Re: Catering for ESLs (was Re: ist663i suppression)

[Howard Brazee]

On 31 Aug 2009 12:08:10 -0700, steve_thomp...@stercomm.com (Thompson,
Steve) wrote:

>She attempted to say something for me at my level and realized that she
>had used the wrong form of "to hear".

Speaking of which, even in English, there seems to be significant
disagreement about the correct spelling/meaning of the expression
"Hear here".

I suspect in this case, people assume long enough that what they think
it means becomes what it means.For instance, I would say the
primary definition of "begging the question" is no longer the original
logicicians' definition.

I wonder what "mainframe" and "legacy" mean to the CIO of most
companies.

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Re: Catering for ESLs (was Re: ist663i suppression)

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <45d79eacefba9b428e3d400e924d36b902724...@iwdubcormsg007.sci.local>, on
08/31/2009
   at 03:06 PM, "Thompson, Steve"  said:

>My wife speaks German. I speak a very small bite of German (not correct
>but a literal for how I would say I speak a little German in Deutsch).
>She attempted to say something for me at my level and realized that she
>had used the wrong form of "to hear". I thought she was telling me that
>what I heard "belonged here." In context, it kinda made sense (I can hear
>a certain poster in Germany having a very good laugh right about
>now).

A native Anglophone speaking Hebrew can trip over idioms in an amusing
fashion, e.g., asking how to get to the bathroom when you meant to ask
about a shared taxicab.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Catering for ESLs (was Re: ist663i suppression)

[Barbara Nitz]

>My wife speaks German. I speak a very small bite of German (not correct
>but a literal for how I would say I speak a little German in Deutsch).
>She attempted to say something for me at my level and realized that she
>had used the wrong form of "to hear". I thought she was telling me that
>what I heard "belonged here." In context, it kinda made sense (I can
>hear a certain poster in Germany having a very good laugh right about
>now).

:-)

That's why a lot of jokes never work when translated literally. You always 
have to explain the meaning first.
Barbara

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Re: Catering for ESLs (was Re: ist663i suppression)

[Thompson, Steve]

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of Chris Mason
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:29 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Catering for ESLs (was Re: ist663i suppression)

Steve

Well, I had hoped it was clear that a simple, surgical MODIFY command
(or 
start option) constituted a nutcracker and that assembly and linkage
editing 
of what must be one humongous set of assembler macros, representing as
it 
does the totality of VTAM commands and messages, could legitimately be 
considered a wrecking ball in comparison, much less a sledgehammer. But
each 
to his own opinion.


>
>You may or may not be familiar with the English expression, "using a
>sledgehammer to crack a nut" but here I present you with an apposite
>application!
>
>
>
>So this is to an ESL (English as a Second Language) poster, and you
>imply that you are using a walnut to crack a sledgehammer?
>
>Regards,
>Steve Thompson


Well, here we are again with a 50 cent word, apposite, which when looked
at by an ESL person, may have been taken as opposite having been
misspelled. 

My wife speaks German. I speak a very small bite of German (not correct
but a literal for how I would say I speak a little German in Deutsch).
She attempted to say something for me at my level and realized that she
had used the wrong form of "to hear". I thought she was telling me that
what I heard "belonged here." In context, it kinda made sense (I can
hear a certain poster in Germany having a very good laugh right about
now).

So, this was a long explanation of how I read what you posted, thinking
in as simplistic terms as I could for someone who is both not fluent in
English and having a huge vocabulary.

Regards,
Steve Thompson

-- Opinions expressed by this poster may not reflect those of poster's
employer --

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Catering for ESLs (was Re: ist663i suppression)

[Chris Mason]

Steve

Well, I had hoped it was clear that a simple, surgical MODIFY command (or 
start option) constituted a nutcracker and that assembly and linkage editing 
of what must be one humongous set of assembler macros, representing as it 
does the totality of VTAM commands and messages, could legitimately be 
considered a wrecking ball in comparison, much less a sledgehammer. But each 
to his own opinion.

Given that the meaning of any unfamiliar word can be researched very easily 
using "define: " in Google, there is no need to pay particular attention to 
ESLs 
or indeed I often expect to EMLs ("English as Mother Language"). There is one 
denizen of this list who delights in stretching our collective grasp of rich 
English vocabulary with one, or preferably more than one, challenging word per 
post.

Indeed, IBM authors could abandon the reputed rule that their output should 
be limited to the vocabulary apparently defined for a certain American school 
grade. With Google's "define: " available to make good any linguistic 
limitations 
of their readers, ESLs or EMLs, they should allow the abundance of their 
command of English to flourish. I doubt however that, being so ingrained, they 
will ever abandon the rule that no infinitive should ever appear unsplit!

Incidentally, I hope you, and perhaps others in the list, notice that, behind 
the initials "USS", VTAM offers a possibly handy unsuspected function!

Chris Mason

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:40:09 -0400, Thompson, Steve 
 wrote:

>-Original Message-
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
>Behalf Of Chris Mason
>Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:21 AM
>To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
>Subject: Re: ist663i suppression
>
>
>
>You may or may not be familiar with the English expression, "using a
>sledgehammer to crack a nut" but here I present you with an apposite
>application!
>
>
>
>So this is to an ESL (English as a Second Language) poster, and you
>imply that you are using a walnut to crack a sledgehammer?
>
>Regards,
>Steve Thompson

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