Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-08-06 Thread Chase, John
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mark Zelden
 
 On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:03:49 -0500, Chase, John wrote:
 
  -Original Message-
  From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mark Zelden
 
  On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:33:34 -0400, Mark Jacobs
  wrote:
 
  SYS1.SCUNIMG is only needed if you expect DB2 to load its default 
  unicode image without having to build and load it at ipl time
 
  It's been a while, but I thought I couldn't even get a DISPLAY
UTF8 
  command to work in ISPF browse without SYS1.SCUNIMG in the LNKLST.

  But I could be wrong.  Maybe I'll test this if I'm bored later on.
 
 Forgot to mention it in my previous reply, but we don't have SCUNIMG 
 either in the linklist or the APF list, and don't have UNI= 
 in IEASYSxx at all.
 
 Okay.  I'll believe you and not test.   :-)90% of my 
 LPARs already had it in
 the LNKLST, even though we were using a unicode image in 
 parmlib prior to z/OS 1.8.  The first sandbox LPAR I tested 
 on didn't, and I know I ran into some issues there and added 
 it.  It may have also been that DB2 issue with starting DB2 
 subsystems at the same time.

Might it also be possible that having a UNI= in parmlib drove the
requirement to have SCUNIMG in the linklist?

Anyway, based on the z/OS Unicode Services manual (for 1.7; haven't seen
one with that title in the 1.8 bookshelves) I added SCUNIMG to the
linklist and APF list in the LPAR where DB2 v8.1 is first going to be
installed (still no UNI= in parmlib yet).  It also appears that, for our
installation anyway, we might be able to pare down the pre-built DB2
image significantly.

-jc-

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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-08-06 Thread Brian Peterson
Hi, Ken

I tried your suggestion.

IEASYS00 specifies a new UNI=00 value (previously, I was depending on DB2 
V8 to load its pre-built image at startup, so there was no UNI= in IEASYS00).

CUNUNU00 specifies:
 BROWSESYS1.PARMLIB(CUNUNI00) - 01.00  
 Command ===  
* Top of Data *
ADD,FROM=37,TO=1208,TECH=R 
 Bottom of Data

After IPL and startup of several DB2 V8 subsystems on our tech LPAR:

CUN3000I 08.34.44 UNI DISPLAY 605   
 ENVIRONMENT: CREATED   08/05/2007 AT 17.27.02  
  MODIFIED  08/06/2007 AT 08.13.20  
  IMAGE CREATED --/--/ AT --.--.--  
 SERVICE: CHARACTER  CASE   NORMALIZATION  COLLATION
  STRINGPREP BIDI   
 STORAGE: ACTIVE108 PAGES   
  LIMIT  524287 PAGES   
CASECONV: NONE  
   NORMALIZE: DISABLED  
NORM VER: NONE  
 COLLATE: DISABLED  
  COLL RULES: NONE  
 STRPROFILES: NONE  
  CONVERSION: 01200(13488)-00037-E01208-00037-E 
  01208-00819-E   00037-00367-E 
  00037-01208-R   00367-00037-E 
  00037-01200(13488)-R  

Wow.

What a brilliant suggestion.  I've been following Unicode on Demand for a long 
time, and this idea never occurred to me.

Wow.  Very cool!

Brian

On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 09:42:03 -0500, Kenneth E Tomiak wrote:

It seemed to me that UNICODE on DEMAND and having DB2 load a monster
table for me is not really on DEMAND, that is letting something else way more
than I need. I have

ADD,FROM=37,TO=1208,TECH=R

in a PARMLIB(CUNUNIxx) member. After running for a week I issue

d uni,all

and there are very few entries listed. This stops DB2 from loading a monster
table with entries I never use. There must be something bad about doing it
this simply. A delay for the first use of a new entry when I have at most 12
entries loaded at the end of a week is not that painful. Starting three DB2
subsystems at the same time does not cause a problem. If you want to
mitigate load time, start with one, see what you really use, then add them to
your CUNUNIxx member or issue SETUNI commands to load them.

 -Original Message-

 SYS1.SCUNIMG is only needed if you expect DB2 to load its default
 unicode image without having to build and load it at ipl time



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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-08-06 Thread Mark Zelden
On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 06:55:07 -0500, Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Might it also be possible that having a UNI= in parmlib drove the
requirement to have SCUNIMG in the linklist?


