Re: [External] Re: ISPF dsn sort
Many thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread. My tests corroborate the fact that selecting the "Display Total Tracks" option affects the behaviour. Also the help for the panel (in particular for that option) explains the behaviour I am seeing. Ho hum. I live and learn. 46 years on mainframe and still going.. So as the OP I say, "Great job folks, thanks for the help". Lennie Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw Consultant working on contract for BMC mainframe Services by RSM Partners ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Pommier, Rex Sent: 15 October 2020 15:01 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: ISPF dsn sort That's not what is happening. A different poster nailed it earlier. If the "Display Total Tracks" is selected on the dataset list utility screen, the first time you hit PF10/11 to go right or left, ISPF needs to read the entire list in order to populate the "total tracks" line. Thus you get the progress bar. If you don't have that selected, ISPF only works with the screen's worth of data so no progress bar until you do a sort. Once the sort is requested, ISPF needs to read the entire list to be able to do the sort correctly. Once ISPF has all the information it needs, you can resort the data any way you want and it won't need to reread it. At least that's what I've seen with my testing of it. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 6:02 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: ISPF dsn sort I've never noticed the behavior, but now that the OP has pointed it out, the reading-the-list-again explanation doesn't satisfy me. If there's a delay and a progress bar when reading the list to do the sort, why is there no similar delay when scrolling right to see the data which (according to this explanation) has not yet been collected? I'm not buying it. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Our world is not divided by race, color, gender, or religion. Our world is divided into wise people and fools. And fools divide themselves by race, color, gender, or religion. -Mohamad Safa */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 13:12 This is one of those IIRC posts. I think this behavior goes back decades. The reason is as Kolusu states. Moreover--IIRC--the very appearance of the 'progress bar' was in response to what could be a long delay. Delay to the point that the user might suspect that the process was hung outright. I remember when the bar was introduced with that very explanation. Everything in those distant days was slower than today. As for the difference in processing, I could imagine an RFE asking for a 'quick sort' based only on the data previously collected and displayed. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Sri h Kolusu Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 9:47 AM 3.4 listing shows the list of datasets sorted on the Dataset name by default. Now when you issue SORT DSORG command , ISPF needs to read in the list once again and make DSORG as the primary key and then present you the list sorted on that order. You will -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:18 This is something that has puzzled me for years. I can use ISPF 3.4 to display a set of data sets. If I scroll right then I am shown the space usage figures. Scroll right again and I am shown the DSORG, RECFM, Lrecl and Blksize. If I now enter SORT DSORG I am presented with a progress bar and I am informed that information is being collected to perform the sort. Given that the DSORG was already displayed, why does ISPF go and collect the same information again? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-M
Re: [External] Re: ISPF dsn sort
Classification: Limited I concur; deselecting 'Display Total Tracks' causes the progress bar to appear on a SORT command - I always have that selected, along with 'Show Catalog Name'. Andy Styles z/Series System Programmer -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Pommier, Rex Sent: 15 October 2020 15:01 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [External] Re: ISPF dsn sort -- This email has reached the Bank via an external source -- That's not what is happening. A different poster nailed it earlier. If the "Display Total Tracks" is selected on the dataset list utility screen, the first time you hit PF10/11 to go right or left, ISPF needs to read the entire list in order to populate the "total tracks" line. Thus you get the progress bar. If you don't have that selected, ISPF only works with the screen's worth of data so no progress bar until you do a sort. Once the sort is requested, ISPF needs to read the entire list to be able to do the sort correctly. Once ISPF has all the information it needs, you can resort the data any way you want and it won't need to reread it. At least that's what I've seen with my testing of it. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 6:02 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: ISPF dsn sort I've never noticed the behavior, but now that the OP has pointed it out, the reading-the-list-again explanation doesn't satisfy me. If there's a delay and a progress bar when reading the list to do the sort, why is there no similar delay when scrolling right to see the data which (according to this explanation) has not yet been collected? I'm not buying it. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Our world is not divided by race, color, gender, or religion. Our world is divided into wise people and fools. And fools divide themselves by race, color, gender, or religion. -Mohamad Safa */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 13:12 This is one of those IIRC posts. I think this behavior goes back decades. The reason is as Kolusu states. Moreover--IIRC--the very appearance of the 'progress bar' was in response to what could be a long delay. Delay to the point that the user might suspect that the process was hung outright. I remember when the bar was introduced with that very explanation. Everything in those distant days was slower than today. As for the difference in processing, I could imagine an RFE asking for a 'quick sort' based only on the data previously collected and displayed. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Sri h Kolusu Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 9:47 AM 3.4 listing shows the list of datasets sorted on the Dataset name by default. Now when you issue SORT DSORG command , ISPF needs to read in the list once again and make DSORG as the primary key and then present you the list sorted on that order. You will -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:18 This is something that has puzzled me for years. I can use ISPF 3.4 to display a set of data sets. If I scroll right then I am shown the space usage figures. Scroll right again and I am shown the DSORG, RECFM, Lrecl and Blksize. If I now enter SORT DSORG I am presented with a progress bar and I am informed that information is being collected to perform the sort. Given that the DSORG was already displayed, why does ISPF go and collect the same information again? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Lloyds Banking Group plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC95000. Telephone: 0131 225 4555. Lloyds Bank plc. Registere
Re: [External] Re: ISPF dsn sort
That's not what is happening. A different poster nailed it earlier. If the "Display Total Tracks" is selected on the dataset list utility screen, the first time you hit PF10/11 to go right or left, ISPF needs to read the entire list in order to populate the "total tracks" line. Thus you get the progress bar. If you don't have that selected, ISPF only works with the screen's worth of data so no progress bar until you do a sort. Once the sort is requested, ISPF needs to read the entire list to be able to do the sort correctly. Once ISPF has all the information it needs, you can resort the data any way you want and it won't need to reread it. At least that's what I've seen with my testing of it. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 6:02 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: ISPF dsn sort I've never noticed the behavior, but now that the OP has pointed it out, the reading-the-list-again explanation doesn't satisfy me. If there's a delay and a progress bar when reading the list to do the sort, why is there no similar delay when scrolling right to see the data which (according to this explanation) has not yet been collected? I'm not buying it. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Our world is not divided by race, color, gender, or religion. Our world is divided into wise people and fools. And fools divide themselves by race, color, gender, or religion. -Mohamad Safa */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 13:12 This is one of those IIRC posts. I think this behavior goes back decades. The reason is as Kolusu states. Moreover--IIRC--the very appearance of the 'progress bar' was in response to what could be a long delay. Delay to the point that the user might suspect that the process was hung outright. I remember when the bar was introduced with that very explanation. Everything in those distant days was slower than today. As for the difference in processing, I could imagine an RFE asking for a 'quick sort' based only on the data previously collected and displayed. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Sri h Kolusu Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 9:47 AM 3.4 listing shows the list of datasets sorted on the Dataset name by default. Now when you issue SORT DSORG command , ISPF needs to read in the list once again and make DSORG as the primary key and then present you the list sorted on that order. You will -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:18 This is something that has puzzled me for years. I can use ISPF 3.4 to display a set of data sets. If I scroll right then I am shown the space usage figures. Scroll right again and I am shown the DSORG, RECFM, Lrecl and Blksize. If I now enter SORT DSORG I am presented with a progress bar and I am informed that information is being collected to perform the sort. Given that the DSORG was already displayed, why does ISPF go and collect the same information again? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: ISPF dsn sort
On Thu, 15 Oct 2020, at 12:02, Bob Bridges wrote: > I've never noticed the behavior, but now that the OP has pointed it > out, the reading-the-list-again explanation doesn't satisfy me. If > there's a delay and a progress bar when reading the list to do the > sort, why is there no similar delay when scrolling right to see the > data which (according to this explanation) has not yet been collected? Maybe because the scroll-right only has to populate one screenful's set of values, but the sort has to populate the whole list (which might be for a vast number of files)? If that's the case, you'd expect a larger delay each time you scroll the list too, at least until all the rows of the underlying table have been populated. It might be possible to work out what's going on by running the panel's logic under dialog test, if you breakpoint on various table services. -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: ISPF dsn sort
