Re: Migration from 9672 to z800 with zOS 1.5

2006-09-08 Thread Timothy Sipples
this we have done. The customer is in a difficult economical situation and
the z9BC would have been three times as expensive as the used z800 which
is
already ordered. You can believe me that we have discussed all variations
with the customer and there was no way to sell a z9, which also IBM had to
accept with bruxism.

I'd echo Bruce's comments and (politely) suggest pricing out everything,
including the maintenance, software charges, etc.  The z9 BC has a 19%
lower MSU rating for the same LSPR performance so, quite simply, software
charges are lower every month.

But that wasn't enough for me to reply, since I assume you checked that
with your customer.  What could really have a dramatic effect is that you
said the customer runs DB2 in support of SAP.  I assume that SAP access is
external (either from SAP running on a distributed server or, what I
often recommend, SAP running on mainframe Linux and connecting via
HiperSocket).  If they can get at least to DB2 V8 within a reasonable
period of time they're likely going to benefit quite nicely from the zIIP
engine.  Please be sure to toss that into your financial calculations -- it
could be quite significant, especially if DB2 dominates their workload.
Crypto might be a factor, too, although that just got better if their needs
can be satisfied with the new encrypting TS1120 drive.

If the customer has a cash flow problem there's an excellent credit market.
IBM is certainly one of those IT finance companies, and it's a good
business arrangement for everyone involved.

Another thing people sometimes forget is that buying older technology
advances the date of replacement, and replacement itself has costs, mainly
of the labor sort, for installation, migration, etc.  Most customers don't
like to change stuff if they can avoid it, so one of the things I try to
recommend is finding ways of minimizing transition events (or building
durable architectures).  A System z9 BC is probably going to have about
four years' more useful service life than a z800.  There are a couple ways
to look at that.  One way is to calculate the cost of one additional
upgrade, an extra upgrade that would not have to take place going straight
to the newer model.  The other viewpoint is to calculate the net present
value of deferring an upgrade by four years.  (In other words, what's the
cost of money paid now versus paid in four years?)  Some accounting types
also calculate opportunity costs, which is to say that IT staff who have to
deal with an extra upgrade aren't able to do something else more valuable
to the business, like create some Web services with CICS or get the SAP
functional upgrade on mainframe Linux online sooner.

It's also worth noting that the z9 BC has far more precise capacity
settings (and more of them) than the z800, so depending on their workload
and their workload growth trajectory they could have some avoidable
expense.  And if they're at the upper reaches of the z800 capacity that
might not be a good place to be.

And you can run the numbers for the z890, too.  The z890 has 10% lower MSUs
for the same LSPR capacity, and no doubt the z890 acquisition price is
somewhere in between the z800's and z9 BC's.

I heard something about new European environmental regulations coming
online which prevent cross-border shipment of older mainframes (and other
older servers), but you've just learned all that I know about this.  I saw
something about that buried in the z9 BC specification list, so maybe you
know what impact that has (if any).

All that said, the z800 is a wonderful z/Architecture system and is
technically compatible with all mainframe code presently available.  It is
perhaps the most visually beautiful mainframe ever built.  I keep asking
for somebody to ship me their old one, but neither Fedex nor UPS have
delivered one to me yet.  Although I just learned one of my teammates has a
z900 in his personal basement data center.  I have no idea how he managed
to get one, but I must admit I'm jealous. :-)

I'll also toss in one argument in favor of doing a z800 upgrade.  In
certain circumstances they might be able to do the z800 upgrade now then
(especially coincident with a DB2 V8 upgrade), buy a second mainframe which
is zIIP capable.  Repurpose the z800 as a DR system on cold standby, and
bring DR in-house to potentially save some money there and improve their
business service availability.  Older models make excellent DR systems.
All depends on the timing, of course.

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z
Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Migration from 9672 to z800 with zOS 1.5

2006-09-08 Thread Bruce Black

I had to look up bruxism (grinding the teeth).

BTW, onelook.com is a great place to look up word definitions.  Gives 
you a quick definition plus links to dozens of other dictionaries.


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Bruce A. Black
Senior Software Developer for FDR
Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300
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sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Migration from 9672 to z800 with zOS 1.5

2006-09-08 Thread Pohlen (Mailinglist)
It makes me a bit proud, that a German can teach an American in English
;-))) But By the way, I haven't also heard this word before. I had looked it
up in a translation dictionary. To accept with bruxism is a saying in
Germany, if you have to accept something as a fact, but you don't like to do
it. Maybe that there is another expression in English. But regardless of
sayings and licensing issues I want to return to my entry question. Are
there any points I have to pay attention to when I want to change the
hardware for the current zOS 1.5 /  DB2 7.1 from the 9672 G5 to the z800
beside the PSP maintenance.

Any hints are welcome

regards

Franz Josef

- Original Message - 
From: Bruce Black [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Migration from 9672 to z800 with zOS 1.5


 I had to look up bruxism (grinding the teeth).

 BTW, onelook.com is a great place to look up word definitions.  Gives
 you a quick definition plus links to dozens of other dictionaries.

 -- 
 Bruce A. Black
 Senior Software Developer for FDR
 Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300
 personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com

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Re: Migration from 9672 to z800 with zOS 1.5

2006-09-07 Thread Bruce Black


one of my customers wants to replace his 9672 G5 by a z800.
I imagine he is getting a used z800 which might be pretty cheap.  But 
they might want to check out the prices on a small z9BC.  This will give 
them the latest hardware features plus assurance that it will run the 
latest op systems.  Will probably have improved performance as well


--
Bruce A. Black
Senior Software Developer for FDR
Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300
personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com

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Re: Migration from 9672 to z800 with zOS 1.5

2006-09-07 Thread Pohlen (Mailinglist)
this we have done. The customer is in a difficult economical situation and
the z9BC would have been three times as expensive as the used z800 which is
already ordered. You can believe me that we have discussed all variations
with the customer and there was no way to sell a z9, which also IBM had to
accept with bruxism.

- Original Message - 
From: Bruce Black [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Migration from 9672 to z800 with zOS 1.5


 
  one of my customers wants to replace his 9672 G5 by a z800.
 I imagine he is getting a used z800 which might be pretty cheap.  But
 they might want to check out the prices on a small z9BC.  This will give
 them the latest hardware features plus assurance that it will run the
 latest op systems.  Will probably have improved performance as well

 -- 
 Bruce A. Black
 Senior Software Developer for FDR
 Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300
 personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com

 --
 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
 send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
 Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html



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