Re: History - Early Green Card
On 27/3/07 15:19, "Mark Pace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm looking at my yellow, fan fold, GX20-1850-3 S/370 Reference. > Fourth Edition (November 1976) Which happens to be the exact month I joined IBM. Nigel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframe vs. "Server" (Was Just another example of mainfr
Now, now. But I really can't think of a non-IBM hardware platform on which I could run z/Linux. (Oh, go on then.) Nigel On 18/1/07 15:12, "Paul Gilmartin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In a recent note, Nigel Hadfield said: > >> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:05:44 + >> >> I'm not so sure the distinction between software and microcode is that >> artificial, but in any event I'd call Hercules a z/Architecture emulator >> rather than processor. Of course, with a closed architecture, having the >> "hardware" alone is not enough, since IBM wouldn't license the software. >> > Are you saying there's no z/Architecture software that can be run > (legally) on Hercules? Can anyone think of a counterexample? > > -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframe vs. "Server" (Was Just another example of mainfr
I'm not so sure the distinction between software and microcode is that artificial, but in any event I'd call Hercules a z/Architecture emulator rather than processor. Of course, with a closed architecture, having the "hardware" alone is not enough, since IBM wouldn't license the software. Nigel On 18/1/07 14:54, "Paul Gilmartin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In a recent note, Nigel Hadfield said: > >> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 10:05:25 + >> >> I suppose we should think of open hardware and open software separately. >> Anyone is allowed to build an "IBM-compatible" PC, but not an IBM-compatible >> mainframe. I guess anyone is also free to build an Intel x86-compatible >> processor (as AMD have done), or an AMD64-compatible processor (as Intel >> have done). But don't dare try to build a z/Archtiecture processor. >> > Hercules? (I'll ignore the artificial distinction between software > and microcode.) > > -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframe vs. "Server" (Was Just another example of mainframe costs.)
I agree that the term "open system" has been flagrantly misused, primarily to promote Unix systems at the expense of "proprietary" systems like z/os and Windows. I think the idea that Windows is open was put forward by Microsoft precisely to counter this pro-Unix marketing ploy. And IBM's response of course was MVS Open Edition, and later Linux. One company I know used to define open systems in terms of the interoperability of programs, data, and people. Most Unix programs can be ported to other Unix flavours; in Unix a file is a file is a file; and if you are comfortable using one flavour of Unix you'll usually convert to a different flavour pretty quickly. But you can't move to someone else's Windows or z/OS, or rebuild Windows or z/OS for a different platform. So they're not "open". I suppose we should think of open hardware and open software separately. Anyone is allowed to build an "IBM-compatible" PC, but not an IBM-compatible mainframe. I guess anyone is also free to build an Intel x86-compatible processor (as AMD have done), or an AMD64-compatible processor (as Intel have done). But don't dare try to build a z/Archtiecture processor. Nigel On 18/1/07 06:26, "Timothy Sipples" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > John Chase writes: >> Indeed. Windows is about as "open" as the former Soviet Union. > > Amen. > > Re: "Anyone can build a hardware box to run Windows," well, yes, but you > must go to Intel or AMD for the chip. So you have a duopoly -- AMD argues > a monopoly -- on the component that matters. But software is far more > meaningful when talking about openness. I fail to see how anybody could > reasonably describe a Windows PC server as "open" and a System z running > Linux as not open. It's just plain deceptive. Same goes for HP-UX on > Itanium. > > FWIW, I think IBM still includes lots of TPF source code with that > operating system. And mainframe Linux is 100% open source. Most X86-based > Linux distributions include closed source device drivers. > > Words ought to mean something, and I wish the (primarily UNIX) marketers > hadn't stolen the word "open." I think it's time to take the word back > from the marketers and return it to the English language. I use the term > "distributed server" since that's the most neutral-but-descriptive term I > know. Maybe there's a better term. > > - - - - - > Timothy Sipples > IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect > Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z > Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframe vs. "Server" (Was Just another example of mainframe costs.)
Well, of course, it depends how you define "open". Windows clearly isn't open source, nor can any company other than Microsoft produce an OS that looks and feels like Windows. But any company is free to produce a machine that runs Windows (even Apple!), and that goes a long way towards explaining why Windows computers are so relatively cheap. Nigel On 17/1/07 14:45, "Jon Brock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It would be funnier if it weren't so true. > > Jon > > > > > I disagree. My home PC with IE is open to all hackers in the world, > whenever I connect to Internet > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Special characters in passwords was Re: RACF - Password rules.
