Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-07 Thread Ron Hawkins
Natasa,

Are you fixing something that is not broken? What does it matter if the
dataset has 5, 10 or 50 extents. Reducing extents is not actually making
anything faster or more robust - especially if it is used by DFSORT.

If the dataset varies from 10-300 CYLS on a daily basis then I would suggest
1 of two options:

1) Allocate with SPACE=(CYL,(350,35),RLSE) or
2) Allocate with SPACE=(CYL,(50,50),RLSE)

In regards to your initial problem, is there anything that primes the
dataset with a record or open/closes the file before DFSORT accesses it. If
DFHSM is releasing the space then I would expect an empty dataset to go to
zero Primary and not one CYL. Auditing the Type1415 SMF records will give
you an idea of what is closing this file and releasing space.

Ron

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Natasa Savinc
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 6:47 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] SMS-releasing unused space
> 
> Daniel,
> 
> because the size of the dataset is one day 200 cyl, another day 300 cyl
> or
> more, and during the weekend 10 cly. When we had RLSE, number of
> extents
> was steadily growing.
> 
> Regards,
> Natasa
> 
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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-07 Thread Natasa Savinc
Tom,
we just overwrite it with the next run
Robert,
we don't have STOPX37, SRS or similar products. The attributes of MCNORLSE 
are :

Expire after Days Non-usage  . : NOLIMIT
Expire after Date/Days . . . . : NOLIMIT
Retention Limit  . . . . . . . : NOLIMIT

Partial Release . . . . . . : NO

Migration Attributes  
Primary Days Non-usage  . :
Level 1 Days Date/Days  . : 0  
Command or Auto Migrate . : COMMAND

Backup Attributes
Backup frequency  . . . . . . . . . . . : 0
Number of backup versions . . . . . . . : 2
 (Data Set Exists)   
Number of backup versions . . . . . . . : 1
 (Data Set Deleted)  
Retain days only backup version . . . . : 90   
 (Data Set Deleted)  
Retain days extra backup versions . . . : 90   

Admin or User Command Backup  . . . . . : BOTH 
Auto Backup . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : YES  
Backup copy technique . . . . . . . . . : STANDARD 

I allocated the dataset yesterday again, and made sure that it was allocated 
according to my specification: 200/20. Today, after it was populated with 
data, and after space mgmt, the dataset has still primary extent 200 cyl, used 
183, which is what I would expect. 

Regards,
Natasa

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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Clark Morris
On 6 May 2008 06:30:03 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

>Here is additional information:
>The dataset was allocated through ISPF panels (so there was no RLSE 
>parameter), in subsequent daily batch it is used with DISP=OLD, program is 
>ICEMAN. 

Unless things have changed, there is a RLSE parameter on the
Allocation panel which comes into play when the data set is closed in
ISPF.
>Management class MCNORLSE does not allow any migration, because those 
>datasets are used every day.
>Regarding fragmentation, there are some very fragmented volumes in this 
>storage group, but there were certainly volumes available that had 200 cyl 
>extent free.
>
>Regards,
>Natasa
>
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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Rick Fochtman

-
Storage space constraint relief could cause this which is why I 
suggested looking at fragmentation. I probably should have included 
amount of free space on the volume or in the SMS pool.


I submit that if there was enough free space to accumulate 11 secondary 
extents of 20 cylinders each that fragmentation or constraint relief are 
not issues here.


I, too, want to see the actual DD statement that made the allocation.

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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Richards, Robert B.
Natasa,

Can you show us the MCNORLSE attributes?

Also, do you have STOPX37, SRS or similar products? These products have
the ability to manipulate allocations.

Bob

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Natasa Savinc
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 9:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SMS-releasing unused space

John,
I will see about DAF, thank you for the information. The idea was to
allocate 
the dataset manually, in order to assign it new MC, and to avoid
changing 
daily batch and ACS routines. I allocated it again, and this time I
checked 
actual allocation:
General Data  Current Allocation 
Management class . . : MCNORLSE   Allocated cylinders : 200 
Storage class  . . . : MEDIUM Allocated extents . : 1   
Volume serial . . . : SSP100   
Device type . . . . : 3390 
Data class . . . . . : DCDYNV Current Utilization
Organization  . . . : PS Used cylinders  . . : 0   
Record format . . . : FB Used extents  . . . : 0   
Record length . . . : 3000
Block size  . . . . : 27000   
1st extent cylinders: 200
Secondary cylinders : 20 
Data set name type  :SMS Compressible  :   NO  

We'll see what happens tomorrow. 

