Re: IBM Mainframe (1980's) on You tube

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <497514.89207...@web161422.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, on 06/29/2011
   at 09:10 PM, Ed Gould  said:

>Another topic. What was the IBM # for the specialized processor
>engines that were something like AP's (but weren't) on the 3090.

I'm not aware of any that were specific to the 3090, but there were
channel-attached array and crypto boxen for S/370. There was a vector
processor option on the 3090. but AFAIK it wasn't an extra box and did
not have a model number.
 
-- 
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 ISO position; see  
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(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: IBM Mainframe (1980's) on You tube

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

l...@garlic.com (Anne & Lynn Wheeler) writes:
> IBM TSS/360 pubs at bitsavers:
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/tss/

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#68 IBM Mainframe (1980's) on You tube
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#69 IBM Mainframe (1980's) on You tube

one of the things in tss/360 was "single-level-store" ... basically
virtual memory semantics for files. there was some number of
implementation difficulties ... which continued into the FS
effort. ... misc. past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

After FS failed, some subset was carried forth for the s/38 in Rochester
(later morphing into as/400).

some number of things carried forth from CTSS into cp67/cms ... but CMS
also adopted a bunch of os/360 stuff (compiler, assemblers, etc) by
simulating some amount of os/360 system services.

during the FS period ... I was doing some memory mapped stuff for
cp67/cms ... attempting to avoid many of the shortcomings that I
observed from tss/360 (and ridiculing the FS effort, claiming I had some
amount of stuff running that they just had vaporware descriptions).
misc. past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap

However, tss/360 did (at least) one thing correct and that was the
definition of address constants; it was possible to memory-map an
executable image on disk directly into a virtual address space at any
location/address (w/o needing to perform any additional operations) ...
including being able to have identical shared copy of the same
executable images in different virtual address spaces simultaneously at
different addresses.

By comparison, the os/360 semantics for "relocatable address constants"
(started out) bringing the executable image into (real) storage at a
specific location ... and then running through the (real) storage image
adjusting all the "relocatable address constants" (to correspond to
their loaded address). For memory-mapped implementation, this
represented horrible post-processing work ... precluding automically
having exact page-mapped image (whats on disk and whats in memory are
identical) *and* sharing between different virtual address spaces
potentially at different virtual addresses.

I had constant on-going headache attempting to deal with all of the
os/360 semantics that had been incorporated into CMS making the
transition to memory-mapped paradigm ... misc. past posts mentioning
headaches trying to deal with the os/360 relocatable adcon semantics
(in paged mapped environment):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#adcons

I then ported a bunch of the stuff from cp67/cms to vm370/cms ...  a
couple old email refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#email731212
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email750102
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email750430

above mentions csc/vm distirbution ... one of my hobbies was providing
production operation systems for internal datacenters. At one point,
csc/vm was distributed and run at more internal datacenters than the
total, aggregate number of Multics installations (small rivalry between
the science center on 4th flr and multics on 5th flr).

the mad rush to get products back into the 370 hardware and software
product pipelines (after FS failure) ... contributed to picking up and
releasing a subset of the csc/vm code in standard shipped vm370 product.

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Re: IBM Mainframe (1980's) on You tube

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

mike.a.sch...@gmail.com (Mike Schwab) writes:
> Vector processors.  Instruction Op-codes were re-used for z/Series.
>
> So Hercules was consolidated into 3 models.  Latest S/370 with 64MB
> real, XA through S/390 with vector, and z/Series.  Earlier models
> would run on the last model, just the software would not use
> instructions for after the model they were coded for.  I think they
> are even trying for a S/360-67 for Multics with virtual memory add-on.

some number of people from CTSS (ibm 7094) went to science center on the
4th floor, 545 tech sq, and did cp40 on 360/40 with specially modified
virtual memory hardware (they had originally tried for a 360/50, but all
the spare 360/50s were going to the FAA air traffic control effort)
misc. past posts mentioning 545 tech sq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545

some number of other people from CTSS went to Project Mac/Multics on 5th
floor.

the science center was pushing hard that Project Mac select 360/67
(standard IBM product with virtual memory support, basically 360/65 with
the virtual memory hardware add-on) for Multics. However, Project Mac
selected GE645 for Multics.  IBM (also) started official time-sharing
TSS/360 product for 360/67. The science center worked on morphing cp40
into cp67 for 360/67 (in parallel with tss/360 ... folklore is cp67 at
one point had 12 people working on cp/67 at the same time that tss/360
had 100 times more ... approx 1200 people). There was various internal
politics between the tss/360 group and the (virtual machine) cp67 group
at the science center. Quite a bit of that early history is covered in
Melinda's paper ... original in multipart postscript
http://web.me.com/melinda.varian/Site/Melinda_Varians_Home_Page.html
recently I sent Melinda a merged single file PDF version
http://web.me.com/melinda.varian/Site/Melinda_Varians_Home_Page_files/neuvm.pdf
and a kindle version
http://web.me.com/melinda.varian/Site/Melinda_Varians_Home_Page_files/neuvm.azw

IBM TSS/360 pubs at bitsavers:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/tss/

Multics was originally implemented in PLI ... GE computer business was
bought by Honeywell (including commercial Multics) and recently the
Multics source was made available ... lots more at Multics site (and
there is reports of work on hardware simulation to run Multics)
http://www.multicians.org

Some mention of using cp67 for keeping SE skills sharp in recent
(linkedin IBM employee) discussion about 23jun69 unbundling announce:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#61 Do you remember back to June 23, 1969 
when IBM unbundled
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#62 Do you remember back to June 23, 1969 
when IBM unbundled
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#63 Do you remember back to June 23, 1969 
when IBM unbundled

other recent discussion of CTSS, Multics, science center, tech sq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#44 OT The inventor of Email - Tom Van 
Vleck
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#49 OT The inventor of Email - Tom Van 
Vleck
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#51 Did My Brother Invent E-Mail With Tom 
Van Vleck?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#54 Did My Brother Invent E-Mail With Tom 
Van Vleck?

