Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Esteban Bordón ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy wrote: In fact, Sugar working quite well, the main problem is that in many activities does not using the function zoom defined in sugar/graphics/style.py and doesn't scale well. In your screenshots, it becomes clear that there is a problem with the Journal detail view. We'll need to work on that. As far as individual activities, perhaps we need a Code Sprint some weekend to identify and fix the misbehaving ones, starting with the ones that are of most interest to the teachers and kids. regards. -walter I attach some screenshots. regards, Esteban Bordón Investigación y Desarrollo - Plan Ceibal Centro Ceibal - Av. Italia 6201 - Montevideo, Uruguay 2011/6/16 Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Esteban Bordón ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy wrote: One of the most noticeable source for incompatibilities seems to be screen definition, 800x600 in the Olidata, and thus several Activities are cropped, Screen definition is 800x480 ... Ouch, quite a few Activity toolbars will likely overflow at 800x600 (overflow widgets land in a drop down menu in the far right of the toolbar that shows the text from the tool button hint only). The XO is a 1200x900 screen, about a year or two back there was general consensus that we should try and make sure Activities worked well down too 1024x768 as that was common in emulated environments and regular laptops/desktops. These 800x600 display machines will want to make sure they are running Sugar using an environmental variable of SUGAR_SCALING=72, this will shrink the UI scale down to fit the lower screen resolution. SUGAR_SCALING currently only has an effect at either 72 (works well for 800x600 and 1024x768) or 100 (for 1200x900 or larger). Hmm. I routinely run Sugar in a VM at 800x600 and it is -- with very few exceptions -- working quite well. I've not tried 800x480 in a while... not ideal, but it should generally work. Can you describe some of the specific problems you are encountering? -walter With SUGAR_SCALING=72 Sugar have some problems showing properties of a journal entry for example. I trying to set lower values of SUGAR_SCALING but I have not getting good results. Regards, Esteban. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay
In most cases the problem is specific of the activities, then people must modify the activities one by one. 2011/6/16 Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com Hello Esteban (and all), It would be wonderful if you or someone else could write up some very easy to follow instructions for doing the screen scaling, in Spanish, for the teachers in Uruguay. Don't assume anything. Pretend the teacher is a total beginner (on the Olidata many will be). Make it a Grannie's Guide type document and they will love you forever for doing it! Caryl (aka GrannieB) -- From: ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:58:43 -0300 To: garycmar...@googlemail.com CC: IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org; yamap...@gmail.com; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay One of the most noticeable source for incompatibilities seems to be screen definition, 800x600 in the Olidata, and thus several Activities are cropped, Screen definition is 800x480 ... Ouch, quite a few Activity toolbars will likely overflow at 800x600 (overflow widgets land in a drop down menu in the far right of the toolbar that shows the text from the tool button hint only). The XO is a 1200x900 screen, about a year or two back there was general consensus that we should try and make sure Activities worked well down too 1024x768 as that was common in emulated environments and regular laptops/desktops. These 800x600 display machines will want to make sure they are running Sugar using an environmental variable of SUGAR_SCALING=72, this will shrink the UI scale down to fit the lower screen resolution. SUGAR_SCALING currently only has an effect at either 72 (works well for 800x600 and 1024x768) or 100 (for 1200x900 or larger). With SUGAR_SCALING=72 Sugar have some problems showing properties of a journal entry for example. I trying to set lower values of SUGAR_SCALING but I have not getting good results. Regards, Esteban. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Esteban Bordón ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy wrote: In most cases the problem is specific of the activities, then people must modify the activities one by one. 2011/6/16 Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com Hello Esteban (and all), It would be wonderful if you or someone else could write up some very easy to follow instructions for doing the screen scaling, in Spanish, for the teachers in Uruguay. Don't assume anything. Pretend the teacher is a total beginner (on the Olidata many will be). Make it a Grannie's Guide type document and they will love you forever for doing it! Caryl (aka GrannieB) From: ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:58:43 -0300 To: garycmar...@googlemail.com CC: IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org; yamap...