which Sebastian knows about, and
is used heavily, judging by the hit counts on the Sugar Labs servers.
Laura recently asked asking Sugar Labs for assistance with Sugar
Network and bringing a new deployment onto it may be helpful.

German wrote:
> At Dominican Republic, ~750 XO are running latest version of Sugar.

Good to get such positive feedback!  ;-)

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
___
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[German]

At Dominican Republic, ~750 XO are running latest version of Sugar.

On May 12, 2017 1:25 PM, "Dave Crossland"  wrote:

Do those xo run the latest release?

On May 12, 2017 1:01 PM, "Samuel Cantero"  wrote:

> I'm not agree. In Paraguay, kids are still using a lot the python codebase
> and I guess we're not the only one. We should work to find out a new
> release manager if Sam P can't make it anymore.
>
> Certainly there are many things to improve, but we shall overcome. I don't
> think solution is to discard all XOs schools have around here.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sam C.
>
> On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
>> It seems to me that the classic Sugar python codebase could be returned
>> to Quozl / OLPC, and Sugar Labs could focus on the JS Sugarizer codebase.
>>
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>>
>
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[Dave Crossland]

Cool :)

I'm excited about the GSOC projects!! :)

On 12 May 2017 at 13:42, Samuel Cantero  wrote:

> No yet. But I know they are working to upgrade it ASAP. Hopefully they
> will end that soon.
>
> Aside from that, we're going to try to build a new ASLO in GSoC which must
> ease activities management, for both image builders and developers. I will
> be helping on that.
>
> On May 12, 2017 1:25 PM, "Dave Crossland"  wrote:
>
>> Do those xo run the latest release?
>>
>> On May 12, 2017 1:01 PM, "Samuel Cantero"  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not agree. In Paraguay, kids are still using a lot the python
>>> codebase and I guess we're not the only one. We should work to find out a
>>> new release manager if Sam P can't make it anymore.
>>>
>>> Certainly there are many things to improve, but we shall overcome. I
>>> don't think solution is to discard all XOs schools have around here.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Sam C.
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>>
 It seems to me that the classic Sugar python codebase could be returned
 to Quozl / OLPC, and Sugar Labs could focus on the JS Sugarizer codebase.

 ___
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 sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel


>>>


-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[Samuel Cantero]

No yet. But I know they are working to upgrade it ASAP. Hopefully they will
end that soon.

Aside from that, we're going to try to build a new ASLO in GSoC which must
ease activities management, for both image builders and developers. I will
be helping on that.

On May 12, 2017 1:25 PM, "Dave Crossland"  wrote:

> Do those xo run the latest release?
>
> On May 12, 2017 1:01 PM, "Samuel Cantero"  wrote:
>
>> I'm not agree. In Paraguay, kids are still using a lot the python
>> codebase and I guess we're not the only one. We should work to find out a
>> new release manager if Sam P can't make it anymore.
>>
>> Certainly there are many things to improve, but we shall overcome. I
>> don't think solution is to discard all XOs schools have around here.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Sam C.
>>
>> On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>>> It seems to me that the classic Sugar python codebase could be returned
>>> to Quozl / OLPC, and Sugar Labs could focus on the JS Sugarizer codebase.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>>> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[Dave Crossland]

Do those xo run the latest release?

On May 12, 2017 1:01 PM, "Samuel Cantero"  wrote:

> I'm not agree. In Paraguay, kids are still using a lot the python codebase
> and I guess we're not the only one. We should work to find out a new
> release manager if Sam P can't make it anymore.
>
> Certainly there are many things to improve, but we shall overcome. I don't
> think solution is to discard all XOs schools have around here.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sam C.
>
> On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
>> It seems to me that the classic Sugar python codebase could be returned
>> to Quozl / OLPC, and Sugar Labs could focus on the JS Sugarizer codebase.
>>
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>>
>
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[Samuel Cantero]

I'm not agree. In Paraguay, kids are still using a lot the python codebase
and I guess we're not the only one. We should work to find out a new
release manager if Sam P can't make it anymore.

Certainly there are many things to improve, but we shall overcome. I don't
think solution is to discard all XOs schools have around here.

Regards,

Sam C.

On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> It seems to me that the classic Sugar python codebase could be returned to
> Quozl / OLPC, and Sugar Labs could focus on the JS Sugarizer codebase.
>
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[Dave Crossland]

It seems to me that the classic Sugar python codebase could be returned to
Quozl / OLPC, and Sugar Labs could focus on the JS Sugarizer codebase.
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] (Goals and Mission) with Microsoft in it?

[Sebastian Silva]

Hi Samson,

Sugar barely runs on modern GNU/Linux, as it is stuck depending on old,
unsupported libraries (e.g. Collaboration is broken, TamTam doesn't
run). Important bugs go unnoticed (Browse 200 didn't launch for months
with a trivial unreported bug).

Sugar Labs is committed to releasing Sugar every six months
.
The wiki home page says Sam Parkinson is our release manager, but the
page was last updated in July 2016, and I don't think this is the case
anymore (but it's not known). We have no release schedule
. and a question about it
recently went without answer.

I don't see Sugar Labs organization as capable of strategically funding
Sugar development in any direction. Of course, volunteers can work in
whatever they like, if it fits their principles.

Regards,

Sebastian



On 12/05/17 08:35, Samson Goddy wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I  was surfing the internet, and i saw some interesting articles
> concerning Microsoft partnership with some linux distros like Fedora,
> Ubuntu and Suse. The whole deal is to make Fedora, Ubuntu and Suse
> available in the windows store. Meaning you can now run Ubuntu, Fedora
> and Suse like an application without worrying to get a virtual box. 
>
>  I also think that Sugar Labs can also use this as an advantage to
> port Sugar as an application in the new windows 10S. These will really
> go along for this organization and more especially reaching more users
> in the MS world, because MS is making sure schools uses windows as an
> E-learning tool. So i think we should put this project as a goal for
> Sugar Labs, like we did with Raspberry Pi. I think we should really
> join the trend so that we can get more people using Sugar for Learning. 
>
> So what are your thought on this development?
>
> [1]
> https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/5/11/15625320/ubuntu-suse-linux-fedora-windows-store-microsoft-build-2017
> [2] https://fossbytes.com/ubuntu-linux-in-windows-store/
>
>
> BR
> Samson G
>
>
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