Re: Beyond the EC12
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Linda FWIW, I have always heard that is lucky to own black cats. They are expected to cross one'e enemies paths before they might otherwise come to your door. ;) Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. :-) -jc- ** Information contained in this e-mail message and in any attachments thereto is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems, notify the sender immediately, and refrain from using or disclosing all or any part of its content to any other person. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
Hi John, Yes! So true. :)) Linda Sent from my iPhone On May 1, 2014, at 5:04 AM, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Linda FWIW, I have always heard that is lucky to own black cats. They are expected to cross one'e enemies paths before they might otherwise come to your door. ;) Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. :-) -jc- ** Information contained in this e-mail message and in any attachments thereto is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems, notify the sender immediately, and refrain from using or disclosing all or any part of its content to any other person. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
Ron Hawkins wrote: Reminds me of a Hong Kong building I was living in. The floors went 11, 12, 12a, 14, 15... Weird. If you truly believe in God, you really don't need all those superstitions. Perhaps, it is only me, but for me, avoidance or relying in specific numbers are IMHO just a waste of time. Which was strange seeing 14 is unlucky for the Cantonese Why? What is the matter with 14? Is this a grown-up version of 13? ;-) Ok, I will not contribute anymore to this thread ... Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
On 4/30/2014 12:50 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote: Ron Hawkins wrote: Reminds me of a Hong Kong building I was living in. The floors went 11, 12, 12a, 14, 15... Weird. If you truly believe in God, you really don't need all those superstitions. If you think God is also a superstition, you don't need it / him / her. Perhaps, it is only me, but for me, avoidance or relying in specific numbers are IMHO just a waste of time. For me relying on God is just a waste of time. To each his own. Oh, wait, this is a techncial forum. And not even Friday. Which was strange seeing 14 is unlucky for the Cantonese Why? What is the matter with 14? Is this a grown-up version of 13? ;-) The Japanese don't like '4' because the reading 'shi' is also 'death'; Maybe it's a similar effect. Ok, I will not contribute anymore to this thread ... Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
The members of the Einsatzgruppen at Babi Yar wore belt buckles inscribed with the legend 'Gott mit uns' in high relief. God can be and often is invoked by villains; the devil can quote scripture; etc., etc. Let's leave God out of our discussions here. His|Her invocation is ineffective: it never persuades an opponent; and it is radically divisive. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
In Cantonese 14 sounds similar to the word for death, or dead. Don't give a Cantonese a clock or watch as a gift for similar reasons. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Elardus Engelbrecht Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 11:51 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Beyond the EC12 Ron Hawkins wrote: Reminds me of a Hong Kong building I was living in. The floors went 11, 12, 12a, 14, 15... Weird. If you truly believe in God, you really don't need all those superstitions. Perhaps, it is only me, but for me, avoidance or relying in specific numbers are IMHO just a waste of time. Which was strange seeing 14 is unlucky for the Cantonese Why? What is the matter with 14? Is this a grown-up version of 13? ;-) Ok, I will not contribute anymore to this thread ... Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
FWIW, I have always heard that is lucky to own black cats. They are expected to cross one'e enemies paths before they might otherwise come to your door. ;) Linda Sent from my iPhone On Apr 30, 2014, at 7:25 AM, DASDBILL2 dasdbi...@comcast.net wrote: Don't know about Cantonese, but the Japanese word for four is pronounced shi, and the Japanese word for death is also pronounced shi. They are radically (pun intended) different when written, but when spoken they are homonyms. Any number that has a four in it is thus unlucky. Here's more on Mandarin Chinese number beliefs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_in_Chinese_culture In Russia, you dare not give a dozen roses to your girl friend. You must give some odd number of flowers (11 or 13 would be good). An even number of flowers are associated with death and funerals. And so on wherever humans live. Western cultures typically view 666 as extremely suspect, along with 13. Also the poker hand of two pairs, consisting of two aces and two eights, are known as Dead man's hand because Wild Bill Hickok was killed while playing poker and holding those cards. There is no thing anywhere that cannot be considered unlucky by someone or lucky by someone else. Having your hair cut or your fingernails trimmed on a Sunday is bad juju in certain area. Blacks cats, broken mirrors, stepping on a crack in a concrete sidewalk, ..., the list is endless. Bill Fairchild - Original Message - From: Elardus Engelbrecht elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 1:50:39 AM Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 Ron Hawkins wrote: Reminds me of a Hong Kong building I was living in. The floors went 11, 12, 12a, 14, 15... Weird. If you truly believe in God, you really don't need all those superstitions. Perhaps, it is only me, but for me, avoidance or relying in specific numbers are IMHO just a waste of time. Which was strange seeing 14 is unlucky for the Cantonese Why? What is the matter with 14? Is this a grown-up version of 13? ;-) Ok, I will not contribute anymore to this thread ... Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
Because 1.14 would not sit well with the Cantonese... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Nims,Alva John (Al) Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 10:40 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Beyond the EC12 If the superstition about 13 was considered, why did they come out with z/OS 1.13? :) Al Nims Systems Admin/Programmer 3 Information Technology University of Florida (352) 273-1298 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Jaffe Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 11:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 On 4/25/2014 8:09 AM, Klein, Kenneth E wrote: Has anyone heard any good rumors about what will be coming out next year as the latest and greatest model? z296? Ec14? You bring up an interest point to contemplate as IBM eventually considers official names for its 13th-generation machine (if and when such a thing is produced). Is there still enough superstition about the number '13' that they will avoid using it and come up with something completely different? Or will they stick with EC13/BC13? For the record, I consider it unlikely that they will leap ahead to '14' and be out-of-sync forever more. I also believe the chances close to 'nil' that they will reduce from 120 cores on EC12 back down to 96 for the next generation, making any name ending in '96' not worthy of consideration. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