No.  If you have UNI=, then you are taking the image from a parmlib
member.  SCUNIMG came in later via APAR.  None of our systems
had it for a long time.  When we migrated to z/OS 1.6 it was added
to most systems by the person who did the migration (even though
we still didn't require it for anything).


Anyway, based on the z/OS Unicode Services manual (for 1.7; haven't seen
one with that title in the 1.8 bookshelves) I added SCUNIMG to the
linklist and APF list in the LPAR where DB2 v8.1 is first going to be
installed (still no UNI= in parmlib yet).

I think that is a good idea.

It also appears that, for our
installation anyway, we might be able to pare down the pre-built DB2
image significantly.


Unless real storage is a big problem in your shop, I see no reason to do
so.   See my last post...

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Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead
Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
z/OS and OS390 expert at http://searchDataCenter.com/ateExperts/
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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-08-04 Thread Kenneth E Tomiak
It seemed to me that UNICODE on DEMAND and having DB2 load a monster 
table for me is not really on DEMAND, that is letting something else way more 
than I need. I have 

ADD,FROM=37,TO=1208,TECH=R

in a PARMLIB(CUNUNIxx) member. After running for a week I issue

d uni,all

and there are very few entries listed. This stops DB2 from loading a monster 
table with entries I never use. There must be something bad about doing it 
this simply. A delay for the first use of a new entry when I have at most 12 
entries loaded at the end of a week is not that painful. Starting three DB2 
subsystems at the same time does not cause a problem. If you want to 
mitigate load time, start with one, see what you really use, then add them to 
your CUNUNIxx member or issue SETUNI commands to load them.

 -Original Message-

 SYS1.SCUNIMG is only needed if you expect DB2 to load its default
 unicode image without having to build and load it at ipl time


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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-08-03 Thread Chase, John
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mark Jacobs
 
 SYS1.SCUNIMG is only needed [in the linklist] if you expect DB2 to
load its 
 default unicode image without having to build and load it at ipl time

Thanks.  Another question I'll have to try to remember to ask at SHARE
is whether that will hold true at z/OS 1.9.

-jc-

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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-08-03 Thread Mark Jacobs

Chase, John wrote:

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mark Jacobs

SYS1.SCUNIMG is only needed [in the linklist] if you expect DB2 to

load its 
  

default unicode image without having to build and load it at ipl time



Thanks.  Another question I'll have to try to remember to ask at SHARE
is whether that will hold true at z/OS 1.9.

-jc-

  

My guess would be yes. If it works don't mess with it.

--
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Technical Services
Time Customer Service - Tampa, FL
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If you can fake that, you've got it made.


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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-08-03 Thread Fletcher, Kevin
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mark Jacobs
 
 SYS1.SCUNIMG is only needed [in the linklist] if you expect DB2 to
load its 
 default unicode image without having to build and load it at ipl time

There is also an APAR (OA19072) if you try to start (usually at IPL
time)
multiple DB2 address spaces you will receive msg DSNT552I and abend 
with S04E. Make sure you have the latest and greatest PTF's for
unicode.

Fletch

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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-08-03 Thread Mark Zelden
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 15:02:12 -0500, Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Better late than never?

 From:Michael Babcock
 Date:Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:06:12 -0500

 If I remember correctly, you must have SYS1.SCUNIMG in the linklist
for
 the dynamic to work.

We don't, and it works (z/OS 1.7).

We'll learn more tomorrow, when we try the CICS sample web services
application (CICS TS 3.2).


How do you know it is working?  Perhaps you really aren't using unicode on
demand.  Do you still have UNI= in IEASYSxx?  What does D UNI,ALL 
show you?

Mark
--
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Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead
Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
z/OS and OS390 expert at http://searchDataCenter.com/ateExperts/
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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-08-03 Thread Mark Zelden
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:33:34 -0400, Mark Jacobs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

SYS1.SCUNIMG is only needed if you expect DB2 to load its default
unicode image without having to build and load it at ipl time


It's been a while, but I thought I couldn't even get a DISPLAY UTF8 command
to work in ISPF browse without SYS1.SCUNIMG in the LNKLST.  But I could
be wrong.  Maybe I'll test this if I'm bored later on.

Mark
--
Mark Zelden
Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead
Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
z/OS and OS390 expert at http://searchDataCenter.com/ateExperts/
Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html

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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-08-03 Thread Chase, John
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mark Zelden
 
 On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 15:02:12 -0500, Chase, John 
 wrote:
 
 Better late than never?
 
  From:  Michael Babcock
  Date:  Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:06:12 -0500
 
  If I remember correctly, you must have SYS1.SCUNIMG in the linklist
 for
  the dynamic to work.
 
 We don't, and it works (z/OS 1.7).
 
 We'll learn more tomorrow, when we try the CICS sample web services 
 application (CICS TS 3.2).
 
 
 How do you know it is working?  Perhaps you really aren't 
 using unicode on demand.  Do you still have UNI= in IEASYSxx? 
  What does D UNI,ALL show you?

On an image where I browsed a dataset in ISPF, and issued DISPLAY UTF8
during the browse:

CUN3000I 15.54.21 UNI DISPLAY 606
 ENVIRONMENT: CREATED   07/29/2007 AT 11.09.43   
  MODIFIED  08/02/2007 AT 13.23.28   
  IMAGE CREATED 07/29/2007 AT 11.09.43   
 SERVICE: CHARACTER  CASE   NORMALIZATION  COLLATION 
 STORAGE: ACTIVE 36 PAGES
  LIMIT  524287 PAGES
CASECONV: NONE   
   NORMALIZE: DISABLED   
 COLLATE: DISABLED   
  CONVERSION: 01208-00037-E  

This is what we see on an image where we did not issue DISPLAY UTF8 or
any other request for CCSID conversion:

CUN3000I 15.56.44 UNI DISPLAY 183
 ENVIRONMENT: CREATED   07/30/2007 AT 13.15.30   
  MODIFIED  07/30/2007 AT 13.15.30   
  IMAGE CREATED 07/30/2007 AT 13.15.30   
 SERVICE: CHARACTER  CASE   NORMALIZATION  COLLATION 
 STORAGE: ACTIVE  2 PAGES
  LIMIT  524287 PAGES
CASECONV: NONE   
   NORMALIZE: DISABLED   
 COLLATE: DISABLED   
  CONVERSION: NO CONVERSIONS FOUND   

Both images are z/OS 1.7, same maintenance level.

-jc-

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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-08-03 Thread Chase, John
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mark Zelden
 
 On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:33:34 -0400, Mark Jacobs 
 wrote:
 
 SYS1.SCUNIMG is only needed if you expect DB2 to load its default 
 unicode image without having to build and load it at ipl time
 
 It's been a while, but I thought I couldn't even get a 
 DISPLAY UTF8 command to work in ISPF browse without 
 SYS1.SCUNIMG in the LNKLST.  But I could be wrong.  Maybe 
 I'll test this if I'm bored later on.

Forgot to mention it in my previous reply, but we don't have SCUNIMG
either in the linklist or the APF list, and don't have UNI= in IEASYSxx
at all.

-jc-

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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-08-03 Thread Mark Zelden
On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:03:49 -0500, Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mark Zelden

 On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:33:34 -0400, Mark Jacobs
 wrote:

 SYS1.SCUNIMG is only needed if you expect DB2 to load its default
 unicode image without having to build and load it at ipl time

 It's been a while, but I thought I couldn't even get a
 DISPLAY UTF8 command to work in ISPF browse without
 SYS1.SCUNIMG in the LNKLST.  But I could be wrong.  Maybe
 I'll test this if I'm bored later on.

Forgot to mention it in my previous reply, but we don't have SCUNIMG
either in the linklist or the APF list, and don't have UNI= in IEASYSxx
at all.


Okay.  I'll believe you and not test.   :-)90% of my LPARs already had
it in 
the LNKLST, even though we were using a unicode image in parmlib prior to 
z/OS 1.8.  The first sandbox LPAR I tested on didn't, and I know I ran into
some issues there and added it.  It may have also been that DB2 issue
with starting DB2 subsystems at the same time.

Mark
--
Mark Zelden
Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead
Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
z/OS and OS390 expert at http://searchDataCenter.com/ateExperts/
Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html

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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-08-02 Thread Chase, John
Better late than never?

 From: Michael Babcock 
 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:06:12 -0500 
 
 If I remember correctly, you must have SYS1.SCUNIMG in the linklist
for 
 the dynamic to work.  

We don't, and it works (z/OS 1.7).

We'll learn more tomorrow, when we try the CICS sample web services
application (CICS TS 3.2).

-jc-

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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-08-02 Thread Mark Jacobs
SYS1.SCUNIMG is only needed if you expect DB2 to load its default
unicode image without having to build and load it at ipl time

Mark Jacobs

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chase, John
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 4:02 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

Better late than never?

 From: Michael Babcock 
 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:06:12 -0500 
 
 If I remember correctly, you must have SYS1.SCUNIMG in the linklist
for 
 the dynamic to work.  

We don't, and it works (z/OS 1.7).

We'll learn more tomorrow, when we try the CICS sample web services
application (CICS TS 3.2).

-jc-

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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-04-02 Thread Van Dalsen, Herbie
Mark Zelden wrote:
Force a load by browsing a FILE in ISPF that is ASCII (well, it doesn't
even have to be ASCII) and from the browse command line type:

DISPLAY UTF8

Then do a D UNI,ALL command again from the console.,


Mark,

I tried to display the ASCII file that I FTP'd in binary but it only
displays junk.   + (|+|+?  _ 
 _/
   /  ?   %%/?   ?/   /_/ %  %   ?
_/ %  /% ??   ? ?   ?   ? _/ %   /  %/
_/ %/%%/  ? /  |   /  ? ?  ?  ?  _ ?
   `?  _/`  /   ? %??, /   ? ? _? ?%` /   %  
  ?   %   ?   %  /%   _/ %  ? ?   _

Also my DISPLAY UNI,ALL looks like this... 

CUN3000I 14.27.50 UNI DISPLAY 397
 ENVIRONMENT: CREATED   03/17/2007 AT 11.34.38
  MODIFIED  03/17/2007 AT 11.34.38
  IMAGE CREATED 03/17/2007 AT 11.34.38
 SERVICE: CHARACTER  CASE   NORMALIZATION  COLLATION
 STORAGE: ACTIVE1 PAGES
  LIMIT 25600 PAGES
CASECONV: NONE
   NORMALIZE: DISABLED
 COLLATE: DISABLED
  CONVERSION: NO CONVERSIONS FOUND

I must add... z/OS 1.6 with a static environment. We only have it
because we were supposed to go DB2, but then it was discovered that DB2
is less expensive in the US where it is already paid for, so we are in
the process of packing our bags... Would just like to test this as there
aren't that much packing going on and it is still 12 months...

Regards

Herbie  

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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-04-02 Thread Mark Zelden
On Mon, 2 Apr 2007 14:36:45 +0100, Van Dalsen, Herbie
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Mark Zelden wrote:
Force a load by browsing a FILE in ISPF that is ASCII (well, it doesn't
even have to be ASCII) and from the browse command line type:

DISPLAY UTF8

Then do a D UNI,ALL command again from the console.,


Mark,

I tried to display the ASCII file that I FTP'd in binary but it only
displays junk.   + (|+|+?  _ 
 _/
   /  ?   %%/?   ?/   /_/ %  %   ?
_/ %  /% ??   ? ?   ?   ? _/ %   /  %/
_/ %/%%/  ? /  |   /  ? ?  ?  ?  _ ?
   `?  _/`  /   ? %??, /   ? ? _? ?%` /   %  
  ?   %   ?   %  /%   _/ %  ? ?   _

Also my DISPLAY UNI,ALL looks like this...

CUN3000I 14.27.50 UNI DISPLAY 397
 ENVIRONMENT: CREATED   03/17/2007 AT 11.34.38
  MODIFIED  03/17/2007 AT 11.34.38
  IMAGE CREATED 03/17/2007 AT 11.34.38
 SERVICE: CHARACTER  CASE   NORMALIZATION  COLLATION
 STORAGE: ACTIVE1 PAGES
  LIMIT 25600 PAGES
CASECONV: NONE
   NORMALIZE: DISABLED
 COLLATE: DISABLED
  CONVERSION: NO CONVERSIONS FOUND

I must add... z/OS 1.6 with a static environment. We only have it
because we were supposed to go DB2, but then it was discovered that DB2
is less expensive in the US where it is already paid for, so we are in
the process of packing our bags... Would just like to test this as there
aren't that much packing going on and it is still 12 months...

Regards

Herbie


The dynamic loading of unicode tables is at z/OS 1.7 and above. Some of
it in 1.7 is only via PTF (TCB mode caller support).   If you are running z/OS
1.6 you need to define static tables, so that would explain why the
ISPF DISPLAY UTF8 command didn't do anything for you.

Mark
--
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Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead
Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group:  G-ITO
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
z/OS and OS390 expert at http://searchDataCenter.com/ateExperts/
Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/
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Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-03-21 Thread Lizette Koehler
In z/OS V1.7 I have found the following information

 

Unicode dynamic table loading: Unicode support will be enhanced to
dynamically load conversion tables on demand. This can help eliminate the
setup tasks previously required for Unicode, including the CUNUNIxx parmlib
member IMAGE statement updates. A new operator command will be provided that
can allow tables to be added, removed, and replaced.

 

How exactly will I know this is working.  Does IBM now ship all the possible
variations of UNICODE and therefore has a table to load from when needed?
Does this truly remove my need to gen the CUNUNIxx member?  I am more than
willing to drop that process from my system creation process.  I find so
little information on this and how it affects my mainframe applications
(DB2, MQ, IMS, etc.)

 

Lizette

 

 


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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-03-21 Thread Ramiro Camposagrado
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:50:32 -0400, Lizette Koehler 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

In z/OS V1.7 I have found the following information



Unicode dynamic table loading: Unicode support will be enhanced to
dynamically load conversion tables on demand. This can help eliminate the
setup tasks previously required for Unicode, including the CUNUNIxx parmlib
member IMAGE statement updates. A new operator command will be provided 
that
can allow tables to be added, removed, and replaced.



How exactly will I know this is working.  Does IBM now ship all the possible
variations of UNICODE and therefore has a table to load from when needed?
Does this truly remove my need to gen the CUNUNIxx member?  I am more 
than
willing to drop that process from my system creation process.  I find so
little information on this and how it affects my mainframe applications
(DB2, MQ, IMS, etc.)



Lizette






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SYS1.SAMPLIB contains the individual conversion tables that are included in 
the prebuilt image: CUNSISM1 through CUNSISM6
The CUNSISM6 conversion table is the prebuilt image for DB2.
Also be sure to look at the following APARS:  OA14231, OA19072, OA16420

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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-03-21 Thread Brian Peterson
Unicode on Demand works very well in z/OS 1.7, with OA16037, OA18799 and 
OA19072.  I talked a bit about this at the Bit Bucket at SHARE in Tampa:

http://www.share.org/client_files/docupload/Bit%20Bucket%2033%20(21).pdf

Please see my section of this presentation, titled Unicode for the Smart and 
Lazy, where I talk about our experience with Unicode on z/OS 1.7 running DB2 
version 8 and no pre-built Unicode conversion image.

Brian

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:50:32 -0400, Lizette Koehler wrote:

In z/OS V1.7 I have found the following information

Unicode dynamic table loading: Unicode support will be enhanced to
dynamically load conversion tables on demand. This can help eliminate the
setup tasks previously required for Unicode, including the CUNUNIxx parmlib
member IMAGE statement updates. A new operator command will be provided 
that
can allow tables to be added, removed, and replaced.

How exactly will I know this is working.  Does IBM now ship all the possible
variations of UNICODE and therefore has a table to load from when needed?
Does this truly remove my need to gen the CUNUNIxx member?  I am more 
than
willing to drop that process from my system creation process.  I find so
little information on this and how it affects my mainframe applications
(DB2, MQ, IMS, etc.)


Lizette

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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-03-21 Thread Mark Zelden
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:50:32 -0400, Lizette Koehler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



How exactly will I know this is working.  

I had the same concern initially. To test it in my sandbox I did this:

D UNI,ALL   (operator cmd - note output)

Force a load by browsing a FILE in ISPF that is ASCII (well, it doesn't
even have to be ASCII) and from the browse command line type:

DISPLAY UTF8

Then do a D UNI,ALL command again from the console.

Mark
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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-03-21 Thread Michael Babcock
If I remember correctly, you must have SYS1.SCUNIMG in the linklist for 
the dynamic to work.


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Re: Unicode Code Dynamic Table Loading

2007-03-21 Thread Lizette Koehler
Thanks Mark - Perfect as always.

Lizette


  Snip    
D UNI,ALL   (operator cmd - note output)

Force a load by browsing a FILE in ISPF that is ASCII (well, it doesn't
even have to be ASCII) and from the browse command line type:

DISPLAY UTF8

Then do a D UNI,ALL command again from the console.


-  UnSnip  

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