Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Dean Willis]

On Mar 30, 2010, at 4:55 AM, Robert Kisteleki wrote:


On 2010.03.30. 11:41, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:

I'll prepare information about all of this as soon as I know the
transition status during the IETF week. And in any event, there are  
no

early booking / online booking discounts for Dutch train tickets, and
buying online with Dutch Railways requires the iDEAL payment system  
that

only Dutch banks use.


That reminds me: if you intend to use a credit card in electronic  
contexts (such as buying train tickets at a machine, etc.), you  
should make sure you know your PIN code. On the way home from  
Anaheim I helped some guy who had some problems because he wasn't  
even aware that his card had a PIN code.




Many US cards do not work in point-of-sale applications in Europe even  
if one knows the PIN code. Last Spring, I had 6 US bank cards and a  
SwissPost card rejected at the train kiosk in Amsterdam, and I believe  
the same 6 failed at whatever IETF we last went to in Europe, because  
I recall borrowing train tickets from Ole.


--
Dean
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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[John Levine]

>I think they have changed that now, and my latest debit card came
>with a notice that it can be used PIN-free for purchases under 10 pounds.
>This uses the RFID in the card and only works at retailers like
>Caffe Nero, who have installed the RFID readers.

Adding to the confusion, although there are no contact chip cards in
the US, we do have contactless MasterCard (Paypass), Visa (Paywave),
and American Express (Express Pay) cards.  But you still don't use a
PIN when you pay, either you just tap it if the amount is small, or
you tap and then sign.

R's,
John
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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Michael Dillon]

> I have never seen a credit card purchase with PIN.

In the UK, all credit card purchases use a PIN with Chip-and-PIN cards
except when their network link is down or your card is registered as
signature-only. Some elderly and disabled people have the signature-only
option, and foreigners too, of course.

Debit cards, however, can be used without a PIN in certain circumstances.
A few years back, I forgot my PIN code after changing it and promptly
spending a month abroad. Back in the UK, I paid at the supermarket with
the debit card, and asked for 10 or 20 quid cashback. No PIN, no problems.
I think they have changed that now, and my latest debit card came
with a notice that it can be used PIN-free for purchases under 10 pounds.
This uses the RFID in the card and only works at retailers like
Caffe Nero, who have installed the RFID readers. It's basically
the same as the Oystercard used for riding the tube, and in fact,
many people have a special Oystercard (perhaps with extra RFID)
that works in coffeeshops too.

--Michael Dillon
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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Martin Rex]

I live in Germany, and I had ordered all the Credit cards (Master and Visa)
which I used during 1994-2008 explicitly _without_ PIN -- because I did _NOT_
want them to be usable to draw cash from an ATM, only for signature
based transactions.  Going into a bank and obtaining cash
with card, picture-ID and signature was still possible.
Paying in restaurants and shops, hotels and rental cars is also
possible with only signature-based transacations.

I have never seen a credit card purchase with PIN.
Have Visa/MasterCard/etc. come up with additional payment options
like Maestro, ElectronicCash and the stuff that you have on traditional
ATM cards?

-Martin


Ole Jacobsen wrote:
> 
> This is only true for EUROPEAN issued credit cards (some of which have 
> chips and some which don't). You can get a PIN for your US credit 
> card, but it will NOT work for credit card purchases, only as your PIN 
> for cash advances (like an ATM card). There is no PIN required when 
> using US-based cards for purchases, and if you are asked to provide 
> one, the PIN you have been given for cash advances will NOT work.
> 
> Yes, it is confusing to say the least.
> 
> I agree that we should move this to a new list: ietf-78 which I hereby
> ask Ray to create.
> 
> Ole
> 
> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Dmitry Burkov wrote:
> > 
> > Wrong - cards - both as credits and debits work without any chips - only PIN
> > required - Visa and Mastercard.
> > 
> > Dima
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> 

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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Spencer Dawkins]

Hi, Ole,

I'm still having coherency problems after IETF 77 - sorry.

What I was wondering wasn't why there is an attendees list (I remember the 
"where is the nearest Apple store" discussions that resulted in current 
practice).