Reminds me of a Hong Kong building I was living in. The floors went 11, 12, 12a, 14, 15... Which was strange seeing 14 is unlucky for the Cantonese (that's twice I've used this - boring...) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Barry Merrill Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 7:16 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Beyond the EC12 Since it's the weekend: in Ireland, license plates are assigned to a car and never change when ownership changes, and the license numbers have always been YY-COUNTY-NUMBER, where YY is the year of the car's manufacture. Our 2008 Ford plate is 08-CE-4088 for County Clare. In anticipation of Irish superstitions, the year was changed for the 2013 year models; cars sold in the first half of 2013 had 131-CO-number and 132-CO- number for the last half, so no one would have a plate with a 13. Barry Merrill -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Nims,Alva John (Al) Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 12:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 If the superstition about 13 was considered, why did they come out with z/OS 1.13? :) Al Nims Systems Admin/Programmer 3 Information Technology University of Florida (352) 273-1298 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Jaffe Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 11:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 On 4/25/2014 8:09 AM, Klein, Kenneth E wrote: Has anyone heard any good rumors about what will be coming out next year as the latest and greatest model? z296? Ec14? You bring up an interest point to contemplate as IBM eventually considers official names for its 13th-generation machine (if and when such a thing is produced). Is there still enough superstition about the number '13' that they will avoid using it and come up with something completely different? Or will they stick with EC13/BC13? For the record, I consider it unlikely that they will leap ahead to '14' and be out-of-sync forever more. I also believe the chances close to 'nil' that they will reduce from 120 cores on EC12 back down to 96 for the next generation, making any name ending in '96' not worthy of consideration. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
John Kelly, Senior VP and Director, IBM Research, previewed IBM's technology plans for the mainframe in his presentation at the Mainframe 50 celebration in New York on April 8, 2014. You can watch an online video replay of that event here: http://www.ibm.com/mainframe50 For what it's worth, tetraphobia is common in Asia, though that hasn't always been a naming obstacle (z114, 4341, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, HP LaserJet 4/4L/4P, etc.) The current version of IMS is 13, and it's wonderful. Also for what it's worth, I made some predictions on April 1, 2014: http://www.millennialmainframer.com/2014/04/new-mainframe-day-april-1/ Timothy Sipples IT Architect Executive, zEnterprise Industry Solutions, AP/GCG/MEA E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#49 Beyond the EC12 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#50 Beyond the EC12 for additional 4341 drift ... old post in (linkedin) IBM Historic Computing http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#46 From The Annals of Release No Software Before Its Time also has an old, different email from 26Aug1982 on 4341 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#email820826 with more details about clusters of 4341s beating 3033. other old 4300 related email http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#43xx and some I/O topic drift (3033/3081 compared to 4341) ... i've periodically referenced FICON and how FICON is a enormously heavy-weight protocol layered on fibre-channel standard that drastically reduces native FCS throughput ... z196 peak i/o benchmark getting 2M IOPS with 104 FICON (layered on top of FCS) about same time as claim of single FCS for e5-2600 getting over million IOPS (two such FCS tops 104 FICON). posts mentioning FICON http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#ficon in 1980 I had gotten roped into doing channel-extender for STL that was moving 300 people from IMS group to offsite bldg with service back to STL datacenter. The support downloaded channel programs to the remote end and ran the extender asynchronous full-duplex ... with only simulation of half-duplex synchronous at the end-points ... reducing the enormous amount of channel protocol chatter latency and significantly increasing throughput ... then in 1988 I was asked to help LLNL standardize some serial stuff they had ... which quickly becomes fibre-channel standard. posts mentioning channel-extender http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#channel.extender -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
W dniu 2014-04-26 03:43, zMan pisze: I've heard rumors that the names are often not determined until shortly before release anyway, after some not-so-fun marketing meetings... Does it really matter? Would IBM sell any more piece of EC12 if they had chosen more sexy name? Was z196 a flop because of poor name? IMHO this is one of the products where the name and sexy look are completely irrelevant. Like a drilling rig or reinforcement steel rods. My €0.02 -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2014 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.696.052 złote. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
Without meaning to be defensive z196 a flop? I've encountered tons of them. Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Date: 26/04/2014 14:51 Subject:Re: Beyond the EC12 Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu W dniu 2014-04-26 03:43, zMan pisze: I've heard rumors that the names are often not determined until shortly before release anyway, after some not-so-fun marketing meetings... Does it really matter? Would IBM sell any more piece of EC12 if they had chosen more sexy name? Was z196 a flop because of poor name? IMHO this is one of the products where the name and sexy look are completely irrelevant. Like a drilling rig or reinforcement steel rods. My €0.02 -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2014 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.696.052 złote. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
