Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <4b5b4230.8060...@bremultibank.com.pl>, on 01/23/2010
   at 07:38 PM, "R.S."  said:

>Well... I remember Ronald Reagan, I know what White House is, but 
>neither I know Ollie North, nor I know what is PROFS and what is 
>relationship of VM to Ronald Reagan.

Google for "Iran Contra". Oliver North destroyed various incriminationg
e-mails in PROFS[1[, but wasn't familiar with the concept of backups.

[1] PROFS was an office application for VM. 
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well.


l...@garlic.com (Anne & Lynn Wheeler) writes:
> also, customers were finding that a vm/4341 cluster was cheaper than
> 3033, higher aggregate mip rate, much larger aggregate storage, and
> higher aggregate i/o capacity. There is folklore, that because of the
> above ... at one point, POK directed Fishkill to cut the Endicott
> allocation in half for a critical component needed for 4341
> manufacturing.
>
> One of the things that was happening by the mid-70s ... as processing
> power was increasing ... disk thruput improvements weren't keeping pace
> with processor speed improvements. as a result, systems were having to
> rely more & more on larger & larger electronic storage ... to compensate
> for the growing disk i/o bottleneck. 370s were stuck with 24bit
> addressing and 16mbyte virtual and real storage ... which resulted in
> significant constrained operation for many 3033s.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#87 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#88 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#96 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)

recent post also mentioning vm/4341 cluster support
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#90 Happy DEC-10 Day

and various vm/4341 cluster-wide operations going from small subsecond
elapsed time to 30secs (or more) when forced to migrate to SNA for
customer release.

i had done dynamic adaptive resource management and something I called
"scheduling to the bottleneck" as undergraduate in the 60s ... so was
sensitized to being constantly on the lookout for changing bottleneck
conditions. as a result, it wasn't unusual to find by the mid-70s,
bottleneck was shifting to disk i/o ... and real storage was more and
more being leveraged to compensate for the disk i/o bottleneck.

by the early 80s, I had made statements about relative system disk thruput
had declined by order of magnitude over period of years ... old post
with comparison from the early 80 period:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#31 Big I/O or Kicking the Mainframe out the 
Door

i.e. the growth in cms users from cp67 on 360/67 to vm370 on 3081
should have been from 80 to something like 4000 ... instead of
typically 300 (the ratio of 80:300 is more like change in disk
thruput).

disk division executives tasked their performance group to refute the
statement ... but after a few weeks they came back and said that I had
slightly understated the problem. the spin on the analysis was then
changed to be recommendations on disk configuration to maximize system
thruput ... and turned into share presentation (B874 @ SHARE 63,
8/18/84). some past references
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#18 AS/400 and MVS - clarification please
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#46 AS/400 and MVS - clarification please
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#3 using 3390 mod-9s
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#68 DASD Response Time (on antique 3390?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007s.html#5 Poster of computer hardware events?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007s.html#9 Poster of computer hardware events?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#88 CPU time differences for the same job
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#71 308x Processors - was "Mainframe 
articles"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#7 My Vintage Dream PC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009k.html#34 A Complete History Of Mainframe 
Computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009k.html#52 Hercules; more information requested
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009l.html#67 ACP, One of the Oldest Open Source 
Apps

in the period between 3330/3350 and 3380 there was also software
technologies about disk thruput ... basically analysing traces of disk
record accesses ...  and generating profiles for re-allocation for
better arm balance and concurrent operation. One such application was
then modified for specifying allocation for moving from 3330/3350 to
3380s. Sort of guideline was that 3380s had to be limited to 80%
allocation in order to avoid degrading thruput compared to same data
spread across 3330/3350 configuration (i.e. 3380 byte capacity
increased by much larger factor then 3380 performance increase).

another disk activity "trace" technology was extremely lightweight,
originally used as part of electronic cache modeling. one finding was
that given fixed amount of electornic cache ... using it for a single
large system cache was better than dividing/partitioning it into
channel, controller, and/or disk specific caches. Some work was then
done on the lightweight activity trace regarding incorporating into
standard system allocation ... for choosing optimal distribution of
data (of course lots

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Rick Fochtman]

I remember much of it vividly, since Nixon was the president when I got 
drafted into the Army.


On January 22, 1973, he went on nation-wide TV and announced that there 
would be no more draft into the Armed Forces of the United States. That 
was also the day I got my promotion to Sergeant First Class and orders 
to transfer from Nha Trang to Saigon, both major base complexes in South 
Viet Nam. I was ready to rip him from a##hole to appetite with a very 
rusty and jagged bayonette. Needless to say, I wasn't happy with him, or 
his predecessors, who had put me there to begin with.


