Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs - Goals for 2018 and beyond

[Sameer Verma]

Alex,
Can you post it here? https://goo.gl/forms/PV3SV8opzBnb1eqw2

Sameer

On Jan 24, 2018 12:37 PM, "Sameer Verma"  wrote:

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 8:28 AM, Alex Perez  wrote:
> Sameer,
>
> Apologies for top-posting.
>
> For 2018, I would really like to see Sugar Labs get behind and commit to
> getting the core of Sugar working fully with Python 3. I personally
believe
> this is critical to its long(er) term success, as Python 2 continues be
> deprecated. Python 2 will not be supported at all past 2020 (see
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/)
>
> I asked Walter about the feasibility of this, to which he reiplied "we
had a
> GSoC intern do a pretty thorough investigation a few years ago. Doesn't
look
> like a lot of work for Sugar itself (or the toolkit). But updating all of
> the activities will be a chore."
>
> Personally I would propose that this be done under contract to someone
with
> a very complete understanding of the differences and best coding practices
> between Python 2 and 3 (eg, a "professional"), due to the importance of
> getting this right the first time. Will that cost some money? Absolutely,
> but I suspect that it would be money well spent.
>
> I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

Hi Alex,
Thanks for the reply. I was waiting to hear from someone on this.

Instead of replying to your question (for good reasons), I'll comment
on some meta stuff.

1) We want your thoughts, but hold off for a bit. I've got the form
set up for most part. School is back in session this week, so I'm a
bit busy. We'd like your thoughts via that form. In fact, we'd like
your thoughts there, and prevent discussions about it for a bit until
we are ready.

2) The proposal is for Sugarlabs, the organization and not Sugar, the
software project. FOSS projects have their own mechanisms of managing
growth, directions etc. but my current proposal isn't about Sugar the
software project. It is about Sugarlabs, the organization (Note that
SFC is the umbrella under which we operate and utilize SFC for legal
and fiscal affairs, but SFC isn't the org. I know that we use
conflicting terms, but for the purpose of this exercise, I'm going to
ask people to focus on Sugarlabs as the unit of analysis). This is an
important distinction. That said, I'm sure we'll get several
suggestions about Sugar as opposed to Sugarlabs, but we'll take it and
separate out the best we can.

Give me a few days to get things operationalized.

thanks,
Sameer
--
Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Professor, Information Systems
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/

>
>> Greetings!
>>
>> Here is a proposal to solicit various goals towards mission of
>> Sugarlabs. I am sending this out as per my comments on the recent
>> #sugar-meeting on IRC.
>>
>> In the past, I have noticed that whenever we propose to discuss
>> various goals that this community may pursue, we tend to fail quite
>> rapidly at not arriving at a consensus. It is not that we have
>> incorrect ideas about how we think the project should proceed. We tend
>> to disagree prematurely. To remedy the situation, I am proposing that
>> we gather opinions from the community about goals and do so in a
>> manner where it remains temporarily shielded from public view. Then,
>> at a given time (say two weeks) we make all of these items public.
>> This may reveal if we have convergent ideas or if we are still very
>> divergent. Either is okay.
>>
>> Next, we would try to merge similar items into tangible goals with a
>> specific time frame. Depending on who the champions are for a specific
>> goal and its objectives, these people may then band together into an
>> ad-hoc group and pursue said goals.
>>
>> The time line for this project is relatively short. I propose that we
>> collect ideas for two weeks. At the end of two weeks, we would then
>> make the items public, and solicit more ideas for a third week. At the
>> end of the third week, we would then try to collate similar responses
>> into clusters of tangible goals. From there on, each set of goals may
>> be pursued independently, depending on its sponsors, champions,
>> supporters and participants.
>>
>> If this sounds like something that will help us move forward, I am
>> ready to set this in motion. I have already discussed this with
>> Hillary Naylor, who is an active participant in our OLPC-SF group.
>> When it's time to collate responses, I may solicit some more help from
>> some of you.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Sameer
>> --
>> Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
>> Professor, Information Systems
>> San Francisco State University
>> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs - Goals for 2018 and beyond

[Sameer Verma]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 8:28 AM, Alex Perez  wrote:
> Sameer,
>
> Apologies for top-posting.
>
> For 2018, I would really like to see Sugar Labs get behind and commit to
> getting the core of Sugar working fully with Python 3. I personally believe
> this is critical to its long(er) term success, as Python 2 continues be
> deprecated. Python 2 will not be supported at all past 2020 (see
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/)
>
> I asked Walter about the feasibility of this, to which he reiplied "we had a
> GSoC intern do a pretty thorough investigation a few years ago. Doesn't look
> like a lot of work for Sugar itself (or the toolkit). But updating all of
> the activities will be a chore."
>
> Personally I would propose that this be done under contract to someone with
> a very complete understanding of the differences and best coding practices
> between Python 2 and 3 (eg, a "professional"), due to the importance of
> getting this right the first time. Will that cost some money? Absolutely,
> but I suspect that it would be money well spent.
>
> I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

Hi Alex,
Thanks for the reply. I was waiting to hear from someone on this.

