Re: [IceHorses] an awful pic

[Robyn Schulze]

What gets me is how such a dignified, beautiful creature can be made to look
so incredibly ridiculous. BL is not allowed in Colorado, altho I'm sure the
problems still exist w/ flat shod.  But once at a big horse expo there was a
guy riding a Saddlebred in a breed demo--this horse had lo-o-ong toes, big
shoes and a ridiculous high-stepping way of going, w/ the rider sitting way
back on the horse's butt...and people were *laughing* at this guy, it looked
so pathetic.

Robyn

Re: [IceHorses] OT-southern living

[Wanda Lauscher]

On 30/04/07, Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well here it is you yankees, especially Wanda, the magnolia in my
> pasture is blooming :)  "As God is MAH witnuss I swaYURE I will NEVAH
> go hongry again, NEVAH!"  (Scarlet in Gone with the wind)
> Janice

Ha!

Janice, you're such a liar.  First you tell us Nasi is a dun and now
you have magnolias blooming...

Wanda

[IceHorses] Re: Kathy Sdao's behavior chain clinic

[Roo Grubis]

--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Roo, would you happen to be able to get some pictures (better yet, some 
> video) of your horse retrieving?

Hmm.  It was a mare (Morgan) I briefly had on loan several years ago.  I might 
have a couple 
of photos of her with her toy (squeaky rubber "jack"-shaped dog toy).  I'll 
have to look.

Or I could just teach Varði...

/Roo

Re: [IceHorses] weird chest

[Raven]

>> I took a photo at the walking horse show of a big lick horse that has
the weirdest chest I have ever seen.

Yes...I've seen this before, it was called a Pigeon Chest.(??) Raven

Re: [IceHorses] an awful pic

[Wanda Lauscher]

On 30/04/07, Raven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OMGAWD  This brings tears to my eyes. Just look at that
> UNNATURAL hoof, how it's flipping UP! That poor horse.

And this is why I squawk about ice tolts and tight nosebands, too
small saddles, harsh bits, weighted shoes or shoeing to balance a
gait

Strong arming, cantle sitting, water skiing

Oh and my favorite.tolt training.

We ain't very clean either...

Wanda

[IceHorses] Breeder Alert - Manno Pro UniMilk RECALL

[Raven]

Manno Pro Puppy Milk Replacers and Weaning Formula Recall

For more info visit  http://www.mannapro.com/Then click on "Click
Here for Information on UniMilk" to see the recall lot numbers.
Located top of page in the center.

Permission to cross post.

Raven
Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies
Huginn, the American Ice Pony
Dixie Chic, the Barn Goddess

Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.

Re: [IceHorses] an awful pic

[Raven]

OMGAWD  This brings tears to my eyes. Just look at that
UNNATURAL hoof, how it's flipping UP! That poor horse.

Janice...how could you sit there without beating the hell of those
riders/trainers? I would have gotten myself into deep crap.  I can not
beleive this is still allowed. How very sad. Raven

RE: [IceHorses] herd babysitters

[Karen Thomas]

>>> All the other horses were at the fence on alert, but Tivar was on alert
standing so close to Nasi and then when Fox whirled and took off galloping
the fence in alarm, Tivar bent and tapped nasi with his nose and Nasi
instantly got up.  So it was like Tivar waited til the last second and then
woke him.  horses are so cool just to watch!

That's for sure - I love watching the herd behaviors.  Good for Uncle Tivar.
The mature horses may get grumpy with the young ones sometimes, but when it
comes down to it, they do watch after the young ones.

Karen Thomas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [IceHorses] FW: cryptorchidism

[Judy Ryder]

> There have been no studies about the prevalence of cryptorchidism in the
> Icelandic horse but I agree it seems to be quite common.


I wonder if Iceland has a definitive definition of cryptorchid, and if there is 
a plan to recognize it and to breed it out.


Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com 

Re: [IceHorses] Re: Kathy Sdao's behavior chain clinic

[Judy Ryder]

>>>get my dog training friends to come work with a pony or two.  I
> truly didn't become fluent at teaching a directed retrieve to class dogs 
> until after I taught one
> to a horse.

Roo, would you happen to be able to get some pictures (better yet, some 
video) of your horse retrieving?

Thanks!


Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com 

RE: [IceHorses] GB update.

[Karen Thomas]

 But here he is, nice and glowy from all the soy oil I have been giving
to try and fatten him...

You're giving him a great life, Janice.

Karen Thomas, NC

Re: [IceHorses] gaited mules

[Virginia Tupper]

On 4/30/07, Lorraine Voog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That is what I want next.  I did the Grand Canyon.
> Now I love mules.


Why?  Are they different than horses?
V

Re: [IceHorses] GB update.

[Virginia Tupper]

On 4/30/07, Pat Grimmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> WOW Janice!!!
>
>  He really looks SO much better!
>


He's handsome!
V

RE: [IceHorses] TWH show video

[Karen Thomas]

>>> Truly repulsive. At least the first one was. I couldn't bring myself to
watch the second one.


Yes, but the link she posted on the other topic,
http://www.kentucky.com/211/story/50280.html , was really cool.  It's so
great to see the other gaited activities gaining momentum as the BL stuff
fades.

Karen Thomas
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [IceHorses] TWH show video

[Robyn Schulze]

Truly repulsive. At least the first one was. I couldn't bring myself to
watch the second one.

Robyn

[IceHorses] gaited news

[Janice McDonald]

hey, here is something cool to do with our gaited horses!

http://www.kentucky.com/211/story/50280.html

janice

-- 
yipie tie yie yo

[IceHorses] Re: Kathy Sdao's behavior chain clinic

[Roo Grubis]

--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Judy Ryder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My primary interest in training
> is horses, but I will say it's been very helpful to really delve into
> training for more than one species.  It helps me separate the general
> rules of training from the species-specific information.

YES!!!  I'm always trying to get my dog training friends to come work with a 
pony or two.  I 
truly didn't become fluent at teaching a directed retrieve to class dogs until 
after I taught one 
to a horse.  Working with more than one species (anything with a brain, 
thanks!) really helps 
with working with the others.  (Even *people*.  ;)   )

/Roo

[IceHorses] TWH show video

[Janice McDonald]

I uploaded two videos I took at the horse show onto Youtube if anyone
wants to see them click here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_ORW_wiUP8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIlu3Z0yQCk


janice

-- 
yipie tie yie yo

Re: [IceHorses] worse than PETA

[Lorraine Voog]

> I am worse than any PETA person.  



That sounds like something that would happen to me. 
You have the most interesting storys.

 Happy Southwestern Trails

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [IceHorses] Another outdoor photo

[Janice McDonald]

oooh that is beautiful, and so dressagy~
Janice

-- 
yipie tie yie yo

Re: [IceHorses] gaited mules

[Lorraine Voog]

--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> they had a nice gaited mule class at the walking
> horse show.  They
> were flat  shod and gaiting beautifully i thought!
> Janice
> 

That is what I want next.  I did the Grand Canyon. 
Now I love mules.  

 Happy Southwestern Trails

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [IceHorses] GB update.

[Pat Grimmer]

WOW Janice!!!

  He really looks SO much better!

Pat G., in MN

[IceHorses] herd babysitters

[Janice McDonald]

Tivar did the sweetest thing last nite.
Curly ray brayed in the night, and thats always a signal something is out
there, and I go out, it was very bright moonlight.  I dont know what
critter was out there but all the horses were standing lined up at the
fence staring out at the moonlit field, maybe a coyote or deer or
something.  and little Noss, sleepy head, herd baby, he is just laying
down.  I think honestly he leads such a charmed life he could care
less if a mountain lion walked up.  but there he is laying down and
Tivar is standing over him.  All the other horses were at the fence on
alert, but Tivar was on alert standing so close to Nasi and then when
Fox whirled and took off galloping the fence in alarm, Tivar bent and
tapped nasi with his nose and Nasi instantly got up.  So it was like
Tivar waited til the last second and then woke him.  horses are so
cool just to watch!
Janice