Hope you enjoy a happy, healthy and prosperous New Year. :-)

Rick
-
Ron Hawkins wrote:


Rick,

I have to admit to knowing only bits and pieces of the Watergate affair.
Australia was having its own constitutional crisis at the time when possibly
the worst Government in our short history was dismissed.

Some Aussies still have not calmed down...

Ron

 


Ron, I tend to agree with that viewpoint.

Consider this: most of the heads that got rolled over Watergate had
pretty much been settled by August of 1974, when Nixon resigned.

I have to admit that I turned purple with anger when Mr. Ford pardonned
Mr. Nixon. But I calmed down when I heard the reasoning that Mr. Ford
presented in justification.

Rick

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
   



--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
.

 




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Ron Hawkins]

Rick,

I have to admit to knowing only bits and pieces of the Watergate affair.
Australia was having its own constitutional crisis at the time when possibly
the worst Government in our short history was dismissed.

Some Aussies still have not calmed down...

Ron

> Ron, I tend to agree with that viewpoint.
> 
> Consider this: most of the heads that got rolled over Watergate had
> pretty much been settled by August of 1974, when Nixon resigned.
> 
> I have to admit that I turned purple with anger when Mr. Ford pardonned
> Mr. Nixon. But I calmed down when I heard the reasoning that Mr. Ford
> presented in justification.
> 
> Rick
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Rick Fochtman]

Ron Hawkins wrote:


Ed,

Let me go fetch a grain of salt.

And you want me to believe that in 1970 there was OS/360 running with ESCON
connected to 3330 DASD drives deep under the White House.

And that IBM lab was the one with the Electron Microscope.

I'm sort of amazed that in 1974 IBM could reconstruct overwritten DASD
tracks from the White house, but they could not recover 18 minutes of audio
tape!!! Perhaps they should have sent those to IBM as well.

I honestly believe your friend was pulling your leg (to put it nicely).

Ron


-
Ron, I tend to agree with that viewpoint.

Consider this: most of the heads that got rolled over Watergate had 
pretty much been settled by August of 1974, when Nixon resigned.


I have to admit that I turned purple with anger when Mr. Ford pardonned 
Mr. Nixon. But I calmed down when I heard the reasoning that Mr. Ford 
presented in justification.


Rick

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well.


there seems to be some hiccup with this recent post (I did twice)
between the mailing list and usenet (missing on usenet, but I finally
checked mailing list archive; I read on usenet, but post to the mailing
list).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#99 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)

also small ending piece snipped from previous email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#email790429

Date: 04/29/79 16:39:03
From: wheeler

<< lots & lots of stuff snipped >>

 One more thing about Endicott, their datacenter production VM
system is so backlevel, they asked about SJRL's VM system. There were
tentative plans made for some Endicott people to come out to SJRL and
pick up our floor system for installation in Endicott. Some of this in
light of the hardware error recovery that we have been adding,
especially in response to the problems in the DASD engineering labs
but also to normal problems we have here.

... snip ...

old email (year later) about sjr/vm distribution
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#email800429
in this post (also contains several other old email pieces)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#26 Assembler question

other past references to SJR/VM system
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#51 Special characters in passwords was 
Re: RACF - Password rules
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#12 Special characters in passwords was 
Re: RACF - Password rules
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#46 Whitehouse Emails Were Lost Due to 
"Upgrade"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#39 The Internet's 100 Oldest Dot-Com 
Domains
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#35 SEs & History Lessons

they let me play engineer over in bldgs. 14&15 ... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk

they had been running stand-alone testing of engineering/development
hardware (several dedicated, stand-alone 370s). At one time they had
tried to use MVS in the environment, but had experienced 15min MTBF.
I undertook to completely rewrite i/o supervisor so that it would
never fail and they could concurrently test several devices (on
demand, instead of the around-the-clock stand-alone testing that they
were doing).

Mentioning the 15min MTBF in a purely internal-only report, brought the
wrath of the MVS group down on my head ... but seems small in comparison
to the effort to cut allocation to endicott for building 4341s.

in any case, endicott datacenter people never came out, i think
somebody got around to how would it look if endicott datacenter was
running one of my vm systems.