Regards,
Natasa

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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Tom Marchant
On Tue, 6 May 2008 08:46:53 -0500, Natasa Savinc wrote:

>
>because the size of the dataset is one day 200 cyl, another day 300 cyl or
>more, and during the weekend 10 cly. When we had RLSE, number of extents
>was steadily growing.

You reuse this data set?

How do you empty it to prepare for the next run?  Perhaps that is what is 
releasing the space.

-- 
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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Natasa Savinc
Daniel,
allocation was 200/20. My question was something like "where did this 1 come 
from?"

Regards,
Natasa

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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Natasa Savinc
John,
I will see about DAF, thank you for the information. The idea was to allocate 
the dataset manually, in order to assign it new MC, and to avoid changing 
daily batch and ACS routines. I allocated it again, and this time I checked 
actual allocation:
General Data  Current Allocation 
Management class . . : MCNORLSE   Allocated cylinders : 200 
Storage class  . . . : MEDIUM Allocated extents . : 1   
Volume serial . . . : SSP100   
Device type . . . . : 3390 
Data class . . . . . : DCDYNV Current Utilization
Organization  . . . : PS Used cylinders  . . : 0   
Record format . . . : FB Used extents  . . . : 0   
Record length . . . : 3000
Block size  . . . . : 27000   
1st extent cylinders: 200
Secondary cylinders : 20 
Data set name type  :SMS Compressible  :   NO  

We'll see what happens tomorrow. 

Regards,
Natasa

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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Daniel McLaughlin
If that is known then 1 cylinder primary is automatically too small. Why 
nott 20/200?

Daniel McLaughlin
Z-Series Systems Programmer
Information & Communications Technology
Crawford & Company
4680 N. Royal Atlanta
Tucker GA 30084 
phone: 770-621-3256 
fax: 770-621-3237
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.crawfordandcompany.com 



IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on 05/06/2008 
09:46:53 AM:

> -- Information from the mail header 
> ---
> Sender:   IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> Poster:   Natasa Savinc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject:  Re: SMS-releasing unused space
> 
---
> 
> Daniel,
> 
> because the size of the dataset is one day 200 cyl, another day 300 cyl 
or 
> more, and during the weekend 10 cly. When we had RLSE, number of extents 

> was steadily growing.
> 
> Regards,
> Natasa
> 
> --
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> 
> 



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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Tom Marchant
On Tue, 6 May 2008 09:05:34 -0400, John Kington wrote:

>Tom Marchant wrote:
>>
>>I think it's unlikely that the volume is so fragmented that the first
>>extent allocated was only 1 cylinder, but that he was able to 
>>obtain a total of 220 cylinders in 12 extents.  It is especially 
>>unlikely considering that the secondary allocation is 20 cylinders.
>
>My understanding is that allocation is using first fit strategy and the
>first extent could be only one cylinder if the next four extents equal or
>exceed 249 cylinders. 

First fit may very well be the strategy that is used, but DADSM tries to 
provide 
the primary allocation in one extent.  I always thought that when the primary 
allocation had to be done in multiple extents that the first extent is the 
largest.  Perhaps someone will correct me if I'm mistaken.

>The primary allocation amount for nonvsam datasets is
>not retained after the creating job completes.

That is true.

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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Natasa Savinc
Daniel,

because the size of the dataset is one day 200 cyl, another day 300 cyl or  
more, and during the weekend 10 cly. When we had RLSE, number of extents 
was steadily growing.