-- 
yipie tie yie yo

[IceHorses] worse than PETA

[Janice McDonald]

I am worse than any PETA person.  On the way to the horse show I saw a
dog I thought had been hit by a car.  i immediately did a u turn and
went back to make sure he was ok.  he was sitting in the tall grass
licking himself.  I got my car stuck to the hilt, bottomed totally
out, my little skateboard toyota.  When I get out to try and push the
car the dog comes at me and tries to bite me so I have to sit in the
hot car wondering what to do.  my husband is fifty miles away at the
horse show.  I cant think of anyone to call but a tow truck which
would be like 200 bucks.  So then a young redneck sees me and whips in
to the rescue.  He has a logging chain and everything all hooked up to
my car.  he had to lay on his belly and dig at the mud and sand with
his hands to get under my bottomed out car.  Just as he is grtting in
his truck to pull me out and older redneck man whips in, and hollers
"WHOA!  If you pull her out that way you will bust the whole bumper
off the back of her car!"  so he gets out and helps me out.  I was so
happy!  You can say what you want about these redneck men by they will
sure take care of a person in distress!
Janice

-- 
yipie tie yie yo

Re: [IceHorses] Dorrance

[Janice McDonald]

he seemed to really stress watching closely and stopping the behavior
BEFORE the horse did it.  which is very hard to do isnt it.  Makes you
concentrate on actually watching them closely and measuring intent.
janice
-- 
yipie tie yie yo

Re: [IceHorses] Dorrance

[Janice McDonald]

he did a thing that surprised me.  The horse was a biting horse.  and
he positioned his crop and would pretend to try and tighten the girth
and when the horse would go to bite him he would "run into" Bills crop
and get a fairly healthy pop out of it.  Bill would say "see like
this, make it look like he did it to himself" and then when the horse
stopped attempting to bite him he said "see?  Didn't have to kill him"
 haha.  another thing he did that was very subtle and you dont see
anyone else do, if the horse gave him trouble, he would just leave
that for the time being and go work on another area.  Like the horse
wouldnt lift his feet.  So he'd work on a foot and if the horse
danced, he'd go back to the foot he'd had some success on.  You could
see a calmness come over the horse...  just seems to show in my
opinion that so much of what horses do is a power struggle and we
shouldnt even get into it with them!
Janice
-- 
yipie tie yie yo

[IceHorses] Re: weird chest

[Janice McDonald]

in the last pic of nasi, haha, look in the background and see the
mighty stallion Gallant Boy with his little evil friend.  that just
cracks me up that they are friends!  what an odd couple, and both
intact males...
janice--
yipie tie yie yo

[IceHorses] G'bye for a while!

[Stephanie Caldwell]

I'm going no mail for a while. This coming weekend I'm moving and
won't get my internet hooked up until next month. I'm also house
sitting alot this year, working 2 jobs (around 70 - 80 hours a week),
and teaching some lessons. Not to mention trying to learn to ballroom
dance, swing dance, and going out some with friends.

I don't check my mail consistently anymore, but if you want to get in
touch with me email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll be keeping that
account active.

Thanks for being such a great group, I really appreciate y'all!

Steph

-- 
"Brutality begins where skill ends."
"Correctly understood, work at the lunge line is indispensable for
rider and horse from the very beginning through the highest levels."
Von Niendorff

[IceHorses] Re: Tom Dorrance/Equine Nation

[kim morton]

--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Nancy  Sturm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Well, I got a little info.  Tom Dorrance is featured in episode 8 
of Equestrian Nation, which airs in Oregon at 4:00 am on Sunday 
mornings, always a prime time spot.
> 
> Anyone have an idea which episode Equestrian Nation is currently 
airing?
> 
> Nancy
>

Here is a link to a schedule:

http://www.equestriannation.tv/tv_sc.htm

I'm not getting RFDTV at the moment, it seems you can order a disc 
of the show from them. Will someone try to watch it and tell us if 
you think it would be worth ordering?