I've mentioned before that after demise to future system,
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

there was mad rush to get stuff (hardware & software) back into the
370 product pipeline ... as well as getting around to kicking off XA
effort (eventually "811" from the date on the hardware architecture
documents). POK then made the case to corporate that in order to make
the mvs/xa ship schedule, had to kill vm370, shutdown the vm370
development group and move all the people to POK ... a couple
recent posts:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#37 Happy DEC-10 Day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#44 sysout using machine control instead 
of ANSI control

Endicott eventually managed to save the vm370 product mission (seeing
the leading edge of what was to become the vm midrange explosion), but
had to reconstitute a group from scratch. By the time of the above
email, they were still ramping up.

misc. other posts in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#87 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#88 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#96 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#97 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#98 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)

-- 
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar1970

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Ron Hawkins]

Ed,

Let me go fetch a grain of salt.

And you want me to believe that in 1970 there was OS/360 running with ESCON
connected to 3330 DASD drives deep under the White House.

And that IBM lab was the one with the Electron Microscope.

I'm sort of amazed that in 1974 IBM could reconstruct overwritten DASD
tracks from the White house, but they could not recover 18 minutes of audio
tape!!! Perhaps they should have sent those to IBM as well.

I honestly believe your friend was pulling your leg (to put it nicely).

Ron

> also told me about the computer room deep underneath the White House that
> housed the IBM system(s). He told me they were using fiber optics for
channels
> at least 10 years before they became generally available to us.
> 
> Like I said he did not go into specifics on a lot of the recovery and I
> assumed it was "secret". I did ask a few questions and phrased them as
what
> if's so as not to try and get into trouble. I do remember distinctly that
IBM
> was really involved in attempting to get the data back and they did take
the
> drives back to the labs (at least the ones that contained data). I do not
> remember if this was in CA or NY to be honest.
> 

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Ed Gould]

--SNIP-,

I think your friend watched too many James Bond movies, or was putting the
wrong sugar tabs in his coffee. While many have waxed lyrical about the
theory of doing this by reading the edges of a track, it has never been done
successfully (at least in the public domain). Either that, or he was
carrying a Scanning Tunneling Microscope around in his pocket. 

Ron

Ron:

He was always truthful with me. So I have no reason not to believe him. BTW he 
also told me about the computer room deep underneath the White House that 
housed the IBM system(s). He told me they were using fiber optics for channels 
at least 10 years before they became generally available to us.

Like I said he did not go into specifics on a lot of the recovery and I assumed 
it was "secret". I did ask a few questions and phrased them as what if's so as 
not to try and get into trouble. I do remember distinctly that IBM was really 
involved in attempting to get the data back and they did take the drives back 
to the labs (at least the ones that contained data). I do not remember if this 
was in CA or NY to be honest.

Subsequently I lost track of him and did not reconnect until a reunion a few 
years back and I learned that his wife had passed away so that put a damper on 
the conversation for the evening.

Ed




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
  

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Ed Gould]

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Sat, January 23, 2010 8:33:36 AM
Subject: Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)
---SNIP--
there have been past stories about some companies nearly being taken
down ... when it was discovered that backup process wasn't actually
writing anything on the tapes.

there are some federal standards for overwritting as countermeasure
to such recovery
-SNIP

Here is a true story that everybody might enjoy.
Place: Large Hospital
Systems: MVS & VM

One night there were two tape drives down so the backup for the VM (yes they 
backed it up from MVS with FDR).
So the boss gets a telephone call telling him that there weren't enough tape 
drives to run this one backup job.
So the boss tells the operator to delete  some DD cards that point to the VM 
volumes and rerun.
Fast forward 3 years and one day the VM drives had a hard error. So they went 
for the backups and there were none to be had.
The VM system was down (hard as you might say).
The boss had never told him the operator to save the JCL just to submit it (at 
least that how he told it).
So we have 100+ VM users (who essentially used it for editing and JCL 
submission could no longer do their job.
I had to quick come up with an ISPF class for the VM people and give it to all 
the people.

IS really got a black eye on that fiasco (deservedly) but they did end up 
saving the bucks for VM :)

Ed




--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
  

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

bbreynolds  writes:
> Was that a component which was shared by the 3033? Something
> unique to the the 4341? I know that IBM's internal politics were
> sometimes off the wall, but that folklore seems extreme.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#87 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#88 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#96 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#97 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#98 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)

Really long email ... heavily edited. Mostly trip report about extended
east coast trip hitting several places.

