Re: Code Page 1047 vs 037 - Green card confusion
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/31/2008 at 05:59 PM, Anne Lynn Wheeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: the above title says *train* and then description talks about *chain* The original 1403 definitely used a chain; I just wasn't sure whether *every* 1403 before the Nancy One did. The 1403N1 definitely used a train. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Code Page 1047 vs 037 - Green card confusion
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/24/2008 at 10:31 AM, Farley, Peter x23353 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: When you say UCS, are you referring to the 3800/3900 page-printer Universal Character Set buffer? I.E., the character set one loads to the printer to output text to actual paper? Or do you mean something to do with this new-fangled Unicode system? No, I'm referring to the 1403 line-printer Universal Character Set buffer, since the context was the 1416. That was a wrapper around an array of code points the same size as the band[1], chain[2] or train. The 3800 and 3900 were very different, because you could actually define the pixel layout of each character. [1] Not applicable to the 1403 [2] I don't recall whether there was an S/360 model of the 1403 that used a chain -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Code Page 1047 vs 037 - Green card confusion
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) writes: No, I'm referring to the 1403 line-printer Universal Character Set buffer, since the context was the 1416. That was a wrapper around an array of code points the same size as the band[1], chain[2] or train. The 3800 and 3900 were very different, because you could actually define the pixel layout of each character. [1] Not applicable to the 1403 [2] I don't recall whether there was an S/360 model of the 1403 that used a chain i saw both 1403-7 (600lpm) and 1403-N1 (1100lpm) in use on 360-30. IBM 1403 Printer train http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/attic3/attic3_024.html from above: The chain printer for computers was introduced with the IBM 1401 computer in 1959. Improving both speed and reliability, the IBM 1403 printer's chain-loop of characters traveled horizontally at 90 inches a second and printed 600 lines a minute as it was struck by 132 hammers positioned across the paper. The last IBM 1403 -- of more than 23,000 shipped to U.S. customers -- was delivered in 1983 ... snip ... the above title says *train* and then description talks about *chain* 1403-2 1403-7 printers http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/supplies/supplies_5404PH09.html i think should be chain printers (600lpm) ... above says -7 was 120 print positions and could be used with 360s 370s; -2 was 132 print positions and could be used with 360, 370, s/3 model 10 This reference: The evolution of printers and displays http://www.research.ibm.com/journal/sj/253/ibmsj2503a4N.pdf says that 1403 used chains with train introduced in later 1403N1 -- 40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Code Page 1047 vs 037 - Green card confusion
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 8:18 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Code Page 1047 vs 037 - Green card confusion What they don't tell you is that they relate to the IBM-supplied UCS images rather than to the TN and T11 print trains themselves. When you say UCS, are you referring to the 3800/3900 page-printer Universal Character Set buffer? I.E., the character set one loads to the printer to output text to actual paper? Or do you mean something to do with this new-fangled Unicode system? Google for CECP. Don't blame me; I didn't coin the term. Googling for CECP +IBM yielded better results than just CECP. The acronym CECP is apparently also used by various types of organizations around the globe. The very first hit with CECP +IBM led to here: http://www-306.ibm.com/software/globalization/cp/cp_cpgid.jsp And the parent page of that one is even more helpful: http://www-306.ibm.com/software/globalization/g11n-res.jsp That last one is now in my IBM favorites folder. Shmuel, thanks very much for the keyword recommendation. Very helpful. For the archives, what Shmuel didn't say was that CECP stands for Country Extended Code Page. Peter This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Code Page 1047 vs 037 - Green card confusion
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/08/2008 at 10:45 AM, Farley, Peter x23353 [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Two columns of EBCDIC graphics are shown. The first gives IBM standard U.S. bit pattern assignments. The second shows the T-11 and TN text printing chains (120 graphics). What they don't tell you is that they relate to the IBM-supplied UCS images rather than to the TN and T11 print trains themselves. P.P.S -- Ed, would you please, please enlighten us with where info on this stuff can be mined -- I would happily RTFM if I know which FM(s) was(were) the right ones... Google for CECP. Don't blame me; I didn't coin the term. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Code Page 1047 vs 037 - Green card confusion
At 7/7/2008 12:15 PM, Edward Jaffe wrote:
They [code pages 1047 and 037] are not the same. [snip] People still
using the old code page 037 probably see funny looking garbage
characters in IBM-provided macros and other code. [...]
On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 09:01:02 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote:
I haven't used code page 037 since the mid-1990s. I think just about
everyone here uses 1047.
So what I'm hearing is that code page 1047 is somehow better than
037, and for all I know that may well be true. BUT have you (anyone)
looked at the green card in recent years?
In SA22-7871-00 (SEP01) and SA22-7871-01 (JUN03), the Code
Assignments table shows 5 EBCDIC charts titled 81C 94C 037 500 and
1047. (That's cool, I thought.)
But starting with SA22-7871-02 (SEP05) and continuing to this day
(SA22-7871-04 [FEB08]), the dorks threw out 81C 94C 500 and 1047, and
kept only 037. Well, that leads to two questions:
(1) If 037 is better than 1047, then why did IBM drop it from the green card?
(2) But more importantly, why on earth did IBM drop 81C 94C 500 and
1047 from the green card in the first place? That was damn useful information!
On a related note...
At 7/8/2008 08:53 AM, McKown, John wrote:
I don't know the code page involved, but the GX20-0157-2 (System/370
Extended Architecture Reference Summary) has a section entitled
CODE ASSIGNMENTS which put { at 0x8b and } at 0x9b.
SHESSS!
Dave
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Re: Code Page 1047 vs 037 - Green card confusion
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Cole
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 10:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Code Page 1047 vs 037 - Green card confusion
Snipped
On a related note...
At 7/8/2008 08:53 AM, McKown, John wrote:
I don't know the code page involved, but the GX20-0157-2 (System/370
Extended Architecture Reference Summary) has a section entitled
CODE ASSIGNMENTS which put { at 0x8b and } at 0x9b.
SHESSS!
And my several copies of the System /370 Reference Summary GX20-1850
(-5, -6 and -7) also show those code points for curly braces WITH A
FOOTNOTE in the column heading (perhaps they removed the footnote for
XA?):
Two columns of EBCDIC graphics are shown. The first gives IBM standard
U.S. bit pattern assignments. The second shows the T-11 and TN text
printing chains (120 graphics).
The X'8B' and X'9B' assignments are those for the text-printing column.
The IBM standard column assignment for curly braces is X'C0' and
X'D0', which we dinos all know to be the One True and Only Way.
v.b.g g.d.r.
Peter
P.S. -- Ed's suggestion of ISPF terminal #6 works a charm -- the
strange characters in front are box-drawing characters, so maybe 3278T
means 3278 with text-printing graphics?
P.P.S -- Ed, would you please, please enlighten us with where info on
this stuff can be mined -- I would happily RTFM if I know which FM(s)
was(were) the right ones...
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