Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows
Wade Brainerd wrote: On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Dave Bauer dave.ba...@gmail.com wrote: Actually, you can create a .vmdk from .img using the QEMU tools. It's just that .vmdk is much more widely supported that .img so it would save a conversion step for most VM users. I agree that we should be providing 1 click solutions *in addition* to providing .vmdk files for people who already use VMs regularly. Right, VMDK is not easily reusable though, for Parallels you have to perform a few steps to reuse it. One click solution is the goal of course. QEMU really isn't that solution unless you can use acceleration. The speed is pretty much unusable otherwise, and that is really only useful for testing if you are very patient. Anyone who needs a 1-click installer also would expect reasonable performance. I haven't found an easy way to get QEMU working with acceleration on OS X. I think we are working towards a solution, just not as quickly as we would like. Dave I brought up VMware Virtual Appliances as an option at one point, has anyone tried creating one of those? I'm not sure how close to one click they are though. VirtualBox appears to have the beginnings of some appliance support as well. Best, Wade Okay folks, sorry for the late reply, as I just came across this thread (I was a bit behind my e-mail). So let me explain some things: There are the appliance-tools (www.thincrust.net) available which do in fact exactly the thing which has been discussed here. You can even specify a output file type, so that you'd get vmdk, raw or other files. Sounds cool, heh? :) Well, what I've done now is that I've taken our kickstart files and made one for the appliance creation up out of them. It's also in the soas GIT repo. Then I worked on getting appliance-tools to work on our build systems (thanks erikos here!) and it now creates flawlessly such a .vmdk file. I already gave it a try and it boots, but doesn't come up with the Sugar desktop, but fails when trying to log in. A good idea would be probably to have these images built together with the other snapshots. Cheers, --Sebastian ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows
On Mar 15, 2009, at 6:21 AM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.com wrote: Wade Brainerd wrote: On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Dave Bauer dave.ba...@gmail.com wrote: Actually, you can create a .vmdk from .img using the QEMU tools. It's just that .vmdk is much more widely supported that .img so it would save a conversion step for most VM users. I agree that we should be providing 1 click solutions *in addition* to providing .vmdk files for people who already use VMs regularly. Right, VMDK is not easily reusable though, for Parallels you have to perform a few steps to reuse it. One click solution is the goal of course. QEMU really isn't that solution unless you can use acceleration. The speed is pretty much unusable otherwise, and that is really only useful for testing if you are very patient. Anyone who needs a 1-click installer also would expect reasonable performance. I haven't found an easy way to get QEMU working with acceleration on OS X. I think we are working towards a solution, just not as quickly as we would like. Dave I brought up VMware Virtual Appliances as an option at one point, has anyone tried creating one of those? I'm not sure how close to one click they are though. VirtualBox appears to have the beginnings of some appliance support as well. Best, Wade Okay folks, sorry for the late reply, as I just came across this thread (I was a bit behind my e-mail). So let me explain some things: There are the appliance-tools (www.thincrust.net) available which do in fact exactly the thing which has been discussed here. You can even specify a output file type, so that you'd get vmdk, raw or other files. Sounds cool, heh? :) Well, what I've done now is that I've taken our kickstart files and made one for the appliance creation up out of them. It's also in the soas GIT repo. Then I worked on getting appliance-tools to work on our build systems (thanks erikos here!) and it now creates flawlessly such a .vmdk file. I already gave it a try and it boots, but doesn't come up with the Sugar desktop, but fails when trying to log in. A good idea would be probably to have these images built together with the other snapshots. Cheers, --Sebastian Awesome, nice work Sebastian! I'll check these out on Monday if you send me a link. Best, Wade ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows
On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 5:21 AM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.com wrote: Wade Brainerd wrote: On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Dave Bauer dave.ba...@gmail.com wrote: Actually, you can create a .vmdk from .img using the QEMU tools. It's just that .vmdk is much more widely supported that .img so it would save a conversion step for most VM users. I agree that we should be providing 1 click solutions *in addition* to providing .vmdk files for people who already use VMs regularly. Right, VMDK is not easily reusable though, for Parallels you have to perform a few steps to reuse it. One click solution is the goal of course. QEMU really isn't that solution unless you can use acceleration. The speed is pretty much unusable otherwise, and that is really only useful for testing if you are very patient. Anyone who needs a 1-click installer also would expect reasonable performance. I haven't found an easy way to get QEMU working with acceleration on OS X. I think we are working towards a solution, just not as quickly as we would like. Dave I brought up VMware Virtual Appliances as an option at one point, has anyone tried creating one of those? I'm not sure how close to one click they are though. VirtualBox appears to have the beginnings of some appliance support as well. Best, Wade Okay folks, sorry for the late reply, as I just came across this thread (I was a bit behind my e-mail). So let me explain some things: There are the appliance-tools (www.thincrust.net) available which do in fact exactly the thing which has been discussed here. You can even specify a output file type, so that you'd get vmdk, raw or other files. Sounds cool, heh? :) Well, what I've done now is that I've taken our kickstart files and made one for the appliance creation up out of them. It's also in the soas GIT repo. Then I worked on getting appliance-tools to work on our build systems (thanks erikos here!) and it now creates flawlessly such a .vmdk file. I already gave it a try and it boots, but doesn't come up with the Sugar desktop, but fails when trying to log in. A good idea would be probably to have these images built together with the other snapshots. Maybe, you could get Sasche to set something to create automatic daily builds on the Sugar Labs build farm:) david Cheers, --Sebastian ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Dave Bauer dave.ba...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Luke Faraone l...@faraone.cc wrote: Virtualbox is Free and potentially similar. Also, coLinux requires Administrator privileges to run, so students on school computers probably can't use it.[1] Don't VMs on Windows require admin privileges to install and/or run (I honestly don't know)? I presume that we can package up the emulator as just some .exe on a USB stick, to be run without needing installation. VirtualBox and VMWare all need drivers in the Windows kernel, so you are limitted to amazingly slow quemu. QEMU is plenty fast when you install the acceleration service. What it lacks is a simple installer. Finally, we cannot legally redistribute VMware and the interesting parts of VirtualBox like USB and rdesktop support. We can redistribute VMware player as part of a Virtual Appliance. But really, all we need to be doing is producing .vmdk files (virtual disk images) for our SoaS snapshots. These files can be loaded in any of VMware, VirtualBox and Parallels, and can be used with QEMU after a command line conversion step. You need the VMware, VirtualBox, or Parallels specifc extensions and drivers, so we really end up needing one image for each platform to make this easy for people to use. Hackers can of course, always customize the VMDK. I just tried coverting the VirtualBox VDI and learned that Parallels can't just load the image, it needs the VMware or VirtualBox VM configuration file that goes with the VM to do the import. I am sure its possible, but it's a little trickier than it looks. Ok, I was able to take the Virtualbox VM and conver it to run in Parallels, but its not easy and you definitely need to install the Parallels Tools. I also have created a new Parallels native VM based on SoaS slightly modifying the instructions to build the VM on Virtualbox. Dave Dave Once we have a stream of .vmdk files coming, we can move on to creating Virtual Appliances or other easier to use solutions. Check out http://dev.laptop.org/~wadeb/OLPC-XO-Software-8.2.0-Setup.exehttp://dev.laptop.org/%7Ewadeb/OLPC-XO-Software-8.2.0-Setup.exe for an example of a QEMU-based installer for Windows. This uses OLPC's 8.2.0 release but could be easily retargeted at SoaS. Cheers, Wade ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com http://www.solutiongrove.com -- Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com http://www.solutiongrove.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Luke Faraone l...@faraone.cc wrote: Virtualbox is Free and potentially similar. Also, coLinux requires Administrator privileges to run, so students on school computers probably can't use it.