Date: 04/29/79 16:39:03
From: wheeler

<< lots & lots of stuff snipped >>

 While I was in Endicott, I think I talked them into putting me on
the distribution list for VM functional spec. documents. After the
visit to Endicott, we went by Cornell Univ. for an afternoon/evening.
They had a number of interesting things to say. We have talked before
about doing a joint study with them on their mini-disk manager. They
finally asked x about it at the last Share meeting. He hemmed and
hawed around for a long time not sounding very hopeful and finally
said any such undertaking has to be approved by Y. *MIT Prof* was
also there giving a seminar for a week or 2. They had a funny story to
tell. On the 1st day *MIT Prof* had some not very complimentary things to
say about Cornell's comp. science department. They took him aside at
lunch and told him that wasn't exactly the correct thing to do. He
apparently held his tongue for a whole week.  Finally he had the
opportunity to state that if all computers at Cornell were destroyed
the computer science department would never know about it.

 After Cornell we went by Kingston and then POK. In both Endicott
and POK had some very interesting discussions about confidential stuff
that is going on. In Endicott especially, there was even a hardware
modification design session which I think we work some stuff
out. Finally found out what *head-of-POK* was going to do about the
4341. I all along thot he would force Endicott into slowing the
machine down. I guess he couldn't come with a way. He did come up with
something that is probably even more effective tho.  He somehow
arraigned for the East Fishkill plant to cut their hardware output
allocation to Endicott in half. There were comments that *head-of-POK*
was called several choice names. Endicott still may win tho.

<< lots & lots of stuff snipped >>

... snip ...

Had pretty close working relationship with Cornell over the years, for
other drift when we were ramping up to do the NSFNET backbone (before
internal politics shut us down) ... Cornell was one of the players; old
email reference
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#email860505
in this post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#56 Ranking of non-IBM mainframe builders?

misc. old NSFNET-related email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet

tcp/ip is the technology basis for the modern internet but NSFNET
backbone was the operational basis for the modern internet (and CIX was
the business basis for the modern internet).

The director of NSF attempted to help out writing a letter to couple
people in the corporation (copying the CEO), but that just aggravated
the internal politics ... recent reference:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#42 The 50th Anniversary of the Legendary 
IBM 1401

-- 
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar1970

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

bbreynolds  writes:
> Was that a component which was shared by the 3033? Something
> unique to the the 4341? I know that IBM's internal politics were
> sometimes off the wall, but that folklore seems extreme.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#87 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#88 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#96 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#97 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#98 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)

Really long email ... heavily edited. Mostly trip report about extended
east coast trip hitting several places.

Date: 04/29/79 16:39:03
From: wheeler

<< lots & lots of stuff snipped >>

 While I was in Endicott, I think I talked them into putting me on
the distribution list for VM functional spec. documents. After the
visit to Endicott, we went by Cornell Univ. for an afternoon/evening.
They had a number of interesting things to say. We have talked before
about doing a joint study with them on their mini-disk manager. They
finally asked x about it at the last Share meeting. He hemmed and
hawed around for a long time not sounding very hopeful and finally
said any such undertaking has to be approved by Y. AA was
also there giving a seminar for a week or 2. They had a funny story to
tell. On the 1st day A had some not very complimentary things to
say about Cornell's comp. science department. They took him aside at
lunch and told him that wasn't exactly the correct thing to do. He
apparently held his tongue for a whole week.  Finally he had the
opportunity to state that if all computers at Cornell were destroyed
the computer science department would never know about it.

 After Cornell we went by Kingston and then POK. In both Endicott
and POK had some very interesting discussions about confidential stuff
that is going on. In Endicott especially, there was even a hardware
modification design session which I think we work some stuff
out. Finally found out what *head-of-POK* was going to do about the
4341. I all along thot he would force Endicott into slowing the
machine down. I guess he couldn't come with a way. He did come up with
something that is probably even more effective tho.  He somehow
arraigned for the East Fishkill plant to cut their hardware output
allocation to Endicott in half. There were comments that *head-of-POK*
was called several choice names. Endicott still may win tho.

<< lots & lots of stuff snipped >>

... snip ...

Had pretty close working relationship with Cornell over the years, for
other drift when we were ramping up to do the NSFNET backbone (before
internal politics shut us down) ... Cornell was one of the players; old
email reference
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#email860505
in this post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#56 Ranking of non-IBM mainframe builders?

misc. old NSFNET-related email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet

tcp/ip is the technology basis for the modern internet but NSFNET
backbone was the operational basis for the modern internet (and CIX was
the business basis for the modern internet).

The director of NSF attempted to help out writing a letter to couple
people in the corporation (copying the CEO), but that just aggravated
the internal politics ... recent reference:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#42 The 50th Anniversary of the Legendary 
IBM 1401

-- 
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar1970

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

l...@garlic.com (Anne & Lynn Wheeler) writes:
> Originally mentioned old email
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#email790404
> in 
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#12 Multics Nostalgia

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#87 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#88 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#96 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#97 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)

above example is branch office person using the (vm-based, world-wide
sales&marketing) HONE system to send me email ... misc. past HONE
references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone

providing highly enhanced systems to internal locations was one of my
hobbies ... and HONE was regular customer.

