Re: [IAEP] yet another corrected screenshot image!
Hi Wade--your proposal looks very interesting. Let's discuss on the call on March 21st, if you are able to join us then (at 10am EST). Christian On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Wade Brainerd wrote: > Hey all, > > I'd like to take the opportunity to (as usual) plug my alternate home > view design. > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Wade/Ideas/Activity_Management > > If people feel that it would be worth exploring I'd be happy to flesh > the design out further. > > Unfortunately it's unlikely that I'll be able to make the Saturday > chat, but I can try if there is real interest. > > Regards, > Wade > > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt > wrote: >> I think it would be a good idea to call a design meeting to hash out >> the pros and cons of both views, freeform and ring (ring working only >> in conjunction with favorites, which we know is it's current >> limitation). >> >> We could also discuss a possible third view, but then I believe it is >> important that it feels related to the UI design as a whole (both >> freeform and ring do, bearing similarity to the organization in >> neighborhood and groups). Maybe there are solutions to make ring more >> scalable, as Sean was suggesting? >> >> Unfortunately Eben is traveling this weekend, so let's shoot for the >> following. >> >> Are all interested parties able to convene on #sugar-meeting at 10am >> EST/13.00 UTC on Saturday March 21 for an initial discussion where we >> discuss the benefits of either view and will attempt to make a >> decision? Please come prepared with your thoughts, and as much >> research as you are able to obtain from actual observations with >> children! >> >> >> Christian >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Walter Bender >> wrote: >>> I haven't studied it in any scientific way, but I have never seen >>> anyone use freeform in the field. I can also make a strong case for >>> its inappropriateness in the classroom and the additional support >>> overhead. For simplicity-sake, if for no other reason, we should drop >>> it. >>> >>> That said, I cannot argue with your observation that an overloaded >>> ring is problematic as well. For 0.86, we should consider some of >>> spiral options, such as the sunflower, which are much more space >>> efficient. At the same time, I think the real answer lies in better >>> use the idea that groups of activities can be selected for the ring: a >>> teacher might say to the child, this week, I want everyone to put >>> Browse, Write, and Turrtle Art on their desktops. At home, a different >>> collection might be available. So maybe we can explore the notion of >>> collections rather than layouts? >>> >>> -walter >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt >>> wrote: I fully understand your confusion, this issue has been going back and forth for too long. We should probably talk this over more thoroughly before deciding either way. Nicholas had (and I'm assuming still has) very strong reservations about the ring, which caused us to reconsider it, but at the time it was too late to change and it made it into the build. As you know I was initially in favor of the ring (which I think has a strong iconic presence), but when I began seeing screenshots of overloaded rings it seemed like the favorites model perhaps wasn't working as well as we had hoped. This is a case where it would really help to do observations and see how children are using the Home view, and which of the two views they prefer using... Or do we have any findings and observations we can already draw from? For now, the question remains which view (freeform/ring) we use to represent Sugar. Or perhaps at least in the interim it would make sense to avoid Home altogether and use the Neighborhood view as the "signature" shot? I agree that we would ideally keep either the ring or freeform, but not both, for simplicity... More discussion ahead, I sense. Christian On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt > wrote: >> Hi Sean >> >> >> We are currently debating moving to freeform view as the default >> (maybe even the only) view in Home. To be on the safe side, should we >> use that view here instead, seeing as it already exists in the UI? >> CC'ing Walter for his thoughts as well... >> > > Boy am I ever confused. I thought (and hoped) that we were going to > get rid of the freeform view, not the ring view. > > -walter > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > -- anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com 917/ 575 0013 >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Walter Bender >>> Sugar Labs >>> http://www.s
Re: [IAEP] yet another corrected screenshot image!