[1] Don't VMs on Windows require admin privileges to install and/or run (I honestly don't know)? I presume that we can package up the emulator as just some .exe on a USB stick, to be run without needing installation. VirtualBox and VMWare all need drivers in the Windows kernel, so you are limitted to amazingly slow quemu. QEMU is plenty fast when you install the acceleration service. What it lacks is a simple installer. Finally, we cannot legally redistribute VMware and the interesting parts of VirtualBox like USB and rdesktop support. We can redistribute VMware player as part of a Virtual Appliance. But really, all we need to be doing is producing .vmdk files (virtual disk images) for our SoaS snapshots. These files can be loaded in any of VMware, VirtualBox and Parallels, and can be used with QEMU after a command line conversion step. You need the VMware, VirtualBox, or Parallels specifc extensions and drivers, so we really end up needing one image for each platform to make this easy for people to use. Hackers can of course, always customize the VMDK. I just tried coverting the VirtualBox VDI and learned that Parallels can't just load the image, it needs the VMware or VirtualBox VM configuration file that goes with the VM to do the import. I am sure its possible, but it's a little trickier than it looks. Dave Once we have a stream of .vmdk files coming, we can move on to creating Virtual Appliances or other easier to use solutions. Check out http://dev.laptop.org/~wadeb/OLPC-XO-Software-8.2.0-Setup.exehttp://dev.laptop.org/%7Ewadeb/OLPC-XO-Software-8.2.0-Setup.exe for an example of a QEMU-based installer for Windows. This uses OLPC's 8.2.0 release but could be easily retargeted at SoaS. Cheers, Wade ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com http://www.solutiongrove.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Dave Bauer dave.ba...@gmail.com wrote: But really, all we need to be doing is producing .vmdk files (virtual disk images) for our SoaS snapshots. These files can be loaded in any of VMware, VirtualBox and Parallels, and can be used with QEMU after a command line conversion step. In any case, even if it was this easy (other seem to report otherwise), it's more steps than an educator should have to perform. The idea is that we can provide them with prepackaged, no extra-fluff-needed executables, *as well* as in raw image formats. Moreover, VMDK files are (IIRC) hard to generate programmatically, whereas COW/QEMU images can be generated easilly as part of a build script. -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Luke Faraone l...@faraone.cc wrote: On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Dave Bauer dave.ba...@gmail.com wrote: But really, all we need to be doing is producing .vmdk files (virtual disk images) for our SoaS snapshots. These files can be loaded in any of VMware, VirtualBox and Parallels, and can be used with QEMU after a command line conversion step. In any case, even if it was this easy (other seem to report otherwise), it's more steps than an educator should have to perform. The idea is that we can provide them with prepackaged, no extra-fluff-needed executables, *as well* as in raw image formats. Moreover, VMDK files are (IIRC) hard to generate programmatically, whereas COW/QEMU images can be generated easilly as part of a build script. Actually, you can create a .vmdk from .img using the QEMU tools. It's just that .vmdk is much more widely supported that .img so it would save a conversion step for most VM users. I agree that we should be providing 1 click solutions *in addition* to providing .vmdk files for people who already use VMs regularly. Wade ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows
Actually, you can create a .vmdk from .img using the QEMU tools. It's just that .vmdk is much more widely supported that .img so it would save a conversion step for most VM users. I agree that we should be providing 1 click solutions *in addition* to providing .vmdk files for people who already use VMs regularly. Right, VMDK is not easily reusable though, for Parallels you have to perform a few steps to reuse it. One click solution is the goal of course. QEMU really isn't that solution unless you can use acceleration. The speed is pretty much unusable otherwise, and that is really only useful for testing if you are very patient. Anyone who needs a 1-click installer also would expect reasonable performance. I haven't found an easy way to get QEMU working with acceleration on OS X. I think we are working towards a solution, just not as quickly as we would like. Dave Wade -- Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com http://www.solutiongrove.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Dave Bauer dave.ba...