Since it's the weekend: in Ireland, license plates are assigned to a car and never change when ownership changes, and the license numbers have always been YY-COUNTY-NUMBER, where YY is the year of the car's manufacture. Our 2008 Ford plate is 08-CE-4088 for County Clare. In anticipation of Irish superstitions, the year was changed for the 2013 year models; cars sold in the first half of 2013 had 131-CO-number and 132-CO-number for the last half, so no one would have a plate with a 13. Barry Merrill -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Nims,Alva John (Al) Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 12:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 If the superstition about 13 was considered, why did they come out with z/OS 1.13? :) Al Nims Systems Admin/Programmer 3 Information Technology University of Florida (352) 273-1298 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Jaffe Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 11:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 On 4/25/2014 8:09 AM, Klein, Kenneth E wrote: Has anyone heard any good rumors about what will be coming out next year as the latest and greatest model? z296? Ec14? You bring up an interest point to contemplate as IBM eventually considers official names for its 13th-generation machine (if and when such a thing is produced). Is there still enough superstition about the number '13' that they will avoid using it and come up with something completely different? Or will they stick with EC13/BC13? For the record, I consider it unlikely that they will leap ahead to '14' and be out-of-sync forever more. I also believe the chances close to 'nil' that they will reduce from 120 cores on EC12 back down to 96 for the next generation, making any name ending in '96' not worthy of consideration. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
That's interesting .Why did they do the 131/132 thing, though? If they didn't run out in other years, why did they suddenly feel the need to double the address space? Or were they already on the verge of running out, in which case the alleged reason might be an urban legend? On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Barry Merrill ba...@mxg.com wrote: Since it's the weekend: in Ireland, license plates are assigned to a car and never change when ownership changes, and the license numbers have always been YY-COUNTY-NUMBER, where YY is the year of the car's manufacture. Our 2008 Ford plate is 08-CE-4088 for County Clare. In anticipation of Irish superstitions, the year was changed for the 2013 year models; cars sold in the first half of 2013 had 131-CO-number and 132-CO-number for the last half, so no one would have a plate with a 13. Barry Merrill -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Nims,Alva John (Al) Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 12:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 If the superstition about 13 was considered, why did they come out with z/OS 1.13? :) Al Nims Systems Admin/Programmer 3 Information Technology University of Florida (352) 273-1298 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Jaffe Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 11:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 On 4/25/2014 8:09 AM, Klein, Kenneth E wrote: Has anyone heard any good rumors about what will be coming out next year as the latest and greatest model? z296? Ec14? You bring up an interest point to contemplate as IBM eventually considers official names for its 13th-generation machine (if and when such a thing is produced). Is there still enough superstition about the number '13' that they will avoid using it and come up with something completely different? Or will they stick with EC13/BC13? For the record, I consider it unlikely that they will leap ahead to '14' and be out-of-sync forever more. I also believe the chances close to 'nil' that they will reduce from 120 cores on EC12 back down to 96 for the next generation, making any name ending in '96' not worthy of consideration. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
zMan's question is a good one, but the reversion to just 14 for the year 2014 does add credence to the notion that superstition was the rationale for the one-off 2013 scheme. The distinction that needs to be remembered is that in Eire, Italy and a number of other European countries these plates record vehicle-registration information. They are not circulation licenses issued to 'persons'. (There are, of course, both public, usually automobile association, and law-enforcement databases that can be queried to obtain current-ownership information from a VR number.) John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
No urban legend - the plan was publicized well in advance of 2013 that there would be no year 13 plates issued, period. There was no shortage of numbers in years before or after 13. Car dealers did complain that their sales were way down in June, as buyers then wanted the 132 as a sign of a newer car than the 131's of the first half. Barry -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of zMan Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 9:53 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 That's interesting .Why did they do the 131/132 thing, though? If they didn't run out in other years, why did they suddenly feel the need to double the address space? Or were they already on the verge of running out, in which case the alleged reason might be an urban legend? On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Barry Merrill ba...@mxg.com wrote: Since it's the weekend: in Ireland, license plates are assigned to a car and never change when ownership changes, and the license numbers have always been YY-COUNTY-NUMBER, where YY is the year of the car's manufacture. Our 2008 Ford plate is 08-CE-4088 for County Clare. In anticipation of Irish superstitions, the year was changed for the 2013 year models; cars sold in the first half of 2013 had 131-CO-number and 132-CO-number for the last half, so no one would have a plate with a 13. Barry Merrill -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Nims,Alva John (Al) Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 12:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 If the superstition about 13 was considered, why did they come out with z/OS 1.13? :) Al Nims Systems Admin/Programmer 3 Information Technology University of Florida (352) 273-1298 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Jaffe Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 11:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 On 4/25/2014 8:09 AM, Klein, Kenneth E wrote: Has anyone heard any good rumors about what will be coming out next year as the latest and greatest model? z296? Ec14? You bring up an interest point to contemplate as IBM eventually considers official names for its 13th-generation machine (if and when such a thing is produced). Is there still enough superstition about the number '13' that they will avoid using it and come up with something completely different? Or will they stick with EC13/BC13? For the record, I consider it unlikely that they will leap ahead to '14' and be out-of-sync forever more. I also believe the chances close to 'nil' that they will reduce from 120 cores on EC12 back down to 96 for the next generation, making any name ending in '96' not worthy of consideration. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
