[IceHorses] Re: short neck
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> Approximately when was it posted? > > Oh, I don't know! Maybe 2-3 years ago? > > > Karen Thomas, NC > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > How about this one: http://www.hest.is/images/stories/Stallions/Hrannar_stand_1.jpg only 8.5 but I think a nice neck. Jasmin
Re: [IceHorses] Re: short neck
> I haven't found a 10 for neck ind Worldfengur. Best I can offer is 9.5 > > www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0028212.jpg > > www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0033542.jpg Thanks, Jasmin. The chesnut with the flaxen mane seems to have such large front feet. Neither of these horses have much length to their necks; what do you think? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] A Runaway
This young horse probably doesn't like having his mouth attached so tightly to his tail: http://iceryder.net/yearlingescape.html Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] Re: short neck
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> Approximately when was it posted? > > Oh, I don't know! Maybe 2-3 years ago? > > > Karen Thomas, NC > [EMAIL PROTECTED] I haven't found a 10 for neck ind Worldfengur. Best I can offer is 9.5 www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0028212.jpg www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0033542.jpg Jasmin
Re: [IceHorses] Andi, Icelandic Horse, For Sale
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sire: Hrafnson from Wiesenhof Dam: Ivory from Saga > California > Different Andi. Andi seems to be a popular name for palomino's, tho. It means spirit or ghost, and it's English sounding - well if pronounced the American way. I work with an Icelandic lady, and she says the proper pronouncination is: ahn-de (long e). But I say Andy! He is cute, but my Andi is cuter! Susan in NV Happy High Desert Trails Susan in NV Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
Re: [IceHorses] Andi, Icelandic Horse, For Sale
>> http://iceryder.net/andi.html >> > My Andi has an older full brother by the same name - > what is this horse's breeding?? Sire: Hrafnson from Wiesenhof Dam: Ivory from Saga California DSire: Snaefaxi from Hredavatnskalli DDam: Leira from Thoronupur SSire: Hrafn von Kroggolfsstadir SDam: Gletta Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Andi, Icelandic Horse, For Sale
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's a palomino Icelandic Horse gelding for sale: > > http://iceryder.net/andi.html > My Andi has an older full brother by the same name - what is this horse's breeding?? Susan in NV Happy High Desert Trails Susan in NV Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/
Re: [IceHorses] Overloaded Rig
>> I will never again feel that I have over-packed because I brought two pairs of boots. can you imagine! what the heck is all the crap they are hauling around? HAHA! i'm surprised they haven't been pulled over the a state trooper. raven
[IceHorses] Andi, Icelandic Horse, For Sale
Here's a palomino Icelandic Horse gelding for sale: http://iceryder.net/andi.html Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Overloaded Rig
I will never again feel that I have over-packed because I brought two pairs of boots. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] pic from today
Wanda...how old is your daughter. She's cute. <;] Raven
Re: [IceHorses] Single Trait Breeding / Trait Over-Selection
Fascinating reading, but of course Temple Grandin is herself a fascinating person. I first became interested in her writing becase she is both brilliant and autistic. Our adopted son, Arontae, is multi-handicapped, but may be affected by autism as much as any of his other "issues". Dr. Grandin is a wonderful example of what a person can achieve even with a diagnosis that is considered a "disability". Nancy
[IceHorses] Overloaded Rig
WOW! Don't over pack your RV! http://www.rv.net/forum/Index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/19787242.cfm Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn, the American Ice Pony Dixie Chick, the Barn Goddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
[IceHorses] Mark Rashid Clinic Report
By Jen: Been digesting my recent Mark Rashid 'experience'..WOW is all I have to say. Really its pretty hard to express the profound impact he has had on my thinking and on my horsemanship 'path'... Some notes: "Consistency creates dependability, which creates trust, which creates peace"...this was the theme for the weekend. Mark assessed each rider and horse. Where there were trust issues, he went right to the basics of being consistent in maintaining personal space, using body language and providing more information to the horse. It was amazing for me to see how I let things slide...little things like allowing my horse to drift or mosey into my spacewithout consistently setting a boundary and maintaining it dilligently. It makes a difference to our horses..consistency shows them we can be dependable. In regard to training a young or green horse. I