RE: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
--- Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone explain to me why a few people always get so defensive about Gudmar, when he's not even been mentioned? After all, there are lots of other Icelander trainers that come and go in the USA... I think the comment was really about Holar, not about Gudmar, wasn't that it? There are several Icelanders who do training in the US, I would hope that they are trying to bring in nice, naturally gaited horses for people, that is good to hear. It hasn't always been this way. I've seen with my own eye, very pacey horses and very trotty horses, exported for sale to people in the US. I guess they were relying on us being ignorant about gaits. There were a couple of nice naturally tolting horses thrown in there too, really nice, but come to think of it none of the major importers were directly responsible for that one. There were 4 gaiters, that some people could not get to tolt so easily, that's not entirely uncommon. I think education of the consumer forces suppliers to be more responsive to their consumers, that is a good thing. Maybe it's working. Kim
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
--- Christine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ever wonder why so few do? This group is like a private little sorority. Those on the inside appear to be pointing to us and saying, poor things, they just aren't enlightened like us. We'll let them in when they agree with us. That's all I have to say. You can say any snotty thing you want. I get blasted my share, and I just keep going anyway:) I don't think it was bad for Judy to ask if horses gaited at liberty or on a loose rein at Gudmar's. If people decide to import horses and put them up for sale, why can't questions be asked? Why shouldn't feedback be given? I know there is a point to it, a question some of us have, and that is why more Icelandics don't show gait at liberty? I'm not sure of the answer. There are naturally gaited Icelandics who can gait without help, at liberty, I think it would be nice if they were the majority and I'm not sure they are. It's nice to see a horse who can do multiple gaits at liberty, trot, gait, canter, etc. I don't think I would buy a horse who showed only trot and no soft gaits, if I am looking for a gaited horse, that isn't ideal for me. Kim
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
I know there is a point to it, a question some of us have, and that is why more Icelandics don't show gait at liberty? I'm not sure of the answer. There are naturally gaited Icelandics who can gait without help, at liberty, I think it would be nice if they were the majority and I'm not sure they are. It's nice to see a horse who can do multiple gaits at liberty, trot, gait, canter, etc. I don't think I would buy a horse who showed only trot and no soft gaits, if I am looking for a gaited horse, that isn't ideal for me. As I've said before, good horses, good trainers, good practices, etc. should stand up to questions. Just my nature, but when I'm reprimanded when I ask questions, told I'm being rude, or if I'm told the subject is too complicated then red flags go up - and then I REALLY start asking questions! On the other hand, if I ask questions and get satisfactory answers, the horse/trainer/practices/etc will only look stronger in my view. Karen Thomas, NC -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/2007 3:33 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 07:42:43AM -0500, Karen Thomas wrote: When did his name come up? I BELIEVE that Vicka brought him up this time. Can someone explain to me why a few people always get so defensive about Gudmar, when he's not even been mentioned? After all, there are lots of other Icelander trainers that come and go in the USA... well, he was mentioned; i mentioned him, as we were talking about holar and their farriery instructions, and gudmar's a holar-educated person who shod a horse i have ridden a lot. so we're dealing in data here. i don't want to claim knowledge of holar-people in general, since i don't know that, but we do have another specifically-gudmar data point available in christine's geisli. so that's why. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 10:00:30AM -0500, Karen Thomas wrote: Now think about that a minute. That's what Judy DOES, if you haven't noticed. She asks questions. well, and didn't i answer them? (this is a real question too; i've been having trouble posting my pic to the list, i'm not sure if my reply got through either...) And maybe you wouldn't seem so defensive, if you chose to ask question or make points on subjects other than Gudmar, and traditional stuff. and here i thought i was one of the chattier people about anything i ever thought about And please, give Judy credit. She invited you to submit pictures of your horse - from Gudmar - gaiting either at liberty or under saddle. did this pic ever, ever get through? it is here: http://www.andor.org/icehorses/loose-rein-tolt.jpg if the listserver never deals :/ --vicka
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
originally yes, i think, but we have gudmar as an example from holar. does anyone else have any holar-trained farrier work to point to in particular? Check the archives. It's full. And what about the long list of articles that Kim quickly dug up and referenced yesterday? Many of those gems were written by Holar graduates I think. And, yes to Judy's question. I DO remember the young American who went to Iceland a couple of years ago, and came back calling himself a master farrier when it was well-known he'd never ridden a horse just a few months before. In the USA, I think it takes a minimum of 5-10 years, maybe longer, to get that title from any of the major farriery organizations. Many times, it takes longer. In Iceland, farriery seems to center around training. In the USA, it GENERALLY seems to center around health care issues. Farriers in this country - reputable ones - seem to focus on balanced trims, safe and appropriate shoeing for therapeutic and traction needs. It's more than a full-time career in the USA - even when most good farriers don't concern themselves with gait manipulation. (Note that I said good farriers. Yes, we do have some non-professionals who don't know better, but we have very good options too.) I never see GOOD farriers trailing around behind trainers, doing work at their beck and call. I DO occasionally see farriers meeting with vets to plan an appropriate therapy for a navicular horse, or a laminitic horse... And in the redneck gaited horse show world...yes, you'll see and hear of gaited horse farriers. I don't think those are the folks we want to pick as our role models though... Karen Thomas, NC -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/2007 3:33 PM The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] The video every Icelandic Horse owner should have: http://IceHorses.net/video.html [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses [] IceHorses ToolBar http://iceryder.ourtoolbar.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