I've never noticed the behavior, but now that the OP has pointed it out, the reading-the-list-again explanation doesn't satisfy me. If there's a delay and a progress bar when reading the list to do the sort, why is there no similar delay when scrolling right to see the data which (according to this explanation) has not yet been collected? I'm not buying it. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Our world is not divided by race, color, gender, or religion. Our world is divided into wise people and fools. And fools divide themselves by race, color, gender, or religion. -Mohamad Safa */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 13:12 This is one of those IIRC posts. I think this behavior goes back decades. The reason is as Kolusu states. Moreover--IIRC--the very appearance of the 'progress bar' was in response to what could be a long delay. Delay to the point that the user might suspect that the process was hung outright. I remember when the bar was introduced with that very explanation. Everything in those distant days was slower than today. As for the difference in processing, I could imagine an RFE asking for a 'quick sort' based only on the data previously collected and displayed. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Sri h Kolusu Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 9:47 AM 3.4 listing shows the list of datasets sorted on the Dataset name by default. Now when you issue SORT DSORG command , ISPF needs to read in the list once again and make DSORG as the primary key and then present you the list sorted on that order. You will -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:18 This is something that has puzzled me for years. I can use ISPF 3.4 to display a set of data sets. If I scroll right then I am shown the space usage figures. Scroll right again and I am shown the DSORG, RECFM, Lrecl and Blksize. If I now enter SORT DSORG I am presented with a progress bar and I am informed that information is being collected to perform the sort. Given that the DSORG was already displayed, why does ISPF go and collect the same information again? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: ISPF dsn sort
This is one of those IIRC posts. I think this behavior goes back decades. The reason is as Kolusu states. Moreover--IIRC--the very appearance of the 'progress bar' was in response to what could be a long delay. Delay to the point that the user might suspect that the process was hung outright. I remember when the bar was introduced with that very explanation. Everything in those distant days was slower than today. As for the difference in processing, I could imagine an RFE asking for a 'quick sort' based only on the data previously collected and displayed. . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Sri h Kolusu Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 9:47 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: ISPF dsn sort CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL > I can use ISPF 3.4 to display a set of data sets. > Given that the DSORG was already displayed, why does ISPF go and > collect the same information again? 3.4 listing shows the list of datasets sorted on the Dataset name by default. Now when you issue SORT DSORG command , ISPF needs to read in the list once again and make DSORG as the primary key and then present you the list sorted on that order. You will Thanks, Kolusu -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: ISPF dsn sort
> I can use ISPF 3.4 to display a set of data sets. > Given that the DSORG was already displayed, why does ISPF go and collect the same information again? 3.4 listing shows the list of datasets sorted on the Dataset name by default. Now when you issue SORT DSORG command , ISPF needs to read in the list once again and make DSORG as the primary key and then present you the list sorted on that order. You will Thanks, Kolusu -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: ISPF dsn sort
Do you get the same behavior if you unselect “Show total tracks” or whatever it is? On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 10:18 AM Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw < 032fff1be9b4-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > This is something that has puzzled me for years. > > Can anyone explain the following. > > I can use ISPF 3.4 to display a set of data sets. > If I scroll right then I am shown the space usage figures. > Scroll right again and I am shown the DSORG, RECFM, Lrecl and Blksize. > > If I now enter SORT DSORG I am presented with a progress bar and I am > informed that information is being collected to perform the sort. > > Given that the DSORG was already displayed, why does ISPF go and collect > the same information again? > > > Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw > ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- Michael Babcock OneMain Financial z/OS Systems Programmer, Lead -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: ISPF dsn sort