I previously mentioned VMSHARE ... online computer conferencing system
offered to SHARE (starting aug76)
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/

not a lot of employees got direct access to VMSHARE ... so I set up
processes that TYMSHARE would regularly send me complete dump of all
VMSHARE (and later, PCSHARE) files ... and I would put them up on
several internal systems, including HONE. Another example, somebody from
branch office in Kuwait sending me email (regarding VMSHARE info)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#email830227

other internal email (from Paris) ... this time about PCSHARE
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#email821214
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#email821217

Paris-La Defense was one of the first overseas system installations I
was involved in, when EMEA hdqtrs moved from the states in the early 70s
(back then, overseas links weren't so pervasive, so it was lot harder to
figure out how to logon back home to read email).

The above was small part of what got me blamed for computer conferencing
on the internal network in the late 70s and early 80s ... misc. past
posts mentioning internal network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet

-- 
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar1970

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl (R.S.) writes:
> Well... I remember Ronald Reagan, I know what White House is, but
> neither I know Ollie North, nor I know what is PROFS and what is
> relationship of VM to Ronald Reagan.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#87 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#88 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#96 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)

vm systems all over the federal gov. ... and (VM) PROFS email
in several gov. agencies ... including the executive branch.
other recent posts mentioning PROFS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#8 Happy DEC-10 Day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#44 sysout using machine control instead 
of ANSI control

Ollie North reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North

there was congressional investigation and supposedly some amount of
evidence came from email archives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra_affair

slightly related
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#63 Source code for s/360 [PUBLIC]

reference to virtual machine systems back to 60s & cp67:
http://www.nsa.gov/research/selinux/list-archive/0409/8362.shtml

later example
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#email790404b
in this post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#15 departmental servers

from various 43xx email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#43xx

where possible AFDS twenty vm/4341 order grew to 210.

Originally mentioned old email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#email790404
in 
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#12 Multics Nostalgia

which was small needle regarding AFDS & having been an early Multics
strong-hold. Some of the CTSS people had gone to the 5th flr and
Multics; others had gone to the science center on the 4th flr and did
virtual machine systems (initially cp40, which morphed into cp67 and
later vm370). Multics sites
http://www.multicians.org/sites.html
AFDS
http://www.multicians.org/site-afdsc.html

for other drift ... reference to an IBM paper:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#42 Thirty Years Later: Lessons from the 
Multics Security Evaluation

originally here ... but since gone 404
domino.watson.ibm.com/library/cyberdig.nsf/papers/FDEFBEBC9DD3E35485256C2C004B0F0D/$File/RC22534.pdf

Multics reference to above as well as the original study:
http://www.multicians.org/security.html

-- 
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar1970

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[R.S.]

W dniu 2010-01-22 20:11, Tony Harminc pisze:

2010-01-22 R.S.:


Best guess I've heard recently is something like 4000 z/OS, 1500 z/VM,
1500 z/VSE, under 100 z/TPF. But those are clearly darts; the rankings
are about right, but that's the only part I'd bank on. And barely
that...


I would like to see the numbers above with avg MIPS for every kind of OS. I
guess that MIPS number is much higher for TPF and z/OS and quite low for
VSE. Last but not least: I do not expect to much (any?) customer with z/VM
and no other OS. Including zLinux.


Right. And when VM had 20,000 licences, most of them were running
PROFS on CMS. (Remember the Reagan White House, and Ollie North...)


Well... I remember Ronald Reagan, I know what White House is, but 
neither I know Ollie North, nor I know what is PROFS and what is 
relationship of VM to Ronald Reagan.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


--
BRE Bank SA
ul. Senatorska 18
00-950 Warszawa
www.brebank.pl

Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy 
XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, 
nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237