brought my baby Belgian up to Mark, so I could learn the basics of 'ground driving' and get a sense for my plan over the next 6 months with Peanut. On the first day, he taught me how to be dependablethe starting point for any relationship with a horse. This simply entailed allowing Peanut to stand, outside my space quietly. He's allowed to look around at distractions but he should be able to do this without moving his feet. This literally took 60 seconds to accomplish...babies are so smart...and so looking for a leader! Next, Mark explained that babies have no context for 'learning' outside the herd, so our first job is to get across the idea that he can turn over some of his decision making to me...this is where being consistent and dependable are really important. To start this, Mark showed me some simple but non traditional lunging techniques. With a long line, I ask Peanut to move out on the circle. I move and he moves. Since we are preparing for driving, I stay back behind the drive line. I ask him to slow down by walking slower, stop by stopping, speed up by walking faster. Of course in the beginnning there was alot of 'reinforcing my aids' with a swinging rope or turning his nose with the lead. It was so neatyou could see Peanut had no clue what was happening at first. Then you could see him clueing in to Mark and then me, like...'hmmm, am I supposed to be doing something? Are you talking to me? Once that got reasonably reproducible, we added some rope work around the legs. You've all seen Pat and linda do this...take the rope around the flank and turn your horse around. We did alot of this and for the most part, Peanut was not bothered by the rope, but he did get quite sticky on the turn around. Mark had me 'do what it takes' to get him around in stead of waiting for him to figure it out. He explained that we are teaching a pattern and we want to be particular about how that pattern looks. Lightness and softness will be installed after the pattern is there. So although you always offer the lightest aid, you must be prepared to provide any and all the information required to get the pattern done, until the horse is engaged in the pattern. I think this was the biggest thing I learned about youngsters. Don't let them guess about what you are triing to accomplish...SPELL IT OUT in big letters! Make it obvious what the right thing to do is. Softness comes when the horse trusts the process and feels confident in his correctness. Once this confidence is in place, the sky is the limit in regard to training. Learning happens in horses like links in a chain. One piece links to the next. In this way they build their repetoire of learned behaviors. These links also include stuff we don't mean to teach, but allow the horse to learn by being inconsistent. So its not only important to make sure your lessons follow a logical progression, so your horse can link them together confidently, but also to be aware of unwanted behavior and intervene before that 'link' gets inserted into the chain. Probably the highlight of the weekend was watching the progress Tim is making with his mustang, Tico. He is ground driving as well, though much, much further along in regard the lightness and softness. It was beautiful, like a dance. You can really see the trust this horse has for Tim and real peace is just around the corner for this troubled horse. At one point on the last day, Tim tied Tico to a tree to participate in a group simulation. Tico got alittle troubled with the line and managed to untie himself, then got turned around in some brush. As soon as Tim appeared, he immediately came to him for direction. This horse is a real 'thinker' and to watch him turn over his decision making to Tim is truly special. Peanut was ground driving by the second day with Mark primarily (his 4th 'link'). I worked on my rope skills with Manny later that day and was driving Peanut myself with fair confidence on the third day. I now have a plan for how this pattern will evolv
Re: [IceHorses] somebody stop me
stinker. raven
Re: [IceHorses] Single Trait Breeding / Trait Over-Selection
> The Dangers of Trait Over-Selection > > Breeding for specific traits may trigger unwanted, even dangerous, genetic > side effects. > > By Temple Grandin Great article Judy--thanks! Dr. Grandin has some great stuff to say. Robyn
Re: [IceHorses] OT-Brag
Reno has been a bit of a project horse for Nancy. He came to her with little training, very ewe necked and underweight, and very sensitive. But he has a good mind and heart, and with consistency and perseverance, he has blossomed. I am proud of them both! BEAUTIFUL!!! Lovely horse, lovely rider, great round! You SHOULD be proud! Robyn
Re: [IceHorses] OT-Brag
>From: Virginia Tupper > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whP3feZPUhQ Wow! They sure made that look easy! Wonderful! V Hi Virginia, I know! I am only a little jealous! Actually, I am more proud than anything! I'm sure your Alex will be doing similar stuff in a few years! Mary Sand Lake, NY
Re: [IceHorses] OT-Brag
