Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Phil Smith III]

Thanks for the clarification!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Tony Harminc
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2024 9:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

On Thu, 9 May 2024 at 15:01, Phil Smith III  wrote:

> [...]
>
Since classic timer units are close to microseconds
>
[...]
>

Ah, no. We've been through this one before - the last time here in 2018 as far 
as I can see. A (classic) Timer Unit is about 26 μs, which is the notional tick 
rate of bit 30 of the old S/360 Interval Timer. But this kind of Timer Unit 
continues to be available in some interfaces on z/OS, though the Interval Timer 
is long gone.

Bit 31 of the TOD clock ticks close enough to a one second rate that the high 
half of the clock can be used to count seconds for many human interface 
purposes. Bit 51 of the TOD clock ticks at (exactly) the 1 μs rate, and hence 
bit 63 at 2**-12 μs. According to the PofO this last is called a "clock unit".

Tony H.

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Tony Harminc]

On Thu, 9 May 2024 at 15:01, Phil Smith III  wrote:

> [...]
>
Since classic timer units are close to microseconds
>
[...]
>

Ah, no. We've been through this one before - the last time here in 2018 as
far as I can see. A (classic) Timer Unit is about 26 μs, which is the
notional tick rate of bit 30 of the old S/360 Interval Timer. But this kind
of Timer Unit continues to be available in some interfaces on z/OS, though
the Interval Timer is long gone.

Bit 31 of the TOD clock ticks close enough to a one second rate that the
high half of the clock can be used to count seconds for many human
interface purposes. Bit 51 of the TOD clock ticks at (exactly) the 1 μs
rate, and hence bit 63 at 2**-12 μs. According to the PofO this last is
called a "clock unit".

Tony H.

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 May 2024 15:01:28 -0400, Phil Smith III wrote:
>...
>Well, obviously in binary it's 0101011101111000 and...ok, not that. BUT I 
>did multiply it by 60 and got 21,474,720--which is suspiciously close in 
>digits (if not in scale) to 2**31, 2,147,483,648. Since classic timer units 
>are close to microseconds, this seems likely to be the source of the limit, no?
>
I thought a classic timer unit was one second/300.


Such things tend to endure for compatibility, but I don't
know that it appears in GUPI.

-- 
gil

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Pommier, Rex]

Well my mind isn't so great - as it never even thought about that.  Thanks.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 2:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

GMTA!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mike Schwab
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 2:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

357912 so 5x the 64k limit.
* 60 = 2,1474,720  seconds.
About 1/1000 of a 2GB limit if .001 second units.

On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 12:48 PM Pommier, Rex  wrote:
>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format
>
> On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:
>
> >TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is 
> >an exit controlling the use of 1440
> >
> I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 
> 4-digit value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance 
> with products that use
> 0 to mean "unlimited".)
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
>
> Gil et al,
>
> So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:
>
> minutes
> Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the 
> processor. Minutes must be a number from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).
>
> 357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
> number.
>
> Rex
>
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Phil Smith III]

GMTA!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mike Schwab
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 2:57 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

357912 so 5x the 64k limit.
* 60 = 2,1474,720  seconds.
About 1/1000 of a 2GB limit if .001 second units.

On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 12:48 PM Pommier, Rex  wrote:
>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format
>
> On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:
>
> >TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is 
> >an exit controlling the use of 1440
> >
> I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 
> 4-digit value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance 
> with products that use
> 0 to mean "unlimited".)
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
>
> Gil et al,
>
> So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:
>
> minutes
> Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the 
> processor. Minutes must be a number from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).
>
> 357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
> number.
>
> Rex
>
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>
>
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Phil Smith III]

Rex Pommier wrote, in part:
>So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:

>minutes
>Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the processor. 
>Minutes must be a >number from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).

>357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
>number.

Well, obviously in binary it's 0101011101111000 and...ok, not that. BUT I 
did multiply it by 60 and got 21,474,720--which is suspiciously close in digits 
(if not in scale) to 2**31, 2,147,483,648. Since classic timer units are close 
to microseconds, this seems likely to be the source of the limit, no?

...phsiii (feeling slightly smug about having found that, though not 100% 
convinced it's the answer!)