Hi Christina Judy's note questioning Vicka about the horses at Gudmar's barn re tolting at liberty, on a loose rein, and shoes was clear that she was questioning him. There is so much criticism of anything from Iceland on this list. I wanted to raise my hand to say my experience is different. Maybe Gudmar is an exception to the rules here. I have been going to post something before about Gudmar and can understand you concerns about posting to the list. While I know that the criticism is meant to show concern for the horses it can be discouraging for people to post something with a very different point of view. I have known Gudmar and his family, mostly his father, whom I met about 30 years ago. I don't know Gudmar well but I do know him, by reputation, as far as selling horses go. I have to say I have only heard good things from people who have bought horses from him and from what I have seen he is careful and honest about matching horses and riders and fair about return policies etc. He has grown up in the horse business and, from what I know, continues to learn as much as he can. Once again I hope that the we can stay away from the polarization that happens on many lists and makes people hesitate to post items that may have different opinions or experiences without waiting to get blasted. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/2007 3:33 PM The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] The video every Icelandic Horse owner should have: http://IceHorses.net/video.html [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses [] IceHorses ToolBar http://iceryder.ourtoolbar.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
Hi I'm kinda curious if I missed some e-mails, but since I noticed this phenomenon once before, I don't think I did. Did anyone criticize Gudmar? When did his name come up? At the risk of starting it all over, Gudmar's name did come up from the TV interview he gave a couple of weeks ago that produced quite the barrage about mis-information and he has been targeted several times about his age and his opinions on SE etc. So I can understand people on this list who have bought horses from him and had good experiences to feel slightly affronted and wanting to come to his defence. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com I BELIEVE that Vicka brought him up this time. Can someone explain to me why a few people always get so defensive about Gudmar, when he's not even been mentioned? After all, there are lots of other Icelander trainers that come and go in the USA... Karen Thomas, NC -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/623 - Release Date: 1/11/2007 3:33 PM The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] The video every Icelandic Horse owner should have: http://IceHorses.net/video.html [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses [] IceHorses ToolBar http://iceryder.ourtoolbar.com/ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
I understand that for one of the last evaluations, they brought in a horseshoer from Iceland to shoe all the horses. There may be a horseshoer from Iceland present, but no one would be required to use his services. Cheryl ToltallyICE at Sand Creek Icelandic Horse Farm Icelandic Horses and Icelandic Sheepdogs email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.toltallyice.com Idaho
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
in england, he would have been laughed at. there is takes years! to have the honor of calling yourself a master farrier. raven It does in the USA as well. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
--- Raven [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yes! i have a freind who isone of the MH judges. last year i watched her at evaluting a mare who was not really set in gait. she didn't pass her. advised the owner to go home and work on cleaning up the gaits. ;] kim, trigger is cute!! i can see why you named him that. raven So they really will pass on some horses! Sadly Trigger is not mine, just a friend of mine. Kim
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
I believe attending any clinic for information is always a good thing... Well, I USED to think that...until I went to one particular clinic about 3-4 years ago. I had never felt so duped in my life. I basically agree with you though - I just no longer say ANY clinic, but MANY clinics. And Wanda, you live in a semi-extreme location on the continent...would YOU drive/fly all over the USA/Canada to attend a clinic without having a darned good idea of who and what you were going to see? I think I know the answer to that - just making that point for others... :) Most people on this list can get access to good clinics, seminars, educational events within a reasonable driving distance - I get notices almost daily of some educational opportunity even within my county, many of which are held at night in the next town - sponsored by the county Ag department, the county equestrian group, the farrier's group, NCSU vet school, the rescue agency... I just got a notice about the next Farrier's group's meeting while I've been sitting here this morning. It's just a little insulting to imply that we need to travel thousands of miles to learn basics that we can learn on a week night or weekend seminar. If I'm going to travel a long distance to learn something about Icelandics, then I plan to make sure it's not something I can learn closer to home. Karen Thomas, NC -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/622 - Release Date: 1/10/2007 2:52 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
Well, I USED to think that...until I went to one particular clinic about 3-4 years ago. I had never felt so duped in my life. I basically agree with you though - I just no longer say ANY clinic, but MANY clinics. However, you DID learn something from that clinic didn't you :)?? And Wanda, you live in a semi-extreme location on the continent...would YOU drive/fly all over the USA/Canada to attend a clinic without having a darned good idea of who and what you were going to see? I think I know the answer to that - just making that point for others... :) No, the driving club we belong to has a membership of people with many years of horses experiencevast horse experience. When they put on a clinic...it's something Kevin and I can count on to give us some good information. Having said that, every clinic we've attended we've come away with many things we can use...and some we just plain won't use. Wanda
RE: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
Well, I USED to think that...until I went to one particular clinic about 3-4 years ago. I had never felt so duped in my life. I basically agree with you though - I just no longer say ANY clinic, but MANY clinics. However, you DID learn something from that clinic didn't you :)?? Oh yeah, I learned to warn people that there are scam clinics out there, and they should ask a lot of questions before they spend the time and effort to go see someone they don't have good information on. I learned to remember that old adage, Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me! But, was it really a good use of my time and money. No way. I would have been better off spending one-on-one time with my own horses, in a non-clinic, non-lesson environment. Having said that, every clinic we've attended we've come away with many things we can use...and some we just plain won't use. There's a limit to how many how not to clinics I want to attend, like the one I mentioned. There are plenty of GOOD clinics, so why waste the time/money on the downright silly ones...? Karen Thomas, NC -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/622 - Release Date: 1/10/2007 2:52 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Re: Holar now gait and shoeing
On 1/11/07, stroppelj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so no change here. Maybe Herðis took into consideration that most Icelandic horses are bigger today because of better feeding, not because of a chance in the breeding standard. Jasmin I hope it is better feeding/keeping and not supply and demand! Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