aledlhug...@aol.com (Aled Hughes) writes: Back in the early '80s, I was told that IBM's Model Range for the 3083 - E, B and J - used the initial letter of the Product Managers' last names for the models. Anyone know if this was true? some 3083 topic drift this account has 3081 ( 3033) using warmed over FS technology ... both started off QD efforts to get stuff back in the 370 product pipelines (after demise of FS ... FS was completely different than 370 and was going to completely replace it ... 370 efforts were being killed off during the FS period ... and the lack of 370 products during the period is credited with clone processors getting market foothold). http://www.jfsowa.com/computer/memo125.hm posts mentioning FS http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys The initial 3081D was supposedly two 5mip processors but some benchmarks had it slower than 3033 (at around 4-4.5mips). Doubling cache for 3081K then supposedly was two 7mip processors ... and some benchmarks had it about same as 3033. 3081 was initially going to be multiprocessor only ... but TPF (renamed airline congrol program) didn't have multiprocessor support and there was concern that the whole TPF customer base would migrate to clone vendors (which continued to ship newer, faster uniprocessors). Initial response was some very unnatural things done to vm370 for customized TPF running in virtual machine on 3081 (but significantly impacting vm370 throughput for all other customers). They eventually decide to come out with single processor 3083 ... part of the problem was simply removing the 2nd 3081 processor ... was it was in the middle of the box ... which would have made the box dangerously top heavy ... so they had to remove the top processor and rewire the box for the only processor in the middle of the box. Also the latency and throughput of the I/O microcode in the 3081 was really poor ... and TPF environments tended to be very I/O intensive ... as a result there were also customized I/O microcode loads for 3083 TPF environments (that attempted to compensate/mask its otherwise poor performance characteristics). The other issue is long time POK 370s had 10-15% hardware multiprocessor penalty ... processor clock was slowed down 10-15% (compared to single processor machine) to allow for cross-cache synchronization in two-processor system. In theory initial 3083 processor should have gotten a 10-15% processor boost (over 3081), but it continued to run the processor clock at 3081 speed. Lots of difficulty going to 3084 because each processor cache had to deal with three other caches instead of only one other cache. For 3084, MVS VM370 got a lot of storage allocation work, kernel storage was change to multiple of cache-line size and aligned on cache boundaries (so didn't have two different pieces of storage occupying same cache line) ... which is claimed to increased overall performance by 5-6% (for 4-way operation). some past 3083 posts http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#38 MVCIN instruction http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009l.html#65 ACP, One of the Oldest Open Source Apps http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010n.html#16 Sabre Talk Information? -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
Werent they developed at La Gaude ? I was there in the 90s Regards, Scott From: Anne Lynn Wheeler Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2014 2:34 PM To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List aledlhug...@aol.com (Aled Hughes) writes: Back in the early '80s, I was told that IBM's Model Range for the 3083 - E, B and J - used the initial letter of the Product Managers' last names for the models. Anyone know if this was true? some 3083 topic drift this account has 3081 ( 3033) using warmed over FS technology ... both started off QD efforts to get stuff back in the 370 product pipelines (after demise of FS ... FS was completely different than 370 and was going to completely replace it ... 370 efforts were being killed off during the FS period ... and the lack of 370 products during the period is credited with clone processors getting market foothold). http://www.jfsowa.com/computer/memo125.hm posts mentioning FS http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys The initial 3081D was supposedly two 5mip processors but some benchmarks had it slower than 3033 (at around 4-4.5mips). Doubling cache for 3081K then supposedly was two 7mip processors ... and some benchmarks had it about same as 3033. 3081 was initially going to be multiprocessor only ... but TPF (renamed airline congrol program) didn't have multiprocessor support and there was concern that the whole TPF customer base would migrate to clone vendors (which continued to ship newer, faster uniprocessors). Initial response was some very unnatural things done to vm370 for customized TPF running in virtual machine on 3081 (but significantly impacting vm370 throughput for all other customers). They eventually decide to come out with single processor 3083 ... part of the problem was simply removing the 2nd 3081 processor ... was it was in the middle of the box ... which would have made the box dangerously top heavy ... so they had to remove the top processor and rewire the box for the only processor in the middle of the box. Also the latency and throughput of the I/O microcode in the 3081 was really poor ... and TPF environments tended to be very I/O intensive ... as a result there were also customized I/O microcode loads for 3083 TPF environments (that attempted to compensate/mask its otherwise poor performance characteristics). The other issue is long time POK 370s had 10-15% hardware multiprocessor penalty ... processor clock was slowed down 10-15% (compared to single processor machine) to allow for cross-cache synchronization in two-processor system. In theory initial 3083 processor should have gotten a 10-15% processor boost (over 3081), but it continued to run the processor clock at 3081 speed. Lots of difficulty going to 3084 because each processor cache had to deal with three other caches instead of only one other cache. For 3084, MVS VM370 got a lot of storage allocation work, kernel storage was change to multiple of cache-line size and aligned on cache boundaries (so didn't have two different pieces of storage occupying same cache line) ... which is claimed to increased overall performance by 5-6% (for 4-way operation). some past 3083 posts http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#38 MVCIN instruction http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009l.html#65 ACP, One of the Oldest Open Source Apps http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010n.html#16 Sabre Talk Information? -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