What I'm wondering is why we continue to set up 76attendees, 77attendees, 
78attendees, and not something like ietf-attendees. Whatever current 
practice is on opt-in, and on pretty much everything else about the way the 
NNattendees lists are handled, seems to be fine.


I'm remembering that we were already getting information about Hiroshima 
(IETF 76) posted prior to IETF 75 (including very helpful material from 
you), and we had some discussions about the IETF 78 site that started soon 
after IETF 76. If we have 70-percent turnover in who's subscribed to each 
ietf meeting-specific list, having ietf meeting-specific lists makes sense, 
but if it's 70-percent the same people each time, why not have one list that 
we use for all site-specific topics, so if someone were to have something 
helpful to say about IETF 79 in Beijing now, there would be an obvious place 
to put it, and an equally obvious place to look for it in a few months when 
people are making travel arrangements?


Just a thought...

Spencer


Spencer,

This practice was started because the main IETF list got flooded with
messages like "where is the nearest Apple store?" once we were onsite
and this annoyed the folks who weren't actually at the meeting. Having
it (opt-in) on a per-meeting basis makes sense to me, if we create the
list in advance of the meeting (pre-registration), I guess we'd have
to figure out some subscription mechanims (like "you will be
auto-subscribed once you post your first message to ietf-xx" or
something like that.) I can see a lot of value in having a list
created well in advance to answer questions such as visa and
transportation.

Ole

Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher,  The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972   Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: o...@cisco.com  URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj



On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Spencer Dawkins wrote:


I'm not sure I understand what problem we're solving by setting up IETF
meeting-specific mailing lists each time. It's not like most of the 
attendees
at IETF 77 weren't at at least one meeting in the previous year, and if 
there
is a population on earth that we should expect to be able to unsubscribe 
from
mailing lists when they aren't relevant to us, it's IETF attendees. Maybe 
an

ietf-meeting-attendees mailing list, and be done with it?

Spencer





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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Ole Jacobsen]

Spencer,

This practice was started because the main IETF list got flooded with 
messages like "where is the nearest Apple store?" once we were onsite
and this annoyed the folks who weren't actually at the meeting. Having
it (opt-in) on a per-meeting basis makes sense to me, if we create the
list in advance of the meeting (pre-registration), I guess we'd have 
to figure out some subscription mechanims (like "you will be 
auto-subscribed once you post your first message to ietf-xx" or 
something like that.) I can see a lot of value in having a list 
created well in advance to answer questions such as visa and 
transportation.

Ole

Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher,  The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972   Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: o...@cisco.com  URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj



On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Spencer Dawkins wrote:

> I'm not sure I understand what problem we're solving by setting up IETF
> meeting-specific mailing lists each time. It's not like most of the attendees
> at IETF 77 weren't at at least one meeting in the previous year, and if there
> is a population on earth that we should expect to be able to unsubscribe from
> mailing lists when they aren't relevant to us, it's IETF attendees. Maybe an
> ietf-meeting-attendees mailing list, and be done with it?
> 
> Spencer
> 

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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Spencer Dawkins]

I'm not sure I understand what problem we're solving by setting up IETF 
meeting-specific mailing lists each time. It's not like most of the 
attendees at IETF 77 weren't at at least one meeting in the previous year, 
and if there is a population on earth that we should expect to be able to 
unsubscribe from mailing lists when they aren't relevant to us, it's IETF 
attendees. Maybe an ietf-meeting-attendees mailing list, and be done with 
it?


Spencer


Yes, it is confusing to say the least.

I agree that we should move this to a new list: ietf-78 which I hereby
ask Ray to create.

Ole

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Dmitry Burkov wrote:


Wrong - cards - both as credits and debits work without any chips - only 
PIN

required - Visa and Mastercard.

Dima

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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Ole Jacobsen]

This is only true for EUROPEAN issued credit cards (some of which have 
chips and some which don't). You can get a PIN for your US credit 
card, but it will NOT work for credit card purchases, only as your PIN 
for cash advances (like an ATM card). There is no PIN required when 
using US-based cards for purchases, and if you are asked to provide 
one, the PIN you have been given for cash advances will NOT work.

