Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.
The road is littered with pensions now being paid by the PBGC @ a fraction of their promised benefit. In Ohio, the public employee and teachers pension funds are severely underfunded. Ohio ranked as the state with the fifth-most unfunded liabilities at $429.53 billion. The top four included California ($1.53 trillion), Illinois ($533.72 billion), Texas ($529.70 billion) and New York ($508.70 billion). Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 7:01 PM, Charles Mills wrote: No, I would guess that the two insurance companies are on the hook, at least each for their 50% share, no matter how well or poorly their investments do. I would guess that their full faith and credit is on the line. Your insurance company never says "sorry 'bout your house burning down. We invested *your* premiums in Theranos. Is there anything else we can help you with?" True, there is no upside for the pensioners, but that is kind of the nature of a defined benefit plan. There is no up potential, and relatively little down potential. (Yes, everything comes with some risk.) Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 2:51 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded. No it isn’t just a financial thing. They transferred the money & liabilities to a firm that thinks it can turn a profit on the investment. The current IBM pension liability was over funded. (Over 100%) If the new pension fund owner invests in say Bitcoin and loses 2/3 like Bitcoin did over the past year, those pensions are at risk. There’s no upside risk to the pensioners, but there is downside risk. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 5:01 PM, Charles Mills wrote: It's purely a financial thing, right? Like if they had moved their checking account from Chase to Wells? Pensioners should not see any significant change. These are defined benefit plans: you get $X/month no matter who pays the bills or what the rate of return. Nor do they incur any significantly changed risk. IBM simply transferred their rate of return risk to someone who is in that business. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 1:16 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded. I’m shocked the IBM haters haven’t mentioned IBM’s announcement today regarding offloading 16 billion in pension liabilities. https://www.pionline.com/pension-risk-transfer/ibm-offloads-16-billion-pension-liabilities-annuity-purchases -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.
LOLOLOLOL see AIG. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 7:01 PM, Charles Mills wrote: No, I would guess that the two insurance companies are on the hook, at least each for their 50% share, no matter how well or poorly their investments do. I would guess that their full faith and credit is on the line. Your insurance company never says "sorry 'bout your house burning down. We invested *your* premiums in Theranos. Is there anything else we can help you with?" True, there is no upside for the pensioners, but that is kind of the nature of a defined benefit plan. There is no up potential, and relatively little down potential. (Yes, everything comes with some risk.) Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 2:51 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded. No it isn’t just a financial thing. They transferred the money & liabilities to a firm that thinks it can turn a profit on the investment. The current IBM pension liability was over funded. (Over 100%) If the new pension fund owner invests in say Bitcoin and loses 2/3 like Bitcoin did over the past year, those pensions are at risk. There’s no upside risk to the pensioners, but there is downside risk. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 5:01 PM, Charles Mills wrote: It's purely a financial thing, right? Like if they had moved their checking account from Chase to Wells? Pensioners should not see any significant change. These are defined benefit plans: you get $X/month no matter who pays the bills or what the rate of return. Nor do they incur any significantly changed risk. IBM simply transferred their rate of return risk to someone who is in that business. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 1:16 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded. I’m shocked the IBM haters haven’t mentioned IBM’s announcement today regarding offloading 16 billion in pension liabilities. https://www.pionline.com/pension-risk-transfer/ibm-offloads-16-billion-pension-liabilities-annuity-purchases -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.