>From: Nancy Sturm >Congratulations to Nancy and Reno. She did a very pretty job of >riding >under what looks like less-than-ideal conditions. Thanks, Nancy. A torrential downpour held up the class for about 20 minutes. Thankfully, it held off for the dressage and cross country classes, which were earlier in the day. It appeared very quickly and left just as quickly. It's been a very strange weather year! Mary Sand Lake, NY
RE: [IceHorses] hauling miss horsie-lol
>>>Hey Karen, Thanks for the info on Terry. He loves you. He is getting me an estimate. Should I be scared? Ha Ha. Lorraine Ha! I believe Terry thinks of me as his liberator. I first contacted him about bringing home Maja and Runa. I e-mailed for a quote after hearing good references - VERY good references. He gave me a quote, but said the timing was dependent on when he could get time off from work - at that time he was only hauling in his spare time. An hour or so later, I got another e-mail from him, with a definite date. It seemed he was having a bad day at worked and decided to take early retirement and do hauling and training full time! He was so close to making that decision, and he decided to give me credit. So, I was his very first contract as a full-time hauler. He added Anna's Skutla on with my girls, so he had two list member's horses on that load. And, since I had the hauler horror story from hell, I've been pretty vocal about passing on his name. He's the best and believe me, I KNOW what a bad hauler is! Karen Thomas, NC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IceHorses] Driving Miss Tosca
That's the four year old and she is a little tank. I'm sort of hoping the three year old ends up somewhere in the middle, a little more substantial than she is now, but so stocky as Tosca . I've started separating them to feed them. They get along fine, but I think Tosca may be getting more than her share - and neither one of them is getting all that much. My TWH, on the other hand, is being fed like we are trying to get him ready for market (well, maybe not exactly) and he's very lean. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] Re: short neck
>>> Approximately when was it posted? Oh, I don't know! Maybe 2-3 years ago? Karen Thomas, NC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IceHorses] 1/3 of their Wgt
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: b > > >> One young lady from Iceland is currently writing to me with > the > > >> impression that the Icelandics are the strongest horses in the > world > > >> because Monty Roberts said to her "The Icelandic horse is very > small, but > > >> he is so strong". > > > > > well. quantify that. stronger than what? Stonger than a > chihuahua? An ox? a similarly sized pony? a similarly sized > horse? > the smell of a used sock after a long ride? than a sock you have > accidentally wet while draining the baby geese's wading pool? Nasi > is > stong, but probably only 1/2 as strong as Tivar. And Tivar is very > strong, probably as Strong as jaspar but not as strong as fox. > tivar > is ten times stronger than Gallant Boy, who is probably not as > strong > as Monty Roberts or even Linda Parelli. That remark is sort of a > show > bizzy make everybody happy BS remark probably... > janice > -- > yipie tie yie yo > All he said was they are very small, but are so strong. Whats wrong with that. Its true. To a lot of the american public, BIG is Strong.not small. At least he sounds like he respects them as a horse..all he said was so strong, he did not compare...they are strong. Do we want people to say they are small and weak horses? I would be a little miffed about that. We just helped our friend sell one of her geldings.to a friend/client who has been a pro polo player, riden qtr horses on ranches, and now rides a big and tall TB gelding who is old (17...) We said we know of a horse that you will love. He was concerned about the Icelandic size...so we said well this one is on the large side for an Icelandic, he is very red and nicely trainedwe really think you will enjoy riding him. Well he takes the 3 hour drive to our side of the island (he has never been over her) he steps out of his truck and sees Drifonde.well I could see he was disapointedthe horse was so small how will he ever carry him very well? Well after his 1 hour trail ride, he came back with a glow on his face, Wow! He is a small horse with a Big engine. He is buying him this week.he got it right away, the horse is small by most peoples standards, but he was strong, willing, balanced, could do his natural gait.he has watched the videos that we give out to prospective buyers about 4 times already and has looked the the picture book that a lot of you have slammed here. Its a great book filled with so many wonderful photos.a book of dreaming I call it. I like to find photos of my mares and Stallions Sires, I have a lot of fun with it. This guy has also rode TWH and MFT, and never had that response and they were much bigger horses...he got the Icelandic thing right away. Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] no more i promise!