scott_j_f...@yahoo.com (Scott Ford) writes: Werent they developed at La Gaude ? I was there in the 90s re: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.htm#49 Beyond the EC12 4341 was being done in Endicott, maybe thinking about (slower) 4331 that was being done in Europe (Boeblingen) on 4361 (4331 followon) http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP4331.html Date: 08/26/82 12:00:34 From: wheeler to be fair, Endicott has a faster 4341mp that they won't get to announce. POK has strapped back a 3081 to create a slowdown'ed 3083 and I expect that Endicott is now under POK's thumb, they will not be allowed to do anything more in that area ... 4341 frame was engineered to hold two CPUs and 16meg of 32k OEM chips (in case IBM tried to screw them on deliveries of IBM 64k chips). The E7 would only be a little slower than the 3083. Also it is not clear from some of the high I/O benchmark reports whether or not the 3081 technology with high I/O rates high task switch rates (lots of cycle stealing lower cache hit ratios) is faster than a 3033. ... snip ... other past 4300 email http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#43xx 3033 was by POK 168 group ... mapping 168 logic to 20% faster chips from FS, at the same time 3081 was being done by different group As soon as 3033 is out the door, that group starts on 3090 (in parallel with the 308x efforts). I've mentioned before cluster of (original) 4341 had more aggregate processing power than 3033, more aggregate memory than 3033, more aggregate I/O than 3033, lower cost than 3033, and much lower space environmental footprint than 3033. At one point, head of POK getting allocation of critical 4341 manufacturing component cut in half (as way of dealing with 4341 competition). With minor tweak, 4341 channels handle datastreaming 3mbytes/sec. By the time, 3083 is coming out the door, Endicott has faster 4341. 3083 http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP3083.html 3081 http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP3081.html 3081 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_3081 recent slightly related 370xa/3081 folklore ... or how I got to spend 3hrs being interviewed by FBI agent (recent linkedin discussion about two bldgs crammed full of old 360370 systems have been found) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#27 Complete 360 and 370 systems found 308x channels are slow and have lots of issues: Date: 09/17/82 10:40:29 From: wheeler Talking to a GPD engineer he says that IBM has not technical talent to come out with another control unit. As an example, he said that when he joined the group out here, there were at least 10-12 people in his area alone that understood the channel interface ... he thinks that there might be one such person now in the whole GPD division ... the rest have left the company. I've heard what sounds like contigency projects on the east coast with channel development that completely bypass control units and connects directly to drives. I was in meetings all day yesterday, but one time I stopped by my office two people down the hall were talking about head crash on 3380 and now might be a good time to sell all your IBM stock. SJRLVM1 took head crash on customer ship level of 3380s yesterday and they replaced the HDAs last night in the box. ... Performance numbers for the 3084 seem to have some liberties. 4-way should have three times the performance interferance that a 2-way (cache invalidation signals from 3 other processors instead of one). They cheat with the 3083 versis 3081. for example, on a 158ap, running a UP generated system ... the processor runs 10% slower if the switch on the machine is in AP-mode rather than UP-mode (additional delay in each machine cycle just to listen for cache invalidation signals from the other processor ... this is w/o the other processor even executing anything generating storage alterations cache invalidation signals). For 3083 the machine cycle invalidation listening delay was left in the machine. I've heard that the 3084 numbers are somewhat selected benchmarks that do minimal storage alterations ... extensive storage alteration programs can have disastrous effects on 3084 performance. ... I've been told that almost every control unit that has attached to a 308x has had to undergo hardware ECs ... apparently it was easier for every control unit hardware group in the company (even on machines no longer with development group people available) to resolve the problems than for the 308x channels. Also did you see the message that ACP runs 20% slower on a 3081d than on a 3033. On a 3081k, ACP runs 5% faster than a 3033. POK is started a special 3081k CPU program where the 3081s coming down the line will be tested to see if they can run with their clock cranked down. If they pass, they will be special high performance 3081Ks which run slightly faster than normal 3081ks. ... snip ... Note that there was some early 3380 quality problems with sticktion
Beyond the EC12
Has anyone heard any good rumors about what will be coming out next year as the latest and greatest model? z296? Ec14? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
On 4/25/2014 8:09 AM, Klein, Kenneth E wrote: Has anyone heard any good rumors about what will be coming out next year as the latest and greatest model? z296? Ec14? You bring up an interest point to contemplate as IBM eventually considers official names for its 13th-generation machine (if and when such a thing is produced). Is there still enough superstition about the number '13' that they will avoid using it and come up with something completely different? Or will they stick with EC13/BC13? For the record, I consider it unlikely that they will leap ahead to '14' and be out-of-sync forever more. I also believe the chances close to 'nil' that they will reduce from 120 cores on EC12 back down to 96 for the next generation, making any name ending in '96' not worthy of consideration. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
The z196/z114 names were just plain confusing, so yeah, I'd assume they wouldn't do that. If they were going to have an aberration, they should have done that for 13. Let's see, z10EC/BC, zEC12/zBC12...maybe z1EC3/z1BC3 to hide the 13?! On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Ed Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.comwrote: On 4/25/2014 8:09 AM, Klein, Kenneth E wrote: Has anyone heard any good rumors about what will be coming out next year as the latest and greatest model? z296? Ec14? You bring up an interest point to contemplate as IBM eventually considers official names for its 13th-generation machine (if and when such a thing is produced). Is there still enough superstition about the number '13' that they will avoid using it and come up with something completely different? Or will they stick with EC13/BC13? For the record, I consider it unlikely that they will leap ahead to '14' and be out-of-sync forever more. I also believe the chances close to 'nil' that they will reduce from 120 cores on EC12 back down to 96 for the next generation, making any name ending in '96' not worthy of consideration. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
