RE: [IceHorses] Re: Another step in starting the mares...
I got it this morning, too, but no whacking. Hmm, maybe The Sopranos own my Internet service provider, if I'm the only one getting whacked. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Another step in starting the mares...
> I'm much more careful now to do a lot of leaning over their necks, > banging a little on thei > > Are some of my posts coming through to everyone else chopped off > mid-sentence? I got the one above OK, as it said: "I'm much more careful now to do a lot of leaning over their necks, banging a little on their rumps, etc, before I ever get on. Plus, my horses are less reactive than Gracie..." I sent this one yesterday mid-morning, but it didn't show up from yahoo until this morning about 6:30am, and it's been whacked oddly. I got it this morning, too, but no whacking. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Another step in starting the mares...
I'm much more careful now to do a lot of leaning over their necks, banging a little on thei Are some of my posts coming through to everyone else chopped off mid-sentence? I've noticed it 2-3 times now, but when I've checked, they've look fine in my outbox. Also, I sent this one yesterday mid-morning, but it didn't show up from yahoo until this morning about 6:30am, and it's been whacked oddly. A couple of mine last week went through about 4:30am...and I promise, I am not up doing e-mail at that hour. :) Sometimes yahoo is just weird... Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Another step in starting the mares...
head down supposedly releases endorphins. Calms and soothes. I trained my berserk stonewall to do a head down and he will do it and then instantluyu go back to being too excited. but i have always noticed when we go to a new place and they emerge from the trailer nervous and blowy, if I will let them lower the head and graze a little then they settle down immediately. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Another step in starting the mares...
>>> I don't remember the reasoning, but the head down cue is supposed to help >>> diffuse excitement and nervousness. Is it that it mimics eating and thus a >>> soothing, calming memory related action or is it something physiological? >>> I'll see if I can find more info on that. That's true, but I'm not exactly sure why either. For these mares, it's not a big deal, because they are all calm, confident mares - just unexposed to tack experiences. For us, it was as simple as knowing that a girth will self-tighten if the horse drops her head to the ground, and what better diversion in the drought than allowing them to grab a little bit of coveted grass. We save this sort of training until July-August usually because it's too hot for any of us, horses or humans, to be tempted to rush. Our next milestone will come early-mid August. The barn swallows usually vacate about August 4-7th or so, and within a day or so, we'll have the big horseflies back. I first noticed their departure date when we were starting Gracie under saddle about 9-10 years ago. All was going exceedingly well, until she got her first horsefly on her butt with a rider up...and that rider was I. As a lot of horses will do, she kicked out behind to get the fly off, and I instinctively leaned forward and grabbed mane. Wrong! That really triggered the mountain-lion-attack response and I got violently bucked off - and she stepped on my ankle in the process. I think the initial kick would have been a non-event, but my leaning forward and grabbing mane was too much for her. I'm much more careful now to do a lot of leaning over their necks, banging a little on their rumps, etc, before I ever get on. Plus, my horses are less reactive than Gracie was, and until I met Icelandic's, I thought Gracie was pretty darned calm! We will either mount the mares before the barn swallows leave or give them a few weeks after they've left, but I'll never mount another one the week they leave! Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.23/924 - Release Date: 7/28/2007 3:50 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Another step in starting the mares...
I'd like to know more about head down/calming. I have a TWH endurance horse that sometimes has trouble pulsing down as quickly as I would hope he would because he is excited, usually about losing sight of a horse friend he has made on trail. I would love to come up with some easy calming solution. The Arab I used to ride calmed dramatically when I stroked his face, but Hunter does not like being stroked. This is hard for strangers to "read". He has a sleek shiney coat and folks want to touch him. He barely tolerates it. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Another step in starting the mares...
This is also why we do the saddle pad sliding off the horse from both
sides and behind, as the pad slides off we say whoa and they get a crunchie
off of the saddle pad on the ground.
We've done that and more with each of these three mares, and so far, not a
one has blinked an eye about something dropping off their back. They are
doing so well and I'm very proud of them - but we are still going through
all the steps. One thing that I think really helps is that these mares have
been handled as long as we've had them, and exposed to the weird customs of
humans. Of course, Svertla was ignored for the four years she was in
Florida, but Anneliese had handled her some as a filly. I'm so glad she had
that two years to begin with. She's just as easy as the others - in some
ways, she's one of the most confident horses I've ever met.
And, of course, they've had the valuable experience of being exposed to
daydreaming, fidgety Cary ("bless his heart") who serves as our walking,
incidental despooker. Horses seem to love him, and so, his unthinking - or
bratty-little-boyish - actions seem to do more good than harm...:)
Karen
Karen Thomas
Wingate, NC
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3:50 PM
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Re: [IceHorses] Re: Another step in starting the mares...