Regards,
Natasa

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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread John Kington
Natasa,

> Here is additional information:
> The dataset was allocated through ISPF panels (so there was no RLSE
> parameter), in subsequent daily batch it is used with DISP=OLD, program
is
> ICEMAN.
> Management class MCNORLSE does not allow any migration, because those
> datasets are used every day.
> Regarding fragmentation, there are some very fragmented volumes in this
> storage group, but there were certainly volumes available that had 200
cyl
> extent free.
I would highly recommend getting Dataset Audit Facility (DAF) from
cbttape.org and run the SMF records through it to build a history of the
dataset. This history might tell you what happened and when.

Since you appear to be allocating these datasets manually, can you check
the space information just after you create them?
Regards,
John

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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Daniel McLaughlin
It sounds up front as if the allocation was not estimated well enough in 
advance. Why not the 20 cylinders primary and 20 cylinders secondary with 
a RLSE?

Daniel McLaughlin
Z-Series Systems Programmer
Information & Communications Technology
Crawford & Company
4680 N. Royal Atlanta
Tucker GA 30084 
phone: 770-621-3256 
fax: 770-621-3237
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.crawfordandcompany.com 



IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on 05/06/2008 
09:29:33 AM:

> -- Information from the mail header 
> ---
> Sender:   IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> Poster:   Natasa Savinc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject:  Re: SMS-releasing unused space
> 
---
> 
> Here is additional information:
> The dataset was allocated through ISPF panels (so there was no RLSE 
> parameter), in subsequent daily batch it is used with DISP=OLD, program 
is 
> ICEMAN. 
> Management class MCNORLSE does not allow any migration, because those 
> datasets are used every day.
> Regarding fragmentation, there are some very fragmented volumes in this 
> storage group, but there were certainly volumes available that had 200 
cyl 
> extent free.
> 
> Regards,
> Natasa
> 
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> 
> 



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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Natasa Savinc
Here is additional information:
The dataset was allocated through ISPF panels (so there was no RLSE 
parameter), in subsequent daily batch it is used with DISP=OLD, program is 
ICEMAN. 
Management class MCNORLSE does not allow any migration, because those 
datasets are used every day.
Regarding fragmentation, there are some very fragmented volumes in this 
storage group, but there were certainly volumes available that had 200 cyl 
extent free.

Regards,
Natasa

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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread John Kington
Tom,

> On Tue, 6 May 2008 08:25:42 -0400, John Kington wrote:
>
> >Natasa wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Hello,
> >> in order to prevent releasing of unused space for some datasets, I
> >> allocated it
> >> yesterday with MC that has Partial release parameter set to 'No'.
> >However,
> >> today when I look at some of those datasets, they look like the space
was
> >
> >> first released (primary extent is 1 cyl, allocated was 200), and then
as
> >the
> >> data was loaded it took 11 secondary extents. This is exactly what I
> >wanted
> >> to prevent. Can someone explain to me how this happened?
> >>
> >> General Data  Current Allocation
> >> Management class . . : MCNORLSE   Allocated cylinders : 221
> >> Storage class  . . . : MEDIUM Allocated extents . : 12
> >> Volume serial . . . : SSP122
> >> Device type . . . . : 3390
> >> Data class . . . . . : DCDYNV Current Utilization
> >> Organization  . . . : PS Used cylinders  . . : 204
> >> Record format . . . : FB Used extents  . . . : 12
> >> Record length . . . : 3000
> >> Block size  . . . . : 27000
> >> 1st extent cylinders: 1
> >> Secondary cylinders : 20
> >> Data set name type  :SMS Compressible  :   NO
> >>
> >
> >The fact that the allocated cylinders is greater than the used cylinders
> >(221 > 204) leads me to believe that space was not released from the
> >dataset (allocated cylinders would equal used cylinders). The 1st extent
is
> >just the size of the first extent and not the primary space allocation
> >amount. Each allocation can be up to five extents, even more if you are
> >using the storage space constraint relief features of SMS. I recommend
you
> >look at the fragmentation index on your volume(s) and run some defrags.
>
> I think it's unlikely that the volume is so fragmented that the first
extent
> allocated was only 1 cylinder, but that he was able to obtain a total of
220
> cylinders in 12 extents.  It is especially unlikely considering that
> the secondary
> allocation is 20 cylinders.
My understanding is that allocation is using first fit strategy and the
first extent could be only one cylinder if the next four extents equal or
exceed 249 cylinders. The primary allocation amount for nonvsam datasets is
not retained after the creating job completes.
>
> It is more likely that something caused the primary allocation to be
> 1 cylinder
> with 11 secondary allocations of 20 cylinders each.
Storage space constraint relief could cause this which is why I suggested
looking at fragmentation. I probably should have included amount of free
space on the volume or in the SMS pool.
>
> There is not enough information to guess how this might have happened.
>
I agree. If the OP has access to Dataset Audit Facility (DAF) from
cbttape.org, the tale could be told.
Regards,
John