Yes, it is confusing to say the least.

I agree that we should move this to a new list: ietf-78 which I hereby
ask Ray to create.

Ole

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Dmitry Burkov wrote:
> 
> Wrong - cards - both as credits and debits work without any chips - only PIN
> required - Visa and Mastercard.
> 
> Dima
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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Dmitry Burkov]

On 30.03.10 20:13, John Levine wrote:

When you pay with _credit_card_ to Dutch railway ticket machines you
will be asked to enter PIN code ...
 

European credit cards have an embedded chip that does a crypto
handshake using your PIN with the bank to validate the transaction.
This process is known in English as chip+pin and is considered
equivalent to a manual signature.  There are, as far as I know, no US
banks currently issuing cards with chips, which means your US card
won't work in a ticket machine that requires a PIN, even if your card
has a PIN that works to get cash at an ATM.  For over the counter
   


Wrong - cards - both as credits and debits work without any chips - only 
PIN required - Visa and Mastercard.


Dima

transactions, the machine that clerks use can typically handle both
chip+pin and swipe with signature transactions.

R's,
John

PS: See the Light Blue Touchpaper blog at the University of Cambridge
for more than you ever imagined about how screwed up the
implementation of chip+pin is.  But it's what all the banks in Europe
use.
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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[John Levine]

>When you pay with _credit_card_ to Dutch railway ticket machines you 
>will be asked to enter PIN code ...

European credit cards have an embedded chip that does a crypto
handshake using your PIN with the bank to validate the transaction.
This process is known in English as chip+pin and is considered
equivalent to a manual signature.  There are, as far as I know, no US
banks currently issuing cards with chips, which means your US card
won't work in a ticket machine that requires a PIN, even if your card
has a PIN that works to get cash at an ATM.  For over the counter
transactions, the machine that clerks use can typically handle both
chip+pin and swipe with signature transactions.

R's,
John

PS: See the Light Blue Touchpaper blog at the University of Cambridge
for more than you ever imagined about how screwed up the
implementation of chip+pin is.  But it's what all the banks in Europe
use.
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Re: T-shirts?

[Arnt Gulbrandsen]

Simon Josefsson writes:

Mark Atwood  writes:

Their quality is not that great, and they want too big of a cut.


Is the alternative -- i.e., no t-shirt and no revenue for IETF -- better?


That would be like publishing -00 drafts that suffer from lots of 
idnits: Simply unthinktable.


Arnt
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Re: T-shirts?

[Simon Josefsson]

Mark Atwood  writes:

> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Lars Eggert  wrote:
>
>> On 2010-3-27, at 13:41, Ray Pelletier wrote:
>> > We have been working with an online vendor to allow t-shirts and other
>> > paraphernalia (coffee mugs, ball caps, etc)
>> > to be purchased.  The "rock concert" design has been a particular
>> > challenge.
>>
>> why is this harder than uploading the various artwork to cafepress.com?
>>
>>
> Their quality is not that great, and they want too big of a cut.

Is the alternative -- i.e., no t-shirt and no revenue for IETF --
better?

/Simon
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OpsDir review of draft-zimmermann-avt-zrtp-17

[Black_David]

I have performed an Operations Directorate review of
  draft-zimmermann-avt-zrtp-17

Operations directorate reviews are solicited primarily to help the area 
directors improve their efficiency, particularly when preparing for IESG 
telechats, and allowing them to focus on documents requiring their attention 
and spend less time on the trouble-free ones.  Improving the documents is 
important, but clearly a secondary purpose.  A third purpose is to broaden the 
OpsDir reviewers' exposure to work going on in other parts of the IETF.

Reviews from OpsDir members do not in and of themselves cause the IESG to raise 
issue with a document. The reviews may, however, convince individual IESG 
members to raise concern over a particular document
requiring further discussion. The reviews, particularly those conducted in last 
call and earlier, may also help the document editors improve their documents.