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Mike Schwab]

357912 so 5x the 64k limit.
* 60 = 2,1474,720  seconds.
About 1/1000 of a 2GB limit if .001 second units.

On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 12:48 PM Pommier, Rex  wrote:
>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format
>
> On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:
>
> >TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an
> >exit controlling the use of 1440
> >
> I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 4-digit 
> value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance with products 
> that use
> 0 to mean "unlimited".)
>
> --
> gil
>
> --
>
> Gil et al,
>
> So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:
>
> minutes
> Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the processor. 
> Minutes must be a number
> from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).
>
> 357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
> number.
>
> Rex
>
> --
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> reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have 
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> replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in 
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>
>
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Pommier, Rex]

It is most definitely CPU time:

Job card on my test job:
//RRPJ#180 JOB (435001),'RRP',MSGLEVEL=(1,1),   
// CLASS=T,MSGCLASS=X,TIME=(0,30),  
// NOTIFY=&SYSUID   

Abend info:
-STEPNAME PROCSTEPRC   EXCP   CONN   TCB   SRB  CLOCK   
-APPLYSMP  *SEC6   407K  32760  0.527212  0.0177301.8   

Pardon the misalignment, TCB time of .527... minutes, wall clock time of 1.8 
minutes.

Rex


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 10:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

Are you certain?

"minutes Specifies the maximum number of minutes a job may use the processor."

Seems to pretty clearly say processor (CPU) time.

Charles

On Thu, 9 May 2024 15:35:54 +, Hayim Sokolsky 
 wrote:

>In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes 
>is your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

In TUs?

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Pommier, Rex 
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 1:48 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:

>TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an
>exit controlling the use of 1440
>
I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 4-digit 
value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance with products that 
use
0 to mean "unlimited".)

--
gil

--

Gil et al,

So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:

minutes
Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the processor. Minutes 
must be a number
from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).

357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
number.

Rex

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Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

 is to large if it's stored in timer units. If that isn't an anachronism, I 
don't know what is.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
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נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 1:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:

>TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an exit 
>controlling the use of 1440
>
I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 4-digit 
value,
to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance with products that use
0 to mean "unlimited".)

--
gil

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Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

Bletch! Where is that documented?

I find the suspension of JWT by TIME=1440 to not only unintuitive but harmful. 
what if I need to limit the CPU time but allow long waits?

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Phil Smith III 
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 1:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Except that TIME=1440 or TIME=NOLIMIT unintuitively overrides that /*JOBPARM 
value, right?

Not that I think IBM has the infodev resources to spend, but the amount of 
discussion this generated suggests to me that the doc is insufficient.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 1:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

לא דובים ולא יער

TIME= on the JOB and EXEC is, was and always will be CPU time. It's the TIME= 
on the /*JOBPARM that is wall clock time.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Hayim Sokolsky <062497e865c9-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 11:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes is 
your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

As there are 1,440 minutes in a 24 hour day, TIME=1440 turns off the timing.


Hayim


Hayim Sokolsky (he/him/his)
Director, Software Engineering
Rocket Software, USA
E: hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com<mailto:hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com>
W:RocketSoftware.com<https://www.rocketsoftware.com/>

The views I have expressed in this email are my own personal views, and are not 
endorsed or supported by, and do not necessarily express or reflect, the views, 
positions or strategies of my employer.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 20:59
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

EXTERNAL EMAIL


Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES yet total CPU used is 
0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766<https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766>
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: 
https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message<https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message>
 talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Mark 
Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, 
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf<https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf>

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com<https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com>


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III 
mailto:li...@akphs.com>> wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@lis

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

[Pommier, Rex]

Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: JOB card format

On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:

>TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an 
>exit controlling the use of 1440
> 
I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 4-digit 
value, to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance with products that 
use
0 to mean "unlimited".)

--
gil

--

Gil et al,

So how did they come up with this one?  From the JCL reference manual:

minutes
Specifies the maximum number of minutes the step can use the processor. Minutes 
must be a number
from 0 through 357912 (248.55 days).

357912 minutes?  My brain isn't coming up with a logical explanation for that 
number.

Rex

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Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

I don't know a Hebrew idiom for that. 

