Looking for a CA-1 feature.
Hello group, I am looking for a feature in CA-1, that I wished to be there, but that is not there as far as I can find. Maybe someone has a good idea. I am looking at implenting disk-tape conversion for large datasets, i.e. write them directly to tape i.s.o. to disk. Since we have a VTS, with more than sufficient virtual units and more than sufficient performance, we have a potential group of large datasets, that can well be placed on tape. It has some restrictions of course, like dsorg and parallel access, but that is no problem. There is only one issue, that bothers me when the dataset is under CA-1 control i.s.o. SMS control. Under SMS, I can specify, with 'retain days only backup', how long the last backup should be retained after the dataset has been expired, scratched or removed in some way. This enables panic questions "the dataset is correctly expired, but yet I suddenly need it after one month" to be answered and even sometimes produces edible or drinkable presents from happy clients. I am looking for a similar feature under CA-1 control, but I cannot find it. The extended retention options do not give the same result, the dataset is available and cataloged, while under SMS it will be uncataloged and virtually gone. In the CA-1 situation the user can process the dataset and is not aware of the fact that the data was not planned to be available, which he/she would have noticed under SMS control. Looking through the CA-1 options, I can't find an equivalent of SMS's 'retain days only backup' option. Is there a similar feature in CA-1? Thanks, Kees. For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Looking for a CA-1 feature.
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:26:28 +0200, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM wrote: > >This enables >panic questions "the dataset is correctly expired, but yet I suddenly >need it after one month" to be answered and even sometimes produces >edible or drinkable presents from happy clients. > And I just finished filling out a sternly-worded questionnaire from my employer requiring that I affirm that I participate in no such activities. I can't help thing of an infamous statement by Jesse Unruh. GIYF; look for "Jesse Unruh lobbyist quotation". (NSFW, in some versions). -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Looking for a CA-1 feature.
What type of VTS? If a TS7700 family you can set some retention periods in there that will keep the "tape" after a certain length before it totally gone even after a scratch occurs. Is this a normal occurrence or rare? If more normal I would look at the retention rules for those datasets and confer with the owners if they are needed longer than they think Lizette -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vernooij, CP - SPLXM Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 6:26 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Looking for a CA-1 feature. Hello group, I am looking for a feature in CA-1, that I wished to be there, but that is not there as far as I can find. Maybe someone has a good idea. I am looking at implenting disk-tape conversion for large datasets, i.e. write them directly to tape i.s.o. to disk. Since we have a VTS, with more than sufficient virtual units and more than sufficient performance, we have a potential group of large datasets, that can well be placed on tape. It has some restrictions of course, like dsorg and parallel access, but that is no problem. There is only one issue, that bothers me when the dataset is under CA-1 control i.s.o. SMS control. Under SMS, I can specify, with 'retain days only backup', how long the last backup should be retained after the dataset has been expired, scratched or removed in some way. This enables panic questions "the dataset is correctly expired, but yet I suddenly need it after one month" to be answered and even sometimes produces edible or drinkable presents from happy clients. I am looking for a similar feature under CA-1 control, but I cannot find it. The extended retention options do not give the same result, the dataset is available and cataloged, while under SMS it will be uncataloged and virtually gone. In the CA-1 situation the user can process the dataset and is not aware of the fact that the data was not planned to be available, which he/she would have noticed under SMS control. Looking through the CA-1 options, I can't find an equivalent of SMS's 'retain days only backup' option. Is there a similar feature in CA-1? Thanks, Kees. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Looking for a CA-1 feature.