@gmail.com; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay One of the most noticeable source for incompatibilities seems to be screen definition, 800x600 in the Olidata, and thus several Activities are cropped, Screen definition is 800x480 ... Ouch, quite a few Activity toolbars will likely overflow at 800x600 (overflow widgets land in a drop down menu in the far right of the toolbar that shows the text from the tool button hint only). The XO is a 1200x900 screen, about a year or two back there was general consensus that we should try and make sure Activities worked well down too 1024x768 as that was common in emulated environments and regular laptops/desktops. These 800x600 display machines will want to make sure they are running Sugar using an environmental variable of SUGAR_SCALING=72, this will shrink the UI scale down to fit the lower screen resolution. SUGAR_SCALING currently only has an effect at either 72 (works well for 800x600 and 1024x768) or 100 (for 1200x900 or larger). With SUGAR_SCALING=72 Sugar have some problems showing properties of a journal entry for example. I trying to set lower values of SUGAR_SCALING but I have not getting good results. Regards, Esteban. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel I've created a ticket to track the Journal Detail View problem: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2899 regards. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay
Thanks. We'll try to start to fix the most interest activities. regards, Esteban. 2011/6/17 Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Esteban Bordón ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy wrote: In most cases the problem is specific of the activities, then people must modify the activities one by one. 2011/6/16 Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com Hello Esteban (and all), It would be wonderful if you or someone else could write up some very easy to follow instructions for doing the screen scaling, in Spanish, for the teachers in Uruguay. Don't assume anything. Pretend the teacher is a total beginner (on the Olidata many will be). Make it a Grannie's Guide type document and they will love you forever for doing it! Caryl (aka GrannieB) From: ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:58:43 -0300 To: garycmar...@googlemail.com CC: IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org; yamap...@gmail.com; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay One of the most noticeable source for incompatibilities seems to be screen definition, 800x600 in the Olidata, and thus several Activities are cropped, Screen definition is 800x480 ... Ouch, quite a few Activity toolbars will likely overflow at 800x600 (overflow widgets land in a drop down menu in the far right of the toolbar that shows the text from the tool button hint only). The XO is a 1200x900 screen, about a year or two back there was general consensus that we should try and make sure Activities worked well down too 1024x768 as that was common in emulated environments and regular laptops/desktops. These 800x600 display machines will want to make sure they are running Sugar using an environmental variable of SUGAR_SCALING=72, this will shrink the UI scale down to fit the lower screen resolution. SUGAR_SCALING currently only has an effect at either 72 (works well for 800x600 and 1024x768) or 100 (for 1200x900 or larger). With SUGAR_SCALING=72 Sugar have some problems showing properties of a journal entry for example. I trying to set lower values of SUGAR_SCALING but I have not getting good results. Regards, Esteban. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel I've created a ticket to track the Journal Detail View problem: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2899 regards. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay
On 17 Jun 2011, at 14:42, Esteban Bordón wrote: Thanks. We'll try to start to fix the most interest activities. Thanks for your screenshots. I've created a ticket for Cartoon Builder, TamTamMini, and Distance, if you could report and take more screenshots of other activities you discover that would be very helpful: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2900 http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2901 http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2902 Some background FWIW: Much of Sugar and its activities were designed with the 1200x900 screen in mind, luckily with the XO screen rotation feature most developers were also often reminded and aware of needing to make sure their design layouts were flexible enough to work at 900x1200. When Sugar Labs was spun off from OLPC to work on Sugar, there was much effort from SL to make Sugar more hardware agnostic and work on more traditional laptops, part of this meant that 1024x768 was much more commonly being used and tested by developers; and the default when running Sugar in a window under Gnome was 800x600, which has been generally treated as the worst case scenario. So it's that 480 vertical pixels count, a reduction of 120 from our assumed worst case, that's catching some of us out ;-) Regards, --Gary regards, Esteban. 2011/6/17 Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Esteban Bordón ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy wrote: In most cases the problem is specific of the activities, then people must modify the activities one by one. 2011/6/16 Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com Hello Esteban (and all), It would be wonderful if you or someone else could write up some very easy to follow instructions for doing the screen scaling, in Spanish, for the teachers in Uruguay. Don't assume anything. Pretend the teacher is a total beginner (on the Olidata many will be). Make it a Grannie's Guide type document and they will love you forever for doing it! Caryl (aka GrannieB) From: ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:58:43 -0300 To: garycmar...