--

This draft specifies a proposed protocol for keying SRTP.  It is being 
published as an Informational RFC because the IETF chose a different proposal 
(draft-ietf-avt-dtls-srtp) to publish as Proposed Standard.  If this draft had 
been proposed for standards track publication, I would have characterized the 
automated system concern and the inability to backup secrets as open issues 
that merited discussion in the draft - both are tagged with [*].  As this draft 
will be published as informational, a lower standard of review may apply, and I 
leave it to the authors' judgment as to what changes should be made.

The operational aspects of the protocol are reasonably good - the protocol goes 
to a significant effort to avoid having to pre-provision and maintain 
authentication material by using an ephemeral DH exchange that is run from 
scratch on the first call between a pair of participants.  The protocol also 
adapts an SSH-like "leap of faith" model to protect subsequent interactions 
among the same parties.  By itself, an unauthenticated DH exchange can easily 
be subverted by a man-in-the-middle (MiTM) attack - the protocol defends 
against this by generating an identification of the protocol run (SAS) at each 
end that can then be compared by the participants reading the SAS to each 
other.  A successful MiTM attack will cause different SAS identifiers to be 
generated at the two call endpoints.

[*] The draft asserts that it is very difficult for an MiTM attacker to change 
the SAS on the fly in audio.  There is an obvious exception to this difficulty 
- if one of the parties on the call is an automated system, its voice response 
reading the secret is likely to have a predictable structure, and its 
vocalizations are likely to be easily recordable and/or otherwise forgeable by 
an MiTM.  This should be noted in the security considerations section after the 
paragraph on voice spoofing at the bottom of p.99, with a strong recommendation 
that credentials be provisioned at the automated system sufficient to use 
either the 7.2 signature technique or 8.1.1 integrity protection technique, and 
that those techniques always be used with pre-recorded or synthesized voice.

If the first call between two parties does not include voice confirmation of 
the SAS that instance of the protocol is MiTM-able.  The Introduction glosses 
over this by using the phrases "reasonable authentication against a MiTM 
attack" and "key continuity properties analogous to SSH".  While I believe both 
phrases are correct, the Introduction should also point out that the first call 
with no prior shared key material is MiTM-able, as is the case for SSH, as not 
every reader of this draft can be expected to be familiar with that aspect of 
SSH security.

[*] Unlike SSH, ZRTP updates the shared secret used to block MiTM attacks on 
every call.  This makes it impossible to backup and restore that secret because 
the backup becomes invalid on next use of the secret.  If a phone has to be 
hard reset (not unheard-of), it loses all of its secrets unless a backup is 
conducted immediately prior to the hard reset (not always possible as the 
failure requiring a hard reset may block backup).  This should to be pointed 
out as a counterpoint in the Security Considerations discussion of the 
requirements for protecting long-lived non-updated shared secrets, as used by 
SSH.

This ongoing shared secret update may increase the protocol's practical 
vulnerability to MiTM attacks because the participants cannot distinguish 
presence of an MiTM attacker from one party having lost its secret (or even the 
most recent update to the secret - a soft reset of the phone at exactly the 
wrong moment may cause this).  If the parties assume that the most common 
reason for setup failure is that a secret has been lost, an MiTM attacker 
inserts can mimic that by inserting herself in a call, thereby causing both 
sides to believe that the secret has been lost.  She then attacks the resulting 
initial run of the protocol - if voice confirmation of the se

Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Paul Wouters]

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:


The chipkaart costs 7,50 euros but the train trip between Schiphol and 
Maastricht is 5,85 euros cheaper with the chipkaart than with a paper ticket so 
you still come out ahead. You can get one from the ticket machines I believe 
but it probably makes more sense to buy one at the ticket counter and ask them 
to charge the card with the right amount of credit so you don't run out too 
soon or get stuck with too much left.


Using the counter will cost you 1,50 extra right? So not sure about coming out 
ahead. You will also forget
to "check out" causing your card to be drained immediately. Been there, done 
that, have the empty cards...


I'll compile detailed instructions in july.


Today there was an article about faking the cards on dutch news, but the 
article vanished. Could be
a prelude to April 1st.