It is a TS7700 and yes, you can set it there for an entire fast-ready category and I want it for selective datasets. Keeping all 'scratched' tapes non-mountable for 100 days, will cost me too much tape and storage. It is rare, as rare as you need datasets in their 'retain days only backup' grace period of definite disappearance. It is a last resort, after you have 'saved the project' with this option, you can start reconsidering retention periods. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 16:03 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Looking for a CA-1 feature. What type of VTS? If a TS7700 family you can set some retention periods in there that will keep the "tape" after a certain length before it totally gone even after a scratch occurs. Is this a normal occurrence or rare? If more normal I would look at the retention rules for those datasets and confer with the owners if they are needed longer than they think Lizette -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Vernooij, CP - SPLXM Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 6:26 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Looking for a CA-1 feature. Hello group, I am looking for a feature in CA-1, that I wished to be there, but that is not there as far as I can find. Maybe someone has a good idea. I am looking at implenting disk-tape conversion for large datasets, i.e. write them directly to tape i.s.o. to disk. Since we have a VTS, with more than sufficient virtual units and more than sufficient performance, we have a potential group of large datasets, that can well be placed on tape. It has some restrictions of course, like dsorg and parallel access, but that is no problem. There is only one issue, that bothers me when the dataset is under CA-1 control i.s.o. SMS control. Under SMS, I can specify, with 'retain days only backup', how long the last backup should be retained after the dataset has been expired, scratched or removed in some way. This enables panic questions "the dataset is correctly expired, but yet I suddenly need it after one month" to be answered and even sometimes produces edible or drinkable presents from happy clients. I am looking for a similar feature under CA-1 control, but I cannot find it. The extended retention options do not give the same result, the dataset is available and cataloged, while under SMS it will be uncataloged and virtually gone. In the CA-1 situation the user can process the dataset and is not aware of the fact that the data was not planned to be available, which he/she would have noticed under SMS control. Looking through the CA-1 options, I can't find an equivalent of SMS's 'retain days only backup' option. Is there a similar feature in CA-1? Thanks, Kees. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Looking for a CA-1 feature.
Kees, Of course a big (huge) part of this is that while your DASD management product will make backups of your DASD data sets; it does not make backups of TAPE data sets. And as Lizette indicated, you also have MUCH more flexability in terms of retention of TAPE data sets then you do on DASD. For example, on DASD it is normally a case of "keep until un-cataloged or specifically expired"; while TAPE has retention periods, cycle control and even days-since-last-use in addition to CATALOG control. One option that you might consider would be use of the R9 option and putting these files under catalog control. This way, they would be retained as long as they are cataloged (must like when they were on DASD) and after they have been un-cataloged (and no longer available through simple DSN= processing) they could STILL be retained for the xxx days specified in the R9 option (30 days for example). So, when the file is no longer cataloged and the user (after getting a JCL error because the file is gone) realizes the file has been un-cataloged and is gone and calls in a panic; you can simply re-catalog the file and get your "thank you" gift. The down-side of the R9 option is that it will apply to ALL TAPE files that are under catalog control. At this time, we do not have an option to apply a longer R9 value to some files and not to other files. However, that would be something that could be done with an exit if you wanted a "long grace period" to be applied to only selected tape files. This however then brings up the question of which files do you want protected with a "long grace period" and which ones do you not care about and want to scratch as soon as they are un-cataloged? That might then become another large discussion. Russell Witt CA 1 Principal Software Architect --- On 07/31/13, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM wrote: Hello group, I am looking for a feature in CA-1, that I wished to be there, but that is not there as far as I can find. Maybe someone has a good idea. I am looking at implenting disk-tape conversion for large datasets, i.e. write them directly to tape i.s.o. to disk. Since we have a VTS, with more than sufficient virtual units and more than sufficient performance, we have a potential group of large datasets, that can well be placed on tape. It has some restrictions of course, like dsorg and parallel access, but that is no problem. There is only one issue, that bothers me when the dataset is under CA-1 control i.s.o. SMS control. Under SMS, I can specify, with 'retain days only backup', how long the last backup should be retained after the dataset has been expired, scratched or removed in some way. This enables panic questions "the dataset is correctly expired, but yet I suddenly need it after one month" to be answered and even sometimes produces edible or drinkable presents from happy clients. I am looking for a similar feature under CA-1 control, but I cannot find it. The extended retention options do not give the same result, the dataset is available and cataloged, while under SMS it will be uncataloged and virtually gone. In the CA-1 situation the user can process the dataset and is not aware of the fact that the data was not planned to be available, which he/she would have noticed under SMS control. Looking through the CA-1 options, I can't find an equivalent of SMS's 'retain days only backup' option. Is there a similar feature in CA-1? Thanks, Kees. For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / sig
Re: Looking for a CA-1 feature.
EXPDT=90nnn (to 90365) Keeps nnn days after deletion. Normal used might be 90005, where it is not deleted until 5 days after deleting. But alter the EXPDT to keep the last one for up to 365 after deleting. Re-catalog before the expire date to recover. On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:26 AM, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM wrote: > Hello group, > > I am looking for a feature in CA-1, > Under SMS, I can specify, with 'retain days only backup', how long the last > backup should be retained after the > dataset has been expired, scratched or removed in some way. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Looking for a CA-1 feature.