@googlemail.com CC: IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org; yamap...@gmail.com; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay One of the most noticeable source for incompatibilities seems to be screen definition, 800x600 in the Olidata, and thus several Activities are cropped, Screen definition is 800x480 ... Ouch, quite a few Activity toolbars will likely overflow at 800x600 (overflow widgets land in a drop down menu in the far right of the toolbar that shows the text from the tool button hint only). The XO is a 1200x900 screen, about a year or two back there was general consensus that we should try and make sure Activities worked well down too 1024x768 as that was common in emulated environments and regular laptops/desktops. These 800x600 display machines will want to make sure they are running Sugar using an environmental variable of SUGAR_SCALING=72, this will shrink the UI scale down to fit the lower screen resolution. SUGAR_SCALING currently only has an effect at either 72 (works well for 800x600 and 1024x768) or 100 (for 1200x900 or larger). With SUGAR_SCALING=72 Sugar have some problems showing properties of a journal entry for example. I trying to set lower values of SUGAR_SCALING but I have not getting good results. Regards, Esteban. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel I've created a ticket to track the Journal Detail View problem: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2899 regards. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay
FYI, I acquired a Gen1 Classmate with 7 screen (an Olidata JumPc) for testing purposes two years ago and with Martin Langhoff's help filed a ticket on this issue: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/868 this photo of mine may be helpful to see what we're talking about: http://www.flickr.com/photos/39656470@N02/3648785920/in/photostream I remember being told that there were no plans to scale Sugar screens to work with 480, that 600 was the minimum Sean On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Gary Martin garycmar...@googlemail.com wrote: On 17 Jun 2011, at 14:42, Esteban Bordón wrote: Thanks. We'll try to start to fix the most interest activities. Thanks for your screenshots. I've created a ticket for Cartoon Builder, TamTamMini, and Distance, if you could report and take more screenshots of other activities you discover that would be very helpful: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2900 http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2901 http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2902 Some background FWIW: Much of Sugar and its activities were designed with the 1200x900 screen in mind, luckily with the XO screen rotation feature most developers were also often reminded and aware of needing to make sure their design layouts were flexible enough to work at 900x1200. When Sugar Labs was spun off from OLPC to work on Sugar, there was much effort from SL to make Sugar more hardware agnostic and work on more traditional laptops, part of this meant that 1024x768 was much more commonly being used and tested by developers; and the default when running Sugar in a window under Gnome was 800x600, which has been generally treated as the worst case scenario. So it's that 480 vertical pixels count, a reduction of 120 from our assumed worst case, that's catching some of us out ;-) Regards, --Gary regards, Esteban. 2011/6/17 Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Esteban Bordón ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy wrote: In most cases the problem is specific of the activities, then people must modify the activities one by one. 2011/6/16 Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com Hello Esteban (and all), It would be wonderful if you or someone else could write up some very easy to follow instructions for doing the screen scaling, in Spanish, for the teachers in Uruguay. Don't assume anything. Pretend the teacher is a total beginner (on the Olidata many will be). Make it a Grannie's Guide type document and they will love you forever for doing it! Caryl (aka GrannieB) From: ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:58:43 -0300 To: garycmar...@googlemail.com CC: IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org; yamap...@gmail.com; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay One of the most noticeable source for incompatibilities seems to be screen definition, 800x600 in the Olidata, and thus several Activities are cropped, Screen definition is 800x480 ... Ouch, quite a few Activity toolbars will likely overflow at 800x600 (overflow widgets land in a drop down menu in the far right of the toolbar that shows the text from the tool button hint only). The XO is a 1200x900 screen, about a year or two back there was general consensus that we should try and make sure Activities worked well down too 1024x768 as that was common in emulated environments and regular laptops/desktops. These 800x600 display machines will want to make sure they are running Sugar using an environmental variable of SUGAR_SCALING=72, this will shrink the UI scale down to fit the lower screen resolution. SUGAR_SCALING currently only has an effect at either 72 (works well for 800x600 and 1024x768) or 100 (for 1200x900 or larger). With SUGAR_SCALING=72 Sugar have some problems showing properties of a journal entry for example. I trying to set lower values of SUGAR_SCALING but I have not getting good results. Regards, Esteban. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel I've created a ticket to track the Journal Detail View problem: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2899 regards. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay
Hi Sean, On 17 Jun 2011, at 16:39, Sean DALY wrote: FYI, I acquired a Gen1 Classmate with 7 screen (an Olidata JumPc) for testing purposes two years ago and with Martin Langhoff's help filed a ticket on this issue: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/868 Thanks, yes that ended up as closed as a duplicate of: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/308 Which is reported as fixed (though not something I have tested myself). If reports filtering through that Uyaguay have indeed already purchased 30,000 (!!) of these for use by teachers then we need to try and get tickets open for all the major cases. Hopefully we will also see some support from the Uy deployment as when saving money thru buying cheaper but different spec hardware, putting some efforts in bringing the needed software up to the deployments requirements must be expected. this photo of mine may be helpful to see what we're talking about: http://www.flickr.com/photos/39656470@N02/3648785920/in/photostream Thanks, I think I also caught a photo of it from the recent EduJam flickr stream, nice to see you were well ahead of the storm front ;-) I remember being told that there were no plans to scale Sugar screens to work with 480, that 600 was the minimum I'm happy to tweak activities I directly maintain if needed, and provide some design suggestions for others if needed (as long as we don't degrade the experience for the majority). But if the 30k Uy purchase of these machines is an accurate report, we should try to help where we can (understanding that the majority of us are volunteers putting what free time we have into the effort). Regards, --Gary Sean On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Gary Martin garycmar...@googlemail.com wrote: On 17 Jun 2011, at 14:42, Esteban Bordón wrote: Thanks. We'll try to start to fix the most interest activities. Thanks for your screenshots. I've created a ticket for Cartoon Builder, TamTamMini, and Distance, if you could report and take more screenshots of other activities you discover that would be very helpful: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2900 http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2901 http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2902 Some background FWIW: Much of Sugar and its activities were designed with the 1200x900 screen in mind, luckily with the XO screen rotation feature most developers were also often reminded and aware of needing to make sure their design layouts were flexible enough to work at 900x1200. When Sugar Labs was spun off from OLPC to work on Sugar, there was much effort from SL to make Sugar more hardware agnostic and work on more traditional laptops, part of this meant that 1024x768 was much more commonly being used and tested by developers; and the default when running Sugar in a window under Gnome was 800x600, which has been generally treated as the worst case scenario. So it's that 480 vertical pixels count, a reduction of 120 from our assumed worst case, that's catching some of us out ;-) Regards, --Gary regards, Esteban. 2011/6/17 Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Esteban Bordón ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy wrote: In most cases the problem is specific of the activities, then people must modify the activities one by one. 2011/6/16 Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com Hello Esteban (and all), It would be wonderful if you or someone else could write up some very easy to follow instructions for doing the screen scaling, in Spanish, for the teachers in Uruguay. Don't assume anything. Pretend the teacher is a total beginner (on the Olidata many will be). Make it a Grannie's Guide type document and they will love you forever for doing it! Caryl (aka GrannieB) From: ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:58:43 -0300 To: garycmar...@googlemail.com CC: IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org; yamap...@gmail.com; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay One of the most noticeable source for incompatibilities seems to be screen definition, 800x600 in the Olidata, and thus several Activities are cropped, Screen definition is 800x480 ... Ouch, quite a few Activity toolbars will likely overflow at 800x600 (overflow widgets land in a drop down menu in the far right of the toolbar that shows the text from the tool button hint only). The XO is a 1200x900 screen, about a year or two back there was general consensus that we should try and make sure Activities worked well down too 1024x768 as that was common in emulated environments and regular laptops/desktops. These 800x600 display machines will want to make sure they are running Sugar using an environmental variable of SUGAR_SCALING=72, this will shrink the UI scale down to fit the lower screen resolution. SUGAR_SCALING currently only has an effect at either 72 (works well