Instead of replying to your question (for good reasons), I'll comment
on some meta stuff.

1) We want your thoughts, but hold off for a bit. I've got the form
set up for most part. School is back in session this week, so I'm a
bit busy. We'd like your thoughts via that form. In fact, we'd like
your thoughts there, and prevent discussions about it for a bit until
we are ready.

2) The proposal is for Sugarlabs, the organization and not Sugar, the
software project. FOSS projects have their own mechanisms of managing
growth, directions etc. but my current proposal isn't about Sugar the
software project. It is about Sugarlabs, the organization (Note that
SFC is the umbrella under which we operate and utilize SFC for legal
and fiscal affairs, but SFC isn't the org. I know that we use
conflicting terms, but for the purpose of this exercise, I'm going to
ask people to focus on Sugarlabs as the unit of analysis). This is an
important distinction. That said, I'm sure we'll get several
suggestions about Sugar as opposed to Sugarlabs, but we'll take it and
separate out the best we can.

Give me a few days to get things operationalized.

thanks,
Sameer
-- 
Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Professor, Information Systems
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/

>
>> Greetings!
>>
>> Here is a proposal to solicit various goals towards mission of
>> Sugarlabs. I am sending this out as per my comments on the recent
>> #sugar-meeting on IRC.
>>
>> In the past, I have noticed that whenever we propose to discuss
>> various goals that this community may pursue, we tend to fail quite
>> rapidly at not arriving at a consensus. It is not that we have
>> incorrect ideas about how we think the project should proceed. We tend
>> to disagree prematurely. To remedy the situation, I am proposing that
>> we gather opinions from the community about goals and do so in a
>> manner where it remains temporarily shielded from public view. Then,
>> at a given time (say two weeks) we make all of these items public.
>> This may reveal if we have convergent ideas or if we are still very
>> divergent. Either is okay.
>>
>> Next, we would try to merge similar items into tangible goals with a
>> specific time frame. Depending on who the champions are for a specific
>> goal and its objectives, these people may then band together into an
>> ad-hoc group and pursue said goals.
>>
>> The time line for this project is relatively short. I propose that we
>> collect ideas for two weeks. At the end of two weeks, we would then
>> make the items public, and solicit more ideas for a third week. At the
>> end of the third week, we would then try to collate similar responses
>> into clusters of tangible goals. From there on, each set of goals may
>> be pursued independently, depending on its sponsors, champions,
>> supporters and participants.
>>
>> If this sounds like something that will help us move forward, I am
>> ready to set this in motion. I have already discussed this with
>> Hillary Naylor, who is an active participant in our OLPC-SF group.
>> When it's time to collate responses, I may solicit some more help from
>> some of you.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Sameer
>> --
>> Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
>> Professor, Information Systems
>> San Francisco State University
>> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs - Goals for 2018 and beyond

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

I agree with the general idea - this is going to only become more painful
the longer it is left undone, and if not done, will mean the end of the
python codebase. That might be acceptable, given the maturation of
Sugarizer.

Perhaps its worth having the Sugar core and toolkit part (vs the Sugarizer
part) of GSOC focus on this over the summer, and then use the contractor to
review, validate and complete the work.

And then have in mind that the following GCI and GSOC be focused on the
python3'ization of the key activities.