Paul
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Re: T-shirts?

[Mark Atwood]

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Lars Eggert  wrote:

> On 2010-3-27, at 13:41, Ray Pelletier wrote:
> > We have been working with an online vendor to allow t-shirts and other
> > paraphernalia (coffee mugs, ball caps, etc)
> > to be purchased.  The "rock concert" design has been a particular
> > challenge.
>
> why is this harder than uploading the various artwork to cafepress.com?
>
>
Their quality is not that great, and they want too big of a cut.
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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Iljitsch van Beijnum]

On 30 mrt 2010, at 15:39, Basil Dolmatov wrote:

> "OV-chipkaart" logo is already seen on some ticket machines, so I would be 
> glad to get an advice where and how these "chipkaarts" can be bought and 
> where it can be used except for train tickets purchase.

(Plural of "chipkaart" is "chipkaarten", or use "chipcards", but please not 
"chipkaarts". In Dutch most words are pluralized with -en, some with -s.)

The OV-chipkaart (OV = openbaar vervoer = public transport, kaart = card) is 
supposed to be rolled out in the province of Limburg, of which Maastricht is 
the capital, this summer. If that happens, I will recommend anyone traveling 
through Schiphol to get one. The existing paper bus/tram tickets are not all 
that user friendly, some trips require invalidation of two strips, others 
three. With the chipcard you "check in" when you enter the bus and "check out" 
when you leave, no need to know about zone boundaries etc or master 
Dutch/Limburgs to the degree that the bus driver understands you when you tell 
him/her your stop.

The chipkaart costs 7,50 euros but the train trip between Schiphol and 
Maastricht is 5,85 euros cheaper with the chipkaart than with a paper ticket so 
you still come out ahead. You can get one from the ticket machines I believe 
but it probably makes more sense to buy one at the ticket counter and ask them 
to charge the card with the right amount of credit so you don't run out too 
soon or get stuck with too much left. You also need to specify whether you want 
to travel first or second class before you can use it in the train.

I'll compile detailed instructions in july.
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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Joe Abley]

On 2010-03-30, at 09:49, Theodore Tso wrote:

> I'd recommend telling your bank and your credit card issuers that you are 
> planning on traveling to The Netherlands at least a week or two in advance.

I'd recommend that someone creates the 78-attendees list right now, so that all 
this list traffic can migrate there.


Joe

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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Jaap Akkerhuis]

"OV-chipkaart" logo is already seen on some ticket machines, so I would 
be glad to get an advice where and how these "chipkaarts" can be bought 
and where it can be used except for train tickets purchase.

Have a look at . Maybe the
iet...@sidn.nl can add a link on the ietf78 site to this.

jaap
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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Theodore Tso]

I'd recommend telling your bank and your credit card issuers that you are 
planning on traveling to The Netherlands at least a week or two in advance.   
My ATM card and two of my credit cards had a policy last year of declining all 
charges from that country due to large amounts of ATM/credit card fraud several 
years ago.   Of course, I only found that out after the conference closed and I 
had absolutely no way of purchasing a train ticket back to Amsterdam  I 
ended having to walk for a mile or two to find a post office to change US 
Dollars to Euros, since the only credit card that I had that worked in The 
Netherlands was my American Express card, and (a) I didn't know its pin number, 
and (b) it was accepted at the train station.   (And when I called my bank to 
get my ATM card authorized for The Netherlands, they told me it would take 
24-36 hours, and I wasn't going to be in the country that long.   Very 
Frustrating.)

My fault for not having a secondary backup of traveling with a hundred dollars 
of Euro bills, of course, which is now my standard policy.  I had gotten 
spoiled with having my ATM card work everywhere..

-- Ted

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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Andrew Sullivan]

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:37:17AM +, Michael Dillon wrote:
> Not sure if this applies to Americans, but when I lived in Canada, I
> had a 5 or 6 digit pin
> code

I don't know about other banks, but I used to have a 6 digit PIN with
the Royal Bank of Canada.  They made me change it a couple years ago,
I think because the chip-and-pin system was on its way.  So at least
RBC won't let you create PINs longer than 4 digits any more.