@gmail.com wrote: Actually, you can create a .vmdk from .img using the QEMU tools. It's just that .vmdk is much more widely supported that .img so it would save a conversion step for most VM users. I agree that we should be providing 1 click solutions *in addition* to providing .vmdk files for people who already use VMs regularly. Right, VMDK is not easily reusable though, for Parallels you have to perform a few steps to reuse it. One click solution is the goal of course. QEMU really isn't that solution unless you can use acceleration. The speed is pretty much unusable otherwise, and that is really only useful for testing if you are very patient. Anyone who needs a 1-click installer also would expect reasonable performance. I haven't found an easy way to get QEMU working with acceleration on OS X. I think we are working towards a solution, just not as quickly as we would like. Dave I brought up VMware Virtual Appliances as an option at one point, has anyone tried creating one of those? I'm not sure how close to one click they are though. VirtualBox appears to have the beginnings of some appliance support as well. Best, Wade ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Luke Faraone l...@faraone.cc wrote: Virtualbox is Free and potentially similar. Also, coLinux requires Administrator privileges to run, so students on school computers probably can't use it.[1] Don't VMs on Windows require admin privileges to install and/or run (I honestly don't know)? I presume that we can package up the emulator as just some .exe on a USB stick, to be run without needing installation. VirtualBox and VMWare all need drivers in the Windows kernel, so you are limitted to amazingly slow quemu. QEMU is plenty fast when you install the acceleration service. What it lacks is a simple installer. Finally, we cannot legally redistribute VMware and the interesting parts of VirtualBox like USB and rdesktop support. We can redistribute VMware player as part of a Virtual Appliance. But really, all we need to be doing is producing .vmdk files (virtual disk images) for our SoaS snapshots. These files can be loaded in any of VMware, VirtualBox and Parallels, and can be used with QEMU after a command line conversion step. Once we have a stream of .vmdk files coming, we can move on to creating Virtual Appliances or other easier to use solutions. Check out http://dev.laptop.org/~wadeb/OLPC-XO-Software-8.2.0-Setup.exe for an example of a QEMU-based installer for Windows. This uses OLPC's 8.2.0 release but could be easily retargeted at SoaS. Cheers, Wade ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Luke Faraone wrote: On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Martin Dengler mar...@martindengler.comwrote: Interesting but you'd need an X server running on Windows, according to http://colinux.wikia.com/wiki/XCoLinux (IIUC). So you're still going to have to get them not only an EXE with coLinux, but one with cygwin/X or another (do free ones exist?) X server that runs on windows. Seems non-trivial. It's been done, see http://www.andlinux.org/ Con: So, the principal difficulty with using coLinux with Sugar is that it uses a Windows-side X server, which provides its own window manager. We need to use our own, custom-configured window manager, in order for the GUI to work. (For the same reason, Sugar won't run over an ssh tunnel.) We could attempt to port some of the window management stuff to Cygwin, but... let's not. Pro: I just had an epiphany, though: the Xephyr-box approach (as used in jhbuild) should still work fine. The Xephyr window will simply appear as a Windows window. Con: VMWare Player is free and extremely fast. It provides all the functionality we could hope to provide through coLinux, and might even be /faster/. Virtualbox is Free and potentially similar. Also, coLinux requires Administrator privileges to run, so students on school computers probably can't use it.[1] Plus, it's insecure on multi-user machines.[2] Pro: If anyone gets Sugar in coLinux to outperform Sugar in a VM, there will certainly be plenty of interest. Until then, I'm happy enough with virtual machines. - --Ben [1] http://colinux.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ#Q0._Do_I_need_Administrator_rights_on_my_Windows_computer_.3F [2] http://www.andlinux.org/faq.php -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkm3CR0ACgkQUJT6e6HFtqRc9ACaAuuiHoQ9/tlkT/YeGhWcPSCz 7mQAoJhhDn/zzFQ3C3DmjaJ2Btvfgc6O =ISdN -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 09:26:59PM -0400, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: So, the principal difficulty with using coLinux with Sugar is that it uses a Windows-side X server, which provides its own window manager. We need to use our own, custom-configured window manager, in order for the GUI to work. (For the same reason, Sugar won't run over an ssh tunnel.) Can't say anything about the first part, but the second is plain wrong (the box running Sugar shipped by lenny is in a different room - go figure how I prevent having to move my feet :) ). The window manager isn't tied to the X server in any way. We could attempt to port some of the window management stuff to Cygwin, but... let's not. IIRC no special porting should be required regarding X on Windows. It even seems to be able to utilize shared memory nowadays if configured accordingly [1], so performance should be OK. Virtualbox is Free and potentially similar. Also, coLinux requires Administrator privileges to run, so students on school computers probably can't use it.