Or you can consider the EC10/EC12 as ECyy so at this point the next EC would be EC14 if it were to come out this year. Just my $0.01 to add to the discussion -- Lionel B. Dyck BMC Software Product Development Lead, Common Install and Services 10431 Morado Circle, Building 5, Austin, Texas 78759 Office Phone: 512-340-6031 (extension x26031) E-Mail: lionel_d...@bmc.com Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are. - John Wooden -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of zMan Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 11:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 The z196/z114 names were just plain confusing, so yeah, I'd assume they wouldn't do that. If they were going to have an aberration, they should have done that for 13. Let's see, z10EC/BC, zEC12/zBC12...maybe z1EC3/z1BC3 to hide the 13?! On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Ed Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.comwrote: On 4/25/2014 8:09 AM, Klein, Kenneth E wrote: Has anyone heard any good rumors about what will be coming out next year as the latest and greatest model? z296? Ec14? You bring up an interest point to contemplate as IBM eventually considers official names for its 13th-generation machine (if and when such a thing is produced). Is there still enough superstition about the number '13' that they will avoid using it and come up with something completely different? Or will they stick with EC13/BC13? For the record, I consider it unlikely that they will leap ahead to '14' and be out-of-sync forever more. I also believe the chances close to 'nil' that they will reduce from 120 cores on EC12 back down to 96 for the next generation, making any name ending in '96' not worthy of consideration. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
I don't remember where I heard this, or even I really did hear this, but immediately, Next jumped to the front of my brain. zNext - NextZ. It could be real, it could just a hallucination. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Dyck, Lionel lionel_d...@bmc.com wrote: Or you can consider the EC10/EC12 as ECyy so at this point the next EC would be EC14 if it were to come out this year. Just my $0.01 to add to the discussion -- Lionel B. Dyck BMC Software Product Development Lead, Common Install and Services 10431 Morado Circle, Building 5, Austin, Texas 78759 Office Phone: 512-340-6031 (extension x26031) E-Mail: lionel_d...@bmc.com Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are. - John Wooden -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of zMan Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 11:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 The z196/z114 names were just plain confusing, so yeah, I'd assume they wouldn't do that. If they were going to have an aberration, they should have done that for 13. Let's see, z10EC/BC, zEC12/zBC12...maybe z1EC3/z1BC3 to hide the 13?! On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Ed Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: On 4/25/2014 8:09 AM, Klein, Kenneth E wrote: Has anyone heard any good rumors about what will be coming out next year as the latest and greatest model? z296? Ec14? You bring up an interest point to contemplate as IBM eventually considers official names for its 13th-generation machine (if and when such a thing is produced). Is there still enough superstition about the number '13' that they will avoid using it and come up with something completely different? Or will they stick with EC13/BC13? For the record, I consider it unlikely that they will leap ahead to '14' and be out-of-sync forever more. I also believe the chances close to 'nil' that they will reduce from 120 cores on EC12 back down to 96 for the next generation, making any name ending in '96' not worthy of consideration. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent Mainline’s positions or opinions Mark D Pace Senior Systems Engineer Mainline Information Systems -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
Maybe they'll resurrect Future System. :-) -jc- -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of zMan Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 11:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 The z196/z114 names were just plain confusing, so yeah, I'd assume they wouldn't do that. If they were going to have an aberration, they should have done that for 13. Let's see, z10EC/BC, zEC12/zBC12...maybe z1EC3/z1BC3 to hide the 13?! On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Ed Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.comwrote: On 4/25/2014 8:09 AM, Klein, Kenneth E wrote: Has anyone heard any good rumors about what will be coming out next year as the latest and greatest model? z296? Ec14? You bring up an interest point to contemplate as IBM eventually considers official names for its 13th-generation machine (if and when such a thing is produced). Is there still enough superstition about the number '13' that they will avoid using it and come up with something completely different? Or will they stick with EC13/BC13? For the record, I consider it unlikely that they will leap ahead to '14' and be out-of-sync forever more. I also believe the chances close to 'nil' that they will reduce from 120 cores on EC12 back down to 96 for the next generation, making any name ending in '96' not worthy of consideration. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ** Information contained in this e-mail message and in any attachments thereto is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems, notify the sender immediately, and refrain from using or disclosing all or any part of its content to any other person. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
If the superstition about 13 was considered, why did they come out with z/OS 1.13? :) Al Nims Systems Admin/Programmer 3 Information Technology University of Florida (352) 273-1298 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ed Jaffe Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 11:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 On 4/25/2014 8:09 AM, Klein, Kenneth E wrote: Has anyone heard any good rumors about what will be coming out next year as the latest and greatest model? z296? Ec14? You bring up an interest point to contemplate as IBM eventually considers official names for its 13th-generation machine (if and when such a thing is produced). Is there still enough superstition about the number '13' that they will avoid using it and come up with something completely different? Or will they stick with EC13/BC13? For the record, I consider it unlikely that they will leap ahead to '14' and be out-of-sync forever more. I also believe the chances close to 'nil' that they will reduce from 120 cores on EC12 back down to 96 for the next generation, making any name ending in '96' not worthy of consideration. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