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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C]
Natasa,
 
Could you post the DD statement that created the file? I suspect we'll find a 
RLSE coded with the Space parameter. 



 

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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Tue, 6 May 2008 08:25:42 -0400, John Kington wrote:

>Natasa,
>
>
>> Hello,
>> in order to prevent releasing of unused space for some datasets, I
>> allocated it
>> yesterday with MC that has Partial release parameter set to 'No'.
>However,
>> today when I look at some of those datasets, they look like the space was
>
>> first released (primary extent is 1 cyl, allocated was 200), and then as
>the
>> data was loaded it took 11 secondary extents. This is exactly what I
>wanted
>> to prevent. Can someone explain to me how this happened?
>>
>> General Data  Current Allocation
>> Management class . . : MCNORLSE   Allocated cylinders : 221
>> Storage class  . . . : MEDIUM Allocated extents . : 12
>> Volume serial . . . : SSP122
>> Device type . . . . : 3390
>> Data class . . . . . : DCDYNV Current Utilization
>> Organization  . . . : PS Used cylinders  . . : 204
>> Record format . . . : FB Used extents  . . . : 12
>> Record length . . . : 3000
>> Block size  . . . . : 27000
>> 1st extent cylinders: 1
>> Secondary cylinders : 20
>> Data set name type  :SMS Compressible  :   NO
>
>The fact that the allocated cylinders is greater than the used cylinders
>(221 > 204) leads me to believe that space was not released from the
>dataset (allocated cylinders would equal used cylinders). The 1st extent is
>just the size of the first extent and not the primary space allocation
>amount. Each allocation can be up to five extents, even more if you are
>using the storage space constraint relief features of SMS. I recommend you
>look at the fragmentation index on your volume(s) and run some defrags.
>
It seems implausible that if the volume is so fragmented that only one
cylinder was available for the first extent, 20 cylinders were available
for each of 11 following extents.  Other possibilities:

o The data set was migrated and recalled between allocation and use.

o You didn't say what program populated the data set.  I have an open
  PMR on very similar misbehavior by /bin/cp which has resulted in
  New Function APAR PK64372.  (Development saw no way to repair the
  problem without changing a default behavior.)

-- gil

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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Faber, Hermann
Natasa,

>in order to prevent releasing of unused space for some datasets, I
allocated it 
>yesterday with MC that has Partial release parameter set to 'No'.
However, 
>today when I look at some of those datasets, they look like the space
was 
>first released (primary extent is 1 cyl, allocated was 200), and then
as the 
>data was loaded it took 11 secondary extents. This is exactly what I
wanted 
>to prevent. Can someone explain to me how this happened?

Is it possible that the data set was migrated/recalled before loading? 

>From DFSMShsm Storage Administration Guide:

2.  The PARTIAL RELEASE attribute does not apply to normal migration and

recall processing.

 
 

Related reading: For more information about migration and recall space

allocation, see "Additional Space Management during Migration and Recall

When DFSMShsm Is the Data Mover" in topic 2.1.21.7.