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Gary Martin garycmar...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Sean, On 17 Jun 2011, at 16:39, Sean DALY wrote: FYI, I acquired a Gen1 Classmate with 7 screen (an Olidata JumPc) for testing purposes two years ago and with Martin Langhoff's help filed a ticket on this issue: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/868 Thanks, yes that ended up as closed as a duplicate of: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/308 Which is reported as fixed (though not something I have tested myself). If reports filtering through that Uyaguay have indeed already purchased 30,000 (!!) of these for use by teachers then we need to try and get tickets open for all the major cases. Hopefully we will also see some support from the Uy deployment as when saving money thru buying cheaper but different spec hardware, putting some efforts in bringing the needed software up to the deployments requirements must be expected. this photo of mine may be helpful to see what we're talking about: http://www.flickr.com/photos/39656470@N02/3648785920/in/photostream Thanks, I think I also caught a photo of it from the recent EduJam flickr stream, nice to see you were well ahead of the storm front ;-) I remember being told that there were no plans to scale Sugar screens to work with 480, that 600 was the minimum I'm happy to tweak activities I directly maintain if needed, and provide some design suggestions for others if needed (as long as we don't degrade the experience for the majority). But if the 30k Uy purchase of these machines is an accurate report, we should try to help where we can (understanding that the majority of us are volunteers putting what free time we have into the effort). I think the easiest thing would be to add a scrolling window...only if the resolution is below some threshold; not ideal in some cases, but at least most activities should work. -walter Regards, --Gary Sean On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Gary Martin garycmar...@googlemail.com wrote: On 17 Jun 2011, at 14:42, Esteban Bordón wrote: Thanks. We'll try to start to fix the most interest activities. Thanks for your screenshots. I've created a ticket for Cartoon Builder, TamTamMini, and Distance, if you could report and take more screenshots of other activities you discover that would be very helpful: http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2900 http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2901 http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/2902 Some background FWIW: Much of Sugar and its activities were designed with the 1200x900 screen in mind, luckily with the XO screen rotation feature most developers were also often reminded and aware of needing to make sure their design layouts were flexible enough to work at 900x1200. When Sugar Labs was spun off from OLPC to work on Sugar, there was much effort from SL to make Sugar more hardware agnostic and work on more traditional laptops, part of this meant that 1024x768 was much more commonly being used and tested by developers; and the default when running Sugar in a window under Gnome was 800x600, which has been generally treated as the worst case scenario. So it's that 480 vertical pixels count, a reduction of 120 from our assumed worst case, that's catching some of us out ;-) Regards, --Gary regards, Esteban. 2011/6/17 Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Esteban Bordón ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy wrote: In most cases the problem is specific of the activities, then people must modify the activities one by one. 2011/6/16 Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com Hello Esteban (and all), It would be wonderful if you or someone else could write up some very easy to follow instructions for doing the screen scaling, in Spanish, for the teachers in Uruguay. Don't assume anything. Pretend the teacher is a total beginner (on the Olidata many will be). Make it a Grannie's Guide type document and they will love you forever for doing it! Caryl (aka GrannieB) From: ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:58:43 -0300 To: garycmar...@googlemail.com CC: IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org; yamap...@gmail.com; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay One of the most noticeable source for incompatibilities seems to be screen definition, 800x600 in the Olidata, and thus several Activities are cropped, Screen definition is 800x480 ... Ouch, quite a few Activity toolbars will likely overflow at 800x600 (overflow widgets land in a drop down menu in the far right of the toolbar that shows the text from the tool button hint only). The XO is a 1200x900 screen, about a year or two back there was general consensus that we should try and make sure Activities worked well down too 1024x768 as that was common in emulated environments and regular laptops/desktops
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay
One of the most noticeable source for incompatibilities seems to be screen definition, 800x600 in the Olidata, and thus several Activities are cropped, Screen definition is 800x480 ... Ouch, quite a few Activity toolbars will likely overflow at 800x600 (overflow widgets land in a drop down menu in the far right of the toolbar that shows the text from the tool button hint only). The XO is a 1200x900 screen, about a year or two back there was general consensus that we should try and make sure Activities worked well down too 1024x768 as that was common in emulated environments and regular laptops/desktops. These 800x600 display machines will want to make sure they are running Sugar using an environmental variable of SUGAR_SCALING=72, this will shrink the UI scale down to fit the lower screen resolution. SUGAR_SCALING currently only has an effect at either 72 (works well for 800x600 and 1024x768) or 100 (for 1200x900 or larger). With SUGAR_SCALING=72 Sugar have some problems showing properties of a journal entry for example. I trying to set lower values of SUGAR_SCALING but I have not getting good results. Regards, Esteban. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay
Hello Esteban (and all), It would be wonderful if you or someone else could write up some very easy to follow instructions for doing the screen scaling, in Spanish, for the teachers in Uruguay. Don't assume anything. Pretend the teacher is a total beginner (on the Olidata many will be). Make it a Grannie's Guide type document and they will love you forever for doing it! Caryl (aka GrannieB) From: ebor...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:58:43 -0300 To: garycmar...@googlemail.com CC: IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org; yamap...@gmail.com; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay One of the most noticeable source for incompatibilities seems to be screen definition, 800x600 in the Olidata, and thus several Activities are cropped, Screen definition is 800x480 ... Ouch, quite a few Activity toolbars will likely overflow at 800x600 (overflow widgets land in a drop down menu in the far right of the toolbar that shows the text from the tool button hint only). The XO is a 1200x900 screen, about a year or two back there was general consensus that we should try and make sure Activities worked well down too 1024x768 as that was common in emulated environments and regular laptops/desktops. These 800x600 display machines will want to make sure they are running Sugar using an environmental variable of SUGAR_SCALING=72, this will shrink the UI scale down to fit the lower screen resolution. SUGAR_SCALING currently only has an effect at either 72 (works well for 800x600 and 1024x768) or 100 (for 1200x900 or larger). With SUGAR_SCALING=72 Sugar have some problems showing properties of a journal entry for example. I trying to set lower values of SUGAR_SCALING but I have not getting good results. Regards, Esteban. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 3:55 PM, David Farning dfarn...@activitycentral.comwrote: -Original Message- From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:sugar-devel- boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Gary Martin Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 2:13 PM To: Yamandu Ploskonka Cc: IAEP SugarLabs; Sugar-dev Devel Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Olidata computers in Uruguay On 2 May 2011, at 16:47, Yamandu Ploskonka wrote: the Sur list is following this thread in detail, I just wanted to share a FYI for developers. 30,000 Olidata laptops have been purchased by Ceibal at $130 apiece and teachers are being upgraded to those, trading in their XOs. Thanks for raising this issue! I've cc:ed the sugar-devel list as it's the first I've read of this. +1 We had the opportunity to work with one of these machines this morning. It looks like we should start looking into supporting this piece of hardware. After looking at this for the past couple of weeks, I looks like installing the Fedora based SoaS appears to be the path of least resistance. The unit we saw this morning seems to be the most recent stock SoaS + 80% of the dextrose patches + a patch set developed by Uruguay. Yes, we use Soas with F13 and our dextrose.uy rpm's. But we have problems to share activities between this machine and XOs (with F11). So, we are making some tests making a new Olidata image with Soas with F11 (the first test was positive). Both machines (XO's and olidata) have the same dextrose.uy sugar version. We will bring some olidata machines to EduJam. David One of the most noticeable source for incompatibilities seems to be screen definition, 800x600 in the Olidata, and thus several Activities are cropped, Ouch, quite a few Activity toolbars will likely overflow at 800x600 (overflow widgets land in a drop down menu in the far right of the toolbar that shows the text from the tool button hint only). The XO is a 1200x900 screen, about a year or two back there was general consensus that we should try and make sure Activities worked well down too 1024x768 as that was common in emulated environments and regular laptops/desktops. These 800x600 display machines will want to make sure they are running Sugar using an environmental variable of SUGAR_SCALING=72, this will shrink the UI scale down to fit the lower screen resolution. SUGAR_SCALING currently only has an effect at either 72 (works well for 800x600 and 1024x768) or 100 (for 1200x900 or larger). There will likely still be activities drawing their canvas with hard coded expectations of screen size, but hopefully these will be reasonably few in number by now. Please file a ticket if you find any (bugs.sugarlabs.org ), or feel free to email me and I'll try and chase them up. One last additional issue you may find is with the dpi of text. Some activities may seem to display overly large or small text fonts. This issue is quite a black art to solve well, but still worth keeping an eye out for and reporting back to the Activity developer. Regards, --Gary maybe something to be aware of. Etoys appears to have been fixed already. On 05/02/2011 02:15 AM, nanon...