The cp67 development group split off from the science center and took
over (IBM) Boston Programming Center on the 3rd floor ... with the morph
of cp67 into vm370 and rapid growth ... the group outgrew the 3rd floor
and moved out to the old (empty) SBC (given to CDC in some litigation
settlement) bldg. in Burlington mall. misc. recent post mentioning
another occupant of the 3rd flr:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011.html#15 545 Tech Square

misc. recent posts mentioning Burlington mall "group":
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011.html#18 IBM Future System
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011b.html#70 vm/370 3081
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011c.html#83 IBM Future System
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011d.html#52 Maybe off topic
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#39 At least two decades back, some gurus 
predicted that mainframes would disappear in future and it still has not 
happened
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011g.html#8 Is the magic and romance killed by 
Windows (and Linux)?

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Re: IBM Mainframe (1980's) on You tube

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

ps2...@yahoo.com (Ed Gould) writes:
> Another topic. What was the IBM # for the specialized processor engines that 
> were something like AP's (but weren't) on the 3090. I keep coming up with a 
> 3088, but I know thats not correct. If I could remember more I could google 
> but 
> the number is just not coming forth.
>
> The real question is did anyone know of any that were used (if so for what?).

3088 was trotter ... 8-arm channel-to-channel

there were the vm/4361s that ran special modified version of vm370
release 6 that were the "service processors" on the 3090 ... aka 3092
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#37 IBM 3614 and 3624 ATM's
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#10 Different Implementations of VLIW
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#22 Evil weather
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#50 Mainframe Hall of Fame: 17 New 
Members Added
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011c.html#71 IBM and the Computer Revolution
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#62 3090 ... announce 12Feb85
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#31 TCP/IP Available on MVS When?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#32 At least two decades back, some gurus 
predicted that mainframes would disappear
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#42 At least two decades back, some gurus 
predicted that mainframes would disappear in future and it still has not 
happened

3090 had "VF" vector processor facility feature ... misc. past posts
mentioning 3090VF
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#61 TF-1
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#12 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine 
was it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#68 IBM zSeries in HPC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#20 simd for 390(or z990)?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006m.html#4 The Power of the NORC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#45 Just another example of mainframe costs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#46 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old 
days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007q.html#55 IBM Z6 processor

3090 was trout1.5 ... misc. past posts w/old email discussing trout1.5
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#42 Flash 10208
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#27 virtual memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#49 "Portable" data centers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#44 Need tool to zap core
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#72 "SIE" on a RISC architecture
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#55 z millicode: where does it reside?

long ago and far away, my wife had been con'ed into going to POK to be
responsible for loosely-coupled architecture. While there there were
ongoing skirmishes and temporary truces over mandate to use SNA for
loosely-coupled operation (temporary truce would be that she could use
anything she wanted within the walls of the datacenter but the
communication group own corporate strategic responsibility for
everything that cross datacenter walls). While there she also developed
"peer-coupled shared data" architecture which saw little uptake until
sysplex (except for IMS hot-standby) as well as enhancements to 3088
that improved its use for loosely-coupled operation (which didn't ship).
misc. past posts reference "peer-coupled shared data" architecture
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#shareddata

there was internal effort that used 3088 with cluster of eight vm/4341s
for processor complex ... but before they were able to ship as product,
they had to convert the interprocessor communication to SNA ... and
cluster operations that had taken small faction of a second elapsed
time, went to large fraction of a minute. misc. past posts mentioning
trotter
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#73 7090 vs. 7094 etc.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#25 Crazy idea: has it been done?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#6 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#26 Future architecture
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#67 unix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#70 A few Z990 Gee-Wiz stats
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#49 History of C
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005.html#11 CAS and LL/SC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#7 54 Processors?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006c.html#43 IBM 610 workstation computer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#31 virtual memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006k.html#21 Sending CONSOLE/SYSLOG To 
Off-Mainframe Server
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#4 Google Architecture
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#4 Was FORTRAN buggy?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#71 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran 
developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007o.html#72 FICON tape drive?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#64 Interesting ibm about the myths of 
the Mainframe
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008e.html#73 Convergent Technologies vs Sun
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#57 Virtual
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#72 Curiousity: largest parallel sysplex 
around?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f

Re: IBM Mainframe (1980's) on You tube

[Mike Schwab]

Vector processors.  Instruction Op-codes were re-used for z/Series.

So Hercules was consolidated into 3 models.  Latest S/370 with 64MB
real, XA through S/390 with vector, and z/Series.  Earlier models
would run on the last model, just the software would not use
instructions for after the model they were coded for.  I think they
are even trying for a S/360-67 for Multics with virtual memory add-on.

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Ed Gould  wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwj6pfhWBps
>
> Another topic. What was the IBM # for the specialized processor engines that
> were something like AP's (but weren't) on the 3090. I keep coming up with a
> 3088, but I know thats not correct. If I could remember more I could google 
> but
> the number is just not coming forth.
>
> The real question is did anyone know of any that were used (if so for what?).
>
> Ed
>
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> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>



-- 
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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IBM Mainframe (1980's) on You tube

[Ed Gould]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwj6pfhWBps

Another topic. What was the IBM # for the specialized processor engines that 
were something like AP's (but weren't) on the 3090. I keep coming up with a 
3088, but I know thats not correct. If I could remember more I could google but 
the number is just not coming forth.

The real question is did anyone know of any that were used (if so for what?).

Ed

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