Re: [IceHorses] A Woman Rider's Seat
>>> This problem is that the average measurement between seat bones on a male >>> pelvis is 100 mm, whereas the average female seat bones are 130 mm apart. I wonder how he got those numbers, and if they are pretty representative? That would equal about 3 7/8" spacing for a man, and about 5 1/8" for a woman. I'm not sure I know anyone well enough that I want poking around on my expanding derriere to measure mine - that I can trust not to laugh anyway... I wonder how wide the average horse's spinous processes are? Most of the rider's weight is typically on the seatbones - probably a good reminder of how important it is to get the saddle centered on the horse's back and to sit centered. It's also interesting to think that only in recent years (the last five, possibly ten) that we've been seeing gullet channels in treed saddles even close to that wide, yet we've always been told a major purpose of a treed saddle is to protect the horse's spine. Many new saddles still are much narrower than that in the gullet channel. I wonder if we look at it that way, if treeless saddles might actually provide more spinal protectionassuming of course, that the rider sits in a centered way, centered over the spine...? I need to ponder this a while and make some more observations on my horses. Wonder if I can even find the full width of the spinous processes on my "well protected" backs... Most Icelandic's - not all - seem to have nicely padded backs naturallyeither padded with fat or muscle or both. Even most out of shape horses seem to have some muscle padding, just via their natural conformation. I'm not convinced that there's much justification for picking a treed saddle over a treeless on that argument alone, especially when you can add a nice channel pad for extra insurance. Once you move to a treeless saddle, the width of the seat bones when considering rider comfort tends to be a non-issue, or so I've seen. What becomes the bigger issue for rider comfort is the feeling of the treeless having a twist or not - a little something in the center of the seat to boost the crotch up a tad, so that the hips don't feel totally spread out - that's REALLY important on the super-tankers, like Falki and Sina. That's why the Sensations are our preference for rider comfort - they have the best feeling of twist that any of the saddle we've tried offer, and the horses really like them.The Sensations also have that independent-panel design, that isolates any pressure on one side of the saddle from the other, whereas the single piece designs tend to pull down onto the center of the spine if the pressure is too one-sided. I liked the BMSS, but man, it killed me to ride it or the no-twist Barefoot on wide old Falki. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] A Woman Rider's Seat
On Apr 14, 2008, at 6:37 PM, Nancy Sturm wrote: > I haven't found a standard bike seat yet that provides *any* > support for > my seat bones. > > As a former competitive cyclist, I can say that you adapt. There are > a few > secrets. Leather seats are more comfortable than synthetic. Narrow > is more > comfortable than wide and anything you apply to the seat in the way of > fleece makes it chafe more. My daughter, who used to race beside me on > bikes and now rides horses somewhere out in front of me, used to have a > special label for the effect of many miles cycling. > > Nancy "Excruiating pain" comes to mind . I weigh about 200 lbs with a wide pelvis (even at 139 lbs I still wore size 14 pants to accomodate my hips), and my crotch just can't support that much weight on only soft tissue -- I need seat bone support. I was able to get a wide seat with a cutaway for my mountain bike, which is pretty easy on my soft tissue, but the racing seats on the spinning bikes at the gym are a no-go. Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/
Re: [IceHorses] A Woman Rider's Seat
I haven't found a standard bike seat yet that provides *any* support for my seat bones. As a former competitive cyclist, I can say that you adapt. There are a few secrets. Leather seats are more comfortable than synthetic. Narrow is more comfortable than wide and anything you apply to the seat in the way of fleece makes it chafe more. My daughter, who used to race beside me on bikes and now rides horses somewhere out in front of me, used to have a special label for the effect of many miles cycling. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] A Woman Rider's Seat
On Apr 14, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Judy Ryder wrote: > . Amazingly, > 93% had uneven weight distribution and found that riding caused more > pain > than any other sport, including cycling and martial arts. With some of > the > non-riders, excruciating pain was felt in the seat bones, some also > suffering from chaffing around the pubic bone area because of a > relatively > high or broad pommel and a deep and narrow seat. I find it hard to believe that! I haven't found a standard bike seat yet that provides *any* support for my seat bones. (I lasted five minutes in the intro to spinning class at the gym before deciding that straddling my paddock fence was at least as comfortable). OTOH, I love my Orthoflex saddles not only because they provide a good fit for a variety of horses but also because their seat design is consistant from style to style and places wide pelvis me in exactly the right spot, on my seat bones, to ride in a balanced and centered manner. And I've done 30 miles at a shot in the saddle, sans pain or chaffing. Lynn Kinsky, Santa Ynez, CA http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky/
[IceHorses] A Woman Rider's Seat
A Woman Rider's Seat by Peter Horobin, Master Saddler Riding horses has for years been a pastime where both sexes are able to compete on equal ground, although many women have been disadvantaged when it came to the saddle. Since women began to ride astride at the turn of the century, not a lot of design changes have been made specifically for the woman rider. Men design saddles, and then when saddles are made, men mostly make them. Research into the design of saddles, and the experience of women riders, show that the majority of saddles are not designed to suit the female pelvic area. This problem is that the average measurement between seat bones on a male pelvis is 100 mm, whereas the average female seat bones are 130 mm apart. Taking things a little further, an intensive study was done of the rider's discomfort. Data was taken from 71 sportswomen, including riders, and non-riders such as dancers, cyclists, and martial arts experts. Amazingly, 93% had uneven weight distribution and found that riding caused more pain than any other sport, including cycling and martial arts. With some of the non-riders, excruciating pain was felt in the seat bones, some also suffering from chaffing around the pubic bone area because of a relatively high or broad pommel and a deep and narrow seat. On the other hand, some of the experienced riders seemed to be immune to this type of discomfort. As a result, many had seemed to acquire awkward positions and tended to get pain higher up in their backs, probably from trying to get a little more comfortable. I'm sure a lot of women have been introduced to riding, and after riding in the wrong saddle, not suited to the width of their seat bones and coming up against the pommel, have soon after decided to give this "pleasure" sport a big miss! The other downside is that if the rider is uncomfortable, she will compensate by shifting her weight. This will then have a direct effect on the horse which will have to adjust accordingly. The obvious solution is to design a saddle specifically for women. In the past I have modified saddles, but now I make a saddle designed with the female pelvis in mind and providing the appropriate width seat and comfort for the pubic bone. Often riders would tell me that they felt like they were sitting on a fence rather than a saddle. If the female rider has wider seat bones and she is sitting in a saddle that is too narrow, she will be forced to sit on her crotch and not her seat bones. The changes are in the design of the tree and when the saddle is finished it just looks like any other saddle. The rider is not forced into a deep seat, wedged between a pommel and cantle. With the rider sitting more comfortably, she will find herself falling into a more natural, elegant and effective position - without using force. In a saddle that is actually built for a woman, then riding really will be a pleasure. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