>> We let them graze for a few minutes while the cinched girths are a > new concept. Sometimes when they put their heads down, a girth with > give them a sense of being "grabbed." It seems to help when that > happens when they are distracted by grass.. > Karen Thomas, NC > > Karen, are you saying that you allow the horses to graze to > help keep them calm? I've often thought that allowing them to eat when > they are nervous is a smart thing, but I think I'm in the minority in > thinking this way... Good question, Dawn! I haven't tied a horse to be saddled in a long time. I just do it on the lawn, or if in the paddock, just at liberty. I think this may be different, tho, if it's a boarding barn situation, where it's not an option and horses have to be tied up Unless you're able to give them a bucket of treats. Just think, why not? It shouldn't be *required* to keep an adult horse calm enough to be saddle (that would be masking a problem), but just as a courtesty or a gift to the horse who is going to be working for us. Physiologically, it's a good thing for the horse :-) Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Another step in starting the mares...
Hi Anna >>>Is it that it mimics eating and thus a soothing, calming memory related action or is it something physiological? I'll see if I can find more info on that. There is a physiological aspect to eating as well. The eyes, mouth and salivary glands are main controllers of the parasympathetic nervous system which triggers relaxation. So letting them eat a bit, whether it be grazing or a crunchie or bit of grain, does help trigger relaxation. The other reasons we use food is that it helps them keep breathing more deeply as opposed to holding their breath and it creates a pleasant experience association with the activity. One of the steps we use with starting young horses or reschooling older ones is to have a person walk up from behind, to the head of the horse, saying whoa as they are walking and immediately give them a bit of food. What it helps with is things coming up from behind. This is also why we do the saddle pad sliding off the horse from both sides and behind, as the pad slides off we say whoa and they get a crunchie off of the saddle pad on the ground. Christine writes about it in one of her books. All the training that Christine does is based on the TTEAM approach as she started working here when she was 18 and had spent six weeks working with my sister Linda. The other thing is to watch how horses eat, whether it be grass or other food, if they are eating in a relaxed way they are probably just processing what you are doing, if they start grabbing a food it can be an indication of nervousness. Think about people, some people eat frantically when then are nervous and others stop eating - same goes for horses in my experience. The head down can have a calming effect if you consider posture in terms of a horses response to things. Head up, usually means a tight back putting the horse in potential preparation for flight; when the head is down the back is usually more relaxed and then are not ready to run. However, they can quickly change from one posture to another should the situation change, but then, so can we. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Another step in starting the mares...
On 7/29/07, Anna Hopkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'll see if I can find more info on that. > All I could find in the book is that it is also called the calm down cue and a high headed horse is excited horse. Anna
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Another step in starting the mares...
On 7/29/07, dawn_atherton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Karen, are you saying that you allow the horses to graze to > help keep them calm? I've often thought that allowing them to eat when > they are nervous is a smart thing, but I think I'm in the minority in > thinking this way... Could the head being down also have a calming affect. One of the first thing I clicker train my horses to do is to stand with their head down. I don't remember the reasoning, but the head down cue is supposed to help diffuse excitement and nervousness. Is it that it mimics eating and thus a soothing, calming memory related action or is it something physiological? I'll see if I can find more info on that. Anna
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Another step in starting the mares...
> > Karen, are you saying that you allow the horses to graze to > help keep them calm? I've often thought that allowing them to eat when > they are nervous is a smart thing, but I think I'm in the minority in > thinking this way... > > Dawn Bruin-Slot Dawn: Eating grass is the ultimate default behavior in horses - when in doubt: eat! Horses have to get their heads down to eat, getting their heads down has a calming effect. Seems pretty obvious to me! How could you be in the minority, thinking that way? Anneliese
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Another step in starting the mares...
Karen, are you saying that you allow the horses to graze to help keep them calm? I've often thought that allowing them to eat when they are nervous is a smart thing, but I think I'm in the minority in thinking this way... I'm not exactly sure if it calms them, but it is a diversion, and in this case, a treat. I do think some horses, like some people, take comfort in eating when they are a little nervous or unsure. (Sheesh, and I used to be one who lost her appetite when stressed...I've certainly moved on past that!) These mares don't seem nervous though, but getting to eat grass for a minute sort of compensated for the new - and potentially "strange" - feeling of having something "grab" them around their middles. I doubt this step was necessary for these particular horses, but we try to do as much as we can in a low-stress, positive way. I'm too old to hit the ground if I can help it! Karen Thomas, NC