Or you could make the rules so complex that there is only one valid password. Nigel On 9/1/07 15:11, "Ted MacNEIL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Why don't they use single sign-on and passtickets? Also, the fact that they >> pander to what people want doesn't make "what people want" good. > > What people want is to be able to sign on easily, and not have to call > somebody because the rules make it difficult to remember passwords. > > This kind of cr*p is what make IT difficult to the business (the people we are > here to serve; not the other way around). > > Have you ever seen somebody try to manage their sign-ons in 'over-secure' > sites? > I have! It isn't pretty! > > No wonder people start using sticky notes. > Instead of carping about what they should be doing, let's attempt the unique. > Let's make it easy to use a secure system, rather than insisting on difficult > to use rules. > > A minimum length (6+). > A maximum period before you have to change. > An "N" strikes rule. > > Let's see a dictionary attack get through that! > > > Yaw tee pucketty! > Rum ting clue! > Ni! Ni! Ni! > Arrooo! > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Super-Friday
You just need to have the briefcase sent in a taxi, following a respectful distance behind you. That's the way the new green British Conservative leader does it. Nigel On 23/12/06 17:49, "Ed Finnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > In a message dated 12/23/2006 11:25:34 A.M. Central Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > might ride my bike to work, but then I'd have to figure a way to strap on > my brief case. > > > >>> > > _http://www.landsend.com/cd/fp/prod/0,,1_2_678_66255_144891_122938_5:view=-1,0 > 0.html?sid=6675179806618150990&CM_MERCH=SRCH_ > (http://www.landsend.com/cd/fp/prod/0,,1_2_678_66255_144891_122938_5:view=-1,0 > 0.html?sid=6675179806618150990&C > M_MERCH=SRCH) > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM sues maker of Intel-based Mainframe clones
On 22/12/06 15:22, "Phil Payne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At that time IBM charged $200,000 to open the doors. > > British Telecom, once advised of this policy, went _NUTS_. We called it "Lego > bricks" - > hardly a week went by without a request to take an engine out of box X and put > it in box Y. And a wonderful company called Enterprise Computer Services made a very good living for a number of years upgrading, downgrading, and crossgrading 3090s, by doing just that with IBM's engines. Made much easier once a good late friend and colleague had essentially hacked the VM system that was the 3090 console. Nigel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM sues maker of Intel-based Mainframe clones
On 21/12/06 00:54, "Phil Payne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In terms of real lead generation - going out and finding people who hadn't > considered a > mainframe before - all of the PCMs were pathetic. Well, they made no effort > whatsoever. The > strategy was always to find existing IBM users and take a deal from IBM. With the possible exception of Universities? I'm thinking Leeds, UMRCC, ULCC in the UK. Nigel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM sues maker of Intel-based Mainframe clones
On 9/12/06 10:40, "Phil Payne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If you have an illegal copy of z/OS, it is the licensee you got it from that IBM > will sue, not > you. And one consequence of action is immediate revocation - how would your > company survive > if IBM cancelled its licenses? I can't believe that IBM would sue a company if they discovered, say, that a former employee of that company had, without authority, copied some ADCD discs for personal use at home. But I agree that any company stupid enough to run Hercules with (un)licensed IBM software deserves all they get. Nigel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM sues maker of Intel-based Mainframe clones
It's difficult to see why they are suing, especially when they never sued PCMs in previous generations. Surely they could simply refuse to licence z/OS on the PSI machines. That would put PSI out of business just as quickly. Nigel On 5/12/06 18:43, "Pinnacle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Anne & Lynn Wheeler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:55 AM > Subject: IBM sues maker of Intel-based Mainframe clones > > >> >> IBM sues maker of Intel-based Mainframe clones >> http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=BKMIXSNECXW0O >> QSNDLSCKHA?articleID=196601610 >> > > What a chilling development, especially on the heels of IBM's refusal to > renew the FLEX-ES patent licenses. Soon the z9 BC will be the only > entry-level machine available for commercial use. Unless IBM and PSI reach > a settlement, this lawsuit puts PSI out of business (unless the venture > capitalists can keep it afloat for the 10 years it will take to decide the > patent lawsuit). What a mess. Any chance we'd ever see a personal license > for z/OS probably just vanished. > > Regards, > Tom Conley > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: What's a mainframe?