NIP: 526-021-50-88
Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2009 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci 
wpacony) wynosi 118.763.528 zotych. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego 
podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchway XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 
2008r., oraz uchway XVI NWZ z dnia 27 padziernika 2008r., moe ulec 
podwyszeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym 
BRE Banku SA bd w caoci opacone.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

ps2...@yahoo.com (Ed Gould) writes:
> Now this goes back aways and my memory is not 100 percent but...
>
> There are probably some of you here that remember when the White House
> (in the 70's-80's) lost a lot of email from around the time of
> Watergate.
>
> I had a friend who was an IBMer working at the White House in that
> time frame. He was involved in trying to get back all the lost
> emails. My memory is iffy here but when I was talking with my friend
> he was telling me how exhaustive IBM worked at getting back the
> emails. They had quite a few factory types working on getting them
> back. They were not particularly successful because of data getting
> written over and recovery was at best spotty.
>
> I am pretty sure they ran some type of PROFs (it was VM based that is
> all I remember) and he got somewhat familiar with reading track dumps
> and also whiz bang (he never gave me specifics) way of reading what
> was underneath what was current on the track.
>
> He is long time retired and is enjoying a well deserved retirement so
> I hope he doesn't get in any trouble for anything I am writing here.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#8 Happy DEC-10 Day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#44 sysout using machine control instead 
of ANSI control
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#87 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes 
Security Article)

folklore is that one would need one large pile of clearances to touch
such stuff (sufficient to cover anything that might be on the media).

tape management (including backup tapes) doesn't always get the
consideration it deserves ... recent posts about almaden datacenter
going thru a period where it appeared scratch tape requests involved
selecting tapes at random to mount:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#51 Source code for s/360

there have been past stories about some companies nearly being taken
down ... when it was discovered that backup process wasn't actually
writing anything on the tapes.

there are some federal standards for overwritting as countermeasure
to such recovery

some discussion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_remanence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_recovery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_erasure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Shredder

one of the Rainbow books:

A Guide to Understanding Data Remanence in Automated Information Systems
http://www.fas.org/irp/nsa/rainbow/tg025-2.htm

from above:

5.2.1 MAGNETIC TAPES

Although overwriting can be used for clearing this media, the method is
time consuming and generally never used. Also, inter-record gaps may
preclude proper clearing. A better method for clearing Type I, II, and
III tapes is degaussing with a Type I or Type II degausser. This
procedure is considered acceptable for clearing, but not purging, all
types of tapes.

Degaussing with an appropriate degausser is the only method the DoD
accepts for purging this media. Specifically, a Type I degausser can
purge only Type I tapes, and Type II degaussers can purge Types I and II
tapes. No degausser presently exists that is capable of purging Type III
tapes in accordance with NSA/CSS Specification L14-4-A.

... snip ...

-- 
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar1970

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Ron Hawkins]

Ed,

I think your friend watched too many James Bond movies, or was putting the
wrong sugar tabs in his coffee. While many have waxed lyrical about the
theory of doing this by reading the edges of a track, it has never been done
successfully (at least in the public domain). Either that, or he was
carrying a Scanning Tunneling Microscope around in his pocket. 

Ron


> also whiz
> bang (he never gave me specifics) way of reading what was underneath what
was
> current on the track.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Ed Gould]

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler 
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Fri, January 22, 2010 1:55:42 PM
Subject: Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)
Good stuff deleted

Now this goes back aways and my memory is not 100 percent but...

There are probably some of you here that remember when the White House  (in the 
70's-80's) lost a lot of email from around the time of Watergate.

I had a friend who was an IBMer working at the White House in that time frame. 
He was involved in trying to get back all the lost emails. My memory is iffy 
here but when I was talking with my friend he was telling me how exhaustive IBM 
worked at getting back the emails. They had quite a few factory types working 
on getting them back. They were not particularly successful because of data 
getting written over and recovery was at best spotty.

I am pretty sure they ran some type of PROFs (it was VM based that is all I 
remember)  and he got somewhat familiar with reading track dumps and also whiz 
bang (he never gave me specifics) way of reading what was underneath what was 
current on the track. 

He is long time retired and is enjoying a well deserved retirement so I hope he 
doesn't get in any trouble for anything I am writing here.

Ed



--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
  

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl (R.S.) writes:
> I would like to see the numbers above with avg MIPS for every kind of
> OS. I guess that MIPS number is much higher for TPF and z/OS and quite
> low for VSE. Last but not least: I do not expect to much (any?)
> customer with z/VM and no other OS. Including zLinux.

recent thread discussing rewrite of major TPF application that was
projected could grow to several hundred ES9000 ... but with the
rewrite being able to handle the growth on ten RS/6000 580s.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#80 Happy DEC-10 Day

earlier pieces of the thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#74 Happy DEC-10 Day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#78 Happy DEC-10 Day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#79 Happy DEC-10 Day

-- 
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar1970

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Anne & Lynn Wheeler]

t...@harminc.net (Tony Harminc) writes:
> Right. And when VM had 20,000 licences, most of them were running
> PROFS on CMS. (Remember the Reagan White House, and Ollie North...)