An approximate English equivalent for לא דובים ולא יער would be There ain't no 
such animal.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 1:35 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

On Thu, 9 May 2024 17:06:01 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>לא דובים ולא יער
>
"not my monkeys, not my circus"?

>TIME= on the JOB and EXEC is, was and always will be CPU time. It's the TIME= 
>on the /*JOBPARM that is wall clock time.

--
gil

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Re: JOB card format

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 May 2024 17:06:01 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>לא דובים ולא יער
>
"not my monkeys, not my circus"?

>TIME= on the JOB and EXEC is, was and always will be CPU time. It's the TIME= 
>on the /*JOBPARM that is wall clock time.

-- 
gil

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Re: JOB card format

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 May 2024 09:25:58 -0400, Phil Smith III  wrote:
>...
>Thanks for the info, Shmuel et al. And yes, Gil, they're still card images, 
>right?
> 
Well, sort of.  Alas, too many programmers and products remain unaware
that the 80-column limit was relaxed long ago, although larger valuew
are useful only for instream data sets.

But the obsolete 89-column limit is still enforced by the SUBMIT
commands in ISPF, TSO, OMVS, and Rexx.

CDC took the opposite approach, making binary cards disk
block images, somewhat analogous to:
RECFM=VBS,BLKSZE=80
so that disk records readily spanned cards.

-- 
gil

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Re: JOB card format

[Phil Smith III]

Except that TIME=1440 or TIME=NOLIMIT unintuitively overrides that /*JOBPARM 
value, right? 

Not that I think IBM has the infodev resources to spend, but the amount of 
discussion this generated suggests to me that the doc is insufficient.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 1:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

לא דובים ולא יער

TIME= on the JOB and EXEC is, was and always will be CPU time. It's the TIME= 
on the /*JOBPARM that is wall clock time.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Hayim Sokolsky <062497e865c9-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 11:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes is 
your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

As there are 1,440 minutes in a 24 hour day, TIME=1440 turns off the timing.


Hayim


Hayim Sokolsky (he/him/his)
Director, Software Engineering
Rocket Software, USA
E: hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com<mailto:hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com>
W:RocketSoftware.com<https://www.rocketsoftware.com/>

The views I have expressed in this email are my own personal views, and are not 
endorsed or supported by, and do not necessarily express or reflect, the views, 
positions or strategies of my employer.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 20:59
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

EXTERNAL EMAIL


Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES yet total CPU used is 
0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766<https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766>
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: 
https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message<https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message>
 talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Mark 
Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, 
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf<https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf>

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com<https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com>


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III 
mailto:li...@akphs.com>> wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> 
> with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with the message: 
INFO IBM-MAIN

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lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@

Re: JOB card format

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 9 May 2024 10:44:10 -0500, Steve Beaver  wrote:

>TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an exit 
>controlling the use of 1440
> 
I wonder why the designers didn't choose , the  largest possible 4-digit 
value,
to mean "forever"?  (OTHH, I get cognitive dissonance with products that use
0 to mean "unlimited".)

-- 
gil

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Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

לא דובים ולא יער

TIME= on the JOB and EXEC is, was and always will be CPU time. It's the TIME= 
on the /*JOBPARM that is wall clock time.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Hayim Sokolsky <062497e865c9-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 11:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes is 
your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

As there are 1,440 minutes in a 24 hour day, TIME=1440 turns off the timing.


Hayim


Hayim Sokolsky (he/him/his)
Director, Software Engineering
Rocket Software, USA
E: hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com<mailto:hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com>
W:RocketSoftware.com<https://www.rocketsoftware.com/>

The views I have expressed in this email are my own personal views, and are not 
endorsed or supported by, and do not necessarily express or reflect, the views, 
positions or strategies of my employer.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 20:59
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

EXTERNAL EMAIL


Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES
yet total CPU used is 0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766<https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766>
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: 
https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message<https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message>
 talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Mark 
Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, 
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf<https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf>

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com<https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com>


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III 
mailto:li...@akphs.com>> wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with the 
> message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with the message: 
INFO IBM-MAIN

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Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
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Re: JOB card format

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

Yes, it is CPU time.
Wall time is JWT specified in SMFPRMxx.