Which puts me in mind of the definitions of various kinds of (storage? something else?): a) If you can see it, and it's there, it's real. b) If you can see it, and it's not there, it's virtual. c) If you can't see it, but it's there, it's transparent. d) If you can't see it, and it's not there, it's [EMAIL PROTECTED] disappeared. Nigel -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Phil Payne Sent: 18 November 2006 12:12 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: What's a mainframe? There used to be a rule: a) If you push it and it doesn't move, it's a mainframe. b) If you push it and it moves, it's midrange. c) If you can pick it up and steal it, it's a PC. Now: d) If it's a major source of p/r egg-on-face for a bank and causes a Financial Services Authority investigation, it's a hot laptop. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/moneybox/6160054.stm -- Phil Payne http://www.isham-research.co.uk +44 7833 654 800 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/537 - Release Date: 11/17/2006 17:56 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: The PSI Letter V4
On 4/11/06 16:46, "Tom Marchant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When Amdahl started selling processors, the operating system was free.
> When IBM started to charge for it, they knew how much power an Amdahl
> processor had and where it fit in the pricing structure.
ISTR there was a perception at that time that IBM could not legally refuse
to license its software on whatever machine the customer wanted to use.
("You could license it on a washing machine if you wanted to."). I guess
this was related to the anti-trust nonsense. I don't suppose IBM always
liked to admit quite how powerful Amdahl and Itel/NAS machines were, so PCM
customers probably got a fair deal. But if that was the case, when and why
did it change? I can license Windows XP on a Mac Pro, but I can't license
z/OS on anything but an IBM-approved machine!
Nigel
--
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Re: Why is JCL allergic to lower case?
Not war, just awe. When I saw my first 1403 in 1976, it took me a long time to accept that the box of paper in the back could possibly have been blank. Nigel On 7/8/06 13:45, "Daniel A. McLaughlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've seen boxes of cards, set innocently on top of a 1403, go scattering > when the paper out was hit. > I've seen the 1403 slew a whole box of paper at one time when the control > ribbon broke. > There are other war stories but those will always stay fresh. > > Makes me wonder about the cumulative total of years this list represents. > Can we say it's in the thousands? > > > > > Daniel McLaughlin > ZOS Systems Programmer > Crawford & Company > PH: 770 621 3256 > * > Victory is won not in miles but in inches. Win a little now, hold your > ground, and later, win a little more." > ? Louis L'Amour > > > > > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Finger trouble brings down NHS
Well, that's the cost of the entire new IT system. What went down this time was a relatively small part of the NHS's current IT. The BBC (initially at least) reported this as a SAN failure. This follows swiftly on from a well-publicised SAN failure at a largish UK ISP, and an entirely unpublicised SAN failure that hit the email system at a major UK government department. Mainframes may well use the very same SANs, but I would expect the backup/recovery and DR procedures to be much more robust. Nigel On 2/8/06 13:30, "Perryman, Brian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I can't believe the cost of that system either - I think I saw on BBC News at > some point that it will end up having cost over 20 BILLION. That's UK Pounds.. > so more than that in USD. > > Gimme a mainframe and some decent programmers and I'll do it for a tenth of > that.. ;-) > This e-mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)and may > contain confidential and privileged information of Transaction > NetworkServices. > Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution isprohibited. If you > are not the intended recipient, please contact thesender by reply e-mail and > destroy all copies of the original message. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: MVS Licenses/MVS sites
When I worked for Amdahl in the 1980s, the salesmen made great use of the "Computer Users Yearbook". Not sure if this was a UK only phenomenon, but I think it was compiled by the publisher sending questionnaires to most UK companies of any size. People seemed happy to answer questions in those days. Nigel On 11/7/06 01:33, "Kevin Keyes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Charles Mills wrote: > >>> marketing pukes >>> >>> >> >> Excuse me? >> >> >> >>> wondered how they found all that information >>> >>> >> >> A number of companies develop or once developed directories of sites by >> hardware type (AS/400, Univac, S/390, DEC, whatever). If you started with a >> mailing list for an enterprise software type magazine and had the budget to >> call every unique shop represented, you could do a pretty good job >> (especially back in the days when people actually answered their >> telephones). Once you have the list, it is a somewhat simpler task to >> maintain it. >> >> Such a list could be sold to the marketing, um, people - that revenue might >> justify the expense involved. >> >> I'm a techie at heart but I used to own a software company. Without sales >> people, there would have been no sales, and no jobs for programmers. >> Marketing is more than sales. Part of marketing's job is to make sure that >> the techies are building what the customers want - not an entirely bad >> thing. >> >> Charles >> >> > Now you have done it Charles. I have been marketing and selling IBM > mainframe software since starting up in 1980. There are > some ego's here that can't handle this logic. > > IBM does not publish customer lists for obvious reasons. As I am sure > you know, there are some good alternatives that can be purchased > and each can be broken down by names, companies, sites, processors, > etc., for both vert. and horizontal marketing opportunities. > > Harte-Hanks directly comes to mind but I get packages monthly with other > companies providing the same service. > > You logic above however will get you some flames due to many that have never > seen both ends of the gun. > > Goods luck. (E)JES me off-line what you are specifically looking for, I have > been around a long time and have a pretty good handle on it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Models/ranges cross-reference?