No, I would guess that the two insurance companies are on the hook, at least each for their 50% share, no matter how well or poorly their investments do. I would guess that their full faith and credit is on the line. Your insurance company never says "sorry 'bout your house burning down. We invested *your* premiums in Theranos. Is there anything else we can help you with?" True, there is no upside for the pensioners, but that is kind of the nature of a defined benefit plan. There is no up potential, and relatively little down potential. (Yes, everything comes with some risk.) Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 2:51 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded. No it isn’t just a financial thing. They transferred the money & liabilities to a firm that thinks it can turn a profit on the investment. The current IBM pension liability was over funded. (Over 100%) If the new pension fund owner invests in say Bitcoin and loses 2/3 like Bitcoin did over the past year, those pensions are at risk. There’s no upside risk to the pensioners, but there is downside risk. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 5:01 PM, Charles Mills wrote: It's purely a financial thing, right? Like if they had moved their checking account from Chase to Wells? Pensioners should not see any significant change. These are defined benefit plans: you get $X/month no matter who pays the bills or what the rate of return. Nor do they incur any significantly changed risk. IBM simply transferred their rate of return risk to someone who is in that business. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 1:16 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded. I’m shocked the IBM haters haven’t mentioned IBM’s announcement today regarding offloading 16 billion in pension liabilities. https://www.pionline.com/pension-risk-transfer/ibm-offloads-16-billion-pension-liabilities-annuity-purchases -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.
AIG was so bad in 2007-08 the government had to bail them out to the tune of 85 billion and 80% government ownership. And they were America’s largest insurer. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 5:47 PM, Tony Harminc wrote: On Wed, 14 Sept 2022 at 17:02, Charles Mills wrote: > It's purely a financial thing, right? Like if they had moved their > checking account from Chase to Wells? > > Pensioners should not see any significant change. These are defined > benefit plans: you get $X/month no matter who pays the bills or what the > rate of return. Nor do they incur any significantly changed risk. IBM > simply transferred their rate of return risk to someone who is in that > business. > Depends on whether you think Prudential is more or less likely to go bust than IBM. Of course we think that none of these Wall Street behemoths is going anywhere, but you never know. Actually it looks as though IBM has split the transfer, so even if one of the insurance companies goes down, the other should be there to pay half. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.
No it isn’t just a financial thing. They transferred the money & liabilities to a firm that thinks it can turn a profit on the investment. The current IBM pension liability was over funded. (Over 100%) If the new pension fund owner invests in say Bitcoin and loses 2/3 like Bitcoin did over the past year, those pensions are at risk. There’s no upside risk to the pensioners, but there is downside risk. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 5:01 PM, Charles Mills wrote: It's purely a financial thing, right? Like if they had moved their checking account from Chase to Wells? Pensioners should not see any significant change. These are defined benefit plans: you get $X/month no matter who pays the bills or what the rate of return. Nor do they incur any significantly changed risk. IBM simply transferred their rate of return risk to someone who is in that business. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 1:16 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded. I’m shocked the IBM haters haven’t mentioned IBM’s announcement today regarding offloading 16 billion in pension liabilities. https://www.pionline.com/pension-risk-transfer/ibm-offloads-16-billion-pension-liabilities-annuity-purchases -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.
On Wed, 14 Sept 2022 at 17:02, Charles Mills wrote: > It's purely a financial thing, right? Like if they had moved their > checking account from Chase to Wells? > > Pensioners should not see any significant change. These are defined > benefit plans: you get $X/month no matter who pays the bills or what the > rate of return. Nor do they incur any significantly changed risk. IBM > simply transferred their rate of return risk to someone who is in that > business. > Depends on whether you think Prudential is more or less likely to go bust than IBM. Of course we think that none of these Wall Street behemoths is going anywhere, but you never know. Actually it looks as though IBM has split the transfer, so even if one of the insurance companies goes down, the other should be there to pay half. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.
It's purely a financial thing, right? Like if they had moved their checking account from Chase to Wells? Pensioners should not see any significant change. These are defined benefit plans: you get $X/month no matter who pays the bills or what the rate of return. Nor do they incur any significantly changed risk. IBM simply transferred their rate of return risk to someone who is in that business. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 1:16 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded. I’m shocked the IBM haters haven’t mentioned IBM’s announcement today regarding offloading 16 billion in pension liabilities. https://www.pionline.com/pension-risk-transfer/ibm-offloads-16-billion-pension-liabilities-annuity-purchases -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
