[IceHorses] Re: Prey/Predator
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, Robyn Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It doesn't mean that they won't teach the filly about > being a horse but they usually do it in a pretty non-violent >way. Here is the reason I have to be careful, she has been in a herd for most of her two years, but when she was put out with a bunch of mares she got scared and went and got herself stuck behind a tractor at her farm of origin and they had to cut the fence to get her out. Eventually her father, who was gelded, took her on and protected her. Now she doesn't have that. She has been fine with another two year old, a small colt and a mini. She is out with an elderly mare right now, and the colt is out in the daytime. It is fine, but I know they would be happier if I incorporate her into my herd. One day she will have to be with them anyway, I will be buying my own property, so I might as well start working on it. She did meet my herd, she gave the mollys a kick and they left her alone, I think Dari likes her, he was grooming her, but Snorri chased her and she panicked. That is why I am going to take it slow and maybe introduce them in the round pen separately, over the fence, etc. I think it's most important that Dari and Snorri get used to her, the mules are usually afraid of horses and defer to them. Dari also once chased a horse filly around until she was trying to go through the electric fence. I think in the pasture the Icelandics can be a little dominating (and Dari was usually on the bottom of the ranking with other Icelandics). The only reason I haven't done it yet is the weather has been horrid, either freezing cold with ice, or gusting winds with cold rain, tons of mud. It has finally dried and has been nice, but it's supposed to snow on Friday again, blah. > The more that I study interspecies communication - when they are one-on-one, > or look at horses in large group situation, I see that animals have some > great ways of de-escalating aggression. I love watching them too. Kim
[IceHorses] Re: Prey/Predator
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That's the part I rarely hear discussed re: c/t - when those wheels may > start spinning to the point that the horse offers behaviors one after > another, almost as a click-aholic. Or when you need to do something simple, > like say, check the pulses in the horse's foot, and he/she wants praise for > picking up their foot, or decides to "count" by pawing, whatever. That > simply wears on my nerves. This kind of thing has happened to me. It seems to depend on the horse though, Celie is the one who is always doing this stuff. She gets so excited about it she just starts doing trick to see if she will hit the jackpot. If I don't want her doing it I just ignore it or tell her no and she only gets a treat if I give her the sign and then she does the trick, I haven't found that it has interfered with anything I am really trying to do though. The others don't do this so much. Just as you can reward behavior to encourage it, ignoring behavior (as long as it's not dangerous) usually extinguishes it (this can be done with people too:) Kim Kim
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Prey/Predator
On 3/12/07, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Or when you need to do something simple, > like say, check the pulses in the horse's foot, and he/she wants praise for > picking up their foot, or decides to "count" by pawing, whatever. That > simply wears on my nerves. Mine too... I teach the pick up cue as squeezing the chestnut, it's not necessary for me to get my horse to pick her feet up by pointing at them! Steph -- "Brutality begins where skill ends." "Correctly understood, work at the lunge line is indispensable for rider and horse from the very beginning through the highest levels." Von Niendorff
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Prey/Predator
>>> I think it works great, there might be a little mugging at first, but that goes away when they figure out this isn't the way to get a treat. Clicker training really gets them on board with whaterever you are trying to do really quickly, you can just see those wheels start to spin. That's the part I rarely hear discussed re: c/t - when those wheels may start spinning to the point that the horse offers behaviors one after another, almost as a click-aholic. Or when you need to do something simple, like say, check the pulses in the horse's foot, and he/she wants praise for picking up their foot, or decides to "count" by pawing, whatever. That simply wears on my nerves. I haven't clicker trained many horses - and none extensively. I'm talking about horses I've seen others train, and whom I've occasionally had to deal with. Eagerness is a good thing...up to a point. I honestly don't worry about the mugging for treats as much as I do when you can't get a horse to pay attention to what you're asking him to do because he/she is trying SO hard to offer one behavior after another. I'm sure there are ways to avoid this syndrome...but I don't hear it discussed much, and I think people should be thinking about where they are going with the clicker when they start it. But then, I guess that applies to ALL training we do. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Prey/Predator
Hi Kim, >>>I don't really know their herd dynamics, they said he might give her trouble. I'm not putting her in there. I would like to incorporate her into my herd and I started yesterday with letting them visit over the gate. I would agree with you not to put her in their herd and I am sure she will do fine with your horses. In any hierarchy there is some dynamics and some that may be seen as leaders, but even then I see that context plays a role. Some horses really like to eat, others lead play, etc. Herd dynamics are an interesting study. I think that there are some horses that are kind of bossy that are actually quite insecure and you can really see it when they are in a herd of pretty secure easy going horses, which sounds like you have. It doesn't mean that they won't teach the filly about being a horse but they usually do it in a pretty non-violent way. The more that I study interspecies communication - when they are one-on-one, or look at horses in large group situation, I see that animals have some great ways of de-escalating aggression. They may just meet each other with an equal vocal or posturing lever (without physically making contact) and then they kind of melt the situation and walk away without have any altercation. It is fascinating to watch. Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
[IceHorses] Re: Prey/Predator
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Virginia Tupper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I don't know that Orri is dominant--I'm repeating what his breeder > told me and what the barn owner tells me. Orri 'fights' with the > other 'top' gelding all the time. I see Orri as soft and gentle. > > I just wanted to comment on this because I was just thinking about the same thing. My filly has been out with another filly, a colt and a mine for maybe a couple of months, now they wanted to take their filly out (2 years old) to break her (that's another topic), they wanted to put mine out with their herd, but they have a gelding who I have seen pin another horse against something and kick the snot out of them. I don't really know their herd dynamics, they said he might give her trouble. I'm not putting her in there. I would like to incorporate her into my herd and I started yesterday with letting them visit over the gate. Here is the thing, the people where I board said my filly is the top horse with the ones she has been with and "needs to be taken down a notch". Yes, she may be the top horse in her little herd, so? I am guessing she will get to be top horse in my herd, so? There is always a horse who will tend to lead. In my mind there is a big difference, most of the time, between a lead horse in the pasture and how they act with me. I don't need to control how they act in the pasture. I have a mentally stable herd and they can be pretty playful, but not really mean and don't injure each other. A nip here and there, maybe a little warning kicking, jumping on each other, Dari and Snorri love to mock fight, wrestle, Zoe the mule gallops up to Dari and jumps on his back (a mule/donkey thing from what I can tell). So my filly Rose may be more dominant with a herd, but she accepts me as leader very easily, so there is no problem. There can be a big difference between how they act in a herd and how they act with a person. It has to be looked at on a case by case basis, but the important thing is how they interact with us. > > > I do like what I've been reading about clicker, but part of me worries > about turning my horses into spoiled treat muggers. I was thinking > about trying it selectively to test it out. I think it works great, there might be a little mugging at first, but that goes away when they figure out this isn't the way to get a treat. Clicker training really gets them on board with whaterever you are trying to do really quickly, you can just see those wheels start to spin. Kim