Hmmm - not sure what you mean by "download", but after a previous posting of yours, I clicked on the disclaimer link last week just for the hell of it. Didn't read it of course. Nigel On 28/6/06 14:13, "Phil Payne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Factoid of questionable value - requests for MIPS tables over the last week: > > z9 bc - 118 "unique vists" - sometimes multiple displays > z9 ec - 18 ditto > > (z9 - 54, z890 - 52, z990 - 11, z890 - 6) > > Nobody downloaded the disclaimer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Another off-shoring question
Sounds like asymmetrical economic warfare to me. Nigel On 19/6/06 14:11, "R.S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, The prices are higher in Europe. For software hardware as well. > It is not subject of taxes, I'm talking about net prices. It's also not > an issue of customs (border taxes). > BTW: taxes are higher. > > Of course total cost of ownership includes hardware and software fees, > and many other components, like people's salary or taxes or cost of > telecommunication. > > However I'd like to draw your attention to another aspect: > Nobody cries when hearing about off-shoring to U.S. > Do you remember the postings when someone wrote about off-shoring out-of > U.S. ? > Is it 'unidirectionally' fair ? > "I'm robbed - it's bad, I robbed someone - it's good". > > My opinion: off-shoring is neither bad nor good. It is kind of > competition. Competition is a fact, like gravity. > > My $0.02 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: NYTIMES: I.B.M. Seeks to Make the Mainframe Modern Technology
That seems to be a common house style in US newspapers. On 8/5/06 14:45, "Hal Merritt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "I.B.M" Not a company I am familiar with. > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Ed Gould > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 8:03 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: NYTIMES: I.B.M. Seeks to Make the Mainframe Modern Technology > > I.B.M. Seeks to Make the Mainframe Modern Technology > > By STEVE LOHR > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Mainframe near history (IBM 3380 and 3880 docs)
The description on Amazon makes this sound every bit as serious as Y2K. Nigel On 5/5/06 14:37, "Knutson, Sam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If you find this stuff interesting and a concern you would enjoy the > book "Dark Ages II: When the Digital Data Die" and some of the related > material on the Internet. > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0130661074 > > Google "Digital Dark Ages" for tons of related hits. > > http://www.ifla.org/IV/ifla63/63kuny1.pdf > > http://www.spectroscopyeurope.com/TD_14_3.pdf > > Best Regards, > > Sam Knutson, GEICO > Performance and Availability Management > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > (office) 301.986.3574 > > Knock on the sky and listen to the sound! > Zen saying > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of William Donzelli > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 8:21 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Mainframe near history (IBM 3380 and 3880 docs) > >> I just threw out the 3380 and 3390 books. > > I have not climbed on my soapbox lately, but now seems like a good time. > > This email/fax message is for the sole use of the intended > recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. > Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this > email/fax is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please > destroy all paper and electronic copies of the original message. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Tax chooses dead language - Australia
On 28/2/06 18:17, "john gilmore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > But is BSOD, 'Blue Screen of Death' an abbreviation and > not an acronym? I think not. Well, the only hit on the BBC's news site has BSOD in upper case, so the BBC think it's an abbreviation :-) Unfortunately, they don't seem to discuss VSAM or VTAM very much at the BBC, but they are surely acronyms. And ISTR that CICS is an acronym in the US but an abbreviation in the UK. But enough ... Nigel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Tax chooses dead language - Austalia
BBC is an abbreviation, not an acronym. On 28/2/06 16:55, "Tom Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well, shouldn't they be known as the Bbc then? > > > On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 08:27:46 -0800, Ray Mullins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I've noticed that the initial-upper-rest-lower style for acronyms appears > to >> have originated in the UK. The BBC refers to Nato, Nasa, and Cobol >> (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4021093.stm as an example). > > -- > Tom Schmidt > Madison, WI > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