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
a...@shinkuro.com
Shinkuro, Inc.
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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Basil Dolmatov]

Ole Jacobsen пишет:
The PIN codes issued by US banks are for cash advances only, they are 
NOT the "required" PIN code that European credit cards use and won't
work if you try to use them for a regular credit card payment. US 
cards do not (in general) require a PIN code for credit card payments.


When you pay with _credit_card_ to Dutch railway ticket machines you 
will be asked to enter PIN code (I always do so, when I am in 
Amsterdam). In that aspect these machines are working like ATMs. This is 
a Netherlands specific, I have never seen such ticket machine behavior 
in other countries.


Btw, if you use credit card, you will be surcharged E0,50 per ticket.


"OV-chipkaart" logo is already seen on some ticket machines, so I would 
be glad to get an advice where and how these "chipkaarts" can be bought 
and where it can be used except for train tickets purchase.


TIA,

dol@

Ole


Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher,  The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972   Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: o...@cisco.com  URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj



On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Robert Kisteleki wrote:


On 2010.03.30. 11:41, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:

I'll prepare information about all of this as soon as I know the
transition status during the IETF week. And in any event, there are no
early booking / online booking discounts for Dutch train tickets, and
buying online with Dutch Railways requires the iDEAL payment system that
only Dutch banks use.

That reminds me: if you intend to use a credit card in electronic contexts
(such as buying train tickets at a machine, etc.), you should make sure you
know your PIN code. On the way home from Anaheim I helped some guy who had
some problems because he wasn't even aware that his card had a PIN code.

Robert

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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Ole Jacobsen]

Again, for US cards, these PIN codes apply to either ATM cards or for 
credit card cash advances (using your credit card as an [expensive] 
ATM card).

Ole

Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher,  The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972   Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: o...@cisco.com  URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj



On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Michael Dillon wrote:

> > That reminds me: if you intend to use a credit card in electronic contexts
> > (such as buying train tickets at a machine, etc.), you should make sure you
> > know your PIN code. On the way home from Anaheim I helped some guy who had
> > some problems because he wasn't even aware that his card had a PIN code.
> 
> Not sure if this applies to Americans, but when I lived in Canada, I
> had a 5 or 6 digit pin
> code, but internationally, pin codes are only 4 digits. If you have a
> longer pin code,
> change it to a 4 digit one before travelling.
> 
> --Michael Dillon
> 
> 2 years ago I was back in Canada, visiting, and in a small restaurant,
> I noticed the familiar
> chip and pin reader. When I remarked on it, they said it was a new
> system that was coming
> in but even the bank didn't know how it worked yet. I said, let me
> show you and paid for
> the meal with my UK chip and pin card.
> ___
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> Ietf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
> 
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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Ole Jacobsen]

The PIN codes issued by US banks are for cash advances only, they are 
NOT the "required" PIN code that European credit cards use and won't
work if you try to use them for a regular credit card payment. US 
cards do not (in general) require a PIN code for credit card payments.

Ole


Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher,  The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972   Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: o...@cisco.com  URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj



On Tue, 30 Mar 2010, Robert Kisteleki wrote:

> On 2010.03.30. 11:41, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:
> > I'll prepare information about all of this as soon as I know the
> > transition status during the IETF week. And in any event, there are no
> > early booking / online booking discounts for Dutch train tickets, and
> > buying online with Dutch Railways requires the iDEAL payment system that
> > only Dutch banks use.
> 
> That reminds me: if you intend to use a credit card in electronic contexts
> (such as buying train tickets at a machine, etc.), you should make sure you
> know your PIN code. On the way home from Anaheim I helped some guy who had
> some problems because he wasn't even aware that his card had a PIN code.
> 
> Robert
> 
> ___
> Ietf mailing list
> Ietf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
> 
> 
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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Michael Dillon]

> That reminds me: if you intend to use a credit card in electronic contexts
> (such as buying train tickets at a machine, etc.), you should make sure you
> know your PIN code. On the way home from Anaheim I helped some guy who had
> some problems because he wasn't even aware that his card had a PIN code.