recent post also referring to above:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#8 Happy DEC-10 Day

from the 60s, CMS was mainframe "personal computing"  including some
number of commercial online timesharing service bureaus dating back to
60s with cp67/cms (much more than email). tymshare had done their online
computer conferencing on their vm-based commercial timesharing service
... and offerred it free to SHARE members (as VMSHARE) starting in
aug76, archive:
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/

one of the biggest such online operations was the world-wide internal
(vm-based) HONE system ... eventually all branch office people in the
world; not long after introduction of HONE ... it became requirement
that *ALL* mainframe orders be processed via HONE applications
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone

then mid-range price/performance dropped below some threshold and 43xx
saw gigantic explostion starting in the late 70s ... similar to what DEC
saw with vax/vms.

old post with decade of vax/vms numbers sliced and diced by year, model,
US & non-us:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#0 Computers in Science Fiction

a big differentiator between 43xx and vax/vms ... were some large
commercial customers with orders of multiple hundreds at a time (the
smaller order sizes were otherwise similar)

the change in the mid-80s was workstations and large PCs were starting
to take over that mid-range computer market (and PCs starting to subsume
CMS personal computing). the continued large volumes that endicott
expected to see for the 43xx follow-ons never materialized.

misc. old 43xx-related email from the period
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#43xx

at one point, somebody from pok gave a talk in san fran ... and made
some statement about 11,000 of the vax sales should have been 43xx
(would have been good size shift ... see numbers in above post) ...
because 43xx provided better price/performance.

however, it wasn't just dec/vax that 43xx was affecting. old email
with references to 4341, 158, & 3031 benchmarks:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#email720212b
in this post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#21 moving on

also, customers were finding that a vm/4341 cluster was cheaper than
3033, higher aggregate mip rate, much larger aggregate storage, and
higher aggregate i/o capacity. There is folklore, that because of the
above ... at one point, POK directed Fishkill to cut the Endicott
allocation in half for a critical component needed for 4341
manufacturing.

One of the things that was happening by the mid-70s ... as processing
power was increasing ... disk thruput improvements weren't keeping pace
with processor speed improvements. as a result, systems were having to
rely more & more on larger & larger electronic storage ... to compensate
for the growing disk i/o bottleneck. 370s were stuck with 24bit
addressing and 16mbyte virtual and real storage ... which resulted in
significant constrained operation for many 3033s.

3033 eventually came up with a hack for >16mbyte real storage, using
IDALs and slight-of-hand with two unused bits in the PTE ... although
there was still an issue with some things having to be "below the line".
One of the issues was that part of the solution involved virtual pages
that were above the line having to be moved below the line ...  and they
were going to rely on IDALs to write it out to disk and then read it
back in (below the line). Old email referring to hack I gave them to do
the move w/o having to do I/O:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#email800121
in this post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#15 more than 16mbyte support for 370

misc other "below the line" posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#2 Why is there only VM/370?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#82 "all-out" vs less aggressive designs 
(was: Re: 36 to 32 bit transition)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#4 Alpha performance, why?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#38 Infiniband - practicalities for small 
clusters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005.html#34 increasing addressable memory via 
paged memory?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#19 address space
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#30 HASP/ASP JES/JES2/JES3
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#44 POWER6 on zSeries?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#2 virtual memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#23 Multiple mappings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#34 Just another example of mainframe 
costs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#12 
Fantasy-Land_Hierarchal_NUMA_Memory-Model_on_Vertical
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#71 308x Processors - was "Mainframe 
articles"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#74 308x Processors - was "Mainframe 
articles"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#84 locate mode

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Ron Hawkins]

Radoslaw,

I'm aware of one customer 18 months ago running a z/9 708 dedicated to z/VM
and LINUX on z/Series, and they were planning to double that in the
following quarter.

Not exactly a fully popped box, but significantly larger than most z/VSE
sites I have dealt with.

Ron

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of
> R.S.
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:36 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)
> 
> P S pisze:
> [...]
> > Best guess I've heard recently is something like 4000 z/OS, 1500 z/VM,
> > 1500 z/VSE, under 100 z/TPF. But those are clearly darts; the rankings
> > are about right, but that's the only part I'd bank on. And barely
> > that...
> I would like to see the numbers above with avg MIPS for every kind of
> OS. I guess that MIPS number is much higher for TPF and z/OS and quite
> low for VSE. Last but not least: I do not expect to much (any?) customer
> with z/VM and no other OS. Including zLinux.
> 
> 
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
> 
> 
> --
> BRE Bank SA
> ul. Senatorska 18
> 00-950 Warszawa
> www.brebank.pl
> 
> Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy
> XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego,
> nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237
> NIP: 526-021-50-88
> Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2009 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w
caoci
> wpacony) wynosi 118.763.528 zotych. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego
> podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchway XXI WZ z dnia 16
marca
> 2008r., oraz uchway XVI NWZ z dnia 27 padziernika 2008r., moe ulec
> podwyszeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale
zakadowym
> BRE Banku SA bd w caoci opacone.
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
> Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Tony Harminc]

2010-01-22 R.S. :

>> Best guess I've heard recently is something like 4000 z/OS, 1500 z/VM,
>> 1500 z/VSE, under 100 z/TPF. But those are clearly darts; the rankings
>> are about right, but that's the only part I'd bank on. And barely
>> that...
>
> I would like to see the numbers above with avg MIPS for every kind of OS. I
> guess that MIPS number is much higher for TPF and z/OS and quite low for
> VSE. Last but not least: I do not expect to much (any?) customer with z/VM
> and no other OS. Including zLinux.

Right. And when VM had 20,000 licences, most of them were running
PROFS on CMS. (Remember the Reagan White House, and Ollie North...)

Tony H.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[R.S.]

P S pisze:
[...]

Best guess I've heard recently is something like 4000 z/OS, 1500 z/VM,
1500 z/VSE, under 100 z/TPF. But those are clearly darts; the rankings
are about right, but that's the only part I'd bank on. And barely
that...
I would like to see the numbers above with avg MIPS for every kind of 
OS. I guess that MIPS number is much higher for TPF and z/OS and quite 
low for VSE. Last but not least: I do not expect to much (any?) customer 
with z/VM and no other OS. Including zLinux.



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


--
BRE Bank SA
ul. Senatorska 18
00-950 Warszawa
www.brebank.pl

Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy 
XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, 
nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237

NIP: 526-021-50-88
Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2009 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci 
wpacony) wynosi 118.763.528 zotych. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego 
podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchway XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 
2008r., oraz uchway XVI NWZ z dnia 27 padziernika 2008r., moe ulec 
podwyszeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym 
BRE Banku SA bd w caoci opacone.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[P S]

Tony Harminc wrote:
> IBM had a poster they distributed in the 1990s saying "VM soars with
> 20,000 licences". So at least at one point they provided a bottom
> limit. One imagines the number is much lower today, and was never that
> high for MVS.

And they admitted at one point that the 20K included OTCs that had
never been heard from again. Sort of like McDonald's claiming to have
hundreds of billions of customers based on the number of burgers
they've sold -- not untrue, but not precisely true, either.

Best guess I've heard recently is something like 4000 z/OS, 1500 z/VM,
1500 z/VSE, under 100 z/TPF. But those are clearly darts; the rankings
are about right, but that's the only part I'd bank on. And barely
that...

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)

[Roach, Dennis (N-GHG)]

I could see the VM numbers going up due to Linux.

Since kVM is an integral part of RHEL 5.4, has anyone tried to get it working 
on a z box?
While it may not perform as well as zVM, the price could make it competitive. 


Dennis Roach
GHG Corporation
Lockheed Martin Mission Services
Facilities Design and Operations Contract Strategic Technical Engineering 
NASA/JSC
Address:
   2100 Space Park Drive 
   LM-15-4BH
   Houston, Texas 77058
Mail:
   P.O. Box 58487
   Mail Code H4C
   Houston, Texas 77258-8487
Phone:
   Voice:  (281)336-5027
   Cell:   (713)591-1059
   Fax:(281)336-5410
E-Mail:  dennis.ro...@lmco.com

All opinions expressed by me are mine and may not agree with my employer or any 
person, company, or thing, living or dead, on or near this or any other planet, 
moon, asteroid, or other spatial object, natural or manufactured, since the 
beginning of time.

> -Original Message-
> From: RACF Discussion List [mailto:rac...@listserv.uga.edu] On Behalf 
> Of Tony Harminc
> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 1:43 PM
> To: rac...@listserv.uga.edu
> Subject: Re: "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)
> 
> 2010/1/21 D E Engelbrecht :
> 
> >>Various analysts report more than 15,000 mainframe installations
> worldwide,
> >
> > Where is the source of that claim? IBM will NEVER divulge it. NEVER!
> 
> IBM had a poster they distributed in the 1990s saying "VM soars with 
> 20,000 licences". So at least at one point they provided a bottom 
> limit. One imagines the number is much lower today, and was never that 
> high for MVS.
> 
> Tony H.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html