Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap
2013/11/6 Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com: On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote: On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I think Sugar Labs needs to express a clear, realistic technology roadmap. For example, we have been talking a lot about Sugar on Android, mixing a lot of different things under that name. We need to clarify what that really is. Here are my thoughts, inspired by the oversight board meeting thread. * Wait and see what happens with the XO. Support existing deployments by producing images with the most recent Sugar release. Stick to a Fedora 18 base system, the work to upgrade is highly non trivial. Provide custom rpms for the sugar modules and a few dependencies, most importantly Webkit, which is required by web activities. In the short term, we don't need backport Webkit2 to F18. In the long term, we need find a solution to move to a newer Fedora in the XOs, maybe 20 or 21. * Ensure web activities run well in web browsers. This will cover Android and other non-Linux systems. * Reuse the work done by OLPC on Fedora to get Sugar running nicely on one or two ARM boards (Beagle board black and Cubox-i seems to be the best we could pick at the moment). Talk to the manufacturers to get publicity on the images we produce and devices for the developers. Maybe not only ARM hardware. At least in South America, many places are using Classmates in educative projects. I know talks between OLPC and Intel were difficult in the past, but is a different world now. Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB. Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box. In Uruguay for example. -- .. manuq .. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap
Yes, but we never provided a easy way to install in classmates, or tried to approach hardware manufactures to propose them to invest on that. Gonzalo On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Manuel Quiñones ma...@laptop.org wrote: 2013/11/6 Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com: On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote: On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I think Sugar Labs needs to express a clear, realistic technology roadmap. For example, we have been talking a lot about Sugar on Android, mixing a lot of different things under that name. We need to clarify what that really is. Here are my thoughts, inspired by the oversight board meeting thread. * Wait and see what happens with the XO. Support existing deployments by producing images with the most recent Sugar release. Stick to a Fedora 18 base system, the work to upgrade is highly non trivial. Provide custom rpms for the sugar modules and a few dependencies, most importantly Webkit, which is required by web activities. In the short term, we don't need backport Webkit2 to F18. In the long term, we need find a solution to move to a newer Fedora in the XOs, maybe 20 or 21. * Ensure web activities run well in web browsers. This will cover Android and other non-Linux systems. * Reuse the work done by OLPC on Fedora to get Sugar running nicely on one or two ARM boards (Beagle board black and Cubox-i seems to be the best we could pick at the moment). Talk to the manufacturers to get publicity on the images we produce and devices for the developers. Maybe not only ARM hardware. At least in South America, many places are using Classmates in educative projects. I know talks between OLPC and Intel were difficult in the past, but is a different world now. Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB. Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box. In Uruguay for example. -- .. manuq .. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap
On 6 November 2013 16:20, Manuel Quiñones ma...@laptop.org wrote: Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB. Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box. In Uruguay for example. You mean people are using them in Uruguay deployments? Which distro? ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap
2013/11/6 Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com: On 6 November 2013 16:20, Manuel Quiñones ma...@laptop.org wrote: Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB. Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box. In Uruguay for example. You mean people are using them in Uruguay deployments? Which distro? I don't know the details. Maybe Flavio knows. -- .. manuq .. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote: Clock, Speak, and part of Memorize use gstreamer just to do text to speech. I would like to have tts provided by Sugar as a service, probably using dbus and a api in sugar-toolkit-gtk3. That would simplify these activities and solve other problems we have, like by example the keep the language names translated and updated in every place. I've had a few false starts trying to port Measure to GST 1.0. Once I get that working, Turtle Art will follow (that is why I still haven't released the GTK 3 version of Turtle Art). -walter Gonzalo On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: I forgot a note about toolkits * The gtk2 toolkit is deprecated and frozen but it will be supported as long as possible (at some point I guess some dependencies might start disappearing from distributions, making that problematic). The gtk3 toolkit is supported, backward API compatibility is guaranteed, it's not going to be deprecated in the foreseable future. The web toolkit is experimental, we provide no API guarantee yet, when it's mature it will be the preferred way to write activities (because of cross platform compatibility). The other one to add to this list is gstreamer. At the moment we have some support for gstreamer 1.0 and some (mostly gtk2) Activities still using gstreamer 0.10. The 0.10 release will be disappearing sooner rather than later (I wouldn't be surprised if this happened in F-21/F-22 time frame). I would love to see us be able to remove the dependency on two gst stacks, at the moment at least Clock, Speak, Record and Memorise need to be converted from gstreamer-python / gst 0.10 to gst 1.0 with Introspection support, whether this requires migration to gtk3 at the same time is unknown to me. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap
/On 06/11/2013 13:31, Daniel Narvaez wrote:// //You mean people are using them in Uruguay deployments? Which distro?/ -- In Uruguay we have Classmates II (called Magallanes) in some High Schools, that comes with Ubuntu 10.01.3 and Sugar Sweets Distribution (0.94.1), you can download the image here http://www.ceibal.edu.uy/Articulos/Paginas/%C2%BFC%C3%B3mo%20flasheo%20mi%20Magallanes%20MG2%20Ubuntu_.aspx. (hardware http://www.ceibal.edu.uy/Articulos/Paginas/hardware-magallanes-3.aspx and Software http://www.ceibal.edu.uy/Articulos/Paginas/software-magallanes.aspx specifications). In other High schools the children have XO 1.5, 1.75 or 4.0, and in some kindergardens and schools (1st grade) they have OLPC tablets http://www.ceibal.edu.uy/Articulos/Paginas/informacion-de-la-tablet.aspx with Android. By the way: in High Schools there are very few people who uses Sugar, they normally use the Gnome interface, as in primary School, except for a part of the children that still have the XO 1.0 without Gnome. Paolo Benini Montevideo ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap
Cool stuff. As for Fedora it would be great to have builds with the latest sugar (stable and unstable) releases. I'm not saying to ship those to deployments of course, but they would help upstream development, marketing and testing... And they would help AC to make the transition to the next sugar release smoother. On 7 November 2013 02:05, David Farning dfarn...@activitycentral.comwrote: Please see the link at the bottom left of http://dextrose.ac/platform/ for the Sugar on Ubuntu images which Activity Central and Plan Ceibal are jointly developing. For stability it is based on Ubuntu 12.04 and Sugar .98. The testing is done on classmate to meet Plan Ceibal's specifications. I should work equally well on any machine that boots Ubuntu. It is currently is small scale testing by a couple hundred teachers. When the image meets Ceibal's quality standards the pilot will scale to approximately 10,000 units for wider testing. For more information, I have CC Anish Mangal, the project owner (agile speak) and Ruben Rodriguez the lead developer. Ruben has the strongest back ground on the technical issues involved in the port. Anish has the deepest understanding of timelines and objectives. On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 November 2013 16:20, Manuel Quiñones ma...@laptop.org wrote: Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB. Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box. In Uruguay for example. You mean people are using them in Uruguay deployments? Which distro? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com -- Daniel Narvaez ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Tech roadmap
I agree :) Right now, we are sitting back and seeing what roll OLPC-Australia is going to play in the ecosystem. The One Education distribution out of Australia is a combination of Dextrose, Sugar .100 and some custom patches. My semi-informed guess is that Walter and Rangan ( https://www.laptop.org.au/about ) are going to position One Education as the successor to OLPC-OS. I hope that we will learn more at about their plans at basecamp. ( http://olpcbasecamp.blogspot.com/ ) This would take care or the leading edge on Fedora. On the Ubuntu side we have a bit of a challenge balancing bleeding edge and stability. Sugar and Fedora tend to run a bit ahead of Debian and Ubuntu in library versions. It take a significant amount of effort to backport the necessary libraries to Ubuntu LTS. For this release we agreed that the proper balance of innovation and stability was Sugar .98 on Ubuntu 12.04. The next decision point will be which version of Sugar to use for the 14.04 release due in the second quarter of 2014. On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Cool stuff. As for Fedora it would be great to have builds with the latest sugar (stable and unstable) releases. I'm not saying to ship those to deployments of course, but they would help upstream development, marketing and testing... And they would help AC to make the transition to the next sugar release smoother. On 7 November 2013 02:05, David Farning dfarn...@activitycentral.com wrote: Please see the link at the bottom left of http://dextrose.ac/platform/ for the Sugar on Ubuntu images which Activity Central and Plan Ceibal are jointly developing. For stability it is based on Ubuntu 12.04 and Sugar .98. The testing is done on classmate to meet Plan Ceibal's specifications. I should work equally well on any machine that boots Ubuntu. It is currently is small scale testing by a couple hundred teachers. When the image meets Ceibal's quality standards the pilot will scale to approximately 10,000 units for wider testing. For more information, I have CC Anish Mangal, the project owner (agile speak) and Ruben Rodriguez the lead developer. Ruben has the strongest back ground on the technical issues involved in the port. Anish has the deepest understanding of timelines and objectives. On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 November 2013 16:20, Manuel Quiñones ma...@laptop.org wrote: Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB. Yep. Sugar is running in classmates out of the box. In Uruguay for example. You mean people are using them in Uruguay deployments? Which distro? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com -- Daniel Narvaez -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
