Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...
On 30 June 2016 at 17:01, Caryl Bigenhowrote: > Come on Dave! I trust the board members. If any of them were opposed > I'm sure we would know about it by now. Let them do the job they were elected > to do. You are welcome to volunteer as the board's secretary, the job Adam asked me to do. Would you like to do this? ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...
On 30 June 2016 at 18:06, Tony Andersonwrote: > Why can you not accept that some of the votes were not made to the IAEP > mailing list in error. You are opposing addressing this error but without explaining why. Please explain ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...
The following was my reply to Walter's request. Hi Walter, My intention was to vote in favor of the motion. Perhaps we need some standard way to vote so that it will be understood. Tony On 05/18/2016 02:01 PM, Walter Bender wrote: Please respond to this request for your vote today. If you are going to abstain, then please do me the courtesy of telling me. regards. -walter On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 2:11 AM, Tony Anderson> wrote: Agreed. Tony Unfortunately my reply went only to the SLOBs list (a feature of the reply all button in Thunderbird). Hola! +1 para Motion: to reimburse Edgar Quispe for expenses incurred representing Sugar Labs at the Traducción e interpretación en las lenguas originarias del Perú meeting in Lima. The cost is $168.88 Saludos! This vote was addressed to the SLOBs list. Adam's response: I find the practice of retroactively voting for funds to be highly unprofessional, in all instances. Nevertheless I am hereby voting in favor in this 1 instance, on the hope that Translation Community Manager Chris Leonard will begin improving the situation with a public blog going forward -- so everyone knows what's happening and why. This reply went to SLOBs, IAEP, and Sugar-devel. Lionel's response: +1 for the remark of Adam. +1 for the motion due to the relative small amount of money engaged. Lionel. This reply went to the three lists. Claudia's response: +1 from me! On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 8:29 AM, José Miguel García wrote: Hola! +1 para Motion: to reimburse Edgar Quispe for expenses incurred representing Sugar Labs at the Traducción e interpretación en las lenguas originarias del Perú meeting in Lima. The cost is $168.88 Saludos! ___ Lic. José Miguel García Montevideo - Uruguay Claudia's response went only to the SLOBs list. Sameer's response. This response went only to the SLOBs list. +1 Sameer On May 18, 2016 5:01 AM, "Walter Bender" > wrote: Please respond to this request for your vote today. If you are going to abstain, then please do me the courtesy of telling me. regards. -walter This appears to be 7 votes in favor of the motion. I apologize to any member who wished their response to be private. All a member should need to have the vote recorded. I think members should be able to keep their comments private. I'll try to look at the others, but I don't have more time at the moment. Tony On 06/30/2016 06:54 PM, Dave Crossland wrote: On 27 June 2016 at 10:55, Tony Anderson wrote: Can you identify these motions. Most of the votes were cast at the meetings. As far as I remember there were two email votes. Five motions have passed since I joined the project and I can only verify all 7 votes for 1 motion. The other 4 are: AGREED MOTION 2016-21, Walter Bender: to reimburse Edgar Quispe for expenses incurred representing Sugar Labs at the Traducción e interpretación en las lenguas originarias del Perú meeting in Lima. The cost is $168.88. (See http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2016-May/018196.html) AGREED MOTION 2016-19: To pay for laboratoriosazucar.org domain registration renewal AGREED MOTION 2016-14: To fund a program to initiate the translation of Sugar into Yoruba. The work would be led by Samson Goddy and reviewed by Chris Leonard, in his role as Translation Community Manager (See http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2016-May/052588.html) AGREED MOTION 2016-13 Dave Crossland: To update the Sugar License from GPLv2 to GPLv3 (http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2016-May/052588.html) . ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...