Hey all, I'd like to take the opportunity to (as usual) plug my alternate home view design. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Wade/Ideas/Activity_Management If people feel that it would be worth exploring I'd be happy to flesh the design out further. Unfortunately it's unlikely that I'll be able to make the Saturday chat, but I can try if there is real interest. Regards, Wade On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote: > I think it would be a good idea to call a design meeting to hash out > the pros and cons of both views, freeform and ring (ring working only > in conjunction with favorites, which we know is it's current > limitation). > > We could also discuss a possible third view, but then I believe it is > important that it feels related to the UI design as a whole (both > freeform and ring do, bearing similarity to the organization in > neighborhood and groups). Maybe there are solutions to make ring more > scalable, as Sean was suggesting? > > Unfortunately Eben is traveling this weekend, so let's shoot for the > following. > > Are all interested parties able to convene on #sugar-meeting at 10am > EST/13.00 UTC on Saturday March 21 for an initial discussion where we > discuss the benefits of either view and will attempt to make a > decision? Please come prepared with your thoughts, and as much > research as you are able to obtain from actual observations with > children! > > > Christian > > > On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Walter Bender > wrote: >> I haven't studied it in any scientific way, but I have never seen >> anyone use freeform in the field. I can also make a strong case for >> its inappropriateness in the classroom and the additional support >> overhead. For simplicity-sake, if for no other reason, we should drop >> it. >> >> That said, I cannot argue with your observation that an overloaded >> ring is problematic as well. For 0.86, we should consider some of >> spiral options, such as the sunflower, which are much more space >> efficient. At the same time, I think the real answer lies in better >> use the idea that groups of activities can be selected for the ring: a >> teacher might say to the child, this week, I want everyone to put >> Browse, Write, and Turrtle Art on their desktops. At home, a different >> collection might be available. So maybe we can explore the notion of >> collections rather than layouts? >> >> -walter >> >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt >> wrote: >>> I fully understand your confusion, this issue has been going back and >>> forth for too long. >>> >>> We should probably talk this over more thoroughly before deciding >>> either way. Nicholas had (and I'm assuming still has) very strong >>> reservations about the ring, which caused us to reconsider it, but at >>> the time it was too late to change and it made it into the build. As >>> you know I was initially in favor of the ring (which I think has a >>> strong iconic presence), but when I began seeing screenshots of >>> overloaded rings it seemed like the favorites model perhaps wasn't >>> working as well as we had hoped. >>> >>> This is a case where it would really help to do observations and see >>> how children are using the Home view, and which of the two views they >>> prefer using... Or do we have any findings and observations we can >>> already draw from? >>> >>> For now, the question remains which view (freeform/ring) we use to >>> represent Sugar. Or perhaps at least in the interim it would make >>> sense to avoid Home altogether and use the Neighborhood view as the >>> "signature" shot? >>> >>> I agree that we would ideally keep either the ring or freeform, but >>> not both, for simplicity... >>> >>> More discussion ahead, I sense. >>> >>> >>> Christian >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Walter Bender >>> wrote: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote: > Hi Sean > > > We are currently debating moving to freeform view as the default > (maybe even the only) view in Home. To be on the safe side, should we > use that view here instead, seeing as it already exists in the UI? > CC'ing Walter for his thoughts as well... > Boy am I ever confused. I thought (and hoped) that we were going to get rid of the freeform view, not the ring view. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com >>> >>> http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com >>> >>> 917/ 575 0013 >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Walter Bender >> Sugar Labs >> http://www.sugarlabs.org >> > > > > -- > anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com > > http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com > > 917/ 575 0013 > ___ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > ___
Re: [IAEP] yet another corrected screenshot image!