It's always referred to as zNext until the formal announcement and final name is released. CIT | Ken Porowski | VP Mainframe Engineering | Information Technology | +1 973 740 5459 (tel) | ken.porow...@cit.com This email message and any accompanying materials may contain proprietary, privileged and confidential information of CIT Group Inc. or its subsidiaries or affiliates (collectively, “CIT”), and are intended solely for the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication, any use, disclosure, printing, copying or distribution, or reliance on the contents, of this communication is strictly prohibited. CIT disclaims any liability for the review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or the taking of any action in reliance upon, this communication by persons other than the intended recipient(s). If you have received this communication in error, please reply to the sender advising of the error in transmission, and immediately delete and destroy the communication and any accompanying materials. To the extent permitted by applicable law, CIT and others may inspect, review, monitor, analyze, copy, record and retain any communications sent from or received at this email address. -Original Message- Mark Pace Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 1:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Beyond the EC12 I don't remember where I heard this, or even I really did hear this, but immediately, Next jumped to the front of my brain. zNext - NextZ. It could be real, it could just a hallucination. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
Around here, people are betting on EC14 or EC15. We don't understand where the name z196 came from, but didn't z9's come out in 2009, z10's in 2010, EC12's in 2012... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ken Porowski Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 1:54 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 It's always referred to as zNext until the formal announcement and final name is released. CIT | Ken Porowski | VP Mainframe Engineering | Information Technology | +1 973 740 5459 (tel) | ken.porow...@cit.com This email message and any accompanying materials may contain proprietary, privileged and confidential information of CIT Group Inc. or its subsidiaries or affiliates (collectively, “CIT”), and are intended solely for the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication, any use, disclosure, printing, copying or distribution, or reliance on the contents, of this communication is strictly prohibited. CIT disclaims any liability for the review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or the taking of any action in reliance upon, this communication by persons other than the intended recipient(s). If you have received this communication in error, please reply to the sender advising of the error in transmission, and immediately delete and destroy the communication and any accompanying materials. To the extent permitted by applicable law, CIT and others may inspect, review, monitor, analyze, copy, record and retain any communications sent from or received at this email address. -Original Message- Mark Pace Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 1:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Beyond the EC12 I don't remember where I heard this, or even I really did hear this, but immediately, Next jumped to the front of my brain. zNext - NextZ. It could be real, it could just a hallucination. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information in this transmission may contain proprietary and non-public information of BBT or its affiliates and may be subject to protection under the law. The message is intended for the sole use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, distribution or copying of the message is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please delete the material from your system without reading the content and notify the sender immediately of the inadvertent transmission. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
My bet: BHV3B4 Reason: completely unrelated to the predecessor, Of course B4 is number of procesors in hex, 3 could be understood as third generation (z196 - 1 was first generation), V is for Virtualization, finally BH stand for absolutely nothing. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland --- Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2014 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.696.052 złote. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
Ah, thanks, I was sure I had heard it before. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Ken Porowski ken.porow...@cit.com wrote: It's always referred to as zNext until the formal announcement and final name is released. CIT | Ken Porowski | VP Mainframe Engineering | Information Technology | +1 973 740 5459 (tel) | ken.porow...@cit.com This email message and any accompanying materials may contain proprietary, privileged and confidential information of CIT Group Inc. or its subsidiaries or affiliates (collectively, “CIT”), and are intended solely for the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication, any use, disclosure, printing, copying or distribution, or reliance on the contents, of this communication is strictly prohibited. CIT disclaims any liability for the review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or the taking of any action in reliance upon, this communication by persons other than the intended recipient(s). If you have received this communication in error, please reply to the sender advising of the error in transmission, and immediately delete and destroy the communication and any accompanying materials. To the extent permitted by applicable law, CIT and others may inspect, review, monitor, analyze, copy, record and retain any communications sent from or received at this email address. -Original Message- Mark Pace Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 1:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Beyond the EC12 I don't remember where I heard this, or even I really did hear this, but immediately, Next jumped to the front of my brain. zNext - NextZ. It could be real, it could just a hallucination. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent Mainline’s positions or opinions Mark D Pace Senior Systems Engineer Mainline Information Systems -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
And if IBM has disclosed anything to ISVs, the NDAs undoubtedly prohibit disclosing even that fact publicly. -jc- -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 1:28 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 We don't understand where the name z196 came from Z196 = 1st generation 96 cores. It was a silly name. IBM has been very tight-lipped about the next machine. No models have been mentioned. No availability dates have been given. No features have been discussed. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ** Information contained in this e-mail message and in any attachments thereto is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems, notify the sender immediately, and refrain from using or disclosing all or any part of its content to any other person. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
On 4/25/2014 10:57 AM, DiBianca, Robert wrote: Around here, people are betting on EC14 or EC15. We don't understand where the name z196 came from, but didn't z9's come out in 2009, z10's in 2010, EC12's in 2012... I realize time flies, but the IBM Danu z9-109 EC 2094 (9th generation processor) was announced in July 2005 and available in the third quarter of that year. The IBM z10 EC 2097 (10th generation) was first available in 1Q 2008. The IBM z196 zEnterprise 2817 (11th generation) was first available in 3Q 2010. The IBM zEnterprise EC12 2827 (12th generation) was first available in 3Q 2012. Bob Shannon has already answered the question about what z196 means. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