Mike, No, that is not quite what EXPDT=90nnn does. The EXPDT=90nnn is for CATALOG/DAYS where the nnn is the minimum number of days the file will be kept and then be put under catalog-control. It is useful for files created in very-very long-running jobs that may start on Monday (so the tape file goes through OPEN on Monday) but isn't cataloged until STEP-Termination occurs on Friday. Normally, this type of tape file would be scratched on Wednesday if it was put under simple CATALOG control (since it would 2-days old and not on the MVS/Catalog yet). If an EXPDT=90007, it would be retained for a minimum of 7 days and only then would be put under CATALOG control. I believe what Kees is looking for is some way to have tapes under CATALOG control but kept for an extra xx days after they have been un-cataloged. Russell Witt CA 1 Principal Software Architect - On 07/31/13, Mike Schwab wrote: EXPDT=90nnn (to 90365) Keeps nnn days after deletion. Normal used might be 90005, where it is not deleted until 5 days after deleting. But alter the EXPDT to keep the last one for up to 365 after deleting. Re-catalog before the expire date to recover. On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:26 AM, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM wrote: > Hello group, > > I am looking for a feature in CA-1, > Under SMS, I can specify, with 'retain days only backup', how long the last > backup should be retained after the > dataset has been expired, scratched or removed in some way. -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Looking for a CA-1 feature.
According to Kees, he cannot hold on to lots of tapes just in case. So unless there was a known smaller number of files on tapes that are typically required to be extend, I am not sure this will work. It was stated by Kees Keeping all 'scratched' tapes non-mountable for 100 days, will cost me too much tape and storage. It is rare, as rare as you need datasets in their 'retain days only backup' grace period of definite disappearance. It is a last resort, after you have 'saved the project' with this option, you can start reconsidering retention periods. So it sounds like there is no way to know when such a tape needs to be recovered. Lizette -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Russell Witt Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 7:49 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Looking for a CA-1 feature. Kees, Of course a big (huge) part of this is that while your DASD management product will make backups of your DASD data sets; it does not make backups of TAPE data sets. And as Lizette indicated, you also have MUCH more flexability in terms of retention of TAPE data sets then you do on DASD. For example, on DASD it is normally a case of "keep until un-cataloged or specifically expired"; while TAPE has retention periods, cycle control and even days-since-last-use in addition to CATALOG control. One option that you might consider would be use of the R9 option and putting these files under catalog control. This way, they would be retained as long as they are cataloged (must like when they were on DASD) and after they have been un-cataloged (and no longer available through simple DSN= processing) they could STILL be retained for the xxx days specified in the R9 option (30 days for example). So, when the file is no longer cataloged and the user (after getting a JCL error because the file is gone) realizes the file has been un-cataloged and is gone and calls in a panic; you can simply re-catalog the file and get your "thank you" gift. The down-side of the R9 option is that it will apply to ALL TAPE files that are under catalog control. At this time, we do not have an option to apply a longer R9 value to some files and not to other files. However, that would be something that could be done with an exit if you wanted a "long grace period" to be applied to only selected tape files. This however then brings up the question of which files do you want protected with a "long grace period" and which ones do you not care about and want to scratch as soon as they are un-cataloged? That might then become another large discussion. Russell Witt CA 1 Principal Software Architect --- On 07/31/13, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM wrote: Hello group, I am looking for a feature in CA-1, that I wished to be there, but that is not there as far as I can find. Maybe someone has a good idea. I am looking at implenting disk-tape conversion for large datasets, i.e. write them directly to tape i.s.o. to disk. Since we have a VTS, with more than sufficient virtual units and more than sufficient performance, we have a potential group of large datasets, that can well be placed on tape. It has some restrictions of course, like dsorg and parallel access, but that is no problem. There is only one issue, that bothers me when the dataset is under CA-1 control i.s.o. SMS control. Under SMS, I can specify, with 'retain days only backup', how long the last backup should be retained after the dataset has been expired, scratched or removed in some way. This enables panic questions "the dataset is correctly expired, but yet I suddenly need it after one month" to be answered and even sometimes produces edible or drinkable presents from happy clients. I am looking for a similar feature under CA-1 control, but I cannot find it. The extended retention options do not give the same result, the dataset is available and cataloged, while under SMS it will be uncataloged and virtually gone. In the CA-1 situation the user can process the dataset and is not aware of the fact that the data was not planned to be available, which he/she would have noticed under SMS control. Looking through the CA-1 options, I can't find an equivalent of SMS's 'retain days only backup' option. Is there a similar feature in CA-1? Thanks, Kees. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Looking for a CA-1 feature.