Kim

[IceHorses] Kathy Sdao's behavior chain clinic

[Judy Ryder]

By May of the ClickRyder list:

Hi, everyone

I just came back from the weekend at a 2-day Kathy Sdao's "Cues and
Behavior Chains" seminar, and it was great!  It was two 8-hour days
going through the tiniest details of adding a behavior, naming it
(cues), adduction, chaining, naming chains, and fading cues.  My head
is so full of new information!

This was a weekend geared towards dog people, and we were allowed to
bring our own (non-beginner) dogs.  My primary interest in training
is horses, but I will say it's been very helpful to really delve into
training for more than one species.  It helps me separate the general
rules of training from the species-specific information.  And because
I have to look at why ___ is working for a horse and not a dog, I'm
forced to really think about the psychology of the animal.  Sometimes
we take for granted a dog (or horse or whatever) will do X if we do
Y.

Kathy did an excellent job of breaking it down to its simplest
form.   Once you understand all the little rules, then tackling
things such as chains and Premack and keep going signals don't seem
to confusing after all.

One amazing example of a behavior chain was a video she showed of a
parrot.  He was cued and would have a matching answer --- a good 30
or so cues in a row before he got his final reinforcement!
http://animal.discovery.com/fansites/petstar/videogallery/season3/ep30
9_winner.html

or:  http://tinyurl.com/b7a7p

I'm all excited thinking how I can chain my animals' existing
behaviors into a chain.  And the converse of this is: now that I
understand how chains are formed, I can train the next complicated
behavior by breaking it down into tiny little behaviors and then
chaining them.   Everyone I've talked to seems to think the big
behavior will be much cleaner and stronger if you break it into tiny
bits and get each bit fluent before trying to combine them.   It also
answers questions on how to repair damaged complex behaviors.

We touched on poisoned cues including the video of the dog taught to
come two ways, one with only +R and the other with some +R and a
little leash pulls.  In the video the difference is amazing in the
dog's reaction to the two different cues.   I got home and tried to
find the studies on it.  Does anyone have a link or a scientific
paper that demonstrates the dangers of poison cues?

In short, if you're serious about understanding training better, not
only is the Expo a great but so are clinics the Expo faculty put on
throughout the year.  Kathy has another clinic coming up this summer
on dealing with extremely aggressive dogs.  Has anyone done a US
clinic focusing on extreme problem horses?   I wish there were more
+R horse training clinics in general.   There is such a vast wealth
of information out there. There's so much to learn.  The horse world
could definitely benefit from this more thoughtful approach.

I've got to hand it to this method of training.  I hate to call
it "clicker training" because it's so much more than just a
clicker!   It's the first training approach I've found (for dogs or
horses) that explains WHY things work.  I'm tired of methods that are
like "if you yank the lead, the animal will follow".   Is that even
training if you're just dragging the animal behind you?   :-)

When I got home, I visited a horse friend. We talked about the
mistakes some make with taking shortcuts.  We got to talking about
the  "Colt Starting Challenge".  Have you seen this?
http://www.roadtothehorse.com/

There is a competition between several big-name trainers once a
year.  Each trainer is given an unhandled colt and they work the
young horse all day.  At the end of the day (or whatever short period
of time), each has to hop on the horse and show how well broke he
is.  Someone judges which colt looks to be the best trained and the
big-name trainer leaves with bragging rights and cash.

The whole idea is silly.  It reduces training to: if you can sit on
the horse without being bucked off, he's 'broke'.   It gives owners
the idea if the find the right trainer, their colt can be turned into
a nice riding horse in just a few weeks.  Isn't this the opposite of
good training?

I look forward to your thoughts or comments.

Sincerely,
May 
Snyder



Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com 

[IceHorses] Tom Dorrance/Equine Nation

[Nancy Sturm]

Well, I got a little info.  Tom Dorrance is featured in episode 8 of Equestrian 
Nation, which airs in Oregon at 4:00 am on Sunday mornings, always a prime time 
spot.

Anyone have an idea which episode Equestrian Nation is currently airing?

Nancy

Re: [IceHorses] Re: Gat / communication

[Judy Ryder]

> "How can you tell he's stressed?"  While I can certainly run down the 
> physical signals, it's
> extraordinarily difficult to get folks to see the really subtle 
> differences, especially when it's
> not just a matter of, say, a wagging tail in a dog being friendly or a 
> wagging tail being part
> of an aggressive response.

I like this, Roo!

Very good point.

Similarly, the other day a gal asked me about a horse who had flinched when 
she raised her hand near his head.  This could be a nervous, sensitive 
horse; but yet it could also have been an oh-I-didn't-see-you-there normal 
reaction.

I guess it would depend on the context, and other behaviors.


Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com

[IceHorses] Dorrance

[Nancy Sturm]

If anyone has this info, I'd sure like to watch the video.

I think in his book, Tom Dorrance had difficulty putting into words what, for 
him, was instinctive.  The main thing I got from reading him was that I should 
just spend even more time observing my horses and learning from what I see.

The man had an incredible gift that probably can't be taught.

Nancy

[IceHorses] FW: cryptorchidism

[Karen Thomas]

I wrote to the vet at Holar in Iceland and asked about any studies that
might have been done cryptorchidism.  Here is her reply.

-Original Message-
From: Sigríður Björnsdóttir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 2:36 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: cryptorchidism

Hi Karen.
There have been no studies about the prevalence of cryptorchidism in the
Icelandic horse but I agree it seems to be quite common.
All the best.
Sigridur Björnsdóttir
Veterinary Officer for horse diseases
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

[IceHorses] Sheath Cleaning

[Judy Ryder]

Is it that time again?

http://iceryder.net/sheath.html


Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com 

Re: [IceHorses] dorrance

[Janice McDonald]

On 4/29/07, Ann Cassidy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There is a RFDTV show this week that has a training session with Bill
> > Dorrance.  Or is it Tom, the old man.  its good.
>
>
> When is it? I looked at this weeks schedule but could not find it.
>
> Ann
>

I am not sure.  I'm sorry!  Its on "Equestrian Nation".  Maybe info on
the website for rfdtv?  It is an old session when he was alive and its
just very good.  He says "the goal you want to strive for is where
your horse wants to be with you or have you on its back."  That was
cool.  But he had two horses, one wouldnt respond to reins and one
wouldnt pick up its feet.  Dorrance is always so zen to me, does
things with such nuance, it was hard to see what he saw when he would
direct the man with his horse it was so subtle.  But it was about
seeing the subtle signs of willingness.
Janice--
yipie tie yie yo

[IceHorses] Saddle Fitting

[Judy Ryder]

 "An Officer's Notes" by Captain R.M. Parker (U.S. Cavalry), published in 
1917:

Fitting The Saddle

There are six axioms in saddle fitting:

(a) The withers must not be pinched or pressed upon

(b) The central line of the back must have no pressure put upon it

(c) The shoulder blades must have full and unhampered movement

(d) The loins must not carry weight

(e) The weight must be put upon the ribs through the medium of the muscles 
covering them

(f) The weight must be evenly distributed over a surface which extends from 
the play of the shoulders to the last true rib.

___

Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com 

Re: [IceHorses] Re: First Cutting

[Laree Shulman]

  Had to take what I could findI'm always asking people
where they get their hay and finally found this guy who trucks in clean
hay.




I have a connection in Ohio and could get a truckload of really nice hay if
anyone wants to go in together to get a full semi load - I haven't checked
into prices yet but would do that if there was serious interest - email me
off-list if you want me to check into it.

Laree