Hi On 21 June 2016 at 23:00, Dave Crosslandwrote: > The reason I am feeling frustration is that Adam, a board member, > asked me to administer the board's record of decisions on the wiki, > and my effort to do so has been fettered: reports of motion outcomes > are reported by the chair - Walter - but I could not verify those > votes in the public mail archive. > > Therefore I have offered a respectful motion to improve the > functioning of the organization by requiring votes on public motions > to be cross posted to the public mailing list and the private one in > order to be valid. > > I am not sure why anyone opposes that motion, and why it was not > seconded and approved. I would like the board to discuss this in the meeting tomorrow; why do all board members oppose that motion, refusing to second it? Cheers Dave ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...
On 27 June 2016 at 10:55, Tony Andersonwrote: > Can you identify these motions. Most of the votes were cast at the meetings. > As far as I remember there were two email votes. Five motions have passed since I joined the project and I can only verify all 7 votes for 1 motion. The other 4 are: AGREED MOTION 2016-21, Walter Bender: to reimburse Edgar Quispe for expenses incurred representing Sugar Labs at the Traducción e interpretación en las lenguas originarias del Perú meeting in Lima. The cost is $168.88. (See http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2016-May/018196.html) AGREED MOTION 2016-19: To pay for laboratoriosazucar.org domain registration renewal AGREED MOTION 2016-14: To fund a program to initiate the translation of Sugar into Yoruba. The work would be led by Samson Goddy and reviewed by Chris Leonard, in his role as Translation Community Manager (See http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2016-May/052588.html) AGREED MOTION 2016-13 Dave Crossland: To update the Sugar License from GPLv2 to GPLv3 (http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2016-May/052588.html) ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...
Hi, Dave Can you identify these motions. Most of the votes were cast at the meetings. As far as I remember there were two email votes. Tony On 06/27/2016 04:14 PM, Dave Crossland wrote: On 27 June 2016 at 09:24, Tony Andersonwrote: If it is useful. It surely is Why do you care for specific emails for specific votes? Transparency Do you have any specific motions where there is concern about whether it passed? Each motion where I can not observe each vote is a grave concern for me . ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...
On 27 June 2016 at 09:24, Tony Andersonwrote: > If it is useful. It surely is > Why do you care for specific emails for specific votes? Transparency > Do you have any specific motions where there is concern about > whether it passed? Each motion where I can not observe each vote is a grave concern for me ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...
Hi, Dave If it is useful. Why do you care for specific emails for specific votes? Do you have any specific motions where there is concern about whether it passed? Tony On 06/27/2016 02:42 PM, Dave Crossland wrote: Hi Tony On 21 June 2016 at 23:00, Dave Crosslandwrote: Please provide me with 7 links to 7 emails on a public mailing list from 2016-05-05 to 2016-05-12 for each of the votes for this motion that you say you are aware of. Would you be willing to do this? Cheers Dave . ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...
Hi Tony On 21 June 2016 at 23:00, Dave Crosslandwrote: > Please provide me with 7 links to 7 emails on a public mailing list > from 2016-05-05 to 2016-05-12 for each of the votes for this motion > that you say you are aware of. Would you be willing to do this? Cheers Dave ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...