[1] Don't VMs on Windows require admin privileges to install and/or run (I honestly don't know)? [1] http://x.cygwin.com/docs/ug/using-shared-memory.html CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sascha Silbe wrote: On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 09:26:59PM -0400, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: So, the principal difficulty with using coLinux with Sugar is that it uses a Windows-side X server, which provides its own window manager. We need to use our own, custom-configured window manager, in order for the GUI to work. (For the same reason, Sugar won't run over an ssh tunnel.) Can't say anything about the first part, but the second is plain wrong (the box running Sugar shipped by lenny is in a different room - go figure how I prevent having to move my feet :) ). The window manager isn't tied to the X server in any way. Are you using the sugar-emulator command? I believe this command runs sugar inside a Xephyr box, which creates a complete new virtual X server. This X server runs on the client-side, i.e. your Lenny box, with its own window manager, in this case Matchbox. Your server-side X server never interacts with Sugar directly. This approach should also work with coLinux. However, it has significant overhead (running multiple X servers will do that), and I'm not sure that it would allow the user to run in full-screen mode (as Sugar is designed to run). Ideally, the user would be able to resize the Sugar window as they please, including switching to and from full-screen. I know that VMWare Player supports this; I haven't tested anything else. Virtualbox is Free and potentially similar. Also, coLinux requires Administrator privileges to run, so students on school computers probably can't use it.[1] Don't VMs on Windows require admin privileges to install and/or run (I honestly don't know)? I presume that we can package up the emulator as just some .exe on a USB stick, to be run without needing installation. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkm3JZAACgkQUJT6e6HFtqSiKQCeOMTfRVJdxPPxCuDUuFJnkuJH elAAnjTiwXCChpTeKWDHEyk9rc6Up7pp =c3fC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Running sugar at almost-native speeds in Windows
On 3/10/09, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sascha Silbe wrote: On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 09:26:59PM -0400, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: So, the principal difficulty with using coLinux with Sugar is that it uses a Windows-side X server, which provides its own window manager. We need to use our own, custom-configured window manager, in order for the GUI to work. (For the same reason, Sugar won't run over an ssh tunnel.) Can't say anything about the first part, but the second is plain wrong (the box running Sugar shipped by lenny is in a different room - go figure how I prevent having to move my feet :) ). The window manager isn't tied to the X server in any way. Are you using the sugar-emulator command? I believe this command runs sugar inside a Xephyr box, which creates a complete new virtual X server. This X server runs on the client-side, i.e. your Lenny box, with its own window manager, in this case Matchbox. Your server-side X server never interacts with Sugar directly. This approach should also work with coLinux. However, it has significant overhead (running multiple X servers will do that), and I'm not sure that it would allow the user to run in full-screen mode (as Sugar is designed to run). Ideally, the user would be able to resize the Sugar window as they please, including switching to and from full-screen. I know that VMWare Player supports this; I haven't tested anything else. I'm not sure that what you are saying about sugar-emulator is correct; the xepher xserver is runing on the box you are sshing into with the output displayed on your own box. X11 is fully ported to Windows, and supports full-screen. Simply add a runtime argument and it will behave as you desire with only one xserver client and server. Virtualbox is Free and potentially similar. Also, coLinux requires Administrator privileges to run, so students on school computers probably can't use it.[1] Don't VMs on Windows require admin privileges to install and/or run (I honestly don't know)? I presume that we can package up the emulator as just some .exe on a USB stick, to be run without needing installation. VirtualBox and VMWare all need drivers in the Windows kernel, so you are limitted to amazingly slow quemu. Finally, we cannot legally redistribute VMware and the interesting parts of VirtualBox like USB and rdesktop support. -- Luke Faraone http://luke.faraone.cc ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