BTW: JWT is quite good for checking the above.
Simply run IEBGENER with SYSUT2 pointing to VOL=SER=NOSUCH and specify 
TIME=(,10).


A little bit harder is to specify low service class (low velocity) and 
run some ineffective I/O like IEBGENER from/to RECFM=F.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




W dniu 09.05.2024 o 17:45, Charles Mills pisze:

Are you certain?

"minutes Specifies the maximum number of minutes a job may use the processor."

Seems to pretty clearly say processor (CPU) time.

Charles

On Thu, 9 May 2024 15:35:54 +, Hayim Sokolsky 
 wrote:


In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes is 
your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: JOB card format

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

Yes, it is CPU time.
Wall time is JWT specified in SMFPRMxx.

BTW: JWT is quite good for checking the above.
Simply run IEBGENER with SYSUT2 pointing to VOL=SER=NOSUCH and specify 
TIME=(,10).


A little bit harder is to specify low service class (low velocity) and 
run some ineffective I/O like IEBGENER from/to RECFM=F.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland




W dniu 09.05.2024 o 17:45, Charles Mills pisze:

Are you certain?

"minutes Specifies the maximum number of minutes a job may use the processor."

Seems to pretty clearly say processor (CPU) time.

Charles

On Thu, 9 May 2024 15:35:54 +, Hayim Sokolsky 
 wrote:


In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes is 
your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: JOB card format

[Charles Mills]

Are you certain?

"minutes Specifies the maximum number of minutes a job may use the processor."

Seems to pretty clearly say processor (CPU) time.

Charles

On Thu, 9 May 2024 15:35:54 +, Hayim Sokolsky 
 wrote:

>In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes 
>is your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

--
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Re: JOB card format

[Steve Beaver]

TIME=1440 turns off the timing  -- This depends on whether there is an exit 
controlling the use of 1440



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Hayim Sokolsky
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 10:36 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes is 
your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

As there are 1,440 minutes in a 24 hour day, TIME=1440 turns off the timing.


Hayim


Hayim Sokolsky (he/him/his)
Director, Software Engineering
Rocket Software, USA
E: hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com<mailto:hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com>
W:RocketSoftware.com<https://www.rocketsoftware.com/>

The views I have expressed in this email are my own personal views, and are not 
endorsed or supported by, and do not necessarily express or reflect, the views, 
positions or strategies of my employer.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 20:59
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

EXTERNAL EMAIL


Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES
yet total CPU used is 0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766<https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766>
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: 
https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message<https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message>
 talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Mark 
Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, 
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf<https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf>

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com<https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com>


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III 
mailto:li...@akphs.com>> wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with the 
> message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with the message: 
INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with 
the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
Contact Customer Support: 
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This communication and any attachments may contain confidential informat

Re: JOB card format

[Hayim Sokolsky]

In truth, TIME= is “wall time” and not CPU time. How many real-world minutes is 
your job allowed to run before it gets cancelled if it runs over.

As there are 1,440 minutes in a 24 hour day, TIME=1440 turns off the timing.


Hayim


Hayim Sokolsky (he/him/his)
Director, Software Engineering
Rocket Software, USA
E: hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com<mailto:hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com>
W:RocketSoftware.com<https://www.rocketsoftware.com/>

The views I have expressed in this email are my own personal views, and are not 
endorsed or supported by, and do not necessarily express or reflect, the views, 
positions or strategies of my employer.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 20:59
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

EXTERNAL EMAIL


Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES
yet total CPU used is 0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766<https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766>
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: 
https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message<https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message>
 talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Mark 
Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, 
https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf<https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf>

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com<https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com>


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III 
mailto:li...@akphs.com>> wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with the 
> message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu<mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu> with the message: 
INFO IBM-MAIN

--
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Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323
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Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is 
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Software immediately and destroy all copies of this communication. Thank you.

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Re: JOB card format

[Phil Smith III]

Hah, "your shop". We're a dev shop, three people, ADCD. Can't even spell 
"accounting field for JES2", since we don't go near anything where that would 
matter.

Thanks for the info, Shmuel et al. And yes, Gil, they're still card images, 
right?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 8:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

The generic format is in JCL Reference, but your installation may have imposed 
restrictions on the accounting and programmer name fields. 

Is your shop using the accounting field for JES2? If so, that's also in the JCL 
reference.  Or has IBM dropped that option?

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Phil Smith III 
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: JOB card format

I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


--
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Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

The generic format is in JCL Reference, but your installation may have imposed 
restrictions on the accounting and programmer name fields. 

Is your shop using the accounting field for JES2? If so, that's also in the JCL 
reference.  Or has IBM dropped that option?

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Phil Smith III 
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: JOB card format

I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?

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Re: JOB card format

[Allan Staller]

Classification: Confidential

JES2 ESTTIME parameter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Phil Smith III
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don't click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES yet total CPU used is 
0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message 
talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mark Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III  wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: JOB card format

[Seymour J Metz]

There are three distinct limits:

CPU time: controlled by JCL

Execution time limit: controlled by JECL.

Wait time limit: JCL only controls on/off.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Phil Smith III 
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 8:58 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES
yet total CPU used is 0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message 
talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mark Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III  wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
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lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: JOB card format

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 8 May 2024 23:45:02 +, Mark Jacobs wrote:

>Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
>this link, https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf
>
More narrowly:


"card"?


>On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III wrote:
>
>> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
>> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?

-- 
gil

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Re: JOB card format

[Mark Jacobs]

The $HASP308 message being issued for an STC (or any job as a matter of fact), 
wouldn't be related to the TIME= parameter on the JOB or EXEC card. It's likely 
being set in a /*JOBPARM (if it's a started job, not a started task) statement 
in the STC JCL.

Mark Jacobs 

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 8:58 PM, Phil Smith III  wrote:

> Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!
> 
> What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that 
> PDF talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always 
> thought it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the 
> step can use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. 
> And then it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much 
> CPU (!). Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait 
> state thing is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via 
> TIME=1440 or TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is 
> also overridden to be unlimited?
> 
> What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating
> $HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES
> 
> yet total CPU used is 0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
> https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766
> which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses 
> me, and is perhaps just wrong.
> 
> This thread: 
> https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message talks 
> about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying "Sure, 
> that's what TIME= means".
> 
> So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
> makes little sense?!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU On Behalf Of 
> Mark Jacobs
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: JOB card format
> 
> Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
> this link, https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf
> 
> Mark Jacobs
> 
> Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
> 
> GPG Public Key - 
> https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III li...@akphs.com wrote:
> 
> > I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> > documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
> > 
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: JOB card format

[Phil Smith III]

Thanks. I knew it would be something like that!

What I wanted to grok in fullness was the TIME= parameter. Page 394 of that PDF 
talks about it, but is vague about what the time value means. I always thought 
it was CPU time, and the doc says things like "number of minutes the step can 
use the processor", though that's an odd way to say "CPU time" IMHO. And then 
it talks about "continuous wait state", which tends not to use much CPU (!). 
Nowhere does it seem to define things in detail. Or maybe the wait state thing 
is just saying (clumsily) that when CPU time is unlimited (via TIME=1440 or 
TIME=NOLIMIT), the other, usually unrelated maximum wait time is also 
overridden to be unlimited?

What led me to this was an STC we have that's generating 
$HASP308  ESTIMATED TIME EXCEEDED BY 345 MINUTES
yet total CPU used is 0.02. Some Googling found this APAR:
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/OA54766
which says "These values represent Wall-Clock time". That totally confuses me, 
and is perhaps just wrong.

This thread: https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/IAGR45k7/hasp308-message 
talks about trying to limit based on wall-clock time and folks aren't saying 
"Sure, that's what TIME= means".

So...which is it? Seems like wall-clock (with or without the Random Capitals) 
makes little sense?!

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mark Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 7:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JOB card format

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III  wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
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lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: JOB card format

[Mark Jacobs]

Google JCL reference manual. You'll find the documentation there. Or just use 
this link, https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/SSLTBW_3.1.0/pdf/ieab600_v3r1.pdf

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get&search=markjac...@protonmail.com


On Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 at 7:38 PM, Phil Smith III  wrote:

> I just spent far longer Googling than I think I should have NOT finding 
> documentation on the format of a JOB card. Surely this exists.?
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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