Regards,
Hermann

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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Tom Marchant
On Tue, 6 May 2008 08:25:42 -0400, John Kington wrote:

>Natasa wrote:
>
>
>> Hello,
>> in order to prevent releasing of unused space for some datasets, I
>> allocated it
>> yesterday with MC that has Partial release parameter set to 'No'.
>However,
>> today when I look at some of those datasets, they look like the space was
>
>> first released (primary extent is 1 cyl, allocated was 200), and then as
>the
>> data was loaded it took 11 secondary extents. This is exactly what I
>wanted
>> to prevent. Can someone explain to me how this happened?
>>
>> General Data  Current Allocation
>> Management class . . : MCNORLSE   Allocated cylinders : 221
>> Storage class  . . . : MEDIUM Allocated extents . : 12
>> Volume serial . . . : SSP122
>> Device type . . . . : 3390
>> Data class . . . . . : DCDYNV Current Utilization
>> Organization  . . . : PS Used cylinders  . . : 204
>> Record format . . . : FB Used extents  . . . : 12
>> Record length . . . : 3000
>> Block size  . . . . : 27000
>> 1st extent cylinders: 1
>> Secondary cylinders : 20
>> Data set name type  :SMS Compressible  :   NO
>>
>
>The fact that the allocated cylinders is greater than the used cylinders
>(221 > 204) leads me to believe that space was not released from the
>dataset (allocated cylinders would equal used cylinders). The 1st extent is
>just the size of the first extent and not the primary space allocation
>amount. Each allocation can be up to five extents, even more if you are
>using the storage space constraint relief features of SMS. I recommend you
>look at the fragmentation index on your volume(s) and run some defrags.

I think it's unlikely that the volume is so fragmented that the first extent 
allocated was only 1 cylinder, but that he was able to obtain a total of 220 
cylinders in 12 extents.  It is especially unlikely considering that the 
secondary 
allocation is 20 cylinders.

It is more likely that something caused the primary allocation to be 1 cylinder 
with 11 secondary allocations of 20 cylinders each.

There is not enough information to guess how this might have happened.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread John Kington
Natasa,


> Hello,
> in order to prevent releasing of unused space for some datasets, I
> allocated it
> yesterday with MC that has Partial release parameter set to 'No'.
However,
> today when I look at some of those datasets, they look like the space was

> first released (primary extent is 1 cyl, allocated was 200), and then as
the
> data was loaded it took 11 secondary extents. This is exactly what I
wanted
> to prevent. Can someone explain to me how this happened?
>
> General Data  Current Allocation
> Management class . . : MCNORLSE   Allocated cylinders : 221
> Storage class  . . . : MEDIUM Allocated extents . : 12
> Volume serial . . . : SSP122
> Device type . . . . : 3390
> Data class . . . . . : DCDYNV Current Utilization
> Organization  . . . : PS Used cylinders  . . : 204
> Record format . . . : FB Used extents  . . . : 12
> Record length . . . : 3000
> Block size  . . . . : 27000
> 1st extent cylinders: 1
> Secondary cylinders : 20
> Data set name type  :SMS Compressible  :   NO
>
> Regards,
> Natasa
>
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The fact that the allocated cylinders is greater than the used cylinders
(221 > 204) leads me to believe that space was not released from the
dataset (allocated cylinders would equal used cylinders). The 1st extent is
just the size of the first extent and not the primary space allocation
amount. Each allocation can be up to five extents, even more if you are
using the storage space constraint relief features of SMS. I recommend you
look at the fragmentation index on your volume(s) and run some defrags.
Regards,
John

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SMS-releasing unused space

2008-05-06 Thread Natasa Savinc
Hello,
in order to prevent releasing of unused space for some datasets, I allocated it 
yesterday with MC that has Partial release parameter set to 'No'. However, 
today when I look at some of those datasets, they look like the space was 
first released (primary extent is 1 cyl, allocated was 200), and then as the 
data was loaded it took 11 secondary extents. This is exactly what I wanted 
to prevent. Can someone explain to me how this happened?

General Data  Current Allocation 
Management class . . : MCNORLSE   Allocated cylinders : 221 
Storage class  . . . : MEDIUM Allocated extents . : 12  
Volume serial . . . : SSP122   
Device type . . . . : 3390 
Data class . . . . . : DCDYNV Current Utilization
Organization  . . . : PS Used cylinders  . . : 204 
Record format . . . : FB Used extents  . . . : 12  
Record length . . . : 3000
Block size  . . . . : 27000   
1st extent cylinders: 1  
Secondary cylinders : 20 
Data set name type  :SMS Compressible  :   NO  

Regards,
Natasa

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