What our VTS does is scratch enough of VTAPEs to keep 5% space ready to be written to in a particular file system. So it might be a week or two or a few months before a particular tape is removed from VTAPE. If the EXPDT=90nnn doesn't work like I thought, then set a fixed EXPDT for selected datasets before they are uncataloged to keep some of them around for longer. Maybe a master file backup once a month? On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Lizette Koehler wrote: > According to Kees, he cannot hold on to lots of tapes just in case. So > unless there was a known smaller number of files on tapes that are typically > required to be extend, I am not sure this will work. > > It was stated by Kees > >Keeping all 'scratched' tapes non-mountable for 100 days, will cost me too > much tape and storage. >It is rare, as rare as you need datasets in their 'retain days only > backup' grace period of definite disappearance. It is a last resort, after > you have 'saved the project' with this option, you can start reconsidering > retention periods. > > > So it sounds like there is no way to know when such a tape needs to be > recovered. > > Lizette > -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Looking for a CA-1 feature.
Lizette, Yes, with that in mind you are correct. Of course, the whole business with DASD files is that there IS a backup on TAPE. So, if you have "special" files that you also want protected and move them to TAPE as the primary media, does that mean that the backup requirement is gone? If it isn't, then you go back to having a backup of the TAPE file; which means having a duplicate copy of the file on the same media. Will that be too expensive, no. After all, originally you had the primary on DASD and a TAPE as a backup. And DASD is more expensive than tape, even if it is Virtual Tape. So now, you would have a primary on TAPE and a backup on TAPE. Still, cheaper than the original DASD/TAPE combination. So, if you have "special" files that you want protected for longer periods of time you simply make backups of them (CA Copycat, Rocket TAPESAVER, whatever). For example, you could have an automated system that copies all these "special" files to a physical high-capacity cartridge the day before they are scratched - and keep the physical cartridge on the shelf for 60-days. That would mean having an additional 60 high-capacity cartridges (one used each day and kept for 60 days before being re-used). The biggest expense would be the copy operation itself. Russell -- On 07/31/13, Lizette Koehler wrote: According to Kees, he cannot hold on to lots of tapes just in case. So unless there was a known smaller number of files on tapes that are typically required to be extend, I am not sure this will work. It was stated by Kees Keeping all 'scratched' tapes non-mountable for 100 days, will cost me too much tape and storage. It is rare, as rare as you need datasets in their 'retain days only backup' grace period of definite disappearance. It is a last resort, after you have 'saved the project' with this option, you can start reconsidering retention periods. So it sounds like there is no way to know when such a tape needs to be recovered. Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Looking for a CA-1 feature.
Russel, Lizette, One of the requirements I gave myself is to make it transparant to the user. I have stopped finding owners of datasets, arguing about their requirements, explain the technical need and go through all kinds of testing and acceptance procedures and decided to do everything under the hood transparently. E.g. I gather statistical information about use of dataset and calculated a group of dataset patterns of datasets that are (nearly) never referenced again after the day of creation. In my ACS routines I change the requested management class in order to Archive (CA-DISK term for Migrate) them after 2 days. Simple disk space saving without any user discussions. Therefor I don't want to change anything in the specified dataset retention period, but I want to provide a safety net, that still provides a last resort if the dataset has been expired correctly according to all the requirements. The 'retain days only backup' is such a safety net, that is not a user requirement, but an extra backup-backup that we provide unsolicited. I am looking for something similar if the dataset is under CA-1 control i.s.o. SMS control. The R9 feature comes close, but indeed, it is only for catalog control tapes, and for all catalog control tapes and that is too broad. The same applies to the TS7700 HOLD option for the fast ready category. It could become possible if CA-1 controls tapes with a management class, according to the SMS rules and support a 'retain days expired tape' option. Kees. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