On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 15:55:53 +, Styles, Andy (ITS zPlatform Services) wrote: >Classification: Public > >I don't get that behaviour. What I see is the progress bar displayed when >scrolling right the first time; after that ISPF presumably just uses the table >it built to display the datasets. I've tried on both z/OS 2.3 and z/OS 2.4 and >with SMS and non-SMS datasets, catalogued and uncataloged. > >Andy Styles Yes, I'm seeing what you see on z/OS 2.4, I hadn't really noticed the difference in behavior. z/OS 2.2 definitely does still behave the original way. Dana -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: ISPF dsn sort
Classification: Public I don't get that behaviour. What I see is the progress bar displayed when scrolling right the first time; after that ISPF presumably just uses the table it built to display the datasets. I've tried on both z/OS 2.3 and z/OS 2.4 and with SMS and non-SMS datasets, catalogued and uncataloged. Andy Styles z/Series System Programmer -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Dana Mitchell Sent: 13 October 2020 16:36 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ISPF dsn sort -- This email has reached the Bank via an external source -- On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 16:17:48 +0100, Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw wrote: >I can use ISPF 3.4 to display a set of data sets. >If I scroll right then I am shown the space usage figures. >Scroll right again and I am shown the DSORG, RECFM, Lrecl and Blksize. > >If I now enter SORT DSORG I am presented with a progress bar and I am informed >that information is being collected to perform the sort. > >Given that the DSORG was already displayed, why does ISPF go and collect the >same information again? > I would guess that to display DSORG, it only collects info from the DSNAMEs that fit on your screen. In order to SORT DSORG, it has to collect the entire list before displaying Dana -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Lloyds Banking Group plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC95000. Telephone: 0131 225 4555. Lloyds Bank plc. Registered Office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7HN. Registered in England and Wales no. 2065. Telephone 0207626 1500. Bank of Scotland plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC327000. Telephone: 03457 801 801. Lloyds Bank Corporate Markets plc. Registered office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7HN. Registered in England and Wales no. 10399850. Scottish Widows Schroder Personal Wealth Limited. Registered Office: 25 Gresham Street, London EC2V 7HN. Registered in England and Wales no. 11722983. Lloyds Bank plc, Bank of Scotland plc and Lloyds Bank Corporate Markets plc are authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and Prudential Regulation Authority. Scottish Widows Schroder Personal Wealth Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. Lloyds Bank Corporate Markets Wertpapierhandelsbank GmbH is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Lloyds Bank Corporate Markets plc. Lloyds Bank Corporate Markets Wertpapierhandelsbank GmbH has its registered office at Thurn-und-Taxis Platz 6, 60313 Frankfurt, Germany. The company is registered with the Amtsgericht Frankfurt am Main, HRB 111650. Lloyds Bank Corporate Markets Wertpapierhandelsbank GmbH is supervised by the Bundesanstalt für Finanzdienstleistungsaufsicht. Halifax is a division of Bank of Scotland plc. HBOS plc. Registered Office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ. Registered in Scotland no. SC218813. This e-mail (including any attachments) is private and confidential and may contain privileged material. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete it (including any attachments) immediately. You must not copy, distribute, disclose or use any of the information in it or any attachments. Telephone calls may be monitored or recorded. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: ISPF dsn sort
On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 16:17:48 +0100, Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw wrote: >I can use ISPF 3.4 to display a set of data sets. >If I scroll right then I am shown the space usage figures. >Scroll right again and I am shown the DSORG, RECFM, Lrecl and Blksize. > >If I now enter SORT DSORG I am presented with a progress bar and I am informed >that information is being collected to perform the sort. > >Given that the DSORG was already displayed, why does ISPF go and collect the >same information again? > I would guess that to display DSORG, it only collects info from the DSNAMEs that fit on your screen. In order to SORT DSORG, it has to collect the entire list before displaying Dana -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
ISPF dsn sort
This is something that has puzzled me for years. Can anyone explain the following. I can use ISPF 3.4 to display a set of data sets. If I scroll right then I am shown the space usage figures. Scroll right again and I am shown the DSORG, RECFM, Lrecl and Blksize. If I now enter SORT DSORG I am presented with a progress bar and I am informed that information is being collected to perform the sort. Given that the DSORG was already displayed, why does ISPF go and collect the same information again? Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