On 6/5/07, Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > you go to youtube.com and upload your video and then click "audioswap" > or put audioswap in the search box and it will walk you thru selecting > songs etc. its kinda fun cause you get to watch it with music and if > you dont like it click another song... Thanks! V
Re: [IceHorses] OT-Brag
On 6/5/07, Mary Arena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here is some video of her stadium jumping course: > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whP3feZPUhQ Wow! They sure made that look easy! Wonderful! V
Re: [IceHorses] Driving Miss Tosca
> Here's a photo of last evening's ground driving session with Tosca. Nice! She looks pretty sturdy for a three-year-old. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Re: short neck
Judy, do you remember the picture someone sent once of a horse that had been > awarded a "10" for a neck at an evaluation? I thought I'd saved that > picture, but I can't find it anywhere. I think it was a chestnut...? I don't recall! Approximately when was it posted? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] OT-Brag
Congratulations to Nancy and Reno. She did a very pretty job of riding under what looks like less-than-ideal conditions. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] OT-Brag
>From: Judy Ryder >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whP3feZPUhQ >Gosh, how clean was that!! Wonderful! Thanks, Judy! They've come a long way! He used to really get strong and sometimes rush his fences, but he's really calmed down a lot. He did a bit of galloping on the cross country portion, but Nancy has learned to just go with him when he needs to move out, and he has learned to slow his gait when she really needs him to. >Does she clicker train him? Yes. He loves clicker training. They have developed a wonderful bond of trust. Mary Sand Lake, NY
[IceHorses] Charm and the Piano OutTakes
Janice asked me to make a video of Charm playing piano. I haven't asked her to do that very much, so I thought we'd have a practice session before making a video. Here's an out take from the session: http://iceryder.net/videocharmpianoouttakes.html Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] OT-Brag
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whP3feZPUhQ Gosh, how clean was that!! Wonderful! Does she clicker train him? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Re: short neck
>>> I'm looking for the "good neck photo", one that is not ewed, on an Icelandic; the neck that you said has the top muscles more developed than the under muscles. Judy, do you remember the picture someone sent once of a horse that had been awarded a "10" for a neck at an evaluation? I thought I'd saved that picture, but I can't find it anywhere. I think it was a chestnut...? Karen Thomas, NC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[IceHorses] OT-Brag
My daughter competed on her OTTB, Reno, in the Pre-Novice division mini-event held at North Wind Farm in Walkill, NY on Sunday. She was first in her dressage test with a 69% and went clean in the cross country and stadium jumping divisions, winning the event overall! Here is some video of her stadium jumping course: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whP3feZPUhQ There was a torrential downpour for about 20 minutes before the start of the start of the stadium jumping, and she was the first rider to go. Reno has been a bit of a project horse for Nancy. He came to her with little training, very ewe necked and underweight, and very sensitive. But he has a good mind and heart, and with consistency and perseverance, he has blossomed. I am proud of them both! Mary Sand Lake, NY
Re: [IceHorses] dont encourage me
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG984kzVTQo > > Perfect song for the clip! > > Is that road in their corral? Or on your property? that road is in the front, my driveway where the house is but it is all fenced. I let them out sometimes in it and they think they are FREE haha. They always act like nuts out there! Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Terry - Majo's Hauling
On 6/4/07, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's the gorgeous gray Icelandic gelding we had for a while, Kari. I > think that's Anna's Gloi in the trailer with him. > http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1298369337030063638aPqEwV Yes that's Gloi. He also hauled Skutla for me and made a very kind offer for a discount on hauling a new horse after I had lost Skutla. That kind offer really helped me emotionally to start thinking about another possible happy future instead of mourning for my lost future with Skutla. Still makes me cry. Anna
Re: [IceHorses] Driving Miss Tosca
I'm not sure. We have two. Tosca is Stephanie's and was bought to be a therapy horse. The other, Yrsa, is mine and is supposed to be the endurance possible. Yrsa is only three and seems small and is much less substantial than Tosca. She's also generally more energetic. While I can imagine myself riding the sturdy Tosca, I can't quite invision her going 25+ miles with that stocky body. I have a nice endurance horse, so we're just going to see which roles the girls fit into. I think either one will make a nice trail horse. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] no more i promise!
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuVzI3ROVRg > > > > That's perfect! > > How do you do that anyway? you go to youtube.com and upload your video and then click "audioswap" or put audioswap in the search box and it will walk you thru selecting songs etc. its kinda fun cause you get to watch it with music and if you dont like it click another song... I dont know how to load it with your own music tho! I wish youtube had more songs to choose from! Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] no more i promise!
On 6/5/07, Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ok ok last one i promise! but I even laughed at this one too hard... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuVzI3ROVRg > That's perfect! How do you do that anyway? V
Re: [IceHorses] somebody stop me
On 6/5/07, Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > this is so fun! My stonewall being a bad boy to music... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-tucbVF6-w > LOL! Funny! V
Re: [IceHorses] HA!
On 6/5/07, Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > oh my gosh I am so tech savvy! I figured how to do music on > youtube here is tivcam set to song... > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1hLqeWgN-Q Love it! V
Re: [IceHorses] what breed? - gaited pony in WI
He's very cute! Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn, the American Ice Pony Dixie Chick, the Barn Goddess Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
[IceHorses] hauling miss horsie-lol
Hey Karen, Thanks for the info on Terry. He loves you. He is getting me an estimate. Should I be scared? Ha Ha. Lorraine Happy Trails from Lori Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
[IceHorses] MI Little Celebration Show - Gaited Horses
FYI off another list: I wanted to let everyone know that there is a "B" show being held for Tennessee Walking Horses and Rocky Mountain Horses, June 15 and 16 in Mason Michigan at the Ingham County Fairgrounds Equestrian Center. More information at www.michiganlittlecelebration.com Thanks! Pat S Windy Acres www.windy-acres.com
Re: [IceHorses] somebody stop me
--- Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > this is so fun! My stonewall being a bad boy to > music... > Too cute. Lorraine Happy Trails from Lori ___ You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html
Re: [IceHorses] Re: short neck
>>>so there have been "good" necks a long time ago and there are still "bad" necks around nowadays. Thanks for the pictures, Jasmin. I'm looking for the "good neck photo", one that is not ewed, on an Icelandic; the neck that you said has the top muscles more developed than the under muscles. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Driving Miss Tosca
--- Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here's a photo of last evening's ground driving > session with Tosca. Nancy, is this the Icey you want to start doing endurance with? Susan in NV Happy High Desert Trails Susan in NV Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
[IceHorses] PNH Play Day
Don't forget about the special TOURNAMENT/PLAYDAY this Sat the 9th at EagleBear Farm Celebrating one of our own PNHer's 12th birthday! Tournaments/Games are always fun but you're not required to participate You can just come and play!! Prizes for all Tournament Participants!!! Start time 10am we'll go until ...??? break for potluck lunch and birthday cake! RSVP/Registration required [EMAIL PROTECTED] (919) 452-3023 EAGLEBEAR FARM - GRAHAM, NC 3925 L Lawrence Trail Graham NC 27253 (919) 452-3023 Lauren Cell
[IceHorses] Single Trait Breeding / Trait Over-Selection
The Dangers of Trait Over-Selection Breeding for specific traits may trigger unwanted, even dangerous, genetic side effects. By Temple Grandin IN THE future, some of the most serious health and welfare problems in horses may be caused by continued selection for certain appearance and performance traits Genetic traits are linked in complex ways and over-selecting for one trait causes corresponding changes in other traits. Over-selection for appearance traits, such as a lean, fine-boned conformation, extensive white coloration depigmented like an albino, and blue eyes are often associated with neurological defects and nervousness. Likewise, over-selection for performance traits in racehorses and cutting horses causes changes to occur in other traits, such as temperament. Single Trait Selection Breeders of dogs, pigs, and cattle know that over-selecting for a single trait can ruin the animal. There are countless examples in the medical literature on dogs with physical and behavioral problems caused by over selection for a single trait. For example, breathing problems in short-nosed breeds, such as Bulldogs or Pugs, are caused by over selection for a shortened nose. Pointer dogs with extreme nervousness are another example. Pointing ability and nervousness are genetically linked traits. Breeders have known for decades that a fine line exists between a good pointer and a nervous wreck. Horses also can suffer negative effects with over-selection for both physical and behavioral traits. White piebald patches in Paint Horses, conformation and jumping ability in Warmbloods, conformation and speed in Thoroughbred race horses, and cow-cutting ability in Quarter Horses are examples of single traits that, when selected to the extreme, can cause problems in other traits. Single-minded selection for rapid weight gain in cattle, pigs, and chickens has already caused serious health and welfare problems. Pigs selected for large amounts of lean meat are so nervous that they often have heart attacks and die during handling or transport. Cattle with double-muscle traits cannot birth normally and must undergo Caesarean sections, and chickens bred for rapid weight gain often develop abnormal behaviors, have weak legs, and peck other chickens. Horse breeders should be careful not to repeat the serious mistakes made with dogs and other animals. Genetic Traits Are Linked Genetic traits are linked in complex ways. Over-selecting animals for physical traits often causes changes in behavior. Likewise, over-selection for behavioral traits can cause corresponding changes in physical traits. Here is an example of changes caused by single trait selection. In the 1950s, a Russian geneticist named Belyaev began a long-term study of selection for tame behavior in foxes. The study was an attempt to domesticate the wild fox and make it behave like a domestic dog. By selecting and breeding the calmest fox pups from each litter with other gentle foxes, in 20 years Belyaev succeeded in turning wild foxes into tame, dog-like animals. In each generation, the selected foxes became tamer and tamer. But, the changes in behavior occurred simultaneously with changes in ear shape, tail position, and the appearance of a white muzzle, forehead blaze, and white shoulder hair. The white color pattern on the head is similar to many domestic animals. The dog- like foxes looked like Border Collies and would whine and wag their tails when people approached. Unfortunately, the pelts were of little value because few people wanted black and white fur hats. Although Belyaev found selection for tameness effective, many undesirable characteristics were associated with the tameness. The tame foxes shed during the wrong season, would breed at any time of the year, and the vixens developed neurological problems and began eating their pups. This study illustrates the complexity of genetic changes that can occur when single traits are selected to the extreme. Hair, Skin, and Eyes The fact that different domestic animals exhibit similar patterns of physical and behavioral changes has been observed for centuries. Most domestic animals have lost their seasonal pattern of reproduction. They also have changes in their neuroendocrine profiles, have increased fertility, and exhibit piebald white spotting of the hair. Scientists use the term piebald to refer to areas of pure white hair and pink skin underneath. In horses, this would include both overo and tobiano patterning. When looking at piebald patches, it's important to differentiate white hair and dark skin found in Arabian horses from white hair and pink skin found in true piebald animals such as Holstein cows and Paint Horses. Socks and blazes are examples of piebald spots in horses. Some animals with large piebald spots on the head and body may have neurological defects similar to the genetic defect known in humans as piebaldism. The piebald condition is linked to defects in both the visual system
Re: [IceHorses] dont encourage me
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG984kzVTQo Perfect song for the clip! Is that road in their corral? Or on your property? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] dont encourage me
ok last one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG984kzVTQo janice -- yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] Terry - Majo's Hauling
> > The owner of Majo Transportation. He does all his > hauling himself. He's > the one I sent you the link to. Duh. thanks. Lorraine LOL Happy Trails from Lori It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
Re: [IceHorses] HA!
Way cool! Nancy
[IceHorses] somebody stop me
this is so fun! My stonewall being a bad boy to music... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-tucbVF6-w Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] KY Jelly
I was at a party one time and an old man was smearing butter on crackers and eating them and after a while he looked at me and wrinkled his nose and whispered "this is the WORST cheese I ever ate in my life..." HAHAHAHA i still laugh about that! janice-- yipie tie yie yo
[IceHorses] no more i promise!
ok ok last one i promise! but I even laughed at this one too hard... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuVzI3ROVRg janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Helmets again--Tipperary
Sorry, Robyn, haven't been on line for a day or two - I had a little problem getting the chin strap adjusted at first but once I got it where I liked it - I have forgotten about it - I did remove the leather cover on the chin strap, though, for some reason that bothered me. I'm very happy with hte helmet thanks for the info Laree! :) R
Re: [IceHorses] Shipping a new horse-Karen
> just to say, the cost of gas has about doubled since '04, so horse > hauling has gotten a lot more expensive in the last few years. Yeah, that's true. Unfortunately I guess we've all gotten used to it now. Karen's hauler looks like a really good one! Robyn
Re: [IceHorses] KY Jelly
On 6/5/07, Wanda Lauscher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just a thought as I was doing sheath and udder cleaning last night > > I clean the girls with baby wipes. They really work great. > > Wanda > you need to put together a parts cleaning video :) with music :) Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] Terry - Majo's Hauling
>>> Cute horses. This may be stupid. who is Terry. I need more info. Lorraine The owner of Majo Transportation. He does all his hauling himself. He's the one I sent you the link to. Karen Thomas, NC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [IceHorses] KY Jelly
Sorry but every time I see this subject line, I think of the story (joke?) about the patient who's eating breakfast in the hospital when the doctor comes in for morning rounds. "How are you feeling this morning? Having a good breakfast?" "Yes, the breakfast isn't too bad for hospital food, but that Kentucky Jelly they left on my nightstand sure doesn't have much taste to it." Since I've heard true hospital stories all my life from having had a mother and four aunts who were RN's, I have a feeling this is probably a true story. Karen Thomas, NC [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IceHorses] Terry - Majo's Hauling
> Here's the gorgeous gray Icelandic gelding we had > for a while, Kari. I > think that's Anna's Gloi in the trailer with him. > Cute horses. This may be stupid. who is Terry. I need more info. Lorraine Happy Trails from Lori Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
Re: [IceHorses] saddle problems
--- Judy Ryder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From Karen S: > > Hi there... > This is what happens when you leaves icelandics > alone for a few minutes! He > was ponied up the trail and got bored waiting for > me! > Nice. Kind of hard to ride that way. That looks like a pretty area. Lorraine Happy Trails from Lori Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
Re: [IceHorses] saddle problems
HAHA what a hoot! and he is standing there so innocent Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Shipping a new horse-Karen
> > That seems really expensive. I know gas has gone up, > but I had my colt > shipped from Iowa to Colorado in '04 for $500, w/ > All-State Horse > Transportation. I've used them 2 times and they were > the greatest! > They took great care of my colt, even worked w/ him > w/ loading and Thanks for all the info. Lorraine Happy Trails from Lori ___ You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html
[IceHorses] HA!
oh my gosh I am so tech savvy! I figured how to do music on youtube here is tivcam set to song... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1hLqeWgN-Q its so fun! :) the possibilities are endless now! you guys are gonna be begging me to quit it haha. janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Shipping a new horse-Karen
On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 10:47:30PM -0600, Robyn Schulze wrote: > > I had a horse shipped from Las Vegas to Oregon by Northwest Horse > > Transportation Company 866-636-HAUL. I think Steve Kosterman makes the > > trip back and forth on a regular basis. I think it cost about $1000. > > That seems really expensive. I know gas has gone up, but I had my colt > shipped from Iowa to Colorado in '04 for $500, w/ All-State Horse just to say, the cost of gas has about doubled since '04, so horse hauling has gotten a lot more expensive in the last few years. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Shipping a new horse-Karen
> > Also had someone bring a Welsh cob weanling from > Washington to Oregon. > > Nancy > Thanks Nancy Happy Trails from Lori Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
Re: [IceHorses] Helmets again--Tipperary
Laree, you mentioned that you have a Tipperary. I just tried one on and like it very much, altho I had trouble w/ the chinstrap being too long and difficult to adjust. Did you have any problems w/ it? Sorry, Robyn, haven't been on line for a day or two - I had a little problem getting the chin strap adjusted at first but once I got it where I liked it - I have forgotten about it - I did remove the leather cover on the chin strap, though, for some reason that bothered me. I'm very happy with hte helmet -- Laree
[IceHorses] KY Jelly
Just a thought as I was doing sheath and udder cleaning last night I clean the girls with baby wipes. They really work great. Wanda
[IceHorses] Re: short neck
Hi Karin > Jasmin, I'm 100% serious here: I'm not really sure which of these horses > have "good" necks and which have "bad" ones. To be honest, none of those > necks look like they are ideal for dressage, if that's what you're talking > about. I didn't mean does examples as examples of perfect necks. I just wanted to show, that already in earlier days, there were necks, which were more refined (you have to consider, these are all stallions, so they have a thicker neck by hormones anyway). > But, if I were looking for a horse purely for > classical dressage, I wouldn't give any of these horses a second look, not> even close. They all look thick through the throatlatch to me. Obviously, though, Icelandic's are my favorite breed, so that's not what I'm looking for. maybe you got me wrong. I never said, I'm looking for a horse perfect for classical dressage, then other breeds would be my favourit for sure. I just mentioned a longer neck with enough freedem in the throatlatch (you gave me the word, thanks), has it easier to be on the reins, so i wouldn't go for an Orri's neck ;-) > > I'd never seen a picture of Ofeigur. He's my favorite of that bunch of > pictures, it is not Ofeigur fra Flugumyri, but fra Hvanneyri (grandfather of my Sörli) this is the Flugumyri Ofeigur: http://www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0004732.bmp product of strong linebreeding, os should I say inbreeding. > > BTW, I wouldn't begin to judge Orri's neck from that picture. It's taken at > an odd angle, and the way he's being ridden has no doubt seriously affected > his neck development - much like a human body-builder's neck will be quite > exaggerated and unnatural. Believe me, he has a short, thick neck. I saw him in natural, unridden and not being ridden for years probably in 2000. And from what he inherits to his offsprings, it can not only be a matter of training. In fact people say, his head sits on his shoulder. He compensates this a lot, as the neck is very high set. some of his offsprings: www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0024062.jpg www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0035872.jpg www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0039792.jpg www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0031632.jpg www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0028572.jpg ww.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0029122.jpg and I could go for a long time like that. Nevertheless, they don't get bad marks, as the neck usually is high set and they have a good sloping shoulder, which is one mark. Jasmin
Re: [IceHorses] Sensation Hybrid
Robyn Schulze wrote: > > I bought mine from Kaaren, and was very happy w/ the service--she is > very concerned about her customers' satisfaction. There is another > midwest dealer that I worked with re: my Bob Marshall. This person > also sells Sensations and I would NOT recommend her at all! Customer > service was nonexistent, she was very difficult to get hold of, > misordered the saddle and then wouldn't take responsibility for it. > Email me directly if you want a name--I don't want to broadcast it--or > just go w/ Kaaren, b/c you won't go wrong w/ her. > Kaaren is great to work with and very knowledgeable. She has also developed a Skito pad that works very well with Icelandics and possibly other low-withered horses (Kaaren would know best).She is responds rights away and can help you with all your saddle fit questions. Trish
RE: [IceHorses] Re: short neck
>>> so there have been "good" necks a long time ago and there are still "bad" necks around nowadays. Boy, Thattur had an odd ewe neck, didn't he? Jasmin, I'm 100% serious here: I'm not really sure which of these horses have "good" necks and which have "bad" ones. To be honest, none of those necks look like they are ideal for dressage, if that's what you're talking about. (I remember you mentioning horses being able to easily bend at the poll in an earlier e-mail in this thread.) I simply don't see Icelandic's as having "nice" necks from the classical conformation definition. It doesn't bother me - I don't think necks are so terribly important in what I'm looking for in a horse. But, if I were looking for a horse purely for classical dressage, I wouldn't give any of these horses a second look, not even close. They all look thick through the throatlatch to me. Obviously, though, Icelandic's are my favorite breed, so that's not what I'm looking for. I'd never seen a picture of Ofeigur. He's my favorite of that bunch of pictures, but I don't single out any of these necks...but granted, it's probably because he's pictured standing pretty squarely, at liberty, not influenced by an extreme riding position, and I can see him most clearly. And because he has a wonderfully sweet and pleasant look about him. He reminds me of my Falki...I don't see either of them doing high-level dressage though, or even much mid-level dressage. He looks like he could be a very nice pleasure horse though - which is where my priorities are. BTW, I wouldn't begin to judge Orri's neck from that picture. It's taken at an odd angle, and the way he's being ridden has no doubt seriously affected his neck development - much like a human body-builder's neck will be quite exaggerated and unnatural. I have one of his granddaughters (of course, she has three other grandparents too!) and her neck certainly isn't anything special. But she's a pretty horse, sweet, smart and has good gaits. But I can't for the life of me see anything about his neck from that picture that looks like hers. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.9/832 - Release Date: 6/4/2007 6:43 PM
[IceHorses] Re: short neck
> I believe it's only more recently that higher set and longer necks are being > strived for as a goal in breeding. > just to show you some examples of "old" horses. These are stallions born 40 years and more ago: Þáttur frá Kirkjubæ born 1967 http://www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0004972.bmp world famous Hrafn fra Holtsmúli, born 1968 http://www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0001522.bmp Hörður fra Kolkuósi born 1957 http://www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0011952.bmp Hrimnir frá Vilmundarstöðum, born 1958 http://www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0037082.jpg Ófeigur frá Hvanneyri, born 1968 http://www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0008092.bmp and here the stallion that influenced the breed most in the last decade: Orri frá Þúfu http://www.worldfengur.com/hestamyndir/m0019272.bmp you can not really say, that he has a long, refined neck :-) and most of his offsprings do inherit it. so there have been "good" necks a long time ago and there are still "bad" necks around nowadays. Jasmin Jasmin