Not sure if this applies to Americans, but when I lived in Canada, I
had a 5 or 6 digit pin
code, but internationally, pin codes are only 4 digits. If you have a
longer pin code,
change it to a 4 digit one before travelling.

--Michael Dillon

2 years ago I was back in Canada, visiting, and in a small restaurant,
I noticed the familiar
chip and pin reader. When I remarked on it, they said it was a new
system that was coming
in but even the bank didn't know how it worked yet. I said, let me
show you and paid for
the meal with my UK chip and pin card.
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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Robert Kisteleki]

On 2010.03.30. 11:41, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote:

I'll prepare information about all of this as soon as I know the
transition status during the IETF week. And in any event, there are no
early booking / online booking discounts for Dutch train tickets, and
buying online with Dutch Railways requires the iDEAL payment system that
only Dutch banks use.


That reminds me: if you intend to use a credit card in electronic contexts 
(such as buying train tickets at a machine, etc.), you should make sure you 
know your PIN code. On the way home from Anaheim I helped some guy who had 
some problems because he wasn't even aware that his card had a PIN code.


Robert

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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Iljitsch van Beijnum]

On 30 mrt 2010, at 10:15, Marco Davids (Prive) wrote:

> http://www.ietf78.nl/.

Ok, one thing: I strongly recommend AGAINST purchasing any _Dutch_ train 
tickets before you travel. (This does not apply to international train tickets!)

The Nethelands is currently making a transition from paper tickets to RFID card 
based payment ("OV-chipkaart", similar to the London oyster card) for all forms 
of public transport. Depending on how this proceeds the coming months it may be 
both cheaper and more convenient to get one of those RFID cards to pay for your 
train journey as well as the bus in Maastricht and public transport elsewhere 
in the Netherlands, especially Rotterdam (all forms of public transport) and 
Amsterdam (the metro) where paper tickets are no longer valid.

I'll prepare information about all of this as soon as I know the transition 
status during the IETF week. And in any event, there are no early booking / 
online booking discounts for Dutch train tickets, and buying online with Dutch 
Railways requires the iDEAL payment system that only Dutch banks use.
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Re: Advance travel info for IETF-78 Maastricht

[Marco Davids (Prive)]

Dear folks,

Please be advised that a special IETF 78 host website is available that
already contains quite some information and practicalities:

http://www.ietf78.nl/.

More information will be added as it becomes available.

If you are missing specific things, or have any other concerns, please
do not hesitate to contact the IETF78 webmaster at iet...@sidn.nl. I am
sure the people of SIDN will be more than glad to provide you with an
answer and put it on the website as well if the information is of general
interest.

Oh, and there is also a Twitter channel: http://twitter.com/ietf78, in
case you might be interested. :-)

Regards,

--
Marco Davids




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Re: T-shirts?

[Paul Ferguson]

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Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 11:55 PM, Fred Baker  wrote:

> personally, I think that should be in the weave, not the print...
>
> On Mar 27, 2010, at 8:21 AM, Christian Huitema wrote:
>
>> Can we make sure that the shirts are ASCII only?
>
> http://www.ipinc.net/IPv4.GIF
>

Hmmm... movie alert:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493464/

List of assassination targets coded in a weave.. from a mystical loom.

Yes, I know... :-)

- - ferg

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-- 
"Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson
 Engineering Architecture for the Internet
 fergdawgster(at)gmail.com
 ferg's tech blog: http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/
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Re: T-shirts?

[Ole Jacobsen]

That seems appropriate given that computers trace their history back 
to the Jacquard Loom:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquard_loom

Ole


Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher,  The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972   Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: o...@cisco.com  URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj



On Mon, 29 Mar 2010, Fred Baker wrote:

> personally, I think that should be in the weave, not the print...
> 
> On Mar 27, 2010, at 8:21 AM, Christian Huitema wrote:
> 
> > Can we make sure that the shirts are ASCII only?
> 
> http://www.ipinc.net/IPv4.GIF
> 
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