@mediagala.com wrote: El pLan Ceibal en Uruguay está entregando a las Aaestras de Primaria las Olidata Jump PC, con disco flash de 8 GB http://www.olidata.cl/index.php/netbook_web/show/id/10 Las olidata se las dan a las MAestras a cambio de sus XO. Me parece una decisión errada, ya que la intención del PLan ceibal es darles a las Maestras una maquina más potente y al día (con respecto a las XO 1 de los niños, de hace dos o tres años), pero eso me parece un gran disparate, no puede ser que la MAestra no pueda hacer pruebas sobre las XO de los Niños. La MAestra tiene que entregar su XO 1.0 al Plan Ceibal (que le fue entregada hace un par de años) y el Plan ceibal se la cambia por una Olidata. El Año pasado fueron compradas 30.000 olidata , según la pagina web institucional del Plan Ceibal. --- Una cosa que no me parece correcta es que la laptop de maestra sea diferente ala XO: tiene más capacidad ara el Diario, eso es bueno(8 Gb contra 1 Gb), pero la pantalla es diferente, el hardware es distinto, y el sugar no funciona en forma identica, por lo tanto cualquier cosa que la Maestra use en su Laptop no podrá ser repetido por los alumnos de la misma forma. NO tiene sentido querer darle una maquina más potente a las MAestras, ya que si por ejemplo la Maestra hace una actividad Etoys en su casa , usando sonidos, animación , etc etc, luego va a la clase y le dice a los niños que lo repitan, pero resulta que lo mismo en las Xo tal vez va mas lento, o no funciona igual, o se ve solo en partes Si se le quiere dar una maquina más potente a las Maestras, deberían dejar que
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay
FWIW, this is a method I include in all my (strictly text-based) activities. It both sizes fonts to fit on various-width screens, and allows a user (or deployment) to decrease/increase font size. (It also works with all versions of Sugar for the XO and SoaS, to my knowledge.) def scale_font(self, widget): font = widget.get_pango_context().get_font_description() # The FONT DISPLAY in this activity can be resized (smaller or larger) # by changing the value of resize below. Resize can be positive # or negative, and is not limited to integers. A value of 1 equals a # point in font size. resize = 0 font_size = font.get_size() + (resize * 1024) width = gtk.gdk.screen_width() mult = width * .00076 if os.path.exists(/etc/olpc-release) or os.path.exists(/etc/power/olpc-pm): mult = width * .00082 elif os.path.exists(/etc/fedora-release): release = open(/etc/fedora-release).read() if release.find(SoaS release 1 ) != -1: mult = width * .00132 elif release.find(SoaS release 2 ) != -1: mult = width * .00085 elif release.find(Fedora release ) != -1: mult = width * .00119 font.set_size(int(font_size * mult)) widget.modify_font(font) Art Hunkins - Original Message - From: Gary Martin garycmar...@googlemail.com To: Yamandu Ploskonka yamap...@gmail.com Cc: IAEP SugarLabs IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org; Sugar-dev Devel sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Olidata computers in Uruguay On 2 May 2011, at 16:47, Yamandu Ploskonka wrote: the Sur list is following this thread in detail, I just wanted to share a FYI for developers. 30,000 Olidata laptops have been purchased by Ceibal at $130 apiece and teachers are being upgraded to those, trading in their XOs. Thanks for raising this issue! I've cc:ed the sugar-devel list as it's the first I've read of this. One of the most noticeable source for incompatibilities seems to be screen definition, 800x600 in the Olidata, and thus several Activities are cropped, Ouch, quite a few Activity toolbars will likely overflow at 800x600 (overflow widgets land in a drop down menu in the far right of the toolbar that shows the text from the tool button hint only). The XO is a 1200x900 screen, about a year or two back there was general consensus that we should try and make sure Activities worked well down too 1024x768 as that was common in emulated environments and regular laptops/desktops. These 800x600 display machines will want to make sure they are running Sugar using an environmental variable of SUGAR_SCALING=72, this will shrink the UI scale down to fit the lower screen resolution. SUGAR_SCALING currently only has an effect at either 72 (works well for 800x600 and 1024x768) or 100 (for 1200x900 or larger). There will likely still be activities drawing their canvas with hard coded expectations of screen size, but hopefully these will be reasonably few in number by now. Please file a ticket if you find any (bugs.sugarlabs.org), or feel free to email me and I'll try and chase them up. One last additional issue you may find is with the dpi of text. Some activities may seem to display overly large or small text fonts. This issue is quite a black art to solve well, but still worth keeping an eye out for and reporting back to the Activity developer. Regards, --Gary maybe something to be aware of. Etoys appears to have been fixed already. On 05/02/2011 02:15 AM, nanon...@mediagala.com wrote: El pLan Ceibal en Uruguay está entregando a las Aaestras de Primaria las Olidata Jump PC, con disco flash de 8 GB http://www.olidata.cl/index.php/netbook_web/show/id/10 Las olidata se las dan a las MAestras a cambio de sus XO. Me parece una decisión errada, ya que la intención del PLan ceibal es darles a las Maestras una maquina más potente y al día (con respecto a las XO 1 de los niños, de hace dos o tres años), pero eso me parece un gran disparate, no puede ser que la MAestra no pueda hacer pruebas sobre las XO de los Niños. La MAestra tiene que entregar su XO 1.0 al Plan Ceibal (que le fue entregada hace un par de años) y el Plan ceibal se la cambia por una Olidata. El Año pasado fueron compradas 30.000 olidata , según la pagina web institucional del Plan Ceibal. --- Una cosa que no me parece correcta es que la laptop de maestra sea diferente ala XO: tiene más capacidad ara el Diario, eso es bueno(8 Gb contra 1 Gb), pero la pantalla es diferente, el hardware es distinto, y el sugar no funciona en forma identica, por lo tanto cualquier cosa que la Maestra use en su Laptop no podrá ser repetido por los alumnos de la misma forma. NO tiene sentido querer darle una maquina más potente a las MAestras, ya que si por ejemplo la Maestra hace una actividad Etoys en su casa , usando sonidos, animación , etc etc, luego va a la clase y le dice a los niños que lo repitan, pero resulta que lo mismo en las Xo tal vez va mas