On 24 January 2018 at 11:28, Alex Perez  wrote:

> Sameer,
>
> Apologies for top-posting.
>
> For 2018, I would really like to see Sugar Labs get behind and commit to
> getting the core of Sugar working fully with Python 3. I personally believe
> this is critical to its long(er) term success, as Python 2 continues be
> deprecated. Python 2 will not be supported at all past 2020 (see
> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/)
>
> I asked Walter about the feasibility of this, to which he reiplied "we had
> a GSoC intern do a pretty thorough investigation a few years ago. Doesn't
> look like a lot of work for Sugar itself (or the toolkit). But updating all
> of the activities will be a chore."
>
> Personally I would propose that this be done under contract to someone
> with a very complete understanding of the differences and best coding
> practices between Python 2 and 3 (eg, a "professional"), due to the
> importance of getting this right the first time. Will that cost some money?
> Absolutely, but I suspect that it would be money well spent.
>
> I would appreciate your thoughts on this.
>
> Greetings!
>>
>> Here is a proposal to solicit various goals towards mission of
>> Sugarlabs. I am sending this out as per my comments on the recent
>> #sugar-meeting on IRC.
>>
>> In the past, I have noticed that whenever we propose to discuss
>> various goals that this community may pursue, we tend to fail quite
>> rapidly at not arriving at a consensus. It is not that we have
>> incorrect ideas about how we think the project should proceed. We tend
>> to disagree prematurely. To remedy the situation, I am proposing that
>> we gather opinions from the community about goals and do so in a
>> manner where it remains temporarily shielded from public view. Then,
>> at a given time (say two weeks) we make all of these items public.
>> This may reveal if we have convergent ideas or if we are still very
>> divergent. Either is okay.
>>
>> Next, we would try to merge similar items into tangible goals with a
>> specific time frame. Depending on who the champions are for a specific
>> goal and its objectives, these people may then band together into an
>> ad-hoc group and pursue said goals.
>>
>> The time line for this project is relatively short. I propose that we
>> collect ideas for two weeks. At the end of two weeks, we would then
>> make the items public, and solicit more ideas for a third week. At the
>> end of the third week, we would then try to collate similar responses
>> into clusters of tangible goals. From there on, each set of goals may
>> be pursued independently, depending on its sponsors, champions,
>> supporters and participants.
>>
>> If this sounds like something that will help us move forward, I am
>> ready to set this in motion. I have already discussed this with
>> Hillary Naylor, who is an active participant in our OLPC-SF group.
>> When it's time to collate responses, I may solicit some more help from
>> some of you.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Sameer
>> --
>> Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
>> Professor, Information Systems
>> San Francisco State University
>> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
>>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep




-- 
Cheers
Dave
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs - Goals for 2018 and beyond

[Alex Perez]

Sameer,

Apologies for top-posting.

For 2018, I would really like to see Sugar Labs get behind and commit to 
getting the core of Sugar working fully with Python 3. I personally 
believe this is critical to its long(er) term success, as Python 2 
continues be deprecated. Python 2 will not be supported at all past 2020 
(see https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/)


I asked Walter about the feasibility of this, to which he reiplied "we 
had a GSoC intern do a pretty thorough investigation a few years ago. 
Doesn't look like a lot of work for Sugar itself (or the toolkit). But 
updating all of the activities will be a chore."


Personally I would propose that this be done under contract to someone 
with a very complete understanding of the differences and best coding 
practices between Python 2 and 3 (eg, a "professional"), due to the 
importance of getting this right the first time. Will that cost some 
money? Absolutely, but I suspect that it would be money well spent.


I would appreciate your thoughts on this.


Greetings!

Here is a proposal to solicit various goals towards mission of
Sugarlabs. I am sending this out as per my comments on the recent
#sugar-meeting on IRC.

In the past, I have noticed that whenever we propose to discuss
various goals that this community may pursue, we tend to fail quite
rapidly at not arriving at a consensus. It is not that we have
incorrect ideas about how we think the project should proceed. We tend
to disagree prematurely. To remedy the situation, I am proposing that
we gather opinions from the community about goals and do so in a
manner where it remains temporarily shielded from public view. Then,
at a given time (say two weeks) we make all of these items public.
This may reveal if we have convergent ideas or if we are still very
divergent. Either is okay.

Next, we would try to merge similar items into tangible goals with a
specific time frame. Depending on who the champions are for a specific
goal and its objectives, these people may then band together into an
ad-hoc group and pursue said goals.

The time line for this project is relatively short. I propose that we
collect ideas for two weeks. At the end of two weeks, we would then
make the items public, and solicit more ideas for a third week. At the
end of the third week, we would then try to collate similar responses
into clusters of tangible goals. From there on, each set of goals may
be pursued independently, depending on its sponsors, champions,
supporters and participants.

If this sounds like something that will help us move forward, I am
ready to set this in motion. I have already discussed this with
Hillary Naylor, who is an active participant in our OLPC-SF group.
When it's time to collate responses, I may solicit some more help from
some of you.

cheers,
Sameer
--
Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Professor, Information Systems
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep