RE: [IceHorses] Pics of my trip to Hawaii-Founder myths
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My old Arab is Insulin Resistant and the vet says he may have > Cushings too. She said to watch him very carefully and check his > hooves in the mornings before I turn him out. She said he could > get Laminitis very easily and it would not be anything I'm doing as > I have him on a pretty low carb diet already... > > > That's what I was talking about, Ferne. Even with the best of > care, there will be times when horses will develop laminitis. > Managing diet and exercise can help and maybe even prevent some > cases, but there's a limit to how much a person can do. > Karen I really agree with this Karen. There are Cushings horses, I believe we have a cushings Icelandic which we manage very carefully with LMF low carb feed. Every batch is tested for the sugars. And there are people who just plain overfeed their horses, give too much grain, do not know what to look for...think that a fat horse is a good thingall this shows up in their feet so fast that a good farrier can tell if there is a change in food if there is a problem. Both things happenits whats makes up a big percentage of our farrier business. Sally is a Physician so she really understands the research and dealt with IR humans in her clinic in Seattle. The vets love her (except for the ones who do not like anyone else who knows anything...an unfortunate humane characteristic) as they can actually talk medical terms in dealing with these horses. Some horses are IR and some are overfed and fed incorrectly. Sometimes out of ignorance, sometimes thats how the owners show their love to their pets. And of course road founder, thats another whole issue of overworking a horse...
RE: [IceHorses] Pics of my trip to Hawaii-Founder myths
My old Arab is Insulin Resistant and the vet says he may have Cushings too. She said to watch him very carefully and check his hooves in the mornings before I turn him out. She said he could get Laminitis very easily and it would not be anything I'm doing as I have him on a pretty low carb diet already... That's what I was talking about, Ferne. Even with the best of care, there will be times when horses will develop laminitis. Managing diet and exercise can help and maybe even prevent some cases, but there's a limit to how much a person can do. I'm very happy that so much research is underway on this topic - it's amazing how much is known now compared to 10-12 years ago when we had our first cases here. Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: 11/22/2007 6:55 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Pics of my trip to Hawaii-Founder myths
On Nov 18, 2007 12:02 PM, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > No, that's not right. That's not what current research points to. Yes, > feeding is a big part of the management of a horse at risk for laminitis, > but the root cause of laminitis seems to be an internal cause. > >> > He had Cushing's > and laminitis is a very common symptom of Cushing's, > possibly one of the > most common causes per the research I've read. Just how would you blame an > owner for giving his/her horse Cushing's disease? You can't. > > > Let's not just blame the owners, and keep people ashamed to talk about > problems they didn't cause. That sort of thinking is not in the horses' > best interest. > > > > Karen Thomas > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > My old Arab is Insulin Resistant and the vet says he may have Cushings too. > She said to watch him very carefully and check his hooves in the mornings before I turn him out. She said he could get Laminitis very easily and it would not be anything I'm doing as I have him on a pretty low carb diet already... Ferne Fedeli
RE: [IceHorses] Pics of my trip to Hawaii-Founder myths
> I've had two horses that've had laminitis. One was overweight - > not as bad > as many Icelandic's I've seen, but she was fat. > Let's not just blame the owners, and keep people ashamed to talk > about > problems they didn't cause. That sort of thinking is not in the > horses' > best interest. I can see that point with Cushings horses..I was just talking about horses that founder, they are seperate issues in the same thread so to speak. And I was just talking about the horses in our business...the ones in our business have foundered because of the owners over feeding or feeding grain. That is a fact with the horses we have seen. I believe we also need to face the facts that founder is man made disease a lot of the timeI know people want to place blame elsewhere, and yes some horses are IR, and no matter what you do they will have issues as it is a metabolic thing with their internal bodies... Skye
RE: [IceHorses] Pics of my trip to Hawaii-Founder myths
>>> Actually, not all grasses are created the same, and warm weather tropical grasses are usully better, like bermuda for instance..and of course not overfeeding, and keeping up on the trims so the white line never streches, etc etc etcFoundered horses are A LOT of our farrier business, unfortunatley we have found that it is a human issue more than grass.Every foundered horse we have Ever seen in our business foundered because of humans..either overfeeding with no exercise, or put on full feed on rich cattle grass that is for cattle to fatten up on before slaughter. No, that's not right. That's not what current research points to. Yes, feeding is a big part of the management of a horse at risk for laminitis, but the root cause of laminitis seems to be an internal cause. Some horses simply seem to have low risk, while the others have such high risk that it's almost impossible to prevent - at least with the current knowledge base. Some horses can be fat and live on lush pastures forever and not develop laminitis. Some thin horses will also develop it. If there is anything that makes me angry, it's when people make it sound like stupid owners are the only cause of it. No wonder Icelandic owners denied that it occurs in this breed for so long. Who wants to be branded a careless, uncaring or stupid owner? Sometimes, it's simply going to happen. We do the best we can with management, but sometimes that's simply not enough. Bad enough to have a beloved horse get sick - it's salt in the wound to go blaming people who did nothing wrong. I've had two horses that've had laminitis. One was overweight - not as bad as many Icelandic's I've seen, but she was fat. The other horses in that very same pasture were not fat. None were getting any grain at all at that time. Why did she founder, and not the others? I'm sure if I tested her, we'd find she's insulin resistant, while the others aren't. We didn't know about IR then - thank god for the ongoing research that has since isolated it. My other horse who had laminitis was thin - was never an easy keeper and he lost even more weight the week or so before his attack. He had Cushing's and laminitis is a very common symptom of Cushing's, possibly one of the most common causes per the research I've read. Just how would you blame an owner for giving his/her horse Cushing's disease? You can't. My farrier says that a notable percentage of foundered horses he treats are thin. Maybe 20-30%...sure, many are fat, but certainly not all. Some are even normal weight. Let's not just blame the owners, and keep people ashamed to talk about problems they didn't cause. That sort of thinking is not in the horses' best interest. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.0/1136 - Release Date: 11/17/2007 2:55 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Pics of my trip to Hawaii-Founder myths
>>> Looks like they would founder for sure with all that green! Actually, not all grasses are created the same, and warm weather tropical grasses are usully better, like bermuda for instance..and of course not overfeeding, and keeping up on the trims so the white line never streches, etc etc etcFoundered horses are A LOT of our farrier business, unfortunatley we have found that it is a human issue more than grass.Every foundered horse we have Ever seen in our business foundered because of humans..either overfeeding with no exercise, or put on full feed on rich cattle grass that is for cattle to fatten up on before slaughter. And the rare, got into the feed room and overate grain. I have 1 horse who I have in a large paddock and feed LMF low carb with alfalfa pellets...he does great on that diet, otherwise my horses are on pasture. In our part of hawaii the pasture grasses grow year round, which is nice for our feed bill and more natural for them. We do our best to keep our horses in a natural environment Skye Fire Island Farms Breeding Quality Icelandic Trail Horses Certified Farrier Services 'Natural Balance' Shoeing and Trimming. Founder, Navicular options for your horse. 808-640-6080