That's because we haven't ANNOUNCED anything. :-) TGIF :-) Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: Bob Shannon bshan...@rocketsoftware.com To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu Date: 25/04/2014 19:28 Subject:Re: Beyond the EC12 Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu We don't understand where the name z196 came from Z196 = 1st generation 96 cores. It was a silly name. IBM has been very tight-lipped about the next machine. No models have been mentioned. No availability dates have been given. No features have been discussed. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
I can neither confirm nor deny that I know anything at all. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com wrote: And if IBM has disclosed anything to ISVs, the NDAs undoubtedly prohibit disclosing even that fact publicly. -jc- -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 1:28 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 We don't understand where the name z196 came from Z196 = 1st generation 96 cores. It was a silly name. IBM has been very tight-lipped about the next machine. No models have been mentioned. No availability dates have been given. No features have been discussed. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ** Information contained in this e-mail message and in any attachments thereto is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems, notify the sender immediately, and refrain from using or disclosing all or any part of its content to any other person. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- The postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent Mainline’s positions or opinions Mark D Pace Senior Systems Engineer Mainline Information Systems -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
It's all about what we don't know that we don't know. . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 626-302-7535 Office 323-715-0595 Mobile jo.skip.robin...@sce.com From: Mark Pace pacemainl...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, Date: 04/25/2014 11:59 AM Subject:Re: Beyond the EC12 Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU I can neither confirm nor deny that I know anything at all. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com wrote: And if IBM has disclosed anything to ISVs, the NDAs undoubtedly prohibit disclosing even that fact publicly. -jc- -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 1:28 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 We don't understand where the name z196 came from Z196 = 1st generation 96 cores. It was a silly name. IBM has been very tight-lipped about the next machine. No models have been mentioned. No availability dates have been given. No features have been discussed. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
My suspicion is: ZFH3FF-z/Fog Horn 3rd Gen 255 processors and will be end of line for Z. To be sup'd by VCN4FFF-Virtual Cumulo nimbus 4th gen 1023 engines. Well it is Friday! In a message dated 4/25/2014 1:25:07 P.M. Central Daylight Time, r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl writes: My bet: BHV3B4 Reason: completely unrelated to the predecessor, -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
W dniu 2014-04-25 20:41, Chase, John pisze: And if IBM has disclosed anything to ISVs, the NDAs undoubtedly prohibit disclosing even that fact publicly. ISV may not know the names, just because they don't need to know names. They need to know technical details of zNEXT. BTW: Let's guess: 1. How many CP's will be available in zNEXT? 2. How many MIPS per CP? 3. How many BOOKs, if any? 4. New I/O cards/ports? 5. How much memory? My bets: 1. ~120 (without SAPs, spares) 2. 50% more than EC12. 3. 4 BOOKs, different number of cores per BOOK - as today. 4. FICON 16Gbps, two-port 10GbEth, maybe 40GbEth? 5. 1.5 TB per book, 6 TB per CPC -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2014 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 168.696.052 złote. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
On 25 April 2014 14:41, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com wrote: And if IBM has disclosed anything to ISVs, the NDAs undoubtedly prohibit disclosing even that fact publicly. I've seen lots of NDA technical material over the years, but in my experience IBM has *never* disclosed any branding info to ISVs before announcement. The NDAs refer to zNEXT right to the end. Of course I'm a technical guy, and there may well be other ISV marketing people who see other stuff, but marketing is IBM's core, and not something I imagine they disclose to much of anyone. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
Well sure. It's need to know. If the next mainframe is going to have 96-bit word support and a Load Inverted instruction, this is information that may be of benefit to an ISV and, given a couple of months' lead time, allow them to offer Day One support. But whether it is going to be called the z1396 or the 360-2014 hardly matters. Well, I suppose an ISV might need a week's lead time to draft a press release and/or prepare a Web page announcing the Day One support, but that's about it. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Harminc Sent: Friday, April 25, 2014 6:15 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Beyond the EC12 On 25 April 2014 14:41, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com wrote: And if IBM has disclosed anything to ISVs, the NDAs undoubtedly prohibit disclosing even that fact publicly. I've seen lots of NDA technical material over the years, but in my experience IBM has *never* disclosed any branding info to ISVs before announcement. The NDAs refer to zNEXT right to the end. Of course I'm a technical guy, and there may well be other ISV marketing people who see other stuff, but marketing is IBM's core, and not something I imagine they disclose to much of anyone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Beyond the EC12
I've heard rumors that the names are often not determined until shortly before release anyway, after some not-so-fun marketing meetings... On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 6:14 PM, Tony Harminc t...@harminc.net wrote: On 25 April 2014 14:41, Chase, John jch...@ussco.com wrote: And if IBM has disclosed anything to ISVs, the NDAs undoubtedly prohibit disclosing even that fact publicly. I've seen lots of NDA technical material over the years, but in my experience IBM has *never* disclosed any branding info to ISVs before announcement. The NDAs refer to zNEXT right to the end. Of course I'm a technical guy, and there may well be other ISV marketing people who see other stuff, but marketing is IBM's core, and not something I imagine they disclose to much of anyone. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- zMan -- I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