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Olidata computers in Uruguay
-Original Message- From: sugar-devel-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:sugar-devel- boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Gary Martin Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 2:13 PM To: Yamandu Ploskonka Cc: IAEP SugarLabs; Sugar-dev Devel Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Olidata computers in Uruguay On 2 May 2011, at 16:47, Yamandu Ploskonka wrote: the Sur list is following this thread in detail, I just wanted to share a FYI for developers. 30,000 Olidata laptops have been purchased by Ceibal at $130 apiece and teachers are being upgraded to those, trading in their XOs. Thanks for raising this issue! I've cc:ed the sugar-devel list as it's the first I've read of this. +1 We had the opportunity to work with one of these machines this morning. It looks like we should start looking into supporting this piece of hardware. After looking at this for the past couple of weeks, I looks like installing the Fedora based SoaS appears to be the path of least resistance. The unit we saw this morning seems to be the most recent stock SoaS + 80% of the dextrose patches + a patch set developed by Uruguay. David One of the most noticeable source for incompatibilities seems to be screen definition, 800x600 in the Olidata, and thus several Activities are cropped, Ouch, quite a few Activity toolbars will likely overflow at 800x600 (overflow widgets land in a drop down menu in the far right of the toolbar that shows the text from the tool button hint only). The XO is a 1200x900 screen, about a year or two back there was general consensus that we should try and make sure Activities worked well down too 1024x768 as that was common in emulated environments and regular laptops/desktops. These 800x600 display machines will want to make sure they are running Sugar using an environmental variable of SUGAR_SCALING=72, this will shrink the UI scale down to fit the lower screen resolution. SUGAR_SCALING currently only has an effect at either 72 (works well for 800x600 and 1024x768) or 100 (for 1200x900 or larger). There will likely still be activities drawing their canvas with hard coded expectations of screen size, but hopefully these will be reasonably few in number by now. Please file a ticket if you find any (bugs.sugarlabs.org), or feel free to email me and I'll try and chase them up. One last additional issue you may find is with the dpi of text. Some activities may seem to display overly large or small text fonts. This issue is quite a black art to solve well, but still worth keeping an eye out for and reporting back to the Activity developer. Regards, --Gary maybe something to be aware of. Etoys appears to have been fixed already. On 05/02/2011 02:15 AM, nanon...@mediagala.com wrote: El pLan Ceibal en Uruguay está entregando a las Aaestras de Primaria las Olidata Jump PC, con disco flash de 8 GB http://www.olidata.cl/index.php/netbook_web/show/id/10 Las olidata se las dan a las MAestras a cambio de sus XO. Me parece una decisión errada, ya que la intención del PLan ceibal es darles a las Maestras una maquina más potente y al día (con respecto a las XO 1 de los niños, de hace dos o tres años), pero eso me parece un gran disparate, no puede ser que la MAestra no pueda hacer pruebas sobre las XO de los Niños. La MAestra tiene que entregar su XO 1.0 al Plan Ceibal (que le fue entregada hace un par de años) y el Plan ceibal se la cambia por una Olidata. El Año pasado fueron compradas 30.000 olidata , según la pagina web institucional del Plan Ceibal. --- Una cosa que no me parece correcta es que la laptop de maestra sea diferente ala XO: tiene más capacidad ara el Diario, eso es bueno(8 Gb contra 1 Gb), pero la pantalla es diferente, el hardware es distinto, y el sugar no funciona en forma identica, por lo tanto cualquier cosa que la Maestra use en su Laptop no podrá ser repetido por los alumnos de la misma forma. NO tiene sentido querer darle una maquina más potente a las MAestras, ya que si por ejemplo la Maestra hace una actividad Etoys en su casa , usando sonidos, animación , etc etc, luego va a la clase y le dice a los niños que lo repitan, pero resulta que lo mismo en las Xo tal vez va mas lento, o no funciona igual, o se ve solo en partes Si se le quiere dar una maquina más potente a las Maestras, deberían dejar que tengan las dos: la potente y la XO normal de los Niños. En este momento se les cambia la XO por la Olidata. NOTA: cuando digo potente (hablando de la Olidata ), es en tono jocoso, espero que se entienda. La Olidata Tiene la pantalla un poco más chica que la XO , de 7 y 800x400, en cambio la XO es de 7.5 y de 1200x900 Debe ser por esa razón que ciertas actividades se ven cortadas, al igual que sucede con los emuladores. Estaría bueno que los programadores hicieran como ya hicieron con ETOYS, que lo modificaron especialmente por