I think it would be a good idea to call a design meeting to hash out the pros and cons of both views, freeform and ring (ring working only in conjunction with favorites, which we know is it's current limitation). We could also discuss a possible third view, but then I believe it is important that it feels related to the UI design as a whole (both freeform and ring do, bearing similarity to the organization in neighborhood and groups). Maybe there are solutions to make ring more scalable, as Sean was suggesting? Unfortunately Eben is traveling this weekend, so let's shoot for the following. Are all interested parties able to convene on #sugar-meeting at 10am EST/13.00 UTC on Saturday March 21 for an initial discussion where we discuss the benefits of either view and will attempt to make a decision? Please come prepared with your thoughts, and as much research as you are able to obtain from actual observations with children! Christian On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > I haven't studied it in any scientific way, but I have never seen > anyone use freeform in the field. I can also make a strong case for > its inappropriateness in the classroom and the additional support > overhead. For simplicity-sake, if for no other reason, we should drop > it. > > That said, I cannot argue with your observation that an overloaded > ring is problematic as well. For 0.86, we should consider some of > spiral options, such as the sunflower, which are much more space > efficient. At the same time, I think the real answer lies in better > use the idea that groups of activities can be selected for the ring: a > teacher might say to the child, this week, I want everyone to put > Browse, Write, and Turrtle Art on their desktops. At home, a different > collection might be available. So maybe we can explore the notion of > collections rather than layouts? > > -walter > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt > wrote: >> I fully understand your confusion, this issue has been going back and >> forth for too long. >> >> We should probably talk this over more thoroughly before deciding >> either way. Nicholas had (and I'm assuming still has) very strong >> reservations about the ring, which caused us to reconsider it, but at >> the time it was too late to change and it made it into the build. As >> you know I was initially in favor of the ring (which I think has a >> strong iconic presence), but when I began seeing screenshots of >> overloaded rings it seemed like the favorites model perhaps wasn't >> working as well as we had hoped. >> >> This is a case where it would really help to do observations and see >> how children are using the Home view, and which of the two views they >> prefer using... Or do we have any findings and observations we can >> already draw from? >> >> For now, the question remains which view (freeform/ring) we use to >> represent Sugar. Or perhaps at least in the interim it would make >> sense to avoid Home altogether and use the Neighborhood view as the >> "signature" shot? >> >> I agree that we would ideally keep either the ring or freeform, but >> not both, for simplicity... >> >> More discussion ahead, I sense. >> >> >> Christian >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Walter Bender >> wrote: >>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt >>> wrote: Hi Sean We are currently debating moving to freeform view as the default (maybe even the only) view in Home. To be on the safe side, should we use that view here instead, seeing as it already exists in the UI? CC'ing Walter for his thoughts as well... >>> >>> Boy am I ever confused. I thought (and hoped) that we were going to >>> get rid of the freeform view, not the ring view. >>> >>> -walter >>> >>> -- >>> Walter Bender >>> Sugar Labs >>> http://www.sugarlabs.org >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com >> >> http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com >> >> 917/ 575 0013 >> > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > -- anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com 917/ 575 0013 ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] yet another corrected screenshot image!
I haven't studied it in any scientific way, but I have never seen anyone use freeform in the field. I can also make a strong case for its inappropriateness in the classroom and the additional support overhead. For simplicity-sake, if for no other reason, we should drop it. That said, I cannot argue with your observation that an overloaded ring is problematic as well. For 0.86, we should consider some of spiral options, such as the sunflower, which are much more space efficient. At the same time, I think the real answer lies in better use the idea that groups of activities can be selected for the ring: a teacher might say to the child, this week, I want everyone to put Browse, Write, and Turrtle Art on their desktops. At home, a different collection might be available. So maybe we can explore the notion of collections rather than layouts? -walter On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote: > I fully understand your confusion, this issue has been going back and > forth for too long. > > We should probably talk this over more thoroughly before deciding > either way. Nicholas had (and I'm assuming still has) very strong > reservations about the ring, which caused us to reconsider it, but at > the time it was too late to change and it made it into the build. As > you know I was initially in favor of the ring (which I think has a > strong iconic presence), but when I began seeing screenshots of > overloaded rings it seemed like the favorites model perhaps wasn't > working as well as we had hoped. > > This is a case where it would really help to do observations and see > how children are using the Home view, and which of the two views they > prefer using... Or do we have any findings and observations we can > already draw from? > > For now, the question remains which view (freeform/ring) we use to > represent Sugar. Or perhaps at least in the interim it would make > sense to avoid Home altogether and use the Neighborhood view as the > "signature" shot? > > I agree that we would ideally keep either the ring or freeform, but > not both, for simplicity... > > More discussion ahead, I sense. > > > Christian > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Walter Bender > wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:22 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt >> wrote: >>> Hi Sean >>> >>> >>> We are currently debating moving to freeform view as the default >>> (maybe even the only) view in Home. To be on the safe side, should we >>> use that view here instead, seeing as it already exists in the UI? >>> CC'ing Walter for his thoughts as well... >>> >> >> Boy am I ever confused. I thought (and hoped) that we were going to >> get rid of the freeform view, not the ring view. >> >> -walter >> >> -- >> Walter Bender >> Sugar Labs >> http://www.sugarlabs.org >> > > > > -- > anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com > > http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com > > 917/ 575 0013 > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
