Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Kopischke Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 1:28 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes This is a common problem with these kinds of stories. There is no shortage of writers to make this kind of migration news. There is a huge shortage of writers interested in evaluating the results. Why is the start of a project like this news-worthy, but details of the project itself and its success or failure is not ??? I guess I'm just naive in expecting journalists to be interested in follow-through and objectivity. They get their info from people who want to be in the news and be seen. If it goes south, those same people don't want anyone to know they had anything to do with it. I've seen that happen twice. CEO got canned in one (didn't really make the news, he just left to pursue other interests), the CIO & CTO in another "retired". Companies do not want bad publicity in many industries, particularly insurance, utilities and financial organizations. Later, Steve Thompson -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes
On 26 Feb 2007 11:28:28 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dave Kopischke) wrote: >I want to hear about the results whether it works or not. If it works, then >I want enough information to evaluate whether this kind of migration might >be beneficial to us. Most projects are somewhere in between. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:38:02 -0700, Dave Reinken wrote: >> Because I want to know if it worked or not. As you imply, it will be next >> to impossible to get an objective answer, but SIAC is a high visibility >> company and process within the industry. They won't fail without someone >> knowing it. > >As much as I hate to see mainframes getting shut down (I still have my >VM-BIGOT pin), I sincerely hope this one works one way or another that >DOESN'T involve a massive failure. Heck, or even a minor one, for that >matter. > I guess I should have been clearer... I want to hear about the results whether it works or not. If it works, then I want enough information to evaluate whether this kind of migration might be beneficial to us. If it doesn't work, I want enough information to evaluate why it didn't work. i.e.: Flaw in the concept ??? Flaw in execution ??? I would hope that SIAC would evaluate the project and delay or cancel implementation prior to it causing a business interruption. This is a common problem with these kinds of stories. There is no shortage of writers to make this kind of migration news. There is a huge shortage of writers interested in evaluating the results. Why is the start of a project like this news-worthy, but details of the project itself and its success or failure is not ??? I guess I'm just naive in expecting journalists to be interested in follow-through and objectivity. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes
Dave Kopischke wrote: Because I want to know if it worked or not. As you imply, it will be next to impossible to get an objective answer, but SIAC is a high visibility company and process within the industry. They won't fail without someone knowing it. when we were doing ha/cmp ... we talked quite a bit to SIAC, which was using a number of tandem computers at the time ... misc posts mentioning ha/cmp http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp in that period, i had been asked to write part of the corporate continuous availability strategy document (based on ha/cmp work we were doing in geographic survivability) ... however both Rochester and POK non-concurred with what I had written ... and it got pulled (at the time, they didn't have any offerings that could meet the criteria); we had coined the terms disaster survivability (as an alternative to disaster/recover) and geographic survivability ... misc. posts on geographic operation and continuous availability http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#availability later we also talked to one of the big financial transaction operations running IMS hot-standby in a geographic separated operation ... they attributed their 100 percent availability over a period of several years to 1) IMS hot-standby and 2) automated operator (i.e. people make mistakes) for a little drift ... my wife had been con'ed into serving a stint in POK in charge of loosely-coupled architecture where she originated "peer-coupled shared data" architecture http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#shareddata except for IMS hot-standby, the architecture saw very little uptake until sysplex (one of the reasons she didn't stay in that position for very long). for small amount of other IMS topic drift ... in this old email http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#email801016 in this post http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#1 "The Elements of Programming Style" for other topic drift, collection of email discussing ha/cmp scale-up http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes
> From: Dave Kopischke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:43:54 -0500, Veilleux, Jon L wrote: > >David Kopischke wrote: > >> I sure hope they do a follow-up on this one early next year. > >Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes Are Breaking Their Decades-Old > >Hold on Wall Street > > > >Why do you want to see a follow up? They'll just tell you how wonderful > >their new system is and "it's almost as reliable as a mainframe" and > >it's cheaper > > Because I want to know if it worked or not. As you imply, it will be next > to impossible to get an objective answer, but SIAC is a high visibility > company and process within the industry. They won't fail without someone > knowing it. If NYSE fails on a technology problem, it will lead the national news, bet on it. I, for one, do NOT want to see this one on reboot hill. The NYSE is already being eclipsed by foreign exchanges, and anything that would cause any concerns with it would be bad not just for Wall Street, but for America. As much as I hate to see mainframes getting shut down (I still have my VM-BIGOT pin), I sincerely hope this one works one way or another that DOESN'T involve a massive failure. Heck, or even a minor one, for that matter. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 13:43:54 -0500, Veilleux, Jon L wrote: > >David Kopischke wrote: >> I sure hope they do a follow-up on this one early next year. >Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes Are Breaking Their Decades-Old >Hold on Wall Street > > >Why do you want to see a follow up? They'll just tell you how wonderful >their new system is and "it's almost as reliable as a mainframe" and >it's cheaper Because I want to know if it worked or not. As you imply, it will be next to impossible to get an objective answer, but SIAC is a high visibility company and process within the industry. They won't fail without someone knowing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes
http://www.actscorp.com/reboothill.htm - but they admit the stories are old. However, they admit they are trolling for new stories. Later, Ray -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Gould Sent: Thursday February 22 2007 14:38 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes Speaking of reboot hill does someone have a current URL for it? I tried www.rebootthill.com and got back a not found. Ed On Feb 22, 2007, at 12:13 PM, Robert Justice wrote: > I detect a "reboot hill" on this one showing up soon. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes
Speaking of reboot hill does someone have a current URL for it? I tried www.rebootthill.com and got back a not found. Ed On Feb 22, 2007, at 12:13 PM, Robert Justice wrote: I detect a "reboot hill" on this one showing up soon. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes
Our agency blocks access to this site! Craig -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kopischke, David G. Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 12:54 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes I sure hope they do a follow-up on this one early next year. Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes Are Breaking Their Decades-Old Hold on Wall Street http://www.wallstreetandtech.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197007742 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Schmidt > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 12:14 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes > > > On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:54:01 -0700, Kopischke, David G. wrote: > >I sure hope they do a follow-up on this one early next year. > > > Lets see... Gartner called it "a reasonable sized mainframe > shop" and the > VP mentioned that it was a 1600 MIPS system. That is, what, > a 3-way z9?!? > So IBM lost a Baby Computer (z9BC) on Wall Street... Can > Unicics really > handle that load reliably? (Why did Sun part with it if it > was so good?) > > -- > Tom Schmidt The previous administration here wanted to go 100% Windows, porting all z/OS applications as-is to Windows, not doing any sort of rearchitecting. The software conversion company stated that they could take a CICS program and convert it to a native Windows program with equivalent functionality. Apparently they had some Windows/COBOL programs which would emulate the CICS functions such as TempStor. All the VSAM was to be converted to MS SQL tables. They had some sort of GDG emulator as well. And they could complete it in about 9 months. Granted, we are only a 300 MIPS shop (2068-A02). They also said that they would guarantee equivalent or better reliability, availability, and response time. But there was nothing about replacement of products such as CA-7 for scheduling or CA-11 for restart or AbendAid for post-mortem diagnostics (rerun the program in their source tracing environment, step by step, until the error occurs - are they kidding?) -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes
David Kopischke wrote: > I sure hope they do a follow-up on this one early next year. Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes Are Breaking Their Decades-Old Hold on Wall Street Why do you want to see a follow up? They'll just tell you how wonderful their new system is and "it's almost as reliable as a mainframe" and it's cheaper (if you don't include all of the hidden costs). Personally I don't want my financial future to rely on "almost". Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 - This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes
On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:54:01 -0700, Kopischke, David G. wrote: >I sure hope they do a follow-up on this one early next year. Lets see... Gartner called it "a reasonable sized mainframe shop" and the VP mentioned that it was a 1600 MIPS system. That is, what, a 3-way z9?!? So IBM lost a Baby Computer (z9BC) on Wall Street... Can Unicics really handle that load reliably? (Why did Sun part with it if it was so good?) -- Tom Schmidt Madison, WI -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes
I detect a "reboot hill" on this one showing up soon. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes
I sure hope they do a follow-up on this one early next year. Attractive Alternatives to Mainframes Are Breaking Their Decades-Old Hold on Wall Street http://www.wallstreetandtech.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=197007742 -- This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or their designee, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. OppenheimerFunds may, at its sole discretion, monitor, review, retain and/or disclose the content of all email communications. == -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