On 21 June 2016 at 01:28, Tony Andersonwrote: > You still confuse me. Someone who is not on the Board cannot submit a motion > (email or otherwise) This is simply, factually, false. In http://www.mail-archive.com/iaep%40lists.sugarlabs.org/msg16403.html Walter notes that (a) the GPL motion - **which you voted to approve** - was submitted (i) by email, and (ii) by Sebastian, not a SLOB member, and (b) it was voted on in a private thread on the SLOBs list, which Walter regretfully informs us he forgot to CC to the lists. In http://www.mail-archive.com/iaep%40lists.sugarlabs.org/msg16429.html Walter reports the outcome of the vote, but it is impossible for members to verify this. I am not accusing Walter of the board of acting in bad faith. I am simply stating facts, and posting motions to avoid procedural mistakes. When the board is voting on financial matters, procedural mistakes become more serious, so I am eager to resolve the cause of the problems _now_ before they are a problem _later._ > I am certainly not aware of any motion > made by a member of the Board which has not been handled entirely in public. Here is another recent motion which is reportedly passed but I can not verify the votes. The motion posted by Walter Bender which you can see here, http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2016-May/018196.html and http://www.mail-archive.com/iaep%40lists.sugarlabs.org/msg16405.html The text of the motion is: Motion: to reimburse Edgar Quispe for expenses incurred representing Sugar Labs at the Traducción e interpretación en las lenguas originarias del Perú meeting in Lima. The cost is $168.88. Please provide me with 7 links to 7 emails on a public mailing list from 2016-05-05 to 2016-05-12 for each of the votes for this motion that you say you are aware of. >> Since you are on the SLOB list I am not surprised, but since I am not, how >> can I know? > > The meetings of the Board are public. Yes, I am on the SLOBs list, and I can > assure you there is nothing secret happening there. Your continued > assertions that Board members are somehow deliberately acting behind the > backs of SL members is not helpful. I am not accusing anyone of acting behind anyone's backs. As you know I have engaged the SLOBs list privately over legally sensitive trademark matters, which I hope demonstrates that I understand and agree with the need for a private board discussion forum. What I am frustrated about is the board voting privately, and I see room to improve board procedures since there is a chance of potentially voting privately which I think ought to be formally avoided. I don't mean to be making accusations, rather sincerely stating the facts as I see them. It's a fact, widely acknowledged, that the board _can_ vote on public motions privately. I hope this will be rectified. The reason I am feeling frustration is that Adam, a board member, asked me to administer the board's record of decisions on the wiki, and my effort to do so has been fettered: reports of motion outcomes are reported by the chair - Walter - but I could not verify those votes in the public mail archive. Therefore I have offered a respectful motion to improve the functioning of the organization by requiring votes on public motions to be cross posted to the public mailing list and the private one in order to be valid. I am not sure why anyone opposes that motion, and why it was not seconded and approved. Responding to the overall situation of the board not acting promptly, I have posted motions that I wish to see the board adopt to order the monthly meeting in a productive way. Like Laura, I feel hurt because, like everyone, I have a need to be heard and acknowledged, and she and I have contributed to the improvement of the board but our need has not been met. I also think that Caryl's motions have also not been given much support from each board member to help the motions reach a version that can pass. > Your assertion that Board members > are not acting promptly and decisively is not supported by the record and is > also not helpful. I have explained exactly and precisely to you how the board members have not acted promptly and decisively. I've also asked in other threads for the board to each post your thoughts about each motion that has been posted by members that have not been publicly commented on, earlier this week. I do not know what else I can do to make this completely clear to you. -- Cheers Dave ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] A Better Idea...
Hi, On 20 June 2016 at 02:51, Tony Andersonwrote: > > Could you be specific on the necessary procedural actions that the Board > did not take? > Consideration of motions visible to Members. > Note that the Oversight Board/decisions page does not show the GSOC mentor > motion as passed. > Since it passed it says: AGREED MOTION 2016-34 Could you be specific on instances where the Board voted privately? Since > most of this activity occurs during Board meetings which are public, and > which you frequently attend - I see nothing private there. > "Most of this activity occurs during Board meetings" is factually false, because motions can be posted and deliberated and voted on via email for 7 days after they are posted, irrespective of that 7 day period coinciding with a monthly board meeting, and most recent motions have been posted via email and not seen any consideration visible to members from most board members. The problem is not that the board has voted completely privately, but that the board appears not to have voted at all - yet there is no way of knowing because votes _may_ be cast privately. In the last motion that was voted on, the GSOC one, Walter told me a private vote and I accept this on good faith but it is not ideal. Thus my latest motion. > So you must be referring to email votes. These are and should be rare. > I have no idea why you think that. > On the Oversight Board/decisions page, you should show motions decided by > email vote. The only two I remember were the Quispe motion and the GSOC > motion. I don't remember anything private in those votes. > Since you are on the SLOB list I am not surprised, but since I am not, how can I know? -- Cheers Dave ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep