Re: Where is the EPA offset of a program in the Binder API data?

2018-12-01 Thread Greg Price

On 2018-12-02 2:49 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

The original program had been assembled with END EP-name. That name was not 
defined with external reference otherwise. With no source to reassemble, we 
could not get it to link with just the load module alone.


Hmm, may have been fixable by a delinker which could reconstruct the 
object deck, and then you could have edited the END card, perhaps?

If you had a delinker handy, of course...

Cheers,
Greg P.

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Re: Where is the EPA offset of a program in the Binder API data?

2018-12-01 Thread Jesse 1 Robinson
Kinda long post. You might just wanna move along.

A load module PDS(E) directory contains various info for the modules it 
describes. One datum is the EPA for each member. Alias members have their own 
directory entries, which may have the same EPA as the main member or a 
different EPA. An EPA must be identifiable and locatable at binder time. It may 
or may not correspond to an alias name, but either way it's recorded in the 
directory and governs how the module will begin execution. 

War story. We once tried to provide emergency recovery for a sister shop whose 
upgrade had tanked horribly. They brought copies of their critical programs on 
tape. Forget why, but one of them needed to be relinked for our environment. No 
bueno. The original program had been assembled with END EP-name. That name was 
not defined with external reference otherwise. With no source to reassemble, we 
could not get it to link with just the load module alone. Problem may have been 
fixed in the intervening decades, but it was a show stopper at the time.  

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Marchant
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 2:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Where is the EPA offset of a program in the Binder API 
data?

On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 17:01:34 +, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:

>The PDS/E directory entry for a program contains, among other information, the 
>EPA offset within the program.
>
>The EPA offset is also contained in the SMDE/PMAR information returned by 
>DESERV.
>
>After much RTFM however, I cannot seem to find anywhere in the Binder API data 
>areas an indication of which section/label is the entry point for the program.
>
>In particular, I would have expected that an LD entry in the ESD table would 
>contain such an indicator, but I do not see one anywhere.
>
>Am I just not seeing the information in the API structures or is it just not 
>there?

I don't know the answer to your question.

Consider that a CSECT can contain many ENTRY statements.

A load module can contain many CSECTs, coming from many compile units.

The ENTRY specified when binding the load module can be a CSECT or an ENTRY 
specified at assembly time.

A load module can have many aliases, each referencing a different entry point.

A load module can be bound again and saved with a new name with a different 
entry point.


Given the above, I would be surprised if the entry point can be obtained from 
any other place than the directory entry.

--
Tom Marchant


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Re: "first previous"?

2018-12-01 Thread retired mainframer
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2018 12:13 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: "first previous"?
> 
> From Program Management UG and Ref:
> 
> A SYMPATH specification applies to all SYMLINK specifications that 
> precede it,
> back to the first previous SYMPATH.
> 
> The word "previous" seems superfluous here.  I wonder whether it means
> "very first SYMPATH" or "nearest previous SYMPATH?

I always took it to mean the latter.

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Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?

2018-12-01 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 19:12:06 -0500, Don Leahy wrote:

>So what?  You can also download it using IND$FILE.  That was the last time
>I used IND$FILE.
>
>On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 6:52 PM Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>
>> Linux?
>> MacOS?
>> Solaris?
>> ... ?

-- gil

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Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?

2018-12-01 Thread Don Leahy
So what?  You can also download it using IND$FILE.  That was the last time
I used IND$FILE.

I prefer WSA because it is very easy to automate using Rexx.

On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 6:52 PM Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 18:08:26 -0500, Don Leahy wrote:
>
> >Why all the love for IND$FILE?  ISPF's workstation agent (WSA) is a far
> >superior solution to the problem of sending files between your work
> station
> >and the mainframe.  Easy to automate (see the ISPF FILEXFER service) and
> is
> >included with ISPF at no additional cost.
> >
> Linux?
> MacOS?
> Solaris?
> ... ?
>
> 1. FTP (requires workstation FTP server).
> o Download using FTP. ISPF invokes the host FTP client to connect with the
> FTP server
>   on your workstation and transfer the WSA installation program.
>   ...
> Well, gee. If I already have FTP to my workstation, why do I need to
> install
> something else to transfer files?
>
> -- gil
>
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Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?

2018-12-01 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 18:08:26 -0500, Don Leahy wrote:

>Why all the love for IND$FILE?  ISPF's workstation agent (WSA) is a far
>superior solution to the problem of sending files between your work station
>and the mainframe.  Easy to automate (see the ISPF FILEXFER service) and is
>included with ISPF at no additional cost.
> 
Linux?
MacOS?
Solaris?
... ?

1. FTP (requires workstation FTP server).
o Download using FTP. ISPF invokes the host FTP client to connect with the FTP 
server
  on your workstation and transfer the WSA installation program.
  ...
Well, gee. If I already have FTP to my workstation, why do I need to install
something else to transfer files?

-- gil

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Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?

2018-12-01 Thread Don Leahy
Why all the love for IND$FILE?  ISPF's workstation agent (WSA) is a far
superior solution to the problem of sending files between your work station
and the mainframe.  Easy to automate (see the ISPF FILEXFER service) and is
included with ISPF at no additional cost.

On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 3:37 PM Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 20:46:19 +, Robert Prins wrote:
>
> >On 2018-11-30 12:33, John Eells wrote:
> >>
> >> IND$FILE, as part of z/OS, remains supported.  As far as I know,
> support for it
> >> has never lapsed (certainly not since its inclusion into OS/390).
> >
> >If it's supported, then would you be willing to make a small change to
> it, to
> >use SDB, rather than whatever hardcoded blocksize it's using now. FWIW, I
> zapped
> >it, and I believe there there is a list of locations to zap for various
> (older)
> >versions around.
> >
> One for each version, or several for each?  If the latter, I hope it's
> an EQU where a one-line change suffices.
>
> Sounds like an RFE.
>
> Or has IBM a blanket policy of replacing hardcoded blocksize with SDB?
>
> IIRC, IBM changed IEBGENER to rely on SDB, then needed to backtrack
> because customers depended on the prior behavior.
>
> And IBM's changing Rexx EXECIO to rely on SDB broke some of my EXECs
> because SDB chose an invalid blocksize in some cases where the Rexx
> runtime had chosen a valid one.  SR suggested an existing PTF, intended
> for JES, that solved my problem.  But then cautioned, "That PTF causes
> Rexx to behave contrary to specification, and the adverse behavior might
> return if a customer reported a problem.  You should always specify
> BLKSIZE."
>
> -- gil
>
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Re: LXRES best practices copy of the link

2018-12-01 Thread Joseph Reichman
https://share.confex.com/share/124/webprogram/Handout/Session17096/SHARE_Seattle_2015_Storage.pdf



> On Dec 1, 2018, at 1:13 PM, scott Ford  wrote:
> 
> How can I get a copy of your presentation Peter? It would be appreciated by
> this ‘mere’ padawn..
> 
> Regards,
> Scott
> 
> On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 9:12 AM Peter Relson  wrote:
> 
>>> the regular LX is easier as I only need I register to PC
>> 
>> That strikes me as the wrong attitude. This is authorized code. You should
>> also be considering what is best for the system (and the rest of the users
>> within the system), not only what is easiest.
>> 
>>> If my started task goes down and I restart it the virtual address in
>> private of the PC routine would be different isn’t that an issue
>> 
>> It's not an issue, it's a fact. When you restart, you are still connecting
>> an entry table to an LX, whether it is an LX that is newly reserved or is
>> an LX that is being re-connected-to. You still need to build the entry
>> table, so should be doing so as part of the restart process, using the
>> addresses you find within your restarted space.
>> 
>> Peter Relson
>> z/OS Core Technology Design
>> 
>> 
>> --
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> -- 
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Re: LXRES best practices

2018-12-01 Thread Joseph Reichman
So

On restart I need to do everything but LXRES the linkage number is still valid 
meaning I need to do the following three ETDEF,ETCRE and ETCON and the ETCON 
uses the saved linkage number 

correct ?



On Dec 1, 2018, at 9:10 AM, Peter Relson  wrote:

>> the regular LX is easier as I only need I register to PC
> 
> That strikes me as the wrong attitude. This is authorized code. You should 
> also be considering what is best for the system (and the rest of the users 
> within the system), not only what is easiest.
> 
>> If my started task goes down and I restart it the virtual address in 
> private of the PC routine would be different isn’t that an issue
> 
> It's not an issue, it's a fact. When you restart, you are still connecting 
> an entry table to an LX, whether it is an LX that is newly reserved or is 
> an LX that is being re-connected-to. You still need to build the entry 
> table, so should be doing so as part of the restart process, using the 
> addresses you find within your restarted space.
> 
> Peter Relson
> z/OS Core Technology Design
> 
> 
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Re: "first previous"?

2018-12-01 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 16:00:43 -0500, zMan wrote:

>I am thinking that a non-native speaker writing this was perhaps.
>
 (Yodaspeak?)
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markedness#Marked_and_unmarked_word_pairs
???  "first" is unmarked; "last" marked?

>On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 3:13 PM Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>
>> From Program Management UG and Ref:
>>
>> A SYMPATH specification applies to all SYMLINK specifications that 
>> precede it,
>> back to the first previous SYMPATH.
>>
>> The word "previous" seems superfluous here.  I wonder whether it means
>> "very first SYMPATH" or "nearest previous SYMPATH?"

-- gil

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Re: "first previous"?

2018-12-01 Thread zMan
I am thinking that a non-native speaker writing this was perhaps.

On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 3:13 PM Paul Gilmartin <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> From Program Management UG and Ref:
>
> A SYMPATH specification applies to all SYMLINK specifications that
> precede it,
> back to the first previous SYMPATH.
>
> The word "previous" seems superfluous here.  I wonder whether it means
> "very first SYMPATH" or "nearest previous SYMPATH?
>
> -- gil
>
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Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?

2018-12-01 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 20:46:19 +, Robert Prins wrote:

>On 2018-11-30 12:33, John Eells wrote:
>>
>> IND$FILE, as part of z/OS, remains supported.  As far as I know, support for 
>> it
>> has never lapsed (certainly not since its inclusion into OS/390).
>
>If it's supported, then would you be willing to make a small change to it, to
>use SDB, rather than whatever hardcoded blocksize it's using now. FWIW, I 
>zapped
>it, and I believe there there is a list of locations to zap for various (older)
>versions around.
>
One for each version, or several for each?  If the latter, I hope it's
an EQU where a one-line change suffices.

Sounds like an RFE.

Or has IBM a blanket policy of replacing hardcoded blocksize with SDB?

IIRC, IBM changed IEBGENER to rely on SDB, then needed to backtrack
because customers depended on the prior behavior.

And IBM's changing Rexx EXECIO to rely on SDB broke some of my EXECs
because SDB chose an invalid blocksize in some cases where the Rexx
runtime had chosen a valid one.  SR suggested an existing PTF, intended
for JES, that solved my problem.  But then cautioned, "That PTF causes
Rexx to behave contrary to specification, and the adverse behavior might
return if a customer reported a problem.  You should always specify
BLKSIZE."  

-- gil

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"first previous"?

2018-12-01 Thread Paul Gilmartin
From Program Management UG and Ref:

A SYMPATH specification applies to all SYMLINK specifications that precede 
it,
back to the first previous SYMPATH.

The word "previous" seems superfluous here.  I wonder whether it means
"very first SYMPATH" or "nearest previous SYMPATH?

-- gil

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open spot

2018-12-01 Thread Jackson, Rob
Sorry for the solicitation, but we have a spot open for a senior MVS sysprog 
here in beautiful East Tennessee (Knoxville/Foothills area), if anyone knows 
someone.  Just drop me a note for more information.

Thanks.
rob
First Tennessee Bank
Mainframe Technical Support
FIRST TENNESSEE

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Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?

2018-12-01 Thread Robert Prins

On 2018-11-30 12:33, John Eells wrote:

Seymour J Metz wrote:
I believe that IND$FILE is included in your z/OS license. I also believe that 
it is long out of support and less efficient than, e.g., SFTP (yes, FTP is 
considered insecure these days.)





IND$FILE, as part of z/OS, remains supported.  As far as I know, support for it 
has never lapsed (certainly not since its inclusion into OS/390).


If it's supported, then would you be willing to make a small change to it, to 
use SDB, rather than whatever hardcoded blocksize it's using now. FWIW, I zapped 
it, and I believe there there is a list of locations to zap for various (older) 
versions around.


Robert
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robert(a)prino(d)org

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Re: IND$FILE -- where did the name come from?

2018-12-01 Thread Michael Stein
On 2018-11-29 18:39, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> OCO was a gradual infestation. DF/DS, DF/EF (15 % discount on plasma),
> MVS/SE, MVS/SP and, as I recall, DFP, preceded it, and the was still
> microfiche for, e.g., TSO/E, long after OCO had started.

OCO was a lot more gradual than the speed IBM drove.  I wonder if IBM
realized that.

Once upon a time we had 7171's for dial up 3270 sessions.  And TSO users
would get stuck.  Their session would be left so they couldn't log back
on and they couldn't reconnect.

The operators couldn't cancel the left over session, though the system
did say "cancel command accepted".

A dump of the hung TSO session showed the initiator task RB waiting on
the cancel ECB for the TSO session.  This RB wasn't running (even if the
cancel ECB was posted) because it wasn't the topmost RB on the initiator
tasks TCB RB chain.

The topmost RB was an IRB from VTAM waiting for some VTAM event so I
opened a problem with IBM VTAM.

VTAM looked at several dumps of this case but VTAM wanted traces of a
failing case -- Yes, trace all 7171's on a production system for something
which happened possibly several times a week.  And the problem wasn't
know about until until someone tried to logon which could be any amount
of time after the problem hit.

No.

They also couldn't understand why the user wasn't cancelable.

Locally we eventually figured out that varying the LU for the TSO session
inactive (possibly requiring force) would cause the waiting VTAM request
complete follwed by the initator canceling the user (if a cancel command
had been issued). This wasn't really a good solution as it took operator
intervention and/or system programming staff intervention and also our
local policy was to avoid "force" unless it was to avoid an IPL.

The only useful information from VTAM was that the hang was a result of
an incomplete reconnect where the old TSO address space had committed
to connect to a specific inbound session which had likely dropped.

After months of nothing useful from VTAM, I looked deeper.  I didn't need
to "fix", just stop the user from being locked out.

The VTAM module was OCO.  Well, not so great.

However, downstairs we had old microfiche.  How old?  Tww versions back.

Ah, a bit of looking at the fiche and disassembly of the current module
and things become clear.  I can see that this isn't the first time VTAM
has had a hang in this module.  There are multiple VTAM calls with later
added STIMER timeouts around them.  But no timeout on the one I'm stuck on
(of course).

A quick zap to the module to add a STIMER around the VTAM call with the
STIMER exit just issuing ABEND "fixed" the problem.  The non-reconnected
address space terminates and the user can re-logon without any operator
intervention.

Just a disasm wouldn't have helped as much as having the old fiche which
told what the module was doing.  So OCO had an effect more on new sites,
and on IBM as they got less help from the field.

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Re: LXRES best practices

2018-12-01 Thread scott Ford
How can I get a copy of your presentation Peter? It would be appreciated by
this ‘mere’ padawn..

Regards,
Scott

On Sat, Dec 1, 2018 at 9:12 AM Peter Relson  wrote:

> >the regular LX is easier as I only need I register to PC
>
> That strikes me as the wrong attitude. This is authorized code. You should
> also be considering what is best for the system (and the rest of the users
> within the system), not only what is easiest.
>
> >If my started task goes down and I restart it the virtual address in
> private of the PC routine would be different isn’t that an issue
>
> It's not an issue, it's a fact. When you restart, you are still connecting
> an entry table to an LX, whether it is an LX that is newly reserved or is
> an LX that is being re-connected-to. You still need to build the entry
> table, so should be doing so as part of the restart process, using the
> addresses you find within your restarted space.
>
> Peter Relson
> z/OS Core Technology Design
>
>
> --
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Re: ESTAE retry vs percolate SDWACLUP bit

2018-12-01 Thread Binyamin Dissen
In application code - probably no problem as whatever resources used will be
tracked by the system and freed.

In system code mucho problems possible, since one would not free resources if
one expects to retry - and these resources may not be associated by the system
with the failed unit of work.

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 10:47:00 -0600 Paul Schuster 
wrote:

:>Hello:
:>
:>The manual “MVS Programming: Assembler Services
:>Guide” Chapter 8. “Providing recovery” explains that an ESTAE that is called 
with the ‘SDWACLUP’ bit on can only ‘percolate’ (SETRP RC=0). It further 
explains that if you do attempt a ‘retry’ (SETRP RC=4) , the retry will be 
ignored.
:>
:>I was testing with an ESTAE that gets control with the SDWACLUP’ bit on, and 
the routine does attempt a retry (SETRP RC=4) but it indeed was ignored, with 
no other apparent adverse impact.
:>
:>So my question is this: aside from ‘completeness/code purity’, is there 
anything to worry about if an ESTAE attempts a ‘retry’ even though the 
‘SDWACLUP’ bit is on? I can envision that the recovery routine itself may have 
different logic based on whether the ‘SDWACLUP’ bit is on or off.
:>
:>I did change my specific ESTAE to exit SETRP RC=0 when the ‘SDWACLUP’ bit is 
on.
:>
:>Thank you for any insight you can provide.
:>
:>Paul
:>
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Re: LXRES best practices

2018-12-01 Thread Peter Relson
>the regular LX is easier as I only need I register to PC

That strikes me as the wrong attitude. This is authorized code. You should 
also be considering what is best for the system (and the rest of the users 
within the system), not only what is easiest.

>If my started task goes down and I restart it the virtual address in 
private of the PC routine would be different isn’t that an issue

It's not an issue, it's a fact. When you restart, you are still connecting 
an entry table to an LX, whether it is an LX that is newly reserved or is 
an LX that is being re-connected-to. You still need to build the entry 
table, so should be doing so as part of the restart process, using the 
addresses you find within your restarted space.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


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Re: ESTAE retry vs percolate SDWACLUP bit

2018-12-01 Thread Peter Relson
As long as your code does whatever it needs to do, based on understanding 
that retry will or will not happen, it is fine always to tell RTM to 
retry.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design0


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Re: Where is the EPA offset of a program in the Binder API data?

2018-12-01 Thread Greg Price

On 2018-12-01 4:01 AM, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:

But the question still remains -- Where (if anywhere) is an EPA indicator in 
the returned Binder API data?


I guess I should have spoken more plainly.

I'd say it's not there because it is not needed.

If you are including the module for subsequent saving, you can preserve 
the entry point by using ATTRIB=YES on the INCLUDE. And you can specify 
entry points when you add new aliases. But you can't AFAIK extract what 
the current entry point is set to.


It is not needed because it does not affect the internal structure of 
the module.


You do know the entry point will be in the first class - the one at 
offset zero when the module is loaded - so it is reasonably easy to 
determine the entry point symbol (or at least a symbol at the same 
offset), but I agree it is not quite as simple as being told "the 
answer" directly.


Cheers,
Greg P.

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Re: Where is the EPA offset of a program in the Binder API data?

2018-12-01 Thread Farley, Peter x23353
Thank you Peter!  I missed that even though I called myself doing a very 
careful RTFM.

Makes sense now that I think about it.  DESERV returns the PMAR data following 
the SMDE entry and likely gets the same data from the same place (though I 
realize it is not necessarily getting the data via the GUPI interface).

Thanks again for the on-target answer.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Peter Morrison
Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2018 2:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Where is the EPA offset of a program in the Binder API data?

Peter,

You can read the PMAR using the binder API.  I had a similar problem trying to 
find out where information that is in the PDS(E) directory is for a
program object in a unix file.   It turns out that the information is
embedded in the program object, but, of course, the internal format for a 
program object has not been decoded (yet?)

If you look at the binder API description, you will see that you can rear the 
information by using the GETD Call, using a class name of B_PMAR - the returned 
data must be described by a buffer that uses the TYPE=PMAR option.
Note that the actual PMAR data in the buffer must be mapped using the IEWPMAR 
macro.  Be aware of the program object level - according to the documentation 
the PMAR is a different length for some. 

